EPTnony wins.
Why i hate SC2 (longer version)
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
nony wins. | ||
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
2. Not going to happen, because the average player doesn't want to wrangle with an outdated 2 decades ago interface like Brood War. There's no reason infinite selection, MBS, and others shouldn't be in the game. Its pointless busy work for most, and an e-dick waving contest for a select few. 3. Most of the stock maps are pretty mediocre or bad. I'll Give you that. Backdoor gimmicks need to have way more HP, just like stacked temples and such from BW 4. Not even a valid complaint because its nonsense. 5. If this is true why does Zerg fast expand nearly every game, then proceed to decimate every other race in any sort of long-range macro game? FE are certainly more risky right now than they are in BW right now, which probably goes back to the map issue more than anything wrong with the actual gameplay. 6. Again, average player expects an interface from this decade. 7. Probably true. Spells across the board are weaker than BW counterparts to counteract this, except for FF, which is obviously insanely good. Modern interface comes into play once again, so don't expect it to change. 8. I've seen plenty of strong plays, unorthodox strategy, and so-on from top players (TLO, Nony, etc) Watching new strategies develop is a great WOW factor for me (for example, when the Bisu build developed, or Flash broke out the double armory push). Micro could be better but I think thats because a lot of players are lazy, as I've also seen great micro from players. But I'm guessing you consider moving shot the only micro that matters. 9. Another moving shot complaint. Yawn 10. Zerg whining, Nonsense 11. Incredibly strong spell that I think needs to be a bit balanced, I just don't know how. One of your few legit gripes IMO. 12. Planetary Fortress is an incredible investment in not only gas and minerals, but also the lost mining speed and scan from the from the orbital. Considering its power, its still barely used because of its true cost. A laughable complaint; for how much the Terran loses in getting a PF, you should have to send a lot to take it down. 13. What? I think the complaint for most of the beta was that harassing wasn't all that incredibly effective, especially against Zerg, because they can repower drones so quickly, and the creep speed boost allows speedlings to catch harassers. And harass could easily end the game in BW. Reaver drops, vulture run-bys, ling run-bys, and muta harass could all wipe out the entire economy of an opponent. 14. Spawn larva is by far the most powerful macro ability, allowing zerg to saturate expansions incredibly quickly, recover from both econ and army loss, and rapidly create a defense or a tech switch. Judging from your complaints, you are a Zerg player complaining about your races problems, even though in a straight up macro game they are DOMINANT versus the other races to the extent that they have to rely almost exclusively on timing pushes/cheese to win? Spent too much time writing this after your thread got closed to not post this. Dumb thread that deserved to be closed. | ||
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Simplistik
1975 Posts
2. There isn't enough to do. 14. Spawn Larva is too much to do. | ||
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Meatloaf
Spain664 Posts
not in the APM demand though... maybe because I'm a 50 APM noob and like SC2 is now i still can play and enjoy. | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
But I really don't understand 13. How can you complain about harass being too strong. A harass heavy game does require more micro/multitasking. In my eyes strong harass only makes the game harder, which is a good thing. | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:50 Simplistik wrote: You seem to contradict yourself: 2. There isn't enough to do. 14. Spawn Larva is too much to do. I didn't say it was too much, i can easily manage to keep a very low energy on all queens, i was just saying it would be nice if T and P had more to do aswell. | ||
KwarK
United States42259 Posts
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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SoManyDeadLings
Canada255 Posts
Stop it with these threads. Blizzard won't listen, they're making a game with a commerical interest. Their PR puts up a nice feigned interest in what die-hard BW players have to say, but honestly, the majority of sales will probably come from the ten year olds that you described. Plus, like many have said before, this is BETA. Let's pull out the original SC beta and see how balanced that game is? You're hoping Blizzard would consider your input... well, good luck. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:50 Simplistik wrote: You seem to contradict yourself: 2. There isn't enough to do. 14. Spawn Larva is too much to do. my thoughts exactly also, you played 1300 matches in a game you hate? i do agree with you on some points, but they obviously dont ruin the game for me. on some other points i think youre exagarating. | ||
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teh leet newb
United States1999 Posts
