On May 06 2010 07:03 swanized wrote: you know this is a 2010 game... it is meant so that you don't need as much skill then BW to play
a game like Broodwar would not sell anymore
this game has no e-sport potential, but don't listen to Dustin Browder... they don't REALLY want it to become an e-sport... they want it to sell
only the manliest of nerds will go on playing BW so yah stop complaining about that game and go back to good old 12 years old engine that made a game REALLY epic
You just took the words out of my mouth or rather, the keys out of my keyboard!
I was going to post that i agree with where you are coming from but then I realized that I have played the game like 5 times and have no real say in the matter. Give it time man, why don't you just take it upon yourself to be as good as possible, even if you have to change your traditional brood war style.
It is a different game that may or may not ruin brood war but "staying true to brood war" is NOT what blizzard cares about. To people that have not played SC1 this game is probably incredibly hard to play... You are WAY too biased. Ive been around forever too tho so I feel you.
On May 06 2010 07:00 Chill wrote: 1300 games?! There's no way... How are you only 1600-1700 at 1300 games?
When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit.
Yeah, before when there was very little experience in RTS gaming.
People didn't have the ability to play with more than 50 APM when BW first game out. SC2 is obviously not the same case.
On May 06 2010 07:08 Hypnosis wrote: To people that have not played SC1 this game is probably incredibly hard to play... You are WAY too biased. Ive been around forever too tho so I feel you.
Just give it time
No, it's actually not really hard. I'm currently playing with friends who played SC:BW like 10 years ago and were the 10 probes-into-carrier type of player. Now they play SC2 for about a week they got instantly placed into platinum. I don't say that platinum players are very good, but still, after 1 week? That would not have happened in SC:BW.
I've only played maybe ten games (but with mild success at low levels), and I agree with most of your points (esp. the harass and one-base build points). But I think, judging from what I've read, if you play the game more, you'll probably learn to understand it more and like it more.
On May 06 2010 07:00 Chill wrote: 1300 games?! There's no way... How are you only 1600-1700 at 1300 games?
When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit.
Chill is 100% right on this, check out some old Boxer games around 2001-2 and you will see both players having only around 40-70 apm. anything above 70-80 was like high, in BW people like Strelok had 180-220 apm and owned lots of people but that was 10 years later.
So expect apm to rise over the years, one day a thread will pop up over 250 apm player or something like that and everyone gonna be like omfg and talk about already discussed stuff :S
im at plat with 50-70 apm when i need it, i don't spam drones or do anything to increase it. I use as much as I need.
On May 06 2010 07:08 Hypnosis wrote: To people that have not played SC1 this game is probably incredibly hard to play... You are WAY too biased. Ive been around forever too tho so I feel you.
Just give it time
No, it's actually not really hard. I'm currently playing with friends who played SC:BW like 10 years ago and were the 10 probes-into-carrier type of player. Now they play SC2 for about a week they got instantly placed into platinum. I don't say that platinum players are very good, but still, after 1 week? That would not have happened in SC:BW.
shut up d00d my experience and skillz are supposed to worth something!!
Well then that explains why alot of people do not like it. It is too easy.
I know people above mentioned some builds, but thats not what I'm looking for. Micro is what gives people the wow factor, since its usually difficult to do. It's amazing how Fantasy can make his vultures be more cost effective than any other terran. It's amazing how Flash can macro while doing the best MnM control I've ever seen which obliterates lurkers. (I'm a D+ terran and can't micro against a lurker army so this amazes me every time). I haven't seen anything that can't be replicable by even me in terms of micro in SC2.
Now in sc2 its like, wow, he had a better unit composition than the other person. Still, the game itself is fun but right now its no where close to the original. Any changes that I can think of to improve it would also be a step backwards as it would make it less noob friendly.
So then just play the original Starcraft? SC2 is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more excited to have SCBW on Bnet 2!! Say good bye to lag (I hope).
On May 06 2010 07:20 GunSlinger wrote: So then just play the original Starcraft? SC2 is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more excited to have SCBW on Bnet 2!! Say good bye to lag (I hope).
On May 06 2010 07:20 GunSlinger wrote: So then just play the original Starcraft? SC2 is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more excited to have SCBW on Bnet 2!! Say good bye to lag (I hope).
Wait, are they actually doing this?
Are you kidding ? After SC2 is released Blizzzard will just try and kill SCBW and W3... Just like they tried to kill BW after W3 came out.
On May 06 2010 06:41 decemvre wrote: 12. Planetary Fortress You're saying that Terran can make an expansion that does 50 (or whatever) damage anywhere on the map and always have 20 SCVs repairing it ? What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army. Are you kidding me ? I can't send 8 roach and 8 hidra (16 units total to take out 1 single otherwise undefended expansion)
1. This is not SC1 it takes a long time to figure out how to use this to you advantage, but it WILL be done.
2. 250-300 APM in SC2 is probably 90% spam so my answer is that you are spending too much times spamming.
3. Blizzard said they would BUY maps from people.
4. Don't make them, do u miss the Every unit is the same size shit from SC:BW. A person is not equal in size to the vulture he drives IRL.
