• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:45
CEST 15:45
KST 22:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris23Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Joined effort New season has just come in ladder
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group C [ASL20] Ro24 Group B BWCL Season 63 Announcement [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The year 2050 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2201 users

Playing zerg as t/p

Blogs > JMave
Post a Reply
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
April 05 2010 09:28 GMT
#1
I played T and P during most of my SC time since I didn't really fancy zerg for some reason.

Anyway, I tried zerg for the first time, apart from 5 pooling, and it was where I'd put the words no-regret.

As many people already know, the first thing that strikes off zerg as being different from the other 2 races is that all units come from the same hatchery. This means that there are set period of times in a game where you are massing drones and times where you get an army. This is a really cool concept to me because I feel that it makes you have more intelligence. Like you don'tjust mindlessly make workers like T or P but rather you have to think and know when you make workers.

When I played P, PvZ was a real bitch. You'd have to handle many things and you had to scout for the most minute detail like how many lings, drone count etc. Zerg can just 12 hatch, sit with 4 lings and maybe a sunken or two and they'd be fine. 5 minutes later, they'd be coming out with 4 control groups of hydras and some mutas and you'd just get raped after your Hts were sniped.

But on a Z's perspective, it made me realise that its alot more. Firstly, losing overlords to corsairs is a really big thing. Losing one overlord as compared to two means a world of difference. Using lurkers and spreading them effectively is also more difficult than it seems from a spectator view.

It really made me understand the whole beauty of the 3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra build and how it was even thought off in the first place. It gives you a really solid counter to any P going for a mass corsair and it gives you such a great economy to be pumping so many hydras. What's best is that switching to mutas is so easy and then sniping HTs becomes a breeze.

The absolute thing that I really loved about playing zerg was muta control. I spent 2 hours almost daily on the muta micro map trying to kill as many scourges as possible with 6 mutas. It made me realise that victory in many zerg games is all dependent on your muta control.

This is exceptionally true in both ZvT and ZvZ where if you have good control in ZvT, you can skip lurkers, get onto 4 gas and get a bunch of ultras. ZvZ is a micro-fest. I played a D game against a D+ and the difference in victory was the practice I had in the muta micro maps to kill scourges paying off for me, while my opponent got scourged everytime.

As T, I was really frustrated with players that had good muta control, killing off my turrets and workers and forcing my tech to be slower to combat with the mutas. Playing ZvT was quite difficult as I find that getting the lurker timing right is quite difficult and my macro collapses after I get my mutas. Defiler usage is also really difficult and it took alot of getting used to, like consuming and knowing where to swarm.

The one thing I hated most about ZvT is when a T goes mech. Now I really understand how difficult it is for lower level zerg players to defeat mech. The economic loss for T when he goes for a bunker rush is so much less than for a zerg who counters it. The vulture is basically the most imbalanced unit in the match where if you don't have good army positioning, the mines are going to land on your lurkers and hydras and tank splash wipes you down.

Then it brings me much respect to zerg players like Jaedong and Hogil who are my favourite zerg players because they've got great muta micro and defiler usage. I am really impressed at how smart and patient they really are and knowing when to produce what, how many at this point and having great army positioning.

***
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
April 05 2010 09:36 GMT
#2
ZvT is so ****ing hard. MM, if they have halfway decent control, you never have enough units to defend. Mech, they can just turtle up, and if you don't expand enough, slip up on your macro a tiny bit, get harassed a bit too much, or have your unit composition wrong, you just die.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
April 05 2010 09:37 GMT
#3
Nice post. It's good to see an ex-terrran/protoss player appreciate how difficult zerg actually is. I have similar problems. Once I have to muta micro it's so hard to keep the macro going.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
April 05 2010 09:40 GMT
#4
I'm basically in the same boat as you.

I find ZvT incredibly difficult because how many things you'd have to do well. One missed dropship could literally mean GG even if you have a huge lead. I fail hard with Hive timing, as I almost never seem to get it right. Also, Defilers are such difficult units to use. They walk 10x slower than the rest of your army, and just get picked off by the SVs
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
April 05 2010 09:56 GMT
#5
My ZvT was the best of all my Zerg MUs when i played zerg but they were all horrible >_>...
the secret is Kwanro style
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
April 05 2010 10:46 GMT
#6
On April 05 2010 18:37 tomatriedes wrote:
Nice post. It's good to see an ex-terrran/protoss player appreciate how difficult zerg actually is. I have similar problems. Once I have to muta micro it's so hard to keep the macro going.