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:52 uNiGNoRe wrote: I can understand where you're coming from. And nearly all of your points are somehow true. I definitely agree on 14. Spawn larvae does need more time/effort to use. But I really don't understand 13. How can you complain about harass being too strong. A harass heavy game does require more micro/multitasking. In my eyes strong harass only makes the game harder, which is a good thing. This is a somewhat biased complaint because i am zerg, and as well all know it, zerg gets harrased to DEATH in all matchups exept zvz. Its not that there shouldn't be any harassing going on... but that harassing should not end the game. Running in with 6 or 7 reapers and killing off your opponents early ongoing tech can end a game. And thats not what harrassing should be about. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:56 WiljushkA wrote: my thoughts exactly also, you played 1300 matches in a game you hate? i do agree with you on some points, but they obviously dont ruin the game for me. on some other points i think youre exagarating. When he has been in the community for 10 years and playing bw for 10 years, dont you think he really wanted to play alot of starcraft 2 just to get into it? It is so silly to write these snippy comments to a guy that has played alot and done alot of research in the game. | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
Or rather, 5 exists mostly because of 3. | ||
Aesop
Hungary11270 Posts
Things like one-base-play are likely to change too. When people find the economic niches, maybe something like FE will become standard. | ||
Chill
Calgary25974 Posts
When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit. | ||
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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KwarK
United States42259 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
a game like Broodwar would not sell anymore this game has no e-sport potential, but don't listen to Dustin Browder... they don't REALLY want it to become an e-sport... they want it to sell only the manliest of nerds will go on playing BW so yah stop complaining about that game and go back to good old 12 years old engine that made a game REALLY epic | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:03 swanized wrote: you know this is a 2010 game... it is meant so that you don't need as much skill then BW to play a game like Broodwar would not sell anymore this game has no e-sport potential, but don't listen to Dustin Browder... they don't REALLY want it to become an e-sport... they want it to sell only the manliest of nerds will go on playing BW so yah stop complaining about that game and go back to good old 12 years old engine that made a game REALLY epic You just took the words out of my mouth or rather, the keys out of my keyboard! | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
It is a different game that may or may not ruin brood war but "staying true to brood war" is NOT what blizzard cares about. To people that have not played SC1 this game is probably incredibly hard to play... You are WAY too biased. Ive been around forever too tho so I feel you. Just give it time | ||
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:00 Chill wrote: 1300 games?! There's no way... How are you only 1600-1700 at 1300 games? When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit. Yeah, before when there was very little experience in RTS gaming. People didn't have the ability to play with more than 50 APM when BW first game out. SC2 is obviously not the same case. | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:08 Hypnosis wrote: To people that have not played SC1 this game is probably incredibly hard to play... You are WAY too biased. Ive been around forever too tho so I feel you. Just give it time No, it's actually not really hard. I'm currently playing with friends who played SC:BW like 10 years ago and were the 10 probes-into-carrier type of player. Now they play SC2 for about a week they got instantly placed into platinum. I don't say that platinum players are very good, but still, after 1 week? That would not have happened in SC:BW. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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zealing
Canada806 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:00 Chill wrote: 1300 games?! There's no way... How are you only 1600-1700 at 1300 games? When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit. Chill is 100% right on this, check out some old Boxer games around 2001-2 and you will see both players having only around 40-70 apm. anything above 70-80 was like high, in BW people like Strelok had 180-220 apm and owned lots of people but that was 10 years later. So expect apm to rise over the years, one day a thread will pop up over 250 apm player or something like that and everyone gonna be like omfg and talk about already discussed stuff :S im at plat with 50-70 apm when i need it, i don't spam drones or do anything to increase it. I use as much as I need. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:12 uNiGNoRe wrote: No, it's actually not really hard. I'm currently playing with friends who played SC:BW like 10 years ago and were the 10 probes-into-carrier type of player. Now they play SC2 for about a week they got instantly placed into platinum. I don't say that platinum players are very good, but still, after 1 week? That would not have happened in SC:BW. shut up d00d my experience and skillz are supposed to worth something!! Well then that explains why alot of people do not like it. It is too easy. | ||
