EPTI do not like Sc2. - Page 5
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nTooMuch
United States127 Posts
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Hunter_Killers
Canada23 Posts
Clans being held off till the first expansion? wat. The editor's interface is probobly going to end up staying the way it is no doubt in my mind, maybe someone with alot of time can edit the XML files to redo the layout but I doubt you'll be able to add tabs that way to clearn it up. TQ's successor is Grim Dawn, most of IronLore turned into Crate Entertainment http://grimdawn.com/ | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
On May 03 2010 11:41 Tom Phoenix wrote: With the improved AI pathing, these two units would just be boring and overpowered. Yeah, I get this, and that's why I was talking about the elements they represent rather than the units themselves. The Reaver represents High Risk High Reward, a unit that is powerful alone but when used in synergy and correctly it can be devastating. On the other hand it is exceptionally expensive and vulnerable and must be taken care of. About the only thing that comes close to that in sc2 right now is probably the Infestor because aids is so incredibly powerful when you get enough of them (see my commentary of Kolll vs TheLittleOne for mass aids drone carnage). The Raven is also somewhat high risk (they are fairly easy to snipe if the Terran is careless, and they often are) but not nearly as much as the slow-as-balls Reaver. In many cases Colossus can tank-out enemy attacks and are amongst the most mobile units in the game, attack far faster, and are much less risky to lose as well as less costly. The vulture represents tactical map control and geometric element value. Mines are its instrument of placing value in specific locations and altering the way the mapflow works through the unit's actions for both players. Thus, ridges in Heartbreak Ridge with mines on them present a greater hazard than mines out in an open field because of miss chance. In sc2 both things are gone - mines and miss chance. The ridges would have far less value in sc2 and for the most part would be largely ignored on the strategic level. I think the Hellion has the potential to be a cool unit but it needs some utility to bring fear back into Terran mech. I expect (or rather, I hope to GOD) that this is a limitation that will only be present in the beta, mostly because Blizzard expects people to be using the current version of the editor pretty much exclusively to design melee maps. I fear that this is not specific to the beta. I would only hope that the sc2mapster editor comes to fruition and allows people like me to replace this editor, or that Blizzard starts listening to reason and making appropriate fixes. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
This blog definitely should have some sort of awesome post warning in the title, I almost missed it. No real comments right now because I skimmed most of it, but I wanted to express my appreciation for what I did read. I've never been into modding myself but it's disappointing to hear that SC2 is so hard to work with. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
That being said, I'm not sure I really agree with your post. I've barely glanced at the editor myself, so I don't know much about it, but it seems like your main complaint is that it's interface is bad. Don't you think you'll eventually get used to the bad interface, if you use it enough? Or, failing that, someone could program a better interface, like they did with starcraft. With regards to gameplay- I dunno, it feels different, but I still really like this game. I do think it would be better if a lot of units (like the hellion) had faster acceleration, and weaker stats. It's still really fun, though, and it's hard to talk about what strategies will be used because people are still figuring it out. i don't think anyone has a firm grasp on SC2 strategy, yet. | ||
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Hunter_Killers
Canada23 Posts
Removing high risk units and things like height advantage (/beatdeadhorse) etc to me is just minimizing the wiggle room for strategies to form. | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
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ltiy
107 Posts
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nTooMuch
United States127 Posts
User was permanently banned for this post and an overall poor posting history. | ||
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:17 nTooMuch wrote: everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, yours is just wrong. Oh. Thanks for letting me know! /e I didn't properly answer Luddite's question so here it is; I work on big projects. If the interface makes this more time-consuming and difficult than it needs to be then there is no enjoyment to be had. It becomes a tedious chore. I don't make public projects, I don't work for money, I work for my own enjoyment. If I'm getting no enjoyment I don't work. There's no way I'd even attempt a project of any scale in the current editor. Period. It's far too disorganized to have any kind of proper workflow. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
In the IT world, there are entire businesses built around the creation of what basically amount to "interfaces": IDEs, or integrated development environments. How streamlined and accessible an IDE is holds just as much import as how robust or powerful in terms of features and functionality it is. If human beings are expected to work with an interface for hours and actually accomplish tasks / be productive, having said interface be easier to use can only be better for productivity. Now the demand for tools in game modding may be relatively miniscule compared to that for commercial development, but that doesn't make concerns over interface any less valid. | ||
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ironchef
Canada1350 Posts
Interesting post, never really though about modding beyond ums maps and better pro maps. I agree about the vultures though. It like.. kills the game for me, but i do feel those kind of compromises could make it less exciting than it could be. Still a bit of time,let's see what they can do! | ||
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instantcold
United States38 Posts
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
Someone on the first page - Carnivoroussheep or something, I don't read TL very often so I don't know this posters with large post counts - said that (doesn't cater to niches blah blah). That's not at all the OP's point. Either you skimmed the post, didn't read it, or misinterpreted it. To the OP: I am not at all involved in the mapping or modding community. I never did anything in the SC editor beyond putting 50 carriers vs 500 marines and seeing who won. This was a very interesting read and despite it's length flew by. Thanks for the input, I think that what you've brought up is certainly pertinent. Blizzard fixing their interface and map editor will not change their sales, however, so I wouldn't expect them to care. As a large company bought by another even larger company, the dollar has become the overwhelming driving force. The days when Blizzard would respond to small communities are gone. That's just the reality of it, it seems to me. As a large company with thousands of employees, they simply don't care about the little guy. While that's a complaint, it's also a realistic fact - why should they? Unless upper management cares on a personal level, then nothing is going to change. This post: On May 04 2010 07:29 EchOne wrote: To those who understate the importance of interfaces in development: In the IT world, there are entire businesses built around the creation of what basically amount to "interfaces": IDEs, or integrated development environments. How streamlined and accessible an IDE is holds just as much import as how robust or powerful in terms of features and functionality it is. If human beings are expected to work with an interface for hours and actually accomplish tasks / be productive, having said interface be easier to use can only be better for productivity. Now the demand for tools in game modding may be relatively miniscule compared to that for commercial development, but that doesn't make concerns over interface any less valid. is certainly accurate, but again, since this is regarding the map editor interface, I don't see Blizzard caring that much. There will be a large community of map makers, but it will be nothing compared to those who simply buy the game, play the single player, occasionally hop on to play whatever SC2's equivalent of FPM will be, and don't care. Even if a map becomes extremely popular, such a DOTA was in WC3, it seems like people will simply work around the limitations or within them. I don't know much about mapping, as I said, so I am not informed when I make statements like that. I'm just going off of what you said about the limitations of War3's editor but the fact that DOTA still became so popular and big. However, that post you made about CS originating as a mod, DOTA being a map yet being so huge, etc, makes me realize that perhaps my ignorance is causing me to underestimate the importance or size of the modding community. Maybe it is something that is large enough to have an economic impact and thus something that Blizzard will address. Regardless of whether that is the case, I can still say that I hope they do address it. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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IskatuMesk
Canada969 Posts
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Slugbreath
Sweden201 Posts
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Folca
2235 Posts
I mean, I'm pretty sure you did, but what if Teamliquid was behind your back with these kinds of situations.. Not saying they will, but with your valid argument, you never know. | ||
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