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OK so basically the way I see it there are two main scenarios of cheesing. One is where the cheesing player knows he is better than his opponent and either wants to throws his opponent off guard (because he knows the opponent won't scout it -- or, even if he does, won't react properly) or win as quickly as possible ("I'm not wasting my time with you, noob"). The premise: the superior player doesn't really care whether the weaker player scouts the cheese because the cheeser won't really be behind at any point -- it's low risk. I won't lie, I've been cheesed by supposedly superior players who didn't want to fight me head on because they thought it was below them, or something like that.
This also brings me to the second scenario of cheesing: where a weaker player attempts to cheese a stronger player with the hopes the other player doesn't scout it (cuz if he does it's GG). The motivation would be that the weaker player probably knows he doesn't stand a chance in a "normal" game. The premise: the weaker player desperately tries to conceal the cheese, because he knows he will be pretty behind if it is scouted -- it's high risk.
A third possibility would be when two players of about equal skill play each other. One of the players might attempt to "pull a fast one" or gain some advantage in an otherwise pretty equally matched contest. The premise: hide the cheese as well as you can, but no so much pressure as in scenario 2 (for example, maybe you'll get lucky and the other guy won't know how to react; it's moderately risky.
So, your opinions please. Under which cases is cheesing more/most likely? Stronger player cheesing weaker player...weaker player cheesing stronger player...2 players of about equal playing strength cheesing each other?
 
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Cheese happens more often when players are around the same level IMO. Don't know why, just is what I noticed.
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Stronger player cheesing weaker player:
It is likely given that most good players don't like wasting their time playing against newtards, so they get creative and try a lot of weird shit against them.
A country with nuclear technology will never nuke a school-sized country, but it could test weird/new shit like sending in prototype androids to take over.
Weaker player cheesing stronger player:
Happens all the time, a new player will never win a straight up game against a better player unless he gets lucky. So they try their best cheese tactics to throw them off.
It would be like a weaker country smashing hijacked airplanes into a building or smuggling in a couple biological weapons here and there into subways and shit.
Two players of about equal strength cheesing each other:
The cheesing player will do nothing but help the other player improve his anti-cheese tactics which isn't a good thing for the long term.
I would compare it to the U.S. sending in troops to take over Moscow while Putin finds himself underground pressing the nuke button.
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it depends on the type of cheese.
Like, when it's 2 equal strength players you often see Dt drops / Reaver drops. 2 port wraith / proxied factories
When it's a weaker player trying to beat a stronger player you often see stuff like 9 pool into 1 hatch lurker + drop, or mabye 3 rax sunk bust.
When it's a stronger player playing a weaker one... you often see 8rax / single proxy gate / 9pool speed.
i think cheese occurs the most when it's 2 equal players playing against each other.
then it would be the stronger player playing a weaker one
and finally the weaker trying to win against the stronger player(unless they have absolutely 0 confidence).
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United States415 Posts
I disagree with your "scouted cheese --> gg" statement, and this is perhaps the reason stronger players may be comfortable in cheesing players of lower skill. The most classic example (at least from my noob protoss point of view) is proxy 9/9 gate PvP. You see this build on iccup all the time, especially when desti/hbr/match point are MOTW.
The reason the build is so strong is that, at least from my experience with this build, there is only one viable counter: 10/12 gate, cutting probes to get your first shield battery when the cheeser gets his, in which case you still need to micro near perfectly. Against anything else (barring the case where both players proxy), if the cheeser is the stronger player, he will be able to capitalize on the mistake and take an advantage, if not win the game outright. The point is that scouting the cheese doesn't mean you auto-win: it just means you won't auto-die and that you can take an advantage provided you respond correctly.
And therein lies the rub: even decent players who do not have a lot of experience with very specific cheeses can fail to respond correctly to a cheese. And as we all know, it doesn't take much skill to execute a cheese 100% perfectly, whereas it actually does take some skill to scout and respond correctly.
But wait, FiBsTeR, if it takes more skill to counter cheese, why doesn't the stronger player always cheese? The problem is that, unlike solid play, cheese cannot be undone. There is very little variation you can do once you've committed to cheese, even if you've been made. Solid play cannot be "countered" in the sense that the better player with solid play can adapt to what he scouts and trust his superior skill to win the game as the marginal advantages he gains with each adaptation accumulates to game-deciding advantages.
The key takeaway is that cheese should never be tied to the weaker player or stronger player. It all comes down to whether the person being cheesed is knowledgeable of the correct response.
I was a cheesy BW player and most of my wins were not because I was the more skilled player but rather that I grinded the ladder playing the same situations over and over, to the point where if and when I observed a flaw in my opponent's response to my play, I could immediately claim the game as mine simply because I could turn that mistake into a game-winning advantage. On the other hand, all of my losses were generally the same solid counters. And, unlike such solid play, I could do nothing about it but shrug it off and make my "PvP Matchpoint C" game again and hope for the best. The solid player would take that replay and say "Oh, in this situation X, I have to do Y and avoid Z to come out ahead," and add that variation to his list of things to consider in future games. The cheeser says, "Oh, player X knows how to counter cheese Y," and adds the opponent to the list of people to ban from his next game.
One piece of advice to people who get cheesed: once you lose to a cheese, don't even think about what the correct counter is. Learn the cheese first. Learn it to the point where you can execute it yourself flawlessly. Then get plenty of sleep and stay up late with the Koreans the next day, cheesing the fuck out of them with your newly acquired build. I guarantee you within a few hours you will have gathered a few replays of perfectly executed response(s) to the cheese. And it would have taken you much longer to come up with yourself (or else enlist TL to do it for you). Why put in the work when someone miles away already has?
Anyways there's my $0.02 (maybe like $0.05) on cheese. Typing on an iPhone sucks.
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EPT