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calvinL
Canada416 Posts
I know people above mentioned some builds, but thats not what I'm looking for. Micro is what gives people the wow factor, since its usually difficult to do. It's amazing how Fantasy can make his vultures be more cost effective than any other terran. It's amazing how Flash can macro while doing the best MnM control I've ever seen which obliterates lurkers. (I'm a D+ terran and can't micro against a lurker army so this amazes me every time). I haven't seen anything that can't be replicable by even me in terms of micro in SC2. Now in sc2 its like, wow, he had a better unit composition than the other person. Still, the game itself is fun but right now its no where close to the original. Any changes that I can think of to improve it would also be a step backwards as it would make it less noob friendly. | ||
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:20 GunSlinger wrote: So then just play the original Starcraft? SC2 is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more excited to have SCBW on Bnet 2!! Say good bye to lag (I hope). Wait, are they actually doing this? | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
Are you kidding ? After SC2 is released Blizzzard will just try and kill SCBW and W3... Just like they tried to kill BW after W3 came out. | ||
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k20a
Canada412 Posts
Am I missing something here? edit- I mean by click move, click shoot etc; just like dancing dragoons | ||
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KwarK
United States42259 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:26 k20a wrote: Wait... stalkers aren't a move-shoot type unit? Marines.. marauders..... tanks, what? Am I missing something here? edit- I mean by click move, click shoot etc; just like dancing dragoons He means moving shot not moving during the cooldown. | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:26 k20a wrote: Wait... stalkers aren't a move-shoot type unit? Marines.. marauders..... tanks, what? Am I missing something here? edit- I mean by click move, click shoot etc; just like dancing dragoons This is still not exactly move-shot but you can see the different between using atack to attack and using patrol in SC1. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:41 decemvre wrote: 12. Planetary Fortress You're saying that Terran can make an expansion that does 50 (or whatever) damage anywhere on the map and always have 20 SCVs repairing it ? What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army. Are you kidding me ? I can't send 8 roach and 8 hidra (16 units total to take out 1 single otherwise undefended expansion) Get a Corruptor on it? haha | ||
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Ursad0n
United States523 Posts
2. 250-300 APM in SC2 is probably 90% spam so my answer is that you are spending too much times spamming. 3. Blizzard said they would BUY maps from people. 4. Don't make them, do u miss the Every unit is the same size shit from SC:BW. A person is not equal in size to the vulture he drives IRL. 5. You probably don't macro too well, because off 1 base as terran all i can do is go MMM (Maybe only MM with the lack of gas) 6. Not everyone spams as much as you do. Spam less and you can't complain about ur fucking 300 APM 7. U mean to say Casting is less fuckin annoying in SC2. Which is not a complaint. I'd like to not have to hotkey all my Ghosts to separate hotkeys to storm efficiently. 8. Go watch a SC:BW Replay from when the game first came out. U will say its fucking boring probably. nothing has been figured out yet. Think about when and how, and most importantly the time period when the following were discovered: - Mutua Micro - Hold position micro - Patrol Micro - D matrix marine to kill lurkers. - Attacking a unit of your own positioned above a lurker - Being as good as Flash - Mutua vs Scourge 9. This is beta, i promise you haven't tried everything, that statement is complete bullshit. 10. I don't think i've tried, 1 point for you. 11. Forcefields, You can't say "busing ramps (Yes, its so annoying it hurts, but so was DArkSwarm + Lurker so we can learn to always defend as far away from ramps as possible but the problem is darkswarm+lurker vs Terran at least had 1 counter (irradiate), whereas using forcefields on ramp has preciselly 0 counters." and not be kidding, so i will disregard that because you HAVE NOT TRIED EVERYTHING 11. (Again) Ultralisks are a little too weak, but they do a TERRIFIC job of tearing Tier 1 units to shit. Have u ever made one? 12. Planetary fortress, Can't lift, and the #1 problem with this statement: "What this basically means is that Terran can have an expansion that I CANT take out unless i attack it with my whole army" is that your whole army does not contain a single air unit. 13. What the fuck are you talking about? I played zerg for like 100+ games and i haven't had this problem. 