I did this in a blog once and I got bashed by other people saying 'youre just not used to the race its actually really easy' and things of the like. But enough about me, I congradulate another person in opening their mind to other races, may you apply the same views in real life as well :D

No underlying meaning intended, but if neccessary may apply.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
Gao Xi
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Hong Kong5178 Posts
April 05 2010 10:50 GMT
#7
For me in ZvT, Hold lurkers make a huge difference, because for some reason Terrans love to push out as soon as their Vessels spawn, but its never together with their army until they're half way across the map.
龔智禮 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ CJ NATION
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
April 05 2010 11:33 GMT
#8
On April 05 2010 19:50 Gao Xi wrote:
For me in ZvT, Hold lurkers make a huge difference, because for some reason Terrans love to push out as soon as their Vessels spawn, but its never together with their army until they're half way across the map.

I off-race as terran every once in a while and to answer why they push out when the vessels spawn is because to the terran it is a perfect time to do a timing push from the terran point of view.

to OP: I used to(and still am in terms of muta/macro) have a time during which I tried switching to T and to Z from toss and I found that I hated T mech because its just 3 units every single game and it gets repetitive as its also the same exact strategy(basically). I could only do SK terran(go figure lol) and recently I found out about a nuke push during which I push out with 1 ghost with a nuke ready and a vessel as well as a MnM army. Thats right! Its a sunken break but the ghost(protected with defensive matrix and army just next to/behind it) nukes the sunkens so I lose less of my army.

I then decided to go to Zerg and I expected heavy losses from mass sairs but I can't figure out how Jaedong micros his mutas AND macros at the same time. I lost every single time in ZvZ unless I 5pooled(lol) or proxy hatched to my opponent's 3rd or 4th and then went from that to making my mutas there and even then I lose because I can't macro! If someone knows how u macro and micro at once, PM me plz! I don't want many people to find out, least not yet.
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
April 05 2010 12:20 GMT
#9
Hey (:

I play TvP/TvZ and ZvT
I found that I don't know the correct mindset to take when I'm playing ZvP, but ZvT i love that shit.

I love the muta micro part, actually, and lurker/ling. Haven't gotten the hang of defiler/hive play yet.

When you play against mech, learn to abuse the power of your army's mobility against his immobile army. If he went mech, he will go for some initial vulture harass. 3 sunken shots kill one vulture, so just place a sunken where it can cover your ramp and most of your mineral line.

Be careful of a wraith build too, a vulture doesn't guarantee a ground based mech build. So whatever you do, open 2 hatch or 3 hatch mutas. I prefer 3 hatch because of the economy it gives me.

After you scout mech going down with your mutas, get +1 carapace, immediately cancel lurker (if you started getting it already), get speed and range on hydras, place two evos and get range and carapace.

Then expand like mad while tearing around his base with your mutas and annoying the fuck out of him.

I mean, at our level, D or D+, (and as far as I know, the only Singaporeans past D+ level is Pangshai and Konadora) the Terran will just commit far more mistakes than he should like leaving tanks undefended or committing too heavily to turrets.

Snipe here and there, you've got this shit. Then macro a whole ton of hydras and mutas and 1a2a3a, rinse and repeat. Be sure to get a good mix though, and constantly upgrade. If it comes down to a push where he wants to kill your bases, counter into his main for the GG.

I just love playing ZvT mech, i actually win more of those than ZvT M&M.

Good going man :D
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
April 05 2010 13:21 GMT
#10
On April 05 2010 18:36 neobowman wrote:
ZvT is so ****ing hard. MM, if they have halfway decent control, you never have enough units to defend. Mech, they can just turtle up, and if you don't expand enough, slip up on your macro a tiny bit, get harassed a bit too much, or have your unit composition wrong, you just die.

I love ZvT. I find it the most fun. However, once you're behind, it's probