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I do not like Sc2. - Page 5

Blogs > IskatuMesk
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nTooMuch
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States127 Posts
May 03 2010 03:00 GMT
#81
the game isnt even out yet.
Hunter_Killers
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada23 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 03:23:16
May 03 2010 03:22 GMT
#82
I suppose to the beta isn't out yet either, the devs havn't shown much concern for getting down and dirty re-designing units that are causing problems because they can be massed to hell and back without repercussion.

Clans being held off till the first expansion? wat.

The editor's interface is probobly going to end up staying the way it is no doubt in my mind, maybe someone with alot of time can edit the XML files to redo the layout but I doubt you'll be able to add tabs that way to clearn it up.

TQ's successor is Grim Dawn, most of IronLore turned into Crate Entertainment

http://grimdawn.com/
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 04:13:23
May 03 2010 04:08 GMT
#83
On May 03 2010 11:41 Tom Phoenix wrote:

With the improved AI pathing, these two units would just be boring and overpowered.


Yeah, I get this, and that's why I was talking about the elements they represent rather than the units themselves. The Reaver represents High Risk High Reward, a unit that is powerful alone but when used in synergy and correctly it can be devastating. On the other hand it is exceptionally expensive and vulnerable and must be taken care of. About the only thing that comes close to that in sc2 right now is probably the Infestor because aids is so incredibly powerful when you get enough of them (see my commentary of Kolll vs TheLittleOne for mass aids drone carnage). The Raven is also somewhat high risk (they are fairly easy to snipe if the Terran is careless, and they often are) but not nearly as much as the slow-as-balls Reaver.

In many cases Colossus can tank-out enemy attacks and are amongst the most mobile units in the game, attack far faster, and are much less risky to lose as well as less costly.

The vulture represents tactical map control and geometric element value. Mines are its instrument of placing value in specific locations and altering the way the mapflow works through the unit's actions for both players. Thus, ridges in Heartbreak Ridge with mines on them present a greater hazard than mines out in an open field because of miss chance. In sc2 both things are gone - mines and miss chance. The ridges would have far less value in sc2 and for the most part would be largely ignored on the strategic level.

I think the Hellion has the potential to be a cool unit but it needs some utility to bring fear back into Terran mech.

I expect (or rather, I hope to GOD) that this is a limitation that will only be present in the beta, mostly because Blizzard expects people to be using the current version of the editor pretty much exclusively to design melee maps.


I fear that this is not specific to the beta. I would only hope that the sc2mapster editor comes to fruition and allows people like me to replace this editor, or that Blizzard starts listening to reason and making appropriate fixes.
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
May 03 2010 04:17 GMT
#84
Holy....

This blog definitely should have some sort of awesome post warning in the title, I almost missed it.

No real comments right now because I skimmed most of it, but I wanted to express my appreciation for what I did read. I've never been into modding myself but it's disappointing to hear that SC2 is so hard to work with.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
May 03 2010 06:10 GMT
#85
you write very well. I was never interested in modding games, so I've never heard of you before, but it seems like you've done some really impressive work over the years. It's incredible to me that people put so much work into modding this game.

That being said, I'm not sure I really agree with your post. I've barely glanced at the editor myself, so I don't know much about it, but it seems like your main complaint is that it's interface is bad. Don't you think you'll eventually get used to the bad interface, if you use it enough? Or, failing that, someone could program a better interface, like they did with starcraft.

With regards to gameplay- I dunno, it feels different, but I still really like this game. I do think it would be better if a lot of units (like the hellion) had faster acceleration, and weaker stats. It's still really fun, though, and it's hard to talk about what strategies will be used because people are still figuring it out. i don't think anyone has a firm grasp on SC2 strategy, yet.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
Hunter_Killers
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada23 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 06:42:25
May 03 2010 06:39 GMT
#86
Editors were made for SC1 because there wasn't really any alternative beyond hex editing if that was even possible, WC3 never had the same tools made for it because the editor could already do it regardless how annoying it may be and it will probobly be the same for SC2.

Removing high risk units and things like height advantage (/beatdeadhorse) etc to me is just minimizing the wiggle room for strategies to form.
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
May 03 2010 06:57 GMT
#87
Wc3's community really lacked the programmers able to make good tools in the first place. Only a few existed, including the Russian model editor mdlvis and one of the English model viewers. Unfortunately tools were few and far inbetween - the only model importer for warcraft 3 is an ancient plugin that only supports 3ds max 5.1 which doesn't work on vista or windows 7, making importing models impossible.
ltiy
Profile Joined April 2010
107 Posts
May 03 2010 12:57 GMT
#88
Wow, a worthwhile whining thread. Oxymoron...? mind = blown. Awesome post, sir. As a non-modder I'd have never realized these issues.
nTooMuch
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States127 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 02:42:53
May 03 2010 21:17 GMT
#89
everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, yours is just wrong.

User was permanently banned for this post and an overall poor posting history.
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 22:14:13
May 03 2010 21:33 GMT
#90
On May 04 2010 06:17 nTooMuch wrote:
everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, yours is just wrong.


Oh. Thanks for letting me know!