14. Don't cry about how Zerg has to do work to make a fuck ton of units at the same time. How many Rax can make 19 units @ 1 time? ZERO. Mule is not the only option for Terrans, it is one of 3, making it more difficult to chose what to use, and what is this: "where as Spawn Larva has to be used on each hatchery individually" I have to MULE on each mineral patch individually. It is really fuckin hard to chrono boost off multiple bases (or even one) for much less gain than Spawn larvae each. 15. If you have 4 bases and none are mined out and 24 supply on GAS is a big deal, u have a problem. All in All - i think this is a complete bullshit whine thread because yes, there are some things that need to be fixed, but i have a question. How many expansion packs are coming out on top of the original release? + Show Spoiler + Two extra, that's a three part game, calm down Closing statement from you: "Its not that its not balanced but i remember from when i played BW, i never used to get angry at the game, but only at myself for losing. Now i just get angry at the game or the maps, most of the times. Fewer times it will be something i can get angry at myself but thats just some of the time." Blizzard is NOT in charge of what u are angry at when u lose, thats ur own damn fault. Blaming the game because u get outplayed is not the attitude of a competitive RTS gamer unless your name is IdrA because he is really fucking good. Look at the racial imbalances right now, even if only for the race YOU play. ZvP Fast Mutuas win ZvT Nydus worms, Terran is really Really immobile in SC2 on multiple bases. Advice: If you miss moving shot, play Brood War If you think APM is useless, stop fucking spamming If you don't like the maps, make your own If you don't like massive units, don't make them If you think 1 base play is strong, play off 1 base. If you hate MBS and infinite selection, and automine. Don't select multiple buildings, hotkey only 12 units @ a time, and don't set your hatches rally to a mineral field or extractor. (or play BW) If you think casting is 2EZ, play BW or play Toss if u h8 FF If u think WOW factor is gone, do insane shit If u think u know every micro trick in the game, Fucking quit because ur full of shit. Don't make spore crawlers If u dislike FF, play as toss, only attack with nydus worms, shut up. (Learn to count) Because Ultras are the 2nd number 11, Don't make ultras vs Immortals or Marauders If u dislike planetary Fortress, MAKE FUCKING AIR UNITS If you have trouble with harass, make Nydus Worms Make multiple hatches, don't complain because u are part of the minority who dislikes Zerg macro because they think it's IMBA If u don't want 24 Drones on gas, don't put 24 drones on gas. If you want to make another whine thread, Don't | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
I'm not talking about by the time i can afford to get corruptors, im talking about earlier in the game. When it matters even more. | ||
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KwarK
United States42259 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:31 Ursad0n wrote: If you want to make another whine thread, Don't | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:32 decemvre wrote: I'm not talking about by the time i can afford to get corruptors, im talking about earlier in the game. When it matters even more. Then it's forcing you to invest in economy and it kinda goes against some of your other complaining (1 base play is too strong). Terran expansions are too strong because of PF's but playing off one base is too strong too? If your one base play is so strong, kill the Terran who expands. If not, then play macro game like you seem to want to really do. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
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Itachii
Poland12466 Posts
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:35 Liquid`NonY wrote: Then it's forcing you to invest in economy and it kinda goes against some of your other complaining (1 base play is too strong). Terran expansions are too strong because of PF's but playing off one base is too strong too? If your one base play is so strong, kill the Terran who expands. If not, then play macro game like you seem to want to really do. I really don't understand you Nony. Why are you such a huge defender for SC2 ? These are serious complaints i'm making here and i'm sure you understand all of them though you might not agree with some (say PF), i refuse to believe you disagree with all of them. There's no way in hell someone as good as you doesn't understand my more important complaints. My guess is you're just happy to ignore the lack of EVERYTHING in this game and go with whatever blizzard gives you. 2 years from now we will both be playing a game where SCOUTING is the most important thing you have to do and basically everything will revolve around knowing what ur opponent is doing and countering that. Nothing more. | ||
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vOddy
Sweden402 Posts
On May 06 2010 06:56 WiljushkA wrote: my thoughts exactly also, you played 1300 matches in a game you hate? i do agree with you on some points, but they obviously dont ruin the game for me. on some other points i think youre exagarating. It's obvious he wants to like the game. That's why he played 1300 games. He just can't like it, but he wants to. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:42 decemvre wrote: Isnt that the way Broodwar is now? | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
I'm guessing you can't just simply scout and counter this micro, can you ? | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:45 vOddy wrote: It's obvious he wants to like the game. That's why he played 1300 games. He just can't like it, but he wants to. Precisely | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
I absolutely love the fact that the interface makes it easier to play. The top players are top players because of their understanding, the high level tactics, the incredible map control, the ability to seemingly be everywhere at once without missing a beat in production, etc. Those are all already mentally taxing, difficult things to be skilled at, so there's no need to tag a physical requirement onto it as well. A lot of these sc2 disappointment threads just reek of having only played mainly one game competitively and now trying to force everything to be exactly like that one game. You see it in every gaming community when a new game is released, the specifics change but the underlying complaining remains the same. | ||
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Sosha
United States749 Posts
yes, the micro aspect of SC2 seems to be long gone, compared to that of BW - and I agree about the apm thing too. I worked pretty hard and vigorously to pick up my Protoss from liek 160 to 220 apm and now, in SC2, it doesnt seem liek it matters as much, as i can pretty much accomplish the same stuff that I need with about 130 apm, mostly beacuse u really dont have to click too much because u can hotkey liek 14 gates on 1 hotkey and then just spam 'zeal' etc.. 1 base play is very strong and evident in SC2.. Another thing that i liekd about BW is that it had much diversity, at least with Protoss matchups. For instance, in PvT, u could open w/ FE and still be safe. U could open fast rvr drop, fast dt, or even make arbiters. In SC2, if u try FE v T, u're doomed and theres no way u can be safe or build up quick enough to stop anything he might try. Some of the counters to Terran units almost seem impossible - like mass marine w/ a few marauder backup + medivac.. I mean.. all units suck against marine. Zeal, sentry, stalker, immortal.. Zeal does pretty good dmg, but against a mass horde of marines, and the fact that they can make 2 at a time, have stim, + 10 hp bonus, and medivac.. what zeal has? a very slight momentary speed increase when running into battle? I think speed-zeals from BW are liek 100000000 x's better than 'charge'... totally stupid upgrade.. (not saying its not useful in SC2 though, cause obviously zealots would suck even more without this "upgrade") a couple things i wanted to point out tho, although i havent finished the thread yet: spore colonies.. are fine.. because 1 important factor: They can move. forcefields are a nessecity for Protoss because storm isnt easy to get to, nor as effective as it was from BW. there is a way to battle agianst forcefield. EMP. may not work for Zerg, but if the protoss doesnt have any enery, they cant cast any spells, correct? and zerg just has their mass units and a handy little imbalanced bastard called the roach. Not only doe sit have 145 HP, which is more than most of the PRotoss HP units @ tier 1, but its ranged (slightly, so it can be micro'd), does 16 dmg, burrows and is capable of moving while burrowed and the biggest feature of them that makes them pretty overpowered is the fact that they can heal faster than a medic would heal them from BW.. Even Nony has noticed this atrocity and i'm glad that someones agrees w/ it besides me. Again, Zerg isnt supposed to have units as strong as Protoss, HP wise, they're supposed to outnumber them with cheap units produced quicker due to their hatcheries.. zerg seems to be even stronger of a force in SC2 than in BW, i mean, they have a lot of improvement aspects to them, as compared to terran or protoss who seem to have kept a lot of their features with no real improvements (except maybe forcefield, collousus, or planetary fortress etc) zerg has their queen which doubles their larva production, making 1 hatchery basically = 2, they have spawn creep ability w/ OL's, and of course the speed-creep enhancement where all units move quicker on creep.. so couple that with the cheap units that are really fierce that u just have to transform from larva so all u really have to spend $$ on is the building itself and maybe an upgrade or two. Not quite the same as protoss who has to not only spend 150$/gateway but also upgrades and the units themselves which are alrdy expensive. It's not liek we can pop out 2 zealots at a time from 1 gateway and theres no upgrade or spell that can equal zergs production. warp gates + chrono boost + forcefields are Protoss ways of compensating for these shortcomings cause really, warp gates are pretty awesome.. its like taking a page out of the zergs playbook, being able to have units warp in anywhere, like a nydus network. | ||
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TimmyMac
Canada499 Posts
