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Korea (South)17174 Posts
My initial reaction to this whole Slush vs Artosis debacle was to be like:
"Errrm well Artosis is the idiot that disced and he is a trash newbie anyways so he must have defied all odds and gotten lucky to win anyways. Kid has nothing better to do all day anyways than play SC2 so u may as well let him fill another 30 minutes of his pathetic life with a re-game."
I then watched the replay and even though I barely play/watch SC2 it was blatantly obvious to me that it was an 100% win for artosis. Though, that isn't the issue here, because we all know this to be true as does the TL.net staff as evidence from Nazgul's latest post.
Though TL.net has done good job with it's apology and it's ability to learn from it's mistakes in this venture, they are forgetting one critical thing which they seemed to have made a precident for last year by banning/temp banning all the players that abused in TSL from events/future events. They forgot about the standard they have been (correctly) trying to impose on the gaming community:
Holding players accountable for all their actions (or in this case, inaction). Slush is not being held accountable.
What Slush did is epitome of selfishness and lack of sportsmanship. Obviously he's pretty good to have won the thing, so obviously he was well aware how dead he was even without watching the replay. To act like he still had a chance to win and then refusing to watch the replay and basically saying stuff to Artosis that essentially meant: "Fuck you man even though you won fair and square I'm going to fuck you over by means of a loophole in the system."
This is something that you wouldn't see happening at a live event. Malicious behavior from one competitor to another. Because there are repricussions for your actions in those scenarios. It's really pathetic to have seen some faggot like Slush abuse the fact that he's hiding behind his computer screen and just ignore reality and skip by thanks to a moderator error. If that was happening in real life I guarantee you artosis's non-existant muscles made of grass would have suddenly looked like the incredible hulk and he would have certainly got that win.
As a sportsmanlike competitor in an event like this it MUST be your duty act in a fair manner and know when to accept a loss. If Slush was a real man he WOULD have watched that rep, he WOULD have realized he was 100% dead, and he WOULD have said "okay you had it, gg wp GL!" Not doing this is an ultimate slap in the face to not only all the other competitors, but also the administration and the fans.
Not that we can really expect broke nerds competing for a few hundred dollars to act sportsmanlike. All they care about is the 1st place and it's prize money. But what we can do is hold them accountable for their pathetic actions. Just because TL.net made a mistake that wasn't corrected until the player in violation (Slush) happened to win the event doesn't mean it's too late for him to be punished for his actions.
How do we do this? We revoke his prize money and move everyone up one slot in the payout, and make said player in violation of morality publically apologize and post that they've learned from their actions until further being allowed to compete again.
TL.net I know you guys probably won't do this. But if you did, it would establish a good precident and certainly would be the right thing to do. Anyways, whatever you guys choose to do, I know you know I'm right. 
 
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Agreed , thats pretty fuckin trash manner by Slush
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Mofo's will do anything to get to the top.
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it also seemed unfair to me.
i mean sure it was artosis' fault for disconnecting, but it's not like he had any control over that. also, if he's in korea, it was like 5am for him, i can see why he wouldn't want to waste time playing a regame of a game that he was apparently almost sure to win. it's a shame for artosis, but referees don't always make the right calls. nevertheless, tl admins have been pretty fair with their judgments though so it wouldn't be wrong for the community to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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The prize pool wasnt even that big; don't know why anyone would ruin your entire reputation over such a little prize pool. It wasn't even a first place game, there was no 'real' money involved in this game lol.
Who cares, half these players will die out within a year when true strats and mechanics come out, and proper builds are realized. Slush? He's pretty good, but who knows if we'll even remember that name besides from this one tournament, and that ridiculous act of non sportsmanship.
Slush didn't come from BW did he? Stupid question; if he did his etiquette would have been WAY better and moral. 90% of the players I play on bnet don't gg, don't say anything, no GL, no HF, and whine when they lose and even win. On iCCup frustration happened, but never to this degree.
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Yeah Slush doesn't exactly have good pr right now 
I really liked Nazgul's post though and it would be extreme to call out the tourney winner on this. This beta is useful for creating precedents and establishing a practice in SC2 tournaments though.
I think it would be unfair to reprimand Slush so harshly AFTER the fact.
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Yeah we just have to take this as another lesson and move on, taking away prize money is unfair and extreme in itself.
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I think slush is being punished enough right now with the knowledge that the majority of the people who watched that match thinks he's a dick sucker now.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:32 Megalisk wrote:
Yeah we just have to take this as another lesson and move on, taking away prize money is unfair and extreme in itself.
