EPTAnd even if you wanted to make a rule like this, what would it be? A player who lies for his own profit gets disqualified? How is that ever going to be a fair rule? Maybe Slush really thought he had a chance left, the 1% chance that he needed to have for a regame is pretty easy to imagine in pretty much every position.
Responsibility - Page 2
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
And even if you wanted to make a rule like this, what would it be? A player who lies for his own profit gets disqualified? How is that ever going to be a fair rule? Maybe Slush really thought he had a chance left, the 1% chance that he needed to have for a regame is pretty easy to imagine in pretty much every position. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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SirNeb
United States243 Posts
Good sportsmanship is merely a blessing but when the stake is high, people will only selfishly care about themselves. Chill is right that the people running the show needs to make the best decision and players have to accept the call whether the admins is factually correct or not. Besides, no matter how 100% win for Artosis, he was ultimately the person who disconnected. If there is any doubt that Slush can come back, which we can obviously see that the admin had thought there was a slim chance, then that's that. If it's subjective, then it means it's not 100%. If on the other hand, the official who made the call made a mistake due to misunderstanding the policy, then that's a totally different issue. Actually, I don't even agree with Nazgul making that post honestly, he should stick with the decision of his staff. Oh well, good thing this is just a game, a jury convicting someone of a crime. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:41 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: ![[image loading]](http://theblackcordelias.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hari-kari.jpg) or ![[image loading]](http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/11/97/86/400_F_11978687_kcnGurV1G7nKkWEH4mqW6ZMGeuMZJbtu.jpg) think you might be stretching your expectations out a bit too far here. this is a surprisingly eloquent argument | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/749/slushartosis.png) Pretty much my feelings | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:43 Koltz wrote: I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified. So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone. | ||
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Radical
United States481 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:15 Chill wrote: So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone. I think a better analogy would be that when you do something wrong you should do your best to make it right. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Radical
United States481 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:17 Chill wrote: And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree. Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
But whatever damage he did to his reputation is another story entirely | ||
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:19 Radical wrote: Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated. It's not your job to call your own results, that's why referees exist. It's nice if you give your opponent another chance but I don't think it's expected. Calling him a cheater is ridiculous. | ||
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Terranlisk
Singapore1404 Posts
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:41 MyHeroNoob wrote: What happened? I don't follow tourneys. Tl;DR Artosis was in game 3 of a BO3 in the TLI with slush. Artosis had the game in the bag, no hope of slush winning, then he discs because of known computer problems. He demanded a win, because the game was over, he was just waiting for slush to leave. A regame occurred which pissed him off, and slush went on to win the regame...and the whole tournament. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote: Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands. If a player still thinks he has even the slightest of chances, it's his right to leave it to the judges to decide. That's why you have judges in the first place. He was excercising that right. We chatted immediately after the game - It's very possible he genuinely thought he still had stake in the game. Maybe not. Either way, he expressed his belief and left it to us. And TBH, when we had decided to do a regame... if I'm Slush, seeing the way Artosis acted towards him during this whole thing, I would not have offered to concede defeat either. Maybe that's dishonorable there, but Artosis threw the gloves off first.  | ||
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Kage
India788 Posts
Slush broke no rule. Never voiced saying, " I WON THE GAME ARTOSIS STFU" or display bad manner (if he did then you have a valid point). He's also another player and human being. I agree it must really suck for Artosis and he has every right to kill the admin but NOT slush. If you have a fair chance to stay in the tournament why would you give that up. Why is no one saying anything about the regame? He did counter his build so well and go on to win the tournament without being bad manner. Saying he should be a man and judging him in such a derogatory manner is low. And to quote ETB On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote: Slush did not manipulate a damn thing. Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands. That's the second part where you're incorrect - I did not award a regame by myself. In fact, seeking to be as objective as possible, we quickly uploaded the replay and had several veteran/staff members review the replay (all the while, Slush is waiting quietly, not 'manipulating us' into giving him a regame). We came to a group consensus that a regame was the best option. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame. Rather contradictory. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On May 09 2010 19:29 Southlight wrote: It seems funny to me, because when there was a power outage in the MSL, Flash believed he had a chance, and yet was not given a regame because the refs believed Jaedong was in enough of a lead. TL went through great lengths to defend the refs' decision to award the game to Jaedong. Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame. Rather contradictory. Not taking sides, just stating these facts as objectively as possible: 1) It was not JD's fault that the power went out; but it was Artosis's fault that he disconnected (be it his computer, or Internet) + Show Spoiler [imo] + That game was much closer than today's match. 2) More importantly, this just shows that there is not a 'right' decision. Regardless of the action, there will always be people arguing for the opposite. I feel that the TL mods have done a wonderful job throughout the entire tournament; and it was very responsible and mature of them to issue the apology. | ||
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
that's the cool thing about rules, you can be all the ass you want, as long as you're not win trading or shit like in TSL nobody can harm you. you can't revoke his money now. it was a (rare) mistake by the tl administration, they apologized for it and unfortunately artosis is the victim in this case - but "shit happens". slush never left the sphere of what's "legal" as a behavior in a tournament. | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
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