They're in the business of making money. If they feel that making a Broodwar clone with a 3d engine is the best way to do it, they will. | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:35 Liquid`NonY wrote: Then it's forcing you to invest in economy and it kinda goes against some of your other complaining (1 base play is too strong). Terran expansions are too strong because of PF's but playing off one base is too strong too? If your one base play is so strong, kill the Terran who expands. If not, then play macro game like you seem to want to really do. i agree with many things that op said, but u are missing something comon nony u are one of the best BW players and u really know what he means about 1base play its too strong, lets say that everybody play 1base allin what will happen to the game? it will become Boring as hell, do not know why so many people criticize the point of view of the OP when he is totally right, and them come a morron that said, dont do this or that if u dont like ppl like this i think never played BW and just want a easy game to master, its real that SC2 its in BETA but that doesnt mean i cant talk about what i dont like For god sake. | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:42 decemvre wrote: I really don't understand you Nony. Why are you such a huge defender for SC2 ? These are serious complaints i'm making here and i'm sure you understand all of them though you might not agree with some (say PF), i refuse to believe you disagree with all of them. There's no way in hell someone as good as you doesn't understand my more important complaints. My guess is you're just happy to ignore the lack of EVERYTHING in this game and go with whatever blizzard gives you. 2 years from now we will both be playing a game where SCOUTING is the most important thing you have to do and basically everything will revolve around knowing what ur opponent is doing and countering that. Nothing more. Love it! | ||
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wanderer
United States641 Posts
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:51 Trumpet wrote: I don't get the APM arguments at all. Incredibly high apm shouldn't be a requirement, and it never truly was in BW. sAviOr's APM was never notably high, but he managed to be the best in the world. I absolutely love the fact that the interface makes it easier to play. The top players are top players because of their understanding, the high level tactics, the incredible map control, the ability to seemingly be everywhere at once without missing a beat in production, etc. Those are all already mentally taxing, difficult things to be skilled at, so there's no need to tag a physical requirement onto it as well. A lot of these sc2 disappointment threads just reek of having only played mainly one game competitively and now trying to force everything to be exactly like that one game. You see it in every gaming community when a new game is released, the specifics change but the underlying complaining remains the same. man just watch the game Jaedong vs Midas and tell me if u dont need High APM to make those plays Jaedong did, what happen to this PPL this game have more than 20,000views a game that have 10years old | ||
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Ziph
Netherlands970 Posts
EVERY GAME THESE DAYS and for the last 4years gets made so FUCKING RETARDED EASY that it becomes boring after 5minutes of playing. Why they do this and why it will never change. You buy it play it for 2minutes then get bored. Making you buy a new game. aka more money. Reminds me of this, <3 Pure Pwnage. | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
Some people don't seem to understand the following. Having 300 apm in BW doesn't mean you are twice as good as someone who has 150 apm; it just means you get a slight advantage because you worked harder and that small advantage gets smaller as apm goes higher. Imagine in a 20 minute game, the difference between 400 apm and 300 apm as 2 idle workers and the difference between 150 apm and 50 apm as 20 idle workers. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:14 zealing wrote: Chill is 100% right on this, check out some old Boxer games around 2001-2 and you will see both players having only around 40-70 apm. anything above 70-80 was like high, in BW people like Strelok had 180-220 apm and owned lots of people but that was 10 years later. In 2001-2002? Koreans? That is nonsense. When bwchart came out, Nazgul was given hell for having been slow with his 170ish apm. Boxer was 200+ apm at the time, and players like nada and chojja were much faster. Even some players who never did well professionally, like arang, had 350+ apm before bwchart came out. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
APM rage is nice to see though. I <3 APM rage. | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
The economy is ridiculous, its just so awful.. It feels like you're limited to 1base play otherwise you're constantly poor. If you have good macro as a zerg player it feels impossible to expand because rather than adding hatcheries, you just make queen.. They made a crappy substitute for macro. "Lets just get automine, hotkeying multiple buildings, then we will have to add queens or MULEs or something stupid so players arent idle at their computers" Zerg get 1 spell caster.. nice.. There is no crucial timings really.. Like when your 9muta are out, or when your consume research finishes. There is no way of containing enemy in their base with muta or lurkers or anything. not really any use for detector until late game. Its hard to tell what the map is with the weird terran and you start with the map with everything already showing.. its hard to tell whats going on in the mini map. and i swear to god.. sometimes my units just walk right past an MM ball when i attack move.. I dont know if its a bug or i accidently left click a building or what.. but definately something wrong. On May 06 2010 07:03 swanized wrote: you know this is a 2010 game... it is meant so that you don't need as much skill then BW to play a game like Broodwar would not sell