Whats funny about your statement here is that you wouldn't be saying that if Slush was found out to have map hacked in none of the games in the tournament except in a game vs Artosis. You'd be like "burn him!!!" Map hack or selfishly getting a win, both are equally illegitimate and people need to realize this.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:35 Radical wrote:
I think slush is being punished enough right now with the knowledge that the majority of the people who watched that match thinks he's a dick sucker now.
Yeah so everything thinks his actions are "dick sucker"ish and thinks he's wrong but he still deserves the prize money? Does not compute. Grow some balls people.
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Calgary25969 Posts
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him.
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On May 09 2010 12:35 Radical wrote:
I think slush is being punished enough right now with the knowledge that the majority of the people who watched that match thinks he's a dick sucker now.
It's pretty obvious from the way Slush acted all he cares about is the money and not respect or honor. Taking the $300 actually sends a message.
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On May 09 2010 12:38 Rekrul wrote:
Yeah so everything thinks his actions are "dick sucker"ish and thinks he's wrong but he still deserves the prize money? Does not compute. Grow some balls people.
On May 09 2010 12:38 Seiuchi wrote:
It's pretty obvious from the way Slush acted all he cares about is the money and not respect or honor. Taking the $300 actually sends a message.
Valid points...I guess in my view the prize money is kind of inconsequential. What's far more important to me is the fact that slush ended up winning the tournament, which is something that can't really be taken away. To me, winning a tournament like that is a lot better than simply getting the cash prize, so I didn't really think about the cash. But you're both right, the $300 should be taken away. And I guess if he cares about $300 so much that he'd tarnish his reputation to get it, then it would probably mean a lot to him if it got taken away.
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On May 09 2010 12:38 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 12:35 Radical wrote:
I think slush is being punished enough right now with the knowledge that the majority of the people who watched that match thinks he's a dick sucker now. It's pretty obvious from the way Slush acted all he cares about is the money and not respect or honor. Taking the $300 actually sends a message.
$300 or respect? Either way, slush is already in the clear, i doubt he gives a shit if people think hes a dick. He won, and no one can deny that.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him.
I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified.
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On May 09 2010 12:38 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 12:35 Radical wrote:
I think slush is being punished enough right now with the knowledge that the majority of the people who watched that match thinks he's a dick sucker now. It's pretty obvious from the way Slush acted all he cares about is the money and not respect or honor. Taking the $300 actually sends a message.
Money makes people do crazy things. The entire incident was a mistake but because of it there's not much to be done. Slush will lose respect of most of TL, which apparently is worth less then $300.
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Agreed.
This whole thing really makes me appreciate and admire the behavior of Nony in TSL when he disconnected and then conceded the game without making a fuss or demanding a regame. If only all people had that level of sportsmanship.  Fuck you, Slush!
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We can all agree he's a douche but you can't run tournaments with the mindset of just inventing and enforcing whatever rules you think are appropriate in the middle of the tournament. The rules should be clear beforehand so the stage is set for the players to play without interruptions and subjective admin decisions.
And even if you wanted to make a rule like this, what would it be? A player who lies for his own profit gets disqualified? How is that ever going to be a fair rule? Maybe Slush really thought he had a chance left, the 1% chance that he needed to have for a regame is pretty easy to imagine in pretty much every position.
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Sounds like a situation where if Slush forfeited he would've been deserving of praise, but if he acted in his self interest no one can really blame him.
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Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports. In a pro basketball game, a close call happens when a ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure 90% of the time the players involved know clearly who touched the ball last.. But most of the time, the players will almost always point to the direction that benefits themselves or their team. It is always up to the officials to make the final call, whether right or wrong.
Good sportsmanship is merely a blessing but when the stake is high, people will only selfishly care about themselves. Chill is right that the people running the show needs to make the best decision and players have to accept the call whether the admins is factually correct or not. Besides, no matter how 100% win for Artosis, he was ultimately the person who disconnected. If there is any doubt that Slush can come back, which we can obviously see that the admin had thought there was a slim chance, then that's that. If it's subjective, then it means it's not 100%. If on the other hand, the official who made the call made a mistake due to misunderstanding the policy, then that's a totally different issue. Actually, I don't even agree with Nazgul making that post honestly, he should stick with the decision of his staff. Oh well, good thing this is just a game, a jury convicting someone of a crime.
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On May 09 2010 12:41 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:![[image loading]](http://theblackcordelias.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hari-kari.jpg) or ![[image loading]](http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/11/97/86/400_F_11978687_kcnGurV1G7nKkWEH4mqW6ZMGeuMZJbtu.jpg) think you might be stretching your expectations out a bit too far here.
this is a surprisingly eloquent argument
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![[image loading]](http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/749/slushartosis.png)
Pretty much my feelings
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Calgary25969 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:43 Koltz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him. I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified.
