So I was taking the bus in San Francisco last weekend during the time when the high school and middle school students got off.
There were 3 asian students I'm guessing about 14-15, probably 8th grade or freshmen in high school. They were the typical trouble makers I guess since they were loud, and were using the word "fuck" and "shit" in every sentence as nouns, adjectives, verbs ect. They were annoying but I just ignored it since I know alot of young people are like that.
After a while, I saw them bullying a mentally retarded kid. They were spiting on him, pulling down his pants, and then this guy took out a gum that he was chewing and made the retarded kid chew it. What was even more disturbing was the other kids on the bus didn't do anything to stop the bullies, they were just observing and laughing at that poor kid. That really just made me sick to my stomach; I left the bus immediately on the next stop because I just couldn't bear the watch anymore.
That brings me back to my high school and middle school days; you always see people bullying others but no one ever does anything to stop them. The bullies are sick because they find messing with other people pleasurable but the bystanders are the same; they secretly find that funny as well but are too phony to admit it.
The incident on the bus made me wonder are most humans just sick that way? It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
After reevaluating, maybe I was a bit scared. I went to high school and middle school in San Francisco, and I know that they are a lot of teenage Asian gangs around. It was a Friday afternoon, and I really didn't want any trouble.
The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
That brings me back to my high school and middle school days; you always see people bullying others but no one ever does anything to stop them.
I don't know how old you are, but you should have done something to stop them. If you are too small/young, then just tell someone bigger on the bus to check it out. Hi this is Chill posting but I'm banned from this guy's blogs. I just wanted to say that I agree, but I've also felt that "diffusion of responsibility." I've heard a girl screaming from my apartment window but I just figure it's not a big deal or if it is someone closer will handle it. I heard a psych story where dozens of people in an apartment all heard a girl get murdered but they assumed someone else would call the cops or handle it.
On April 30 2010 04:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
Exactly my thoughts.
The disturbing thing is that you just got off at the next stop without doing anything.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote:It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote: The incident on the bus made me wonder are most humans just sick that way? It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
I too wonder why you didn't do anything. Your language makes me believe that you are old enough to deal with a bunch of 14 year olds. And since you made a blog about it it's obvious that you noticed that something's wrong there.
Because 95% of people are super selfish. (This includes most people in this thread who are not the OP, and probably me, unless we are extra special crazy awesome super moral exceptions, which is statistically unlikely.)
I know I've made a conscious effort to get involved in conflicts before precisely because I've talked about diffusion of responsibility a great deal. So I guess this blog post is conducive to that, just gotta be mindful of it.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote:What was even more disturbing was the other kids on the bus didn't do anything to stop the bullies
I read up to here and instantly thought "did YOU do anything?" And read on to the bottom to see that you didn't.
By the way, why is it necessary to point out that the kids were Asian? If they were white (or whatever ethnicity you are) kids would you have said "15 year old white kids?" I doubt it.
[QUOTE]On April 30 2010 04:22 IntoTheWow wrote: [quote]
I heard a psych story where dozens of people in an apartment all heard a girl get murdered but they assumed someone else would call the cops or handle it.
The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience of walking or waiting let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you internet tough guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote:What was even more disturbing was the other kids on the bus didn't do anything to stop the bullies
I read up to here and instantly thought "did YOU do anything?" And read on to the bottom to see that you didn't.
By the way, why is it necessary to point out that the kids were Asian? If they were white (or whatever ethnicity you are) kids would you have said "15 year old white kids?" I doubt it.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
I don't believe that. Do you really think that 99% of people wouldn't at least tell the kids to shut the hell up and leave him alone? No one's saying he had to be a hero and beat up the guys (Kick Ass anyone?) but a lot of the time all you have to do is say something. If they gave him shit after that he could easily have just gotten off the bus or went back to his seat.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
I don't believe that. Do you really think that 99% of people wouldn't at least tell the kids to shut the hell up and leave him alone? No one's saying he had to be a hero and beat up the guys (Kick Ass anyone?) but a lot of the time all you have to do is say something. If they gave him shit after that he could easily have just gotten off the bus or went back to his seat.
Really? He was on a bus in San Fransico during the the weekend with students on vactaion. I think it would be a pretty good guess that a shit ton of people were on that bus. And since no one did shit according to him, I think 99% is a good estimate.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
I don't believe that. Do you really think that 99% of people wouldn't at least tell the kids to shut the hell up and leave him alone? No one's saying he had to be a hero and beat up the guys (Kick Ass anyone?) but a lot of the time all you have to do is say something. If they gave him shit after that he could easily have just gotten off the bus or went back to his seat.
Yes. See also: any of the Wikipedia articles that have been linked in the thread, including a case case where nobody did anything over a murder that lasted an entire hour. So yes, if people can't be arsed to call the cops for blatant murder, I can definitely how they wouldn't go out of their way to deal with bullies on a bus.
i used to bully a kid when i was in 3rd grade..he told on me and I got beat up so bad by 5th grade home room teacher...ever since then I'm a really good kid...-_-; bullying is bad but most cases if you stand up to it the bullies will back down..at least for me..if the other kid showed some balls..i would stopped bullying... anyways bullying is bad
On April 30 2010 04:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
On April 30 2010 04:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
Exactly my thoughts.
The disturbing thing is that you just got off at the next stop without doing anything.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote: The incident on the bus made me wonder are most humans just sick that way? It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
I too wonder why you didn't do anything. Your language makes me believe that you are old enough to deal with a bunch of 14 year olds. And since you made a blog about it it's obvious that you noticed that something's wrong there.
On April 30 2010 04:40 exalted wrote: yeah why didn't you step in you fucking fatass OP
I am 99% positive you guys would have done the exact same thing as the OP. Don't think so highly of yourselves.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
I don't believe that. Do you really think that 99% of people wouldn't at least tell the kids to shut the hell up and leave him alone? No one's saying he had to be a hero and beat up the guys (Kick Ass anyone?) but a lot of the time all you have to do is say something. If they gave him shit after that he could easily have just gotten off the bus or went back to his seat.
Really? He was on a bus in San Fransico during the the weekend with students on vactaion. I think it would be a pretty good guess that a shit ton of people were on that bus. And since no one did shit according to him, I think 99% is a good estimate.
the OP made it sound like he was quite a bit older than some highschool freshman, and so it's really not that hard to get some kids to stop doing something on a public bus.
but i guess that depends on how big you are and how you carry yourself, because they sound like kids that would talk back.
if the OP was the adult on the bus, he should of done something since he was obviously extremely bothered by it. but since he didn't, i'm going to he assume he didn't think he was in the position to have any effect on the kids.
nothing wrong with that either, don't get into battles you can't win. i probably wouldn't have been able to do anything either.