/e

I didn't properly answer Luddite's question so here it is;

I work on big projects. If the interface makes this more time-consuming and difficult than it needs to be then there is no enjoyment to be had. It becomes a tedious chore. I don't make public projects, I don't work for money, I work for my own enjoyment. If I'm getting no enjoyment I don't work. There's no way I'd even attempt a project of any scale in the current editor. Period. It's far too disorganized to have any kind of proper workflow.
EchOne
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2906 Posts
May 03 2010 22:29 GMT
#91
To those who understate the importance of interfaces in development:

In the IT world, there are entire businesses built around the creation of what basically amount to "interfaces": IDEs, or integrated development environments. How streamlined and accessible an IDE is holds just as much import as how robust or powerful in terms of features and functionality it is. If human beings are expected to work with an interface for hours and actually accomplish tasks / be productive, having said interface be easier to use can only be better for productivity.

Now the demand for tools in game modding may be relatively miniscule compared to that for commercial development, but that doesn't make concerns over interface any less valid.
面白くない世の中, 面白くすればいいさ
ironchef
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Canada1350 Posts
May 03 2010 23:58 GMT
#92

Interesting post, never really though about modding beyond ums maps and better pro maps.
I agree about the vultures though. It like.. kills the game for me, but i do feel those kind of compromises could make it less exciting than it could be. Still a bit of time,let's see what they can do!
“Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also.” - Marcus Aurelius
instantcold
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States38 Posts
May 04 2010 01:54 GMT
#93
Lol, I thought this was gonna be a kid ranting about how bad sc2 is because he got pwned. But damn this was one long post and whoa, No one can flame this with all the arguments he/she shows
Hey, You dont pwn me, I pwn me
HeadhunteR
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Argentina1258 Posts
May 04 2010 02:18 GMT
#94
Feature this its fucking amazing.. the best blog post against sc2 ive ever seen!!
in The Kong line forever
Sprite
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1015 Posts
May 04 2010 02:50 GMT
#95
Very well organized arguments! I agree with everything you said 100%.
Firebathero is still the best!
BalloonFight
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States2007 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 02:55:53
May 04 2010 02:51 GMT
#96
Most of the replies in this thread that are either suggesting or flat out saying that you are angry because Blizzard has not catered to a niche audience simply show that their writers have not read what you said.

Someone on the first page - Carnivoroussheep or something, I don't read TL very often so I don't know this posters with large post counts - said that (doesn't cater to niches blah blah). That's not at all the OP's point. Either you skimmed the post, didn't read it, or misinterpreted it.

To the OP: I am not at all involved in the mapping or modding community. I never did anything in the SC editor beyond putting 50 carriers vs 500 marines and seeing who won. This was a very interesting read and despite it's length flew by. Thanks for the input, I think that what you've brought up is certainly pertinent.

Blizzard fixing their interface and map editor will not change their sales, however, so I wouldn't expect them to care. As a large company bought by another even larger company, the dollar has become the overwhelming driving force. The days when Blizzard would respond to small communities are gone.

That's just the reality of it, it seems to me. As a large company with thousands of employees, they simply don't care about the little guy. While that's a complaint, it's also a realistic fact - why should they? Unless upper management cares on a personal level, then nothing is going to change.

This post:

On May 04 2010 07:29 EchOne wrote:
To those who understate the importance of interfaces in development:

In the IT world, there are entire businesses built around the creation of what basically amount to "interfaces": IDEs, or integrated development environments. How streamlined and accessible an IDE is holds just as much import as how robust or powerful in terms of features and functionality it is. If human beings are expected to work with an interface for hours and actually accomplish tasks / be productive, having said interface be easier to use can only be better for productivity.

Now the demand for tools in game modding may be relatively miniscule compared to that for commercial development, but that doesn't make concerns over interface any less valid.


is certainly accurate, but again, since this is regarding the map editor interface, I don't see Blizzard caring that much. There will be a large community of map makers, but it will be nothing compared to those who simply buy the game, play the single player, occasionally hop on to play whatever SC2's equivalent of FPM will be, and don't care.

Even if a map becomes extremely popular, such a DOTA was in WC3, it seems like people will simply work around the limitations or within them. I don't know much about mapping, as I said, so I am not informed when I make statements like that. I'm just going off of what you said about the limitations of War3's editor but the fact that DOTA still became so popular and big.

However, that post you made about CS originating as a mod, DOTA being a map yet being so huge, etc, makes me realize that perhaps my ignorance is causing me to underestimate the importance or size of the modding community. Maybe it is something that is large enough to have an economic impact and thus something that Blizzard will address. Regardless of whether that is the case, I can still say that I hope they do address it.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
May 04 2010 03:55 GMT
#97
I skimmed it and one thing I will agree with you entirely on is almost everything you mentioned about Battle.net 2.0
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
May 04 2010 06:38 GMT
#98
BalloonFight > Yes, this is the way of the industry. The only time I have ever been able to actually communicate with developers and work towards a goal was when the expansion Vyrium Uprising for Conquest: Frontier Wars was being worked on. Unfortunately it was never completed.
Slugbreath
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden201 Posts
May 04 2010 09:41 GMT
#99
I know nothing about modding and lack insight in SC2, so I can't say anything about if I believe you to be right or wrong, I will say that your article was very well written, interesting and that your mods looked impressive.
Folca
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
2235 Posts
May 05 2010 01:22 GMT
#100
Is there still a way to contact Blizzard of this issue?
I mean, I'm pretty sure you did, but what if Teamliquid was behind your back with these kinds of situations.. Not saying they will, but with your valid argument, you never know.
Dea : one time when he was playing vs the comps he asked me "how do I make that flying unit that makes the other stuff invisible" and I reply "ur playing terran zomg"
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