So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone.
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On May 09 2010 13:15 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 12:43 Koltz wrote:On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him. I respectfully disagree, there should be some inherent responsibility for each player, it should be part of etiquette. I agree etiquette doesn't HAVE to be followed, for example look at Idra, but that's their choice, and any repercussions is fully on them, hence why any 'malice' towards them is, in my opinion, justified. So I'm sure when you do anything wrong you immediately report it to the police? There's a grey zone.
I think a better analogy would be that when you do something wrong you should do your best to make it right.
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Calgary25969 Posts
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree.
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Yeah, too bad being a prick isn't doing anything wrong.
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On May 09 2010 13:17 Chill wrote:
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree.
Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated.
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I don't think he did anything outside the rules of the tournament so he shouldn't be punished.
But whatever damage he did to his reputation is another story entirely
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Calgary25969 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:19 Radical wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 13:17 Chill wrote:
And my argument is he didn't do anything wrong so we agree. Well I'm not saying I don't think he did anything wrong...He pretty much cheated.
It's not your job to call your own results, that's why referees exist. It's nice if you give your opponent another chance but I don't think it's expected. Calling him a cheater is ridiculous.
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What happened? I don't follow tourneys.
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On May 09 2010 13:41 MyHeroNoob wrote:
What happened? I don't follow tourneys.
Tl;DR
Artosis was in game 3 of a BO3 in the TLI with slush. Artosis had the game in the bag, no hope of slush winning, then he discs because of known computer problems. He demanded a win, because the game was over, he was just waiting for slush to leave. A regame occurred which pissed him off, and slush went on to win the regame...and the whole tournament.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
From another thread:
On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands.
If a player still thinks he has even the slightest of chances, it's his right to leave it to the judges to decide. That's why you have judges in the first place. He was excercising that right. We chatted immediately after the game - It's very possible he genuinely thought he still had stake in the game. Maybe not. Either way, he expressed his belief and left it to us.
And TBH, when we had decided to do a regame... if I'm Slush, seeing the way Artosis acted towards him during this whole thing, I would not have offered to concede defeat either. Maybe that's dishonorable there, but Artosis threw the gloves off first.
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Sorry this is wrong. There is no one to blame here but the TL Admins.
Slush broke no rule. Never voiced saying, " I WON THE GAME ARTOSIS STFU" or display bad manner (if he did then you have a valid point). He's also another player and human being.
I agree it must really suck for Artosis and he has every right to kill the admin but NOT slush. If you have a fair chance to stay in the tournament why would you give that up.
Why is no one saying anything about the regame? He did counter his build so well and go on to win the tournament without being bad manner. Saying he should be a man and judging him in such a derogatory manner is low.
And to quote ETB
On May 09 2010 13:49 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Slush did not manipulate a damn thing. Immediately after Artosis dropped, I talked to Slush. I simply needed to find out if he wished to concede (ie, feeling like he didn't have a chance), or wanted to put it in our hands. He felt at the time (obviously biased and without perfect information) that he still had a shot. He had units, and he had some minerals. At that point, it was in our hands.
That's the second part where you're incorrect - I did not award a regame by myself. In fact, seeking to be as objective as possible, we quickly uploaded the replay and had several veteran/staff members review the replay (all the while, Slush is waiting quietly, not 'manipulating us' into giving him a regame). We came to a group consensus that a regame was the best option.
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It seems funny to me, because when there was a power outage in the MSL, Flash believed he had a chance, and yet was not given a regame because the refs believed Jaedong was in enough of a lead. TL went through great lengths to defend the refs' decision to award the game to Jaedong.
Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame.
Rather contradictory.
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On May 09 2010 19:29 Southlight wrote:
It seems funny to me, because when there was a power outage in the MSL, Flash believed he had a chance, and yet was not given a regame because the refs believed Jaedong was in enough of a lead. TL went through great lengths to defend the refs' decision to award the game to Jaedong.
Yet when TL was posed with a similar - yet to many people even more one-sided - situation, they opted to reward the regame.
Rather contradictory.
Not taking sides, just stating these facts as objectively as possible:
1) It was not JD's fault that the power went out; but it was Artosis's fault that he disconnected (be it his computer, or Internet)
+ Show Spoiler [imo] +
That game was much closer than today's match.
2) More importantly, this just shows that there is not a 'right' decision. Regardless of the action, there will always be people arguing for the opposite. I feel that the TL mods have done a wonderful job throughout the entire tournament; and it was very responsible and mature of them to issue the apology.
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i'm on chill's / zephyr's side with this one. it really is expected too much that he would "turn himself in" in a money tourney where he gets another shot at advancing.
that's the cool thing about rules, you can be all the ass you want, as long as you're not win trading or shit like in TSL nobody can harm you.
you can't revoke his money now. it was a (rare) mistake by the tl administration, they apologized for it and unfortunately artosis is the victim in this case - but "shit happens". slush never left the sphere of what's "legal" as a behavior in a tournament.
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I completely agree. Didn't see this before i posted in the main thread, could have just referred to this post as it mirrors my opinion on the matter.
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So what happened in the end? Did Artosis get some sort of compensation or did slush move on with the money?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Don't worry Artosis, shrug it off.
They are only trying to hold people like us down because of fear and envy. We will prevail.
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United States33155 Posts
I should just close all your posts until you have something useful to say about the match fixing scandal
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On May 09 2010 12:48 Holgerius wrote:Agreed. This whole thing really makes me appreciate and admire the behavior of Nony in TSL when he disconnected and then conceded the game without making a fuss or demanding a regame. If only all people had that level of sportsmanship. Fuck you, Slush!
This man speaks the truth! Well, him and Rekrul.
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I suppose it is possible that Slush honestly thought he had a chance to win and that he felt Artosis whining was just that, Artosis whining. I wouldn't necessarily bother to watch the replay in such situation myself and I would even sleep well at night knowing that I left the decision to admins.
Now, is that true, I don't know, but I wouldn't declare Slush a piece of trash so easily.
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This "responbility" thread reminds me of a pro game between firefist vs. backho in which backho gg'ed thinking that his opponent had gg'ed (backho was considerably ahead). Firefist could have just said, "Fuck You, im going to advance" but he was sportsmanlike and admitted defeat even if he didn't need to. The stakes in this game weren't nearly as close as advancing in the OSL but the situation is remotely similar. Slush should have been the better man.
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On May 09 2010 13:03 SirNeb wrote:
Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports. In a pro basketball game, a close call happens when a ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure 90% of the time the players involved know clearly who touched the ball last.. But most of the time, the players will almost always point to the direction that benefits themselves or their team. It is always up to the officials to make the final call, whether right or wrong.
Good sportsmanship is merely a blessing but when the stake is high, people will only selfishly care about themselves. Chill is right that the people running the show needs to make the best decision and players have to accept the call whether the admins is factually correct or not. Besides, no matter how 100% win for Artosis, he was ultimately the person who disconnected. If there is any doubt that Slush can come back, which we can obviously see that the admin had thought there was a slim chance, then that's that. If it's subjective, then it means it's not 100%. If on the other hand, the official who made the call made a mistake due to misunderstanding the policy, then that's a totally different issue. Actually, I don't even agree with Nazgul making that post honestly, he should stick with the decision of his staff. Oh well, good thing this is just a game, a jury convicting someone of a crime.
So Nazgul should have stick with the decision of his staff even though it is wrong? Edmund Burke said the only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good man to do nothing and certainly Nazgul has proven himself a good man by correcting the mistake made by his staff.
Manner is certainly not overrated. In team sports you do see the scenario you described happen a lot but they happen because the players' decision affect their teammates, coach staff and a lot of people so they let the officials make the call. However in individual sports where players are only responsible for themselves such as tennis you would a lot of players give their opponents point if the line judge made a mistake of calling a shot out.
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I don't understand why Slush is being made the bad guy?
Shit happens when you leave things up to judges and this is just another example. It's like saying in a playoff baseball game where the runner is somehow tagged but the ump says he's safe. Is he going to really tell the ump 'hey sorry he tagged me... you didn't see it but I know for a fact I should be out.'
Seriously wtf kind of logic is that, since when does there need to be honour in competition?
All TL had to do was make a decision, unfortunately they kinda messed it up. Doesn't mean Slush should burn at the stake for it - everyone can stop qq'ing over a weeks worth of a Mcdonald paycheck and move on knowing TL is better equiped for future events such as this (I hope)
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From what I heard, Slush said he was gonna go by the admins decisions, and did not ASK for anything. Then again I can be wrong, I have no insider knowledge, but I still think, as a former league admin, that they made the correct decision.
It's always very difficult, near impossible, to give a win TO THE MAN WHO DISCED. Slush could have said gg, of course, and not take the regame, but you can't say it's HIS FUCKING FAULT. (that is to say, as long as he didn't whine/begged for the regame)
If he only took what admins gave him, he can't be hold responsible, even if it would have been nice from him to acknowledge his defeat.
Rek, you're being way too harsh with this I think.
He's not a fucking faggot for accepting a regame that was given to him. Merely he took advantage by siding with the admins decision, that's all.