5. You probably don't macro too well, because off 1 base as terran all i can do is go MMM (Maybe only MM with the lack of gas)
6. Not everyone spams as much as you do. Spam less and you can't complain about ur fucking 300 APM
7. U mean to say Casting is less fuckin annoying in SC2. Which is not a complaint. I'd like to not have to hotkey all my Ghosts to separate hotkeys to storm efficiently.
8. Go watch a SC:BW Replay from when the game first came out. U will say its fucking boring probably. nothing has been figured out yet. Think about when and how, and most importantly the time period when the following were discovered: - Mutua Micro - Hold position micro - Patrol Micro - D matrix marine to kill lurkers. - Attacking a unit of your own positioned above a lurker - Being as good as Flash - Mutua vs Scourge
9. This is beta, i promise you haven't tried everything, that statement is complete bullshit.
10. I don't think i've tried, 1 point for you.
11. Forcefields, You can't say "busing ramps (Yes, its so annoying it hurts, but so was DArkSwarm + Lurker so we can learn to always defend as far away from ramps as possible but the problem is darkswarm+lurker vs Terran at least had 1 counter (irradiate), whereas using forcefields on ramp has preciselly 0 counters." and not be kidding, so i will disregard that because you HAVE NOT TRIED EVERYTHING
11. (Again) Ultralisks are a little too weak, but they do a TERRIFIC job of tearing Tier 1 units to shit. Have u ever made one?
12. Planetary fortress, Can't lift, and the #1 problem with this statement: "What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army" is that your whole army does not contain a single air unit.
13. What the fuck are you talking about? I played zerg for like 100+ games and i haven't had this problem.
14. Don't cry about how Zerg has to do work to make a fuck ton of units at the same time. How many Rax can make 19 units @ 1 time? ZERO. Mule is not the only option for Terrans, it is one of 3, making it more difficult to chose what to use, and what is this: "where as Spawn Larva has to be used on each hatchery individually" I have to MULE on each mineral patch individually. It is really fuckin hard to chrono boost off multiple bases (or even one) for much less gain than Spawn larvae each.
15. If you have 4 bases and none are mined out and 24 supply on GAS is a big deal, u have a problem.
All in All - i think this is a complete bullshit whine thread because yes, there are some things that need to be fixed, but i have a question. How many expansion packs are coming out on top of the original release?
Closing statement from you: "Its not that its not balanced but i remember from when i played BW, i never used to get angry at the game, but only at myself for losing. Now i just get angry at the game or the maps, most of the times. Fewer times it will be something i can get angry at myself but thats just some of the time."
Blizzard is NOT in charge of what u are angry at when u lose, thats ur own damn fault. Blaming the game because u get outplayed is not the attitude of a competitive RTS gamer unless your name is IdrA because he is really fucking good.
Look at the racial imbalances right now, even if only for the race YOU play.
ZvP Fast Mutuas win ZvT Nydus worms, Terran is really Really immobile in SC2 on multiple bases.
Advice: If you miss moving shot, play Brood War If you think APM is useless, stop fucking spamming If you don't like the maps, make your own If you don't like massive units, don't make them If you think 1 base play is strong, play off 1 base. If you hate MBS and infinite selection, and automine. Don't select multiple buildings, hotkey only 12 units @ a time, and don't set your hatches rally to a mineral field or extractor. (or play BW) If you think casting is 2EZ, play BW or play Toss if u h8 FF If u think WOW factor is gone, do insane shit If u think u know every micro trick in the game, Fucking quit because ur full of shit. Don't make spore crawlers If u dislike FF, play as toss, only attack with nydus worms, shut up. (Learn to count) Because Ultras are the 2nd number 11, Don't make ultras vs Immortals or Marauders If u dislike planetary Fortress, MAKE FUCKING AIR UNITS If you have trouble with harass, make Nydus Worms Make multiple hatches, don't complain because u are part of the minority who dislikes Zerg macro because they think it's IMBA If u don't want 24 Drones on gas, don't put 24 drones on gas. If you want to make another whine thread, Don't
On May 06 2010 06:41 decemvre wrote: 12. Planetary Fortress You're saying that Terran can make an expansion that does 50 (or whatever) damage anywhere on the map and always have 20 SCVs repairing it ? What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army. Are you kidding me ? I can't send 8 roach and 8 hidra (16 units total to take out 1 single otherwise undefended expansion)
Get a Corruptor on it? haha
I'm not talking about by the time i can afford to get corruptors, im talking about earlier in the game. When it matters even more.
On May 06 2010 06:41 decemvre wrote: 12. Planetary Fortress You're saying that Terran can make an expansion that does 50 (or whatever) damage anywhere on the map and always have 20 SCVs repairing it ? What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army. Are you kidding me ? I can't send 8 roach and 8 hidra (16 units total to take out 1 single otherwise undefended expansion)
Get a Corruptor on it? haha
I'm not talking about by the time i can afford to get corruptors, im talking about earlier in the game. When it matters even more.
Then it's forcing you to invest in economy and it kinda goes against some of your other complaining (1 base play is too strong). Terran expansions are too strong because of PF's but playing off one base is too strong too? If your one base play is so strong, kill the Terran who expands. If not, then play macro game like you seem to want to really do.
EPT
