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Blogs > Rekrul
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Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
May 09 2010 04:03 GMT
#21
We can all agree he's a douche but you can't run tournaments with the mindset of just inventing and enforcing whatever rules you think are appropriate in the middle of the tournament. The rules should be clear beforehand so the stage is set for the players to play without interruptions and subjective admin decisions.

And even if you wanted to make a rule like this, what would it be? A player who lies for his own profit gets disqualified? How is that ever going to be a fair rule? Maybe Slush really thought he had a chance left, the 1% chance that he needed to have for a regame is pretty easy to imagine in pretty much every position.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 09 2010 04:03 GMT
#22
Sounds like a situation where if Slush forfeited he would've been deserving of praise, but if he acted in his self interest no one can really blame him.
SirNeb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States243 Posts
May 09 2010 04:03 GMT
#23
Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports. In a pro basketball game, a close call happens when a ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure 90% of the time the players involved know clearly who touched the ball last.. But most of the time, the players will almost always point to the direction that benefits themselves or their team. It is always up to the officials to make the final call, whether right or wrong.

Good sportsmanship is merely a blessing but when the stake is high, people will only selfishly care about themselves. Chill is right that the people running the show needs to make the best decision and players have to accept the call whether the admins is factually correct or not. Besides, no matter how 100% win for Artosis, he was ultimately the person who disconnected. If there is any doubt that Slush can come back, which we can obviously see that the admin had thought there was a slim chance, then that's that. If it's subjective, then it means it's not 100%. If on the other hand, the official who made the call made a mistake due to misunderstanding the policy, then that's a totally different issue. Actually, I don't even agree with Nazgul making that post honestly, he should stick with the decision of his staff. Oh well, good thing this is just a game, a jury convicting someone of a crime.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 09 2010 04:10 GMT
#24
On May 09 2010 12:41 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
[image loading]

or

[image loading]

think you might be stretching your expectations out a bit too far here.


this is a surprisingly eloquent argument
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
May 09 2010 04:14 GMT
#25
[image loading]

Pretty much my feelings
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
May 09 2010 04:15 GMT
#26
On May 09 2010 12:43 Koltz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him.


I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified.

So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone.
Moderator
Radical
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States481 Posts
May 09 2010 04:16 GMT
#27
On May 09 2010 13:15 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 12:43 Koltz wrote:
On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him.


I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified.

So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone.


I think a better analogy would be that when you do something wrong you should do your best to make it right.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
May 09 2010 04:17 GMT
#28
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree.
Moderator
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
May 09 2010 04:19 GMT
#29
Yeah, too bad being a prick isn't doing anything wrong.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Radical
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 04:20:32
May 09 2010 04:19 GMT
#30
On May 09 2010 13:17 Chill wrote:
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree.

Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
May 09 2010 04:34 GMT
#31
I don't think he did anything outside the rules of the tournament so he shouldn't be punished.

But whatever damage he did to his reputation is another story entirely
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
May 09 2010 04:39 GMT
#32
On May 09 2010 13:19 Radical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 13:17 Chill wrote:
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree.

Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated.

It's not your job to call your own results, that's why referees exist. It's nice if you give your opponent another chance but I don't think it's expected. Calling him a cheater is ridiculous.
Moderator
Terranlisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Singapore1404 Posts
May 09 2010 04:41 GMT
#33
What happened? I don't follow tourneys.
aka myheronoob
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 05:02:53
May 09 2010 05:02 GMT
#34
On May 09 2010 13:41 MyHeroNoob wrote:
What happened? I don't follow tourneys.


Tl;DR

Artosis was in game 3 of a BO3 in the TLI with slush. Artosis had the game in the bag, no hope of slush winning, then he discs because of known computer problems. He demanded a win, because the game was over, he was just waiting for slush to leave. A regame occurred which pissed him off, and slush went on to win the regame...and the whole tournament.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
May 09 2010 05:41 GMT
#35
From another thread:

On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands.


If a player still thinks he has even the slightest of chances, it's his right to leave it to the judges to decide. That's why you have judges in the first place. He was excercising that right. We chatted immediately after the game - It's very possible he genuinely thought he still had stake in the game. Maybe not. Either way, he expressed his belief and left it to us.

And TBH, when we had decided to do a regame... if I'm Slush, seeing the way Artosis acted towards him during this whole thing, I would not have offered to concede defeat either. Maybe that's dishonorable there, but Artosis threw the gloves off first.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Kage
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
India788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 10:29:17
May 09 2010 09:21 GMT
#36
Sorry this is wrong. There is no one to blame here but the TL Admins.

Slush broke no rule. Never voiced saying, " I WON THE GAME ARTOSIS STFU" or display bad manner (if he did then you have a valid point). He's also another player and human being.

I agree it must really suck for Artosis and he has every right to kill the admin but NOT slush. If you have a fair chance to stay in the tournament why would you give that up.

Why is no one saying anything about the regame? He did counter his build so well and go on to win the tournament without being bad manner. Saying he should be a man and judging him in such a derogatory manner is low.

And to quote ETB
On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote:

Slush did not manipulate a damn thing. Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands.

That's the second part where you're incorrect - I did not award a regame by myself. In fact, seeking to be as objective as possible, we quickly uploaded the replay and had several veteran/staff members review the replay (all the while, Slush is waiting quietly, not 'manipulating us' into giving him a regame). We came to a group consensus that a regame was the best option.


Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11766 Posts
May 09 2010 10:29 GMT
#37
It seems funny to me, because when there was a power outage in the MSL, Flash believed he had a chance, and yet was not given a regame because the refs believed Jaedong was in enough of a lead. TL went through great lengths to defend the refs' decision to award the game to Jaedong.

Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame.

Rather contradictory.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 11:40:56
May 09 2010 11:37 GMT
#38
On May 09 2010 19:29 Southlight wrote:
It seems funny to me, because when there was a power outage in the MSL, Flash believed he had a chance, and yet was not given a regame because the refs believed Jaedong was in enough of a lead. TL went through great lengths to defend the refs' decision to award the game to Jaedong.

Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame.

Rather contradictory.


Not taking sides, just stating these facts as objectively as possible:

1) It was not JD's fault that the power went out; but it was Artosis's fault that he disconnected (be it his computer, or Internet)

+ Show Spoiler [imo] +

That game was much closer than today's match.


2) More importantly, this just shows that there is not a 'right' decision. Regardless of the action, there will always be people arguing for the opposite. I feel that the TL mods have done a wonderful job throughout the entire tournament; and it was very responsible and mature of them to issue the apology.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Ghardo
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Germany1685 Posts
May 09 2010 11:51 GMT
#39
i'm on chill's / zephyr's side with this one. it really is expected too much that he would "turn himself in" in a money tourney where he gets another shot at advancing.
that's the cool thing about rules, you can be all the ass you want, as long as you're not win trading or shit like in TSL nobody can harm you.

you can't revoke his money now. it was a (rare) mistake by the tl administration, they apologized for it and unfortunately artosis is the victim in this case - but "shit happens". slush never left the sphere of what's "legal" as a behavior in a tournament.
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
May 09 2010 11:54 GMT
#40
I completely agree. Didn't see this before i posted in the main thread, could have just referred to this post as it mirrors my opinion on the matter.
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