Just don't forget who disced. That makes a whole fucking lot of a difference.
The usual decision in case of disced are the following :
- defloss. If admins are dumb ofc, and depending on how the game goes. (disadvantage or even game -YES team managers often ask for defwin when the other team disced and the game was equal-)
- regame. If the player who disced had an advantage or game was equal and the guy is not being an ass or if admins are smart.
- defwin TO THE DISCER is only given in the most extreme cases, and this appeared to have been one, but regame is still a not-so-unfair decision. You can't really blame Slush, seriously...
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Imo rules are rules. So what if he has bad manner? It is not debatable that he won by playing by the rules. Slush can do w/e he wants (with obeying rules). No need to trash on him. He just likes to play starcraft
EDIT: And on responsibilty, I suppose it would be nice if he did concede, but slush really has no need or obligation to willingly not play it by the book.
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Why does no one seem to mind that
Artosis' was having disc problems before, he knew about them and the problems exist solely on his end
If the guy on the losing side was about to disconnect, the winner would say "pff, no regame the noob should play with a proper set up if he is going to enter a tournament with prize money"
I mean, it's not entirely his fault, but well, it is no way slush's fault that he was playing with faulty equipment or whatever.
GG RE I guess
Ethics in competition are always going to come down to the person anyway, and this might not even have been an ethical choice if slush thought "I'm losing, but I might be able to turn this around.."
It's starcraft FFS.
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On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote:
I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him.
Agreed
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On May 09 2010 13:03 SirNeb wrote:
Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports.
Quite the contrary is true. Manner is everything which keeps us from turning back into stone-age-manners of "oh I got this huge club and I will get myself a wife for my cave with it"-nonsense. It is a BAD concept to repeat the bad examples of others and cite their behaviour as justification for it.
We absolutely need good manners for a better future and since professional sports stars are giving examples for the rest of the nation through their behaviour on TV they are responsible how the next generation will behave. Day[9] always says "everyone in Europe is just nice and friendly" and guess what ... we dont have such massively televised shows of aggressiveness (yet) as there are in the USA with their fake Wrestling aggression and American Football brawling. Just look at the British and their cricket ... very calm and quiet sport. Sure we also have American Football here, but it has maybe a hundredth of the popularity compared to the USA. Maybe there is a connection and maybe there isnt, but every publicized increase in the aggression (or BM in the case of Starcraft) will multiply through kids who are watching the stuff and who start to act like their hero(es) in real life. Being BM "for a living" is NOT COOL!
On the other side it is not really easy to establish a set of ethics and code of conduct for players to adhere to ... do we put a penalty on quitting a game without GGing and which things in chat are unacceptable? If the rules are too flexible they are worth nothing, but if the rules are too tight they become the focus of some matches and the actual game is second page material only. Both ways are less than ideal and leaving the decision to the judges is the right way to go IMO. Even the judges are human beings and may make mistakes in their rulings in the same way it happens in other sports as well. At least Starcraft has one advantage: The rules for tournaments are not set into stone and every new tournament can learn from the hiccups of the previous ones and make these guidelines clearer so the headache at the time of decision making is less severe.
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On May 10 2010 09:51 positron. wrote:
However in individual sports where players are only responsible for themselves such as tennis you would a lot of players give their opponents point if the line judge made a mistake of calling a shot out.
oh come on, I've never seen a tennis pro to do that.
on topic, I haven't seen the game so I don't really know if the decision made by admins was correct or not, but you can't blame Slush for not forfeiting the game. if he believed that he can still win the game (and he has every right to do so), it's up to referees to make the decision. so if you want to blame someone, blame them. I mean, it's not like the decision was made by one person right?
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Slush did whatever he can to get away with a win when he lost, as long as he can get away with it he doesn't care about the idea of fair play. This is a fact.
Which means in the future he will likely proceed with the same mind set.
By letting him get away with this and pointing to the loopholes in the rules saying he didn't violate the rules, TL is failing in protecting Fair Play. Which is the sole purpose of your rules in the first place, to protect the idea of fair play.
I stated this over and over again, yet staffs still keeps pointing to the fact that he didn't violate any rules.
Slush's only punishment so far is merely got all his reputation destroyed by not respecting fair play, and being dishonest.
He deserves more punishment like rekrul said. but not because having rid of his reputation is not enough, no, this is as bad as it comes in an online community, just look at testie, people gives him so much shit even when he's so good all because he hacked and got caught. The reason
he deserves more punishment is to uphold TL's high standards of the idea of fair play, TL have to show people that even when you abuse the system, use the loopholes in the rules to cheat, we will still get you.
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EPT