On April 30 2010 04:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
On April 30 2010 04:22 il0seonpurpose wrote: The question is why didn't you do anything about it? You go on blaming other people asking if the world is still humane and you did the exact same thing...
Exactly my thoughts.
The disturbing thing is that you just got off at the next stop without doing anything.
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote: The incident on the bus made me wonder are most humans just sick that way? It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
I too wonder why you didn't do anything. Your language makes me believe that you are old enough to deal with a bunch of 14 year olds. And since you made a blog about it it's obvious that you noticed that something's wrong there.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you guys.
He did the next best thing by not being a part of it and not being a bystander. I mean, who on the bus can he tell that will actually do shit? Everyone knows this is happening and not doing a thing.
The best thing would be to stand up for the kid but you know what, you can expect from people to be good, but you can't expect everyone to be heroes.
I don't believe that. Do you really think that 99% of people wouldn't at least tell the kids to shut the hell up and leave him alone? No one's saying he had to be a hero and beat up the guys (Kick Ass anyone?) but a lot of the time all you have to do is say something. If they gave him shit after that he could easily have just gotten off the bus or went back to his seat.
Yes. See also: any of the Wikipedia articles that have been linked in the thread, including a case case where nobody did anything over a murder that lasted an entire hour. So yes, if people can't be arsed to call the cops for blatant murder, I can definitely how they wouldn't go out of their way to deal with bullies on a bus.
I know about bystander nonintervention since we studied these cases in class. But this is different. In Kitty Genovese's cases, not everyone realized what actually was going on, and even if they did, some thought that someone else had called for help. And while no one went to help her, there were calls to the police and someone did shout at the attacker. Did you read the article?
It's a lot different on the bus, where the perpetrators are just kids, everyone knows exactly what's going on, and they know that no one has stepped up. In fact, if we're going to talk about disgusting, this statement is itself pretty bad.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
Are you really saying that it's disgusting that a lot of people know and stated what the right course of action should have been, whether or not they had the balls to carry it out themselves? It's a lot better than saying that since the majority of people would do nothing, the right course of action is to do nothing.
Are you really saying that it's disgusting that a lot of people know and stated what the right course of action should have been, whether or not they had the balls to carry it out themselves? It's a lot better than saying that since the majority of people would do nothing, the right course of action is to do nothing.
Ahaha no, they were not merely stating what is right. First of all, they were condemning OP for not doing something they couldn't do themselves. Its like telling off a stranger for not being able to be a hero and stop a house from burning down when they themselves can't do shit about the house burning down. The hypocricy is what is disgusting.
Now lets assume you did say something to those 3 guys. Chances are, those 3 guys, being the trashy douches they are, are gonna come and hassle you unless you are fucking intimidatingly ripped or have friends backing you up. So now what? You gonna fight and kick their ass? Beating 3 pre-teen kids in America is gonna get your ass sued by their parents(who prbably spoil them) because that is just how America is. Like, you might get fired for stopping a robbery in America.
So you get up and leave after they hassle the kid, now those 3 guys are gonna just hassle the victim even more to take out fustration unless more than 1 person (fat chance of that happening), or 1 powerful person (in status, ex. cop, or in strength), stood up for that kid.
There is probably a right way to do things without getting your own ass fried, but it is hard to think of it on the spot. I can't even think of a way right now without escalating the issue.
If you don't think you can handle it, ask someone to help you out or ask the bus driver. I'm not saying that I personally would have been a hero or even that I would have stood up to them, but there are definitely right courses of action and doing nothing is not one of them.
you got sick of it so you just left? lol your worse than the people giggling at him. i dont understand your point if you dont even try and do what you are advocating.
On April 30 2010 05:08 Kralic wrote: Where I live, stopping some "kids" on a bus usually tends to them pulling a knife and taking some swings at you with it.
This is sad but true. Kids these days are packing more weapons (crude or sophisticated) than they deserve to be. But the bottom line here is that this kind of aggression is illegal and police will happily escort punks like this away.
If you're on a bus though and someone threatens you - don't initiate a fight, just back up to the driver, tell them there is a disturbance on their bus and to radio for a police car and that you're committing a citizen's arrest for assault. You have ample witnesses, your assailants have no choice but to stay and get arrested or gtfo, and if you should get hurt you're guaranteed immediate attention. If they're carrying any concealed weapon at all, chances are very good that they're going to get in a shitload of trouble when they're patted down.
Furthermore, announcing to witnesses in advance that it's a citizen's arrest implies any fight you engage in is an act of self-defense, provided your injury to them is proportional to their threat and not excessive. This means legal protection that you wouldn't have if you'd just straight up gotten into a brawl and both of you were apprehended - they could say you started it, etc.
I wouldn't try this for petty matters if gang violence is out of control where you live or if you don't trust law enforcement to take the matter seriously (depends on the zeal of your police force, race relations, overall crime level), but these kids sound like schoolyard peons. Should be safe in most U.S. cities though.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience of walking or waiting let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you internet tough guys.
Dude, I'm the first person to say I'm not a tough guy. I'm also scared to hell of people my age in case they have knives or are better at fighting or are very violent. But ffs, 15 year old Asian kids? Who the fuck is scared of 15 year old Asians? I'd have epic beard manned them.
Yeah, the "bystander" effect has a lot to do with it I'm afraid. So many people don't want to get involved and figure others will take care of it eventually or that will get sorted out.
Honestly though, shit like what these kids were doing just sickens me, especially since this kid was mentally retarded. Its a good thing for these kids that they weren't anywhere near me; I'd honestly have to really restrain myself from beating the living shit out of them. This kinda goes beyond normal bullying type stuff like name calling and shoving, and is some really debasing and sickening stuff that's a serious affront to someone dignity.
On April 30 2010 05:11 starfries wrote: If you don't think you can handle it, ask someone to help you out or ask the bus driver. I'm not saying that I personally would have been a hero or even that I would have stood up to them, but there are definitely right courses of action and doing nothing is not one of them.
For once, you are probably right. Making the bus driver do his job and kick those 3 off the bus would probably have been the best course of action without escalating the issue. That is of course, assuming he had that power. Where I live, the bus driver has every right to kick you off for breaking bus rules. But by using that power, they could be potentially risking their jobs. That is America folks.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience of walking or waiting let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you internet tough guys.
Dude, I'm the first person to say I'm not a tough guy. I'm also scared to hell of people my age in case they have knives or are better at fighting or are very violent. But ffs, 15 year old Asian kids? Who the fuck is scared of 15 year old Asians? I'd have epic beard manned them.
Epic beard man had a video posted up on youtube to prove he was acting in self defence, fought against a grown man, and he had mental problems so he(or his family) could defend him in court. If you "epic bearded" 3 kids, even in defence of someone else from being harassed(not allowed by law), good luck in court kid. I will send you donations to help pay for lawyer if you ask. But you are gonna need that luck a lot more.
For once, you are probably right. Making the bus driver do his job and kick those 3 off the bus would probably have been the best course of action without escalating the issue. That is of course, assuming he had that power. Where I live, the bus driver has every right to kick you off for breaking bus rules. But by using that power, they could be potentially risking their jobs. That is America folks.
Thing is, if the bus driver heard any of this, you'd think he'd be pretty bothered by it as well, and once one person is already the catalyst for getting it to stop, its significantly easier for others to follow suit.
I am really quite surprised that so many people support the OP's actions. Any rational person should have voiced a concern. Perhaps it's a kink in American society, I know you guys do love to disassociate responsibility...but why not be the one person who stands up for the weak and defenceless?
Plus, I reiterate. These are 15 year old Asian kids. What the fuck. I'm more afraid of my shadow.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience of walking or waiting let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you internet tough guys.
Dude, I'm the first person to say I'm not a tough guy. I'm also scared to hell of people my age in case they have knives or are better at fighting or are very violent. But ffs, 15 year old Asian kids? Who the fuck is scared of 15 year old Asians? I'd have epic beard manned them.
This post drips with racism. Take it elsewhere, please.
To the rest of the thread: Sad that so many people are ruled by fear, but understandable as well. Possibly being stabbed for the sake of a retard you don't know doesn't sound like a very good idea.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
What??? Do something??? Do what? Of all the people on that bus that stayed on, are they all automatically assholes?
Do what? How you gonna stop them, force? Words (lol)? Altough talking to the bus driver is my best bet, but it is easy to forget the driver can do anything.
He did do something, he got off and chose not to be a part of it. Not the best choice, but a 100 times better than the ones who stayed and did nothing.
What??? Do something??? Do what? Of all the people on that bus that stayed on, are they all automatically assholes?
Do what?
There are plenty of things you can do. First off, just tell them to stop. If they ignore you then you can do like someone said and get the bus driver to assist or simply make them stop. Were talking three 14 year old kids here, first off, you can probably beat the shit out of them to begin with. Then again, seeing as we are talking about middle school bullies if you speak firmly and posture yourself well they'll probably just back down anyway since most people that bully at that age are extremely insecure.
Yeah, honestly with these type of kids aggressive words and posture is usually more than enough to make them back down.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
What??? Do something??? Do what? Of all the people on that bus that stayed on, are they all automatically assholes?
Do what? How you gonna stop them, force? Words (lol)? He did do something, he got off and chose not to be a part of it. Not the best choice, but a 100 times better than the ones who stayed and did nothing.
They may not ALL be assholes, but they're all afraid of little kids. Hell most humans(at least americans) are freaked out by any sort of interaction they aren't used to.
For the argument if they had a knife or any other weapon, you think first of all a 15 yo kid knows how to use a knife properly? just smack the shit out of them, they'll just cry and run away.
A punishment for a wrongdoing is far better delivered when instead of someone else making note of it, you yourself come to its realization.
As we speak, the punishment in those kids is dwelling within them in the form of a time bomb; when the day comes in which they remember every second they gave torture to that poor and defenseless child whilst their minds get utterly fulfilled with the contemplation of their unnoticed immorality.
You, my friend, can’t deliver such a blow with a simple, physical halting action against them.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
What??? Do something??? Do what? Of all the people on that bus that stayed on, are they all automatically assholes?
Do what? How you gonna stop them, force? Words (lol)? Altough talking to the bus driver is my best bet, but it is easy to forget the driver can do anything.
He did do something, he got off and chose not to be a part of it. Not the best choice, but a 100 times better than the ones who stayed and did nothing.
Explain.
This is an absolutely idiotic thing to say. Explain how removing oneself from the scene is better than staying. The only reason to do so is to remove culpability or because one is aware that it is wrong but too chickenshit to do anything about it.
That's what having morals is. It's not doing something only when you're not feeling to pussy to do something. It's doing it regardless.
Sure, most of the people in this thread wouldn't do anything. That doesn't mean its right, nor that it's wrong to say that doing something is better than not doing something.
Inaction of the masses is not justification for it. You're using your own stupid argument about the majority in two completely different ways.
People in this thread making tons of conjectures like how full the bus was, whether the kids had knives, etc, things that nobody but the OP is in the circumstances to address are in no position to come to any conclusions.
Maybe if they had knives or guns, then yes, stay back. Maybe if you're a giant pussy and you are afraid that 3 15 year olds will mob you and you're scared, stay back. Nobody is going to hold it against you - you're scared, most people would be.
It doesn't mean it was the "correct" thing to do, only the "safe" thing. Who says safety = correctness?
What would I do? I would stop them. Yes, because I'm not a bitch, and I'm not going to watch some faggot bullies pick on a defenseless mentally retarded person. Would I back off if they pulled a knife on me, or a gun? Yea, probably, almost certainly. But I wouldn't do nothing because I was afraid they MIGHT have one. I would fucking find out, because this kind of bullying is one of the worst things humans can do.
Again, being scared of doing the right thing does not make doing nothing somehow now the right thing. It just means you are scared. Is there something wrong with being scared? Not really. But let's not paint it as something else. Is it the most rational, logical, utilitarian, self-serving thing to do? Yes, doing nothing will almost always fit those requirements.
On April 30 2010 05:46 EmeraldSparks wrote: @ everyone who thinks that you can "kick the asses of" three teenagers with knives:
Really?
Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
You, my friend, can’t deliver such a blow with a simple, physical halting action against them.
Lol, but you can help out the person that's being bullied. Its not so much about punishing the bullies as it is about putting an end to their pathetic behavior.
On April 30 2010 04:45 lone_hydra wrote: The disgusting thing I find here is how posters call OP out for something 99% of them would have done.
No in fact, I am pretty sure 99% of you wouldn't even have got off the bus because of the inconvience of walking or waiting let alone reflect so hard on yourself afterwards. So screw you internet tough guys.
Dude, I'm the first person to say I'm not a tough guy. I'm also scared to hell of people my age in case they have knives or are better at fighting or are very violent. But ffs, 15 year old Asian kids? Who the fuck is scared of 15 year old Asians? I'd have epic beard manned them.
This post drips with racism. Take it elsewhere, please.
To the rest of the thread: Sad that so many people are ruled by fear, but understandable as well. Possibly being stabbed for the sake of a retard you don't know doesn't sound like a very good idea.
Racism? Really? Is it really racist to say that Asians are on average smaller and less physically imposing than whites and blacks? And that 15 year old kids are on average smaller and less physically imposing than 18 year olds? Perhaps I should have emphasised the age, because that is of course more of a factor. But if you gave 100 people the choice:
'hey, a magic wizard says you have to fight a human to the death with your bare hands. You get to choose the race- white black or asian, which do you choose?'
The teenagers didn't have knives, I don't even know how knives got into this. Its highly unlikely that they would have knives in the first place; I can't say I know many middle schoolers packing knives, in fact, I can't say I know any.
Even if they did pull a knife on you, if you act tough and unconcerned they will still probably back down. You probably wouldn't want to rush in and do something, but you can certainly talk and keep them occupied. Plus, if they pulled a knife, the bus driver would get involved as well, and they get kicked right off the bus.
You, my friend, can’t deliver such a blow with a simple, physical halting action against them.
Lol, but you can help out the person that's being bullied. Its not so much about punishing the bullies as it is about putting an end to their pathetic behavior.
But helping the person that's getting bullied won't put an end to the bullies from bullying that person again, especially then, when you’ve given them yet another incentive to bully the kid given the human being has the tendency to break what shouldn’t be broken. So next time they bull the kid they won’t do it only to put the kid to shame, but you as well (in their minds) for not being there to help him again.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
What??? Do something??? Do what? Of all the people on that bus that stayed on, are they all automatically assholes?
Do what? How you gonna stop them, force? Words (lol)? Altough talking to the bus driver is my best bet, but it is easy to forget the driver can do anything.
He did do something, he got off and chose not to be a part of it. Not the best choice, but a 100 times better than the ones who stayed and did nothing.
Explain.
This is an absolutely idiotic thing to say. Explain how removing oneself from the scene is better than staying. The only reason to do so is to remove culpability or because one is aware that it is wrong but too chickenshit to do anything about it.
That's what having morals is. It's not doing something only when you're not feeling to pussy to do something. It's doing it regardless.
Sure, most of the people in this thread wouldn't do anything. That doesn't mean its right, nor that it's wrong to say that doing something is better than not doing something.
Inaction of the masses is not justification for it. You're using your own stupid argument about the majority in two completely different ways.
People in this thread making tons of conjectures like how full the bus was, whether the kids had knives, etc, things that nobody but the OP is in the circumstances to address are in no position to come to any conclusions.
Maybe if they had knives or guns, then yes, stay back. Maybe if you're a giant pussy and you are afraid that 3 15 year olds will mob you and you're scared, stay back. Nobody is going to hold it against you - you're scared, most people would be.
It doesn't mean it was the "correct" thing to do, only the "safe" thing. Who says safety = correctness?
What would I do? I would stop them. Yes, because I'm not a bitch, and I'm not going to watch some faggot bullies pick on a defenseless mentally retarded person. Would I back off if they pulled a knife on me, or a gun? Yea, probably, almost certainly. But I wouldn't do nothing because I was afraid they MIGHT have one. I would fucking find out, because this kind of bullying is one of the worst things humans can do.
Again, being scared of doing the right thing does not make doing nothing somehow now the right thing. It just means you are scared. Is there something wrong with being scared? Not really. But let's not paint it as something else. Is it the most rational, logical, utilitarian, self-serving thing to do? Yes, doing nothing will almost always fit those requirements.
On April 30 2010 05:46 EmeraldSparks wrote: @ everyone who thinks that you can "kick the asses of" three teenagers with knives:
Really?
Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
Thank you, same here.
Lone_hydra has been so wrong in this thread its unbelievable. I can't believe you wouldn't say ANYTHING -_-.
To be totally honest, I guess i was a bit scare to help. I went to high school and middle school in San Francisco and I know that there are a lot of teenage asian gangs around. It was a Friday afternoon, and I guess I just didn't want any trouble in case they were part of a gang.
If you were really that much of a pussy to get physical with a couple asian teenagers, at least you could've shouted something out loud to get some attention on them and maybe they'd get shat on by some old men with beards ;-]
when you’ve given them yet another incentive to bully the kid given the human being has the tendency to break what shouldn’t be broken.
Huh? The kid is mentally retarded, any possible notions of being broken kinda go out the window in that situation.
So next time they bull the kid they won’t do it only to put the kid to shame, but you as well (in their minds) for not being there to help him again.
I'm sorry but I don't understand that line of thought at all, I don't think anybody bullies someone, has someone stop it, and then when they bully him again are thinking or feeling that they are putting the person that stopped them the first time to shame. And yes, obviously because you stop them once, doesn't mean you will be able to stop them again, but hey you prevented that kids misery for a while, doing what you could at the time; and that's worth something.
On April 30 2010 05:45 BalloonFight wrote: Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
if you had read the thread you would have found a poster talking about how fifteen year old asians with knives ain't shit
So next time they bull the kid they won’t do it only to put the kid to shame, but you as well (in their minds) for not being there to help him again.
I'm sorry but I don't understand that line of thought at all, I don't think anybody bullies someone, has someone stop it, and then when they bully him again are thinking or feeling that they are putting the person that stopped them the first time to shame. And yes, obviously because you stop them once, doesn't mean you will be able to stop them again, but hey you prevented that kids misery for a while, doing what you could at the time; and that's worth something.
With break what shouldn't be broken I was talking about moral rules, not the kid.
With that second quote I was making the point that the bullies will now have more incentive to bully the kid again.
The obvious solution to this would be to call in someone they are more afraid to "put to shame," namely the police.
On April 30 2010 05:54 SirIsaacNewton wrote: To be totally honest, I guess i was a bit scare to help. I went to high school and middle school in San Francisco and I know that there are a lot of teenage asian gangs around. It was a Friday afternoon, and I guess I just didn't want any trouble in case they were part of a gang.
No one can really blame you. Everyone know how strong the bystander effect and diffusion of responsibility is, if not by name, and a little bit of fear makes it easy to let someone else do it. It's understandable, maybe even excusable. But I know you know what the right thing to do is. I hope next time this happens, you ask yourself: if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
I added to a list of reasons as to why he might have not interfered with them, due to the fact where I live most "kids" do infact carry knives and usually trying to interfere with what they are doing leads to them pulling a knife on you. Sorry for derailing the thread .
Also To those who don't think teens know how to use a knife, keep on living in your world.
It is really not worth the trouble of becoming involved. Good Samaritanism is certainly not obligated after all.
It's worth it even looking at it from a completely selfish perspective. Hearing that kind of stuff on a bus ride would make me incredibly bothered and angry and ruin the quality of the bus ride; fixing this problem would make my bus ride better. It doesn't even take that much "trouble" to tell a couple middle school kids off.
Also To those who don't think teens know how to use a knife, keep on living in your world.
Depends on were your from, I come from a small, fairly well to do town in Colorado and I assure you, most middle school kids don't have a clue how to use a knife, or have a clue how to fight. Yeah, if you come from somewhere where gangs/violence are much more prevalent then yeah plenty of kids are going to know how to fight and use a knife. I can see myself getting in trouble someone day because of where I come from, telling someone off from doing something that I find cruel only to have them pull a knife or a gun on me.
@OP - If were talking about a strong potential for these to be gang associated kids that would have weapons and not be your typical insecure middle schooler, then yeah I would certainly have to think twice before getting involved.
You don't need to be a tough guy to call the police when you see something illegal. Police get called for lesser disturbances, and if these kids start a fight or are carrying weapons of any sort, they're in deep shit. Added lolz if they're carrying drugs or aren't citizens.
You gotta bring down the hammer of justice and don't let shit like this happen unpunished.
It is really not worth the trouble of becoming involved. Good Samaritanism is certainly not obligated after all.
It's worth it even looking at it from a completely selfish perspective. Hearing that kind of stuff on a bus ride would make me incredibly bothered and angry and ruin the quality of the bus ride; fixing this problem would make my bus ride better. It doesn't even take that much "trouble" to tell a couple middle school kids off.
@OP - If were talking about a strong potential for these to be gang associated kids that would have weapons and not be your typical insecure middle schooler, then yeah I would certainly have to think twice before getting involved.
Perhaps on your utility curve this would be so; however, that is hardly universal.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
Oh cut it iNc. You're a big guy, you can intimidate others or you can fight them. You can do something.
Everyone shouting at the OP just keep your pants on, it's good to do something only when you are able to do something. When you see a fight like that or some people bullying someone, you need to realize that if you're going to get involved it HAS A BIG CHANCE of resuming to a fight. So you have to be prepared to fight them. If you're simply not able to, don't do it because it simply won't help anyone, you'll get ass kicked and said guy will continue to get bullied.
The idea is to only interfere and stop bullying/unfair fights when you can actually do something if it turns bad. You're just being naive if you think that just acting brave and telling people to stop will make them stop it unless you have the power to enforce that... with FORCE.
Don't take more than you can handle just because it sounds or looks good. Bravery is good only when it's backed-up by something. If the guy has a knife you may get to be a dead hero and i don't know who's going to be helped by that.
And i like how everyone here thinks he can kick the crap out of three 15 year old teenagers. Unless you're trained or really big, 1v3 with them isn't easy at all.
America sure seems to be a fucked up place when it is safe to assume that any 14 year old could be carrying a knife with him and would use it too if he isn't allowed to do as he pleases.
It's very easy to lampoon the OP for not intervening in the situation. But I'm sure the majority of the posters on this thread would've done the exact same thing. The other day I was walking around downtown when I heard this ruckus. A combination of running feet, someone yelling. And I looked and two store owners were holding two younger guys by the arm. I heard them mumble, "Bro, we just don't have money man, we don't have money." But I just walked past them without blinking an eye. I should've probably stayed there to help them sort it out, or something... I had nothing better to do.
It reminds me a lot of this show. It's called "What would you do?". The general public is put to test, with these little moral dilemmas such as mine and the OPs. Will they act? What will they do? What would you do?
The idea is to only interfere and stop bullying/unfair fights when you can actually do something if it turns bad. You're just being naive if you think that just acting brave and telling people to stop will make them stop it unless you have the power to enforce that... with FORCE.
Depends on the person. If the case of a typical middle school bully, it will absolutely stop something. They are very insecure and one of the common reasons they pick on other people is because it makes them feel secure or confident. Most bullies absolutely do not want confrontation or the possibility of an actual fight. When you walk in there and talk aggressively with strong body language they'll not want to risk getting into a fight with you. Yeah, there are three of them, but individually each one is thinking they could get the bad end of the bargain if they fight you. If they aren't utterly confident in their ability to kick your ass, and you walk in like your completely certain they will get the shit beaten out of the if they fuck with you, then they will typically back down.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
Oh cut it iNc. You're a big guy, you can intimidate others or you can fight them. You can do something.
Everyone shouting at the OP just keep your pants on, it's good to do something only when you are able to do something. When you see a fight like that or some people bullying someone, you need to realize that if you're going to get involved it HAS A BIG CHANCE of resuming to a fight. So you have to be prepared to fight them. If you're simply not able to, don't do it because it simply won't help anyone, you'll get ass kicked and said guy will continue to get bullied.
The idea is to only interfere and stop bullying/unfair fights when you can actually do something if it turns bad. You're just being naive if you think that just acting brave and telling people to stop will make them stop it unless you have the power to enforce that... with FORCE.
Don't take more than you can handle just because it sounds or looks good. Bravery is good only when it's backed-up by something. If the guy has a knife you may get to be a dead hero and i don't know who's going to be helped by that.
And i like how everyone here thinks he can kick the crap out of three 15 year old teenagers. Unless you're trained or really big, 1v3 with them isn't easy at all.
No one expects you to take on 3 guys and win. So what if inc can beat up the whole bus if he has to, and I can kick one guy in the shins before I go down. Maybe the kid has a knife, or maybe they all have guns. If there wasn't a risk, it wouldn't be brave. Just because there's a chance things might go wrong doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. I'll say it again:
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
So you have to be prepared to fight them. If you're simply not able to, don't do it because it simply won't help anyone, you'll get ass kicked and said guy will continue to get bullied.
The idea is to only interfere and stop bullying/unfair fights when you can actually do something if it turns bad. You're just being naive if you think that just acting brave and telling people to stop will make them stop it unless you have the power to enforce that... with FORCE.
Your signature quotes Gandhi, a brave man who acted in ways you apparently do not understand. You are a hypocrite and a pussy.
On April 30 2010 06:13 Warrior Madness wrote: It reminds me a lot of this show. It's called "What would you do?". The general public is put to test, with these little moral dilemmas such as mine and the OPs. Will they act? What will they do? What would you do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnbj5Bc_VWo&feature=related
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote:It also made me wonder why didn't I do anything to stop the bullies, I was a bystander as well. Maybe because I thought that someone else would do it, or maybe because I am a hypocrite as well.
Answer to your question, yes you should have done something. I'm only 160 and 6feet tall and I've interfered multiple times when someone was getting picked on.
On April 30 2010 06:07 EmeraldSparks wrote: "Doesn't maximize my own utility" is not a good moral argument against anything.
People uphold their morals precisely because it gives them utility in doing so. Morality is little more than an arbitrary set of rules that individuals have that when followed give said individuals utility.
On April 30 2010 06:07 EmeraldSparks wrote: "Doesn't maximize my own utility" is not a good moral argument against anything.
People uphold their morals precisely because it gives them utility in doing so. Morality is little more than an arbitrary set of rules that individuals have that when followed give said individuals utility.
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
I'd rather have the guys keep making fun of me than having another guy get beat down because of trying to help me. If he CAN help me, that's obviously what he should do, but if he can't i don't see the point in how him getting beat up can help me.
I quote Gandhi, i admire Gandhi, i am not Gandhi, i could never be like Gandhi.
On April 30 2010 05:45 BalloonFight wrote: Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
if you had read the thread you would have found a poster talking about how fifteen year old asians with knives ain't shit
but you didn't
what a shame
sup brah
I think you might have some difficulty coming to grips with some of the things being said in this thread. Honestly, there's really no point in replying to someone so profoundly proud of their own inability to read something in its entirety before they reply. But I'm doing it anyways, because I'm bored waiting for a class to begin.
You do realize that your post about maximizing one's own utility being a poor moral argument, which I assume we are using in the Lockean sense, is completely at odds with your previous posts about not trying to take on kids with knives (who were made up by some other poster, and whose stupidity you have chosen to perpetuate).
That's all, class is starting, I don't feel like explaining.
people flipping out about knives and shit, you dont have to escalate to that level at all to interfere. You dont have to ask aggressively to stop someone bullying. If they DO decide to escalate, then theres still plenty of time to back down. Or you can go around asking five or six people to back you up before you confront them, and make it understood if things go south you all split, and then have everyone nod/look at them when you say "we dont agree with what you are doing, please stop." Or since its a bus scenario, you can have the driver pull over and refuse to keep going until shenanigans stop.
The thing is, it doesn't matter what you do as long as you tried and can live with yourself without regrets. Forget about the fucking abstract foggy questions of where morality comes from and arguments of effect, These arguments are just people trying to justify their cowardice. it takes two seconds to ask yourself in the moment, "if i look back at my life, will i be proud of this moment/will i be ashamed of this moment/do i give a shit at all?"
and since you gave enough of a shit to reflect upon it and write a blog about it, you should have done something. Keep the lesson in mind, and in the future when you see something similar again, you can make sure you won't regret the choice.
On April 30 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i realize you understand you were a bystander..
I know others have said it before...
But fuck you dude.
Completely defenseless person gets molested by a group of children and you do nothing? Learn from this blog/experience: DO SOMETHING.
Oh cut it iNc. You're a big guy, you can intimidate others or you can fight them. You can do something.
Everyone shouting at the OP just keep your pants on, it's good to do something only when you are able to do something. When you see a fight like that or some people bullying someone, you need to realize that if you're going to get involved it HAS A BIG CHANCE of resuming to a fight. So you have to be prepared to fight them. If you're simply not able to, don't do it because it simply won't help anyone, you'll get ass kicked and said guy will continue to get bullied.
The idea is to only interfere and stop bullying/unfair fights when you can actually do something if it turns bad. You're just being naive if you think that just acting brave and telling people to stop will make them stop it unless you have the power to enforce that... with FORCE.
Don't take more than you can handle just because it sounds or looks good. Bravery is good only when it's backed-up by something. If the guy has a knife you may get to be a dead hero and i don't know who's going to be helped by that.
And i like how everyone here thinks he can kick the crap out of three 15 year old teenagers. Unless you're trained or really big, 1v3 with them isn't easy at all.
No one expects you to take on 3 guys and win. So what if inc can beat up the whole bus if he has to, and I can kick one guy in the shins before I go down. Maybe the kid has a knife, or maybe they all have guns. If there wasn't a risk, it wouldn't be brave. Just because there's a chance things might go wrong doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. I'll say it again:
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
i can guarantee i'm the skinniest palest kid you'll ever see
but OP's gotta buck up. i mean come on, there's some part of a man that doesn't think logically and when it's pissed it's fuckin pissed. I was always gettin into fights with guys twice my size in football cuz I didn't take shit even if i was being small.
my sister's autistic, and if anyone ever did anything close to this there would be no end to my fucking rage. I would go apeshit so fast.
EDIT: sry star, i meant to quote the guy U quoted...
On April 30 2010 04:19 SirIsaacNewton wrote: The incident on the bus made me wonder are most humans just sick that way?
YES!! and its about damm time you discovered it. Thats why you gotta make barricades n stuff (not literally speaking). There is just this little problem with the school, you are not allowed to make barricades there -.-
Oh come on Op. You should have helped out somehow. I'm a pretty small person but when people are picking on other people, I end up breaking it up somehow. Bullies now a day are just wimps anyways. They talk tough but never really act on it in my school. The ones who do act on, it fight like a sissy. They normally fight one guy with about 3 other people, ganging up on the kid. Its pathetic.
I would have reacted the same way as the OP. Not out of fear of getting beaten up, but because... they're kids. Dealing with kids is awkward as hell. If it was some College Bro harassing somebody on the bus, or any adult, something should have been said. But 14 year old kids... that's kind of a tricky situation. If I were to step in and the situation escalates, I don't know that I'd be able to defend myself in a way that wouldn't end up with me going to jail for beating up a little kid.
I know in some cultures, like Turkey, the public takes on responsibility for raising children. If some little kid is doing something dumb, you can smack them upside the head and tell them to knock it off. That makes sense. But I'd be way too paranoid of some spoiled brat's parents taking me to court to do anything like that in the US.
I got into "a fight" with some 12 year olds once in Philly. I didn't know wtf to do. I wasn't in any danger, they didn't have weapons or anything, and they had to jump to hit me in the face. It was just sort of funny and bizzare. I just walked away while they (v. weakly) punched me in the back. If i were to have retaliated somehow to teach them a lesson, who knows what trouble I would have gotten in.
On April 30 2010 04:37 krndandaman wrote: Yeah things like this happened on my old high school bus. Kids were ridiculous. Finally a kid got expelled from school for chucking a kid at the bus door and breaking all the glass on it.
These 2 kids were bullying a mentally retarded guy and making him feel cool then putting him down immediately. It'd go like "YOO MARIO WADDUP GANGSTA" bullied kid: "YO!!" "shut the fuck up you retard" "your mom shoulda just swallowed your dads junk"
after that I just couldn't take these little shitheads. I went to the back and told the kids to shut the fuck up like little freshman should or me and my junior friends would fuck them up.
they stopped bullying him while me and my friends were on the bus and i felt damn good about it
k honestly, beat the shit out of them wtf.??( unless they were like karate,TKD black blets) but yah there was a similar thing that happened i think it was in Toronto where a 79 year old man was getting mugged by 3 individuals(black) and they stole his wallet, his cane etc... and theres a button on the train where it sends a silent alarm to security of the train for them to know that something bad was going on. unfortunately not one of the people on the train did anything... =/
To be honest, I don't blame you for not helping the kid one bit. I know I woudn't. I know I would have been too scared to try something.
And that's the saddest part is that that feeling of disgust is not because those bullies messed with the retarded boy and no one stoping it, I'm disgusted with myself for not being able to help if it came to that.
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
I'd rather have the guys keep making fun of me than having another guy get beat down because of trying to help me. If he CAN help me, that's obviously what he should do, but if he can't i don't see the point in how him getting beat up can help me.
I quote Gandhi, i admire Gandhi, i am not Gandhi, i could never be like Gandhi.
Allow me to educate you, since you quote a man whom you wholeheartedly disagree with:
Gandhi's "strategy" was to aggressively appeal to the good within people by creating an impasse that would necessitate surrender or acts of even stronger injustice (injustices that he wagered a moral man would refuse, lest he risk the backlash of widespread hatred). You must transparently be on the side of your aggressor to be an effective negotiator: physical intimidation is counter productive to this end.
Therefore a person of meek physique is no less empowered to enact this strategy. In the case of this bus example, an elderly person or a younger child is no weaker provided they can communicate effectively - anyone who attacks the defenseless is the lowest of scum, and civil societies won't tolerate it when properly informed, concerned, and motivated (the OP left his balls at home).
You seem to understand the "passive" part of passive/non-violent resistance, but not the "resistance." The greatest injustices in today's world continue because people with power (whether it's political, financial, physical, or vocal) don't have the balls to step up and make someone else's problems their own. (Also, people are uneducated, scared, or lack confidence in themselves.)
On April 30 2010 05:45 BalloonFight wrote: Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
if you had read the thread you would have found a poster talking about how fifteen year old asians with knives ain't shit
but you didn't
what a shame
sup brah
I think you might have some difficulty coming to grips with some of the things being said in this thread. Honestly, there's really no point in replying to someone so profoundly proud of their own inability to read something in its entirety before they reply. But I'm doing it anyways, because I'm bored waiting for a class to begin.
yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is
bonus points for overwhelming self-righteousness, witty insults, and moving the goalposts
On April 30 2010 06:53 BalloonFight wrote: You do realize that your post about maximizing one's own utility being a poor moral argument, which I assume we are using in the Lockean sense, is completely at odds with your previous posts about not trying to take on kids with knives (who were made up by some other poster, and whose stupidity you have chosen to perpetuate).
i guess you could see them at completely at odds if you chose to read a ton of shit into my posts that isn't there
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
I'd rather have the guys keep making fun of me than having another guy get beat down because of trying to help me. If he CAN help me, that's obviously what he should do, but if he can't i don't see the point in how him getting beat up can help me.
I quote Gandhi, i admire Gandhi, i am not Gandhi, i could never be like Gandhi.
Allow me to educate you, since you quote a man whom you wholeheartedly disagree with:
Gandhi's "strategy" was to aggressively appeal to the good within people by creating an impasse that would necessitate surrender or acts of even stronger injustice (injustices that he wagered a moral man would refuse, lest he risk the backlash of widespread hatred). You must transparently be on the side of your aggressor to be an effective negotiator: physical intimidation is counter productive to this end.
Therefore a person of meek physique is no less empowered to enact this strategy. In the case of this bus example, an elderly person or a younger child is no weaker provided they can communicate effectively - anyone who attacks the defenseless is the lowest of scum, and civil societies won't tolerate it when properly informed, concerned, and motivated (the OP left his balls at home).
You seem to understand the "passive" part of passive/non-violent resistance, but not the "resistance." The greatest injustices in today's world continue because people with power (whether it's political, financial, physical, or vocal) don't have the balls to step up and make someone else's problems their own. (Also, people are uneducated, scared, or lack confidence in themselves.)
My suggestion for you is don't use "educate" as you sound nothing than an arrogant prick and makes people skip the rest of your post.
Read the bottom of my previous post that you have quoted. It's enough.
If you don't live around the Bay Area or San Francisco especially, you guys really shouldn't be saying anything. A lot of you have the impression that Asian=weak, nerdy, small or something like that but in SF there are plenty of Asian gangs and groups that are prevalent throughout the city, and depending on the OPs location it could have been a dangerous situation for him to get involved in.
it isn't because I am BIG I can do something it is because I am of the belief that the defenseless deserve SOMETHING.
Shout at them. Throw your bag. Demand others help you out. Make a fucking scene. If you sit there feeling bad about the mentally handicapped individual that is being picked on you are A PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Yep I'm big and I'd use that. If I was small I'd do everything I could to use what I've got. I don't want to hear some psycho analytical babble about how I couldn't possibly know that perspective blah blah blah cause I am afraid it doesn't matter. If the dudes were 30 years old and twice the size of me I would STILL say something. I cannot fathom living my life knowing I I stood by and watched something like that happen. I'd literally die for that cause. Call me crazy but there are a few things in life I am willing to go down for and my self respect, integrity and the love of humanity is one of them.
Additionally, I've done this shit before. I've literally ran into a group of 5 or 6 people that were beating the shit out of my "partner" (we were bouncers) she was 120 lbs and frail and defenseless for the most part. I didn't run in because otherwise I'd be fired or look bad I did it because a human being had no hope except for someone to do something.
This kid didn't die and wasn't being hurt in a serious way so you'll have to excuse my extremism in the earlier portion of my post but I am just illustrating how far I'd be willing to go with it.. most likely small or big if you make a commanding and strong demand that these kids stop whether you are small or large they will listen. if they go beyond that it is up to you how far you will take it.
I knocked peoples' teeth out for not giving a kid his shoe back. I was severely punished for it by my parents. I can see the sense in not doing shit, its what my parents and my school system and lawyer all fucking preach, but god damn what inc said resonates with me
and so did this scene
Diner Fight Guy 1: ~ the f**k is wrong with you, man? You rather die for some piece of s**t that you don't even f**king know? Dave Lizewski: And three assholes, laying it in one guy while everyone else watches? [reaches for air] Dave Lizewski: And you wanna know what's wrong with me? Yeah, I'd rather die... so bring it on!
On April 30 2010 08:11 Pika Chu wrote: My suggestion for you is don't use "educate" as you sound nothing than an arrogant prick and makes people skip the rest of your post.
Read the bottom of my previous post that you have quoted. It's enough.
Are you saying you quote Gandhi, you admire Gandhi, but you have no idea what his principles were and have no desire to learn? because it sure sounds like you are.
On April 30 2010 05:45 BalloonFight wrote: Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
if you had read the thread you would have found a poster talking about how fifteen year old asians with knives ain't shit
but you didn't
what a shame
sup brah
I think you might have some difficulty coming to grips with some of the things being said in this thread. Honestly, there's really no point in replying to someone so profoundly proud of their own inability to read something in its entirety before they reply. But I'm doing it anyways, because I'm bored waiting for a class to begin.
yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is
bonus points for overwhelming self-righteousness, witty insults, and moving the goalposts
On April 30 2010 06:53 BalloonFight wrote: You do realize that your post about maximizing one's own utility being a poor moral argument, which I assume we are using in the Lockean sense, is completely at odds with your previous posts about not trying to take on kids with knives (who were made up by some other poster, and whose stupidity you have chosen to perpetuate).
i guess you could see them at completely at odds if you chose to read a ton of shit into my posts that isn't there
enjoy your class
Yo man, you truly are stupid. I'm done replying to you. It would be better to take the high road and ignore your idiocy right here but I just can't, I gotta let you know one more time how disappointing it is to see how completely you are unable to understand the simple things in front of you.
will you chill out and take some advice? especially since you consider him an enemy, its probably right on the dot. what your saying is good, but if people wont listen then really it amounts to nothing
blaming and implicating won't get anybody anywhere
On April 30 2010 05:45 BalloonFight wrote: Yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is. Where the fuck did the knives even come from? Exercise your admittedly limited mental faculties and read the thread before making a reply.
if you had read the thread you would have found a poster talking about how fifteen year old asians with knives ain't shit
but you didn't
what a shame
sup brah
I think you might have some difficulty coming to grips with some of the things being said in this thread. Honestly, there's really no point in replying to someone so profoundly proud of their own inability to read something in its entirety before they reply. But I'm doing it anyways, because I'm bored waiting for a class to begin.
yet another laconic, smirking, superior post with no content meant to show how much more aware of the real world a poster is
bonus points for overwhelming self-righteousness, witty insults, and moving the goalposts
On April 30 2010 06:53 BalloonFight wrote: You do realize that your post about maximizing one's own utility being a poor moral argument, which I assume we are using in the Lockean sense, is completely at odds with your previous posts about not trying to take on kids with knives (who were made up by some other poster, and whose stupidity you have chosen to perpetuate).
i guess you could see them at completely at odds if you chose to read a ton of shit into my posts that isn't there
enjoy your class
Yo man, you truly are stupid. I'm done replying to you. It would be better to take the high road and ignore your idiocy right here but I just can't, I gotta let you know one more time how disappointing it is to see how completely you are unable to understand the simple things in front of you.
i seem to remember you insulting somebody for making contentless posts earlier today
if you were that guy, would you rather have a hundred people each with perfectly acceptable excuses for doing nothing, or one guy who stood up and said something?
I'd rather have the guys keep making fun of me than having another guy get beat down because of trying to help me. If he CAN help me, that's obviously what he should do, but if he can't i don't see the point in how him getting beat up can help me.
I quote Gandhi, i admire Gandhi, i am not Gandhi, i could never be like Gandhi.
Allow me to educate you, since you quote a man whom you wholeheartedly disagree with:
Gandhi's "strategy" was to aggressively appeal to the good within people by creating an impasse that would necessitate surrender or acts of even stronger injustice (injustices that he wagered a moral man would refuse, lest he risk the backlash of widespread hatred). You must transparently be on the side of your aggressor to be an effective negotiator: physical intimidation is counter productive to this end.
Therefore a person of meek physique is no less empowered to enact this strategy. In the case of this bus example, an elderly person or a younger child is no weaker provided they can communicate effectively - anyone who attacks the defenseless is the lowest of scum, and civil societies won't tolerate it when properly informed, concerned, and motivated (the OP left his balls at home).
You seem to understand the "passive" part of passive/non-violent resistance, but not the "resistance." The greatest injustices in today's world continue because people with power (whether it's political, financial, physical, or vocal) don't have the balls to step up and make someone else's problems their own. (Also, people are uneducated, scared, or lack confidence in themselves.)
My suggestion for you is don't use "educate" as you sound nothing than an arrogant prick and makes people skip the rest of your post.
Read the bottom of my previous post that you have quoted. It's enough.
You should have informed the bus driver of what was happening so that he could stop them, or make them get off the bus. There is no reason for that kind of sick behavior, and I am shocked that other people wouldn't have stopped it after they noticed it. Seriously, this is totally unacceptable and should have been reported immediately. Poor kid, I feel so bad for him.
I'm pretty mixed about this. I'll admit that I'm not as "brave" as some of these posters in here claim to be since I do value my safety. This situation totally reminds me of this incident where a woman was robbed and then stabbed outside her apartment complex. The neighbors looked out the window and saw what was going on, but did not bother to do anything. A couple of minutes later, the robber came back to stab the woman again when she was laying on the floor bleeding and screaming.
If I were to jump in and help the victim, I would try to gather any support I can around me. If there's no one around or no one that doesn't want to help, I'll have to bring some sort of weapon for defensive as a precaution.
EDIT:
Since the OP lives in the Bay Area, this also reminds me of the recently confrontation on the MUNI bus with "epic beard man" and Michael.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7131/calmdownj.jpg)