anymore this game has no e-sport potential, but don't listen to Dustin Browder... they don't REALLY want it to become an e-sport... they want it to sell only the manliest of nerds will go on playing BW so yah stop complaining about that game and go back to good old 12 years old engine that made a game REALLY epic Yes! I totally agree lmao.. I dont trust Dustin Browder at all.. On May 06 2010 07:00 Chill wrote: 1300 games?! There's no way... How are you only 1600-1700 at 1300 games? When Brood War was competitive, many of the top players had 50 APM. It takes awhile to learn the game. Not sure why people keep ignoring this and expecting everyone to be fully comfortable with every unit. Its different though.. Before brood war, the only players with any experience were like.. wc2 players or something.. now everyone has rts experience. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
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Jusciax
Lithuania588 Posts
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:23 Liquid`NonY wrote: Ah whatever. I just wrote 700 words explaining some shit but I was way too insulting during it. Here's the watered-down version: you don't understand StarCraft and you're bad. I'm guessing you aren't winning as many SC2 games as you would like and you can't figure out how to get an edge on your opponent. Not enough knowledge has trickled down from people with talent so your options are very limited. You have been spoiled by SC:BW. An enormous, absolutely huge, ridiculously large amount of effort has gone into making the play in SC:BW so spectacular. You expect it instantly from SC2. Thankfully, it's a different game. I suggest you put it aside for 5 years and then come back to it. Cya way to insulting ? are you kidding me ? insulting me for what ? for asking for a more demanding and fun game ? Seriously i was feeling angry at myself for having nothing better to do at 2AM than writing this; you have nothing better to do than to insult me? | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:30 decemvre wrote: way to insulting ? are you kidding me ? insulting me for what ? for asking for a more demanding and fun game ? Seriously i was feeling angry at myself for having nothing better to do at 2AM than writing this; you have nothing better to do than to insult me? I think he's saying the game is fun and demanding and you seem unable to realize that. Your comments cheapen the skill of higher level players while you tout your 1700 points as if it means you're better than D+ in scbw. | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:30 decemvre wrote: way to insulting ? are you kidding me ? insulting me for what ? for asking for a more demanding and fun game ? Seriously i was feeling angry at myself for having nothing better to do at 2AM than writing this; you have nothing better to do than to insult me? just remember he is the one that was on korea, won tsl, he can insult u lol | ||
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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Ursad0n
United States523 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:30 decemvre wrote: way to insulting ? are you kidding me ? insulting me for what ? for asking for a more demanding and fun game ? Seriously i was feeling angry at myself for having nothing better to do at 2AM than writing this; you have nothing better to do than to insult me? Dude, u haven't read your post from the perspective of someone like Nony, a well known, high ass level player. Before u say you are asking for a "more demanding and fun game" think about how awful you are compared to him, and how expansive his knowledge is. You have played 1300 fucking games and u only have a rating of 1600-1700, that right there says you are bad. Also if you want ANYONE to listen to u, don't say shit like "you have nothing better to do than to insult me?" because 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of people will side with Nony over you. And the .00000000000000000000000000000000000001% on your side is you, because of how insignificant your opinion is compared to the number of people who play Starcraft. | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:45 Ursad0n wrote: Dude, u haven't read your post from the perspective of someone like Nony, a well known, high ass level player. Before u say you are asking for a "more demanding and fun game" think about how awful you are compared to him, and how expansive his knowledge is. You have played 1300 fucking games and u only have a rating of 1600-1700, that right there says you are bad. Also if you want ANYONE to listen to u, don't say shit like "you have nothing better to do than to insult me?" because 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of people will side with Nony over you. And the .00000000000000000000000000000000000001% on your side is you, because of how insignificant your opinion is compared to the number of people who play Starcraft. man there are many bad BW players that are GOOD sc2 players... | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
how do you do doom drops or drop at all with 4+ transports? I have very very limited experience trying to do this but so far all of them always tend to try to drop in 1 spot and interrupt each other. TBH I agree about moving-shot... but I still need to test it myself before I will rage. I don't care about all of the other points because of what Aesop, Chill and NonY said and I am surprised you despise BattleCruiser, Carrier, Broodlord (isn't really bigger than Guardian) AND Ultralisk for being too big as if they aren't big in BW already. | ||
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decemvre1
Romania51 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:57 beetlelisk wrote: I guess this is a good thread to ask how do you do doom drops or drop at all with 4+ transports? I have very very limited experience trying to do this but so far all of them always tend to try to drop in 1 spot and interrupt each other. TBH I agree about moving-shot... but I still need to test it myself before I will rage. I don't care about all of the other points because of what Aesop, Chill and NonY said and I am surprised you despise BattleCruiser, Carrier, Broodlord (isn't really bigger than Guardian) AND Ultralisk for being too big as if they aren't big in BW already. the best way to drop while moving is to select 1 dropship at a time and click "drop-units" onto itself while its still moving. You have to do it very quickly though, the more dropships you have, the harder it is. | ||
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meteorskunk
Canada546 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:48 Re-Play- wrote: man there are many bad BW players that are GOOD sc2 players... That doesn't discredit nony's opinion. watching Nony's casting I see how he can spot it when a protoss could have won a battle if his control had been different. Things I still don't see. People are looking at this game like BW 1.5 instead of a fresh new rts. Yes a lot of the skills have become more intuitive, but blizzard did not intend for sc to ever be played at high apm. BW players began to improve mainly by increasing speed. This is not the way to improve right now. Thinking is. Its a a real time STRATEGY not a button pressing race(i still find use for the the control i learned from BW). The way i see it, is blizzard has made the learning curve less steep, but has not changed the game's essence. No you don't need to learn how to go to your gateways during battle and press z over all of them, but that is a very small thing. You still need timing, division of focus,creativity,foresight.accurate clicks. PS skilled micro =/= fun to watch imo. controlling scourge and muta is hard, watching zvz is not that fun a lot of the time. | ||
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KwarK
United States42259 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:23 Liquid`NonY wrote: Ah whatever. I just wrote 700 words explaining some shit but I was way too insulting during it. Here's the watered-down version: you don't understand StarCraft and you're bad. I'm guessing you aren't winning as many SC2 games as you would like and you can't figure out how to get an edge on your opponent. Not enough knowledge has trickled down from people with talent so your options are very limited. You have been spoiled by SC:BW. An enormous, absolutely huge, ridiculously large amount of effort has gone into making the play in SC:BW so spectacular. You expect it instantly from SC2. Thankfully, it's a different game. I suggest you put it aside for 5 years and then come back to it. Cya I got the same impression from his rant. The reason I asked his iccup rank was to find out if it was bad and then subsequently humilitate him with a low apm thrashing. Whining is the egos way of avoiding dealing with the difference between how good people think they are and how few games they win. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On May 06 2010 09:01 decemvre wrote: the best way to drop while moving is to select 1 dropship at a time and click "drop-units" onto itself while its still moving. You have to do it very quickly though, the more dropships you have, the harder it is. Yeah but is there no equivalent of (using magic boxes and) clicking unload on top of your transports so all of them unload at the same time? This is not only about dropping while moving them but also dropping with more transports at all - is cloning the only way it can be done? | ||
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Ursad0n
United States523 Posts
On May 06 2010 09:12 meteorskunk wrote: That doesn't discredit nony's opinion. watching Nony's casting I see how he can spot it when a protoss could have won a battle if his control had been different. Things I still don't see. People are looking at this game like BW 1.5 instead of a fresh new rts. Yes a lot of the skills have become more intuitive, but blizzard did not intend for sc to ever be played at high apm. BW players began to improve mainly by increasing speed. This is not the way to improve right now. Thinking is. Its a a real time STRATEGY not a button pressing race(i still find use for the the control i learned from BW). The way i see it, is blizzard has made the learning curve less steep, but has not changed the game's essence. No you don't need to learn how to go to your gateways during battle and press z over all of them, but that is a very small thing. You still need timing, division of focus,creativity,foresight.accurate clicks. PS skilled micro =/= fun to watch imo. controlling scourge and muta is hard, watching zvz is not that fun a lot of the time. This kid put into words what i wish i could. Thread is done now, this post wins. :D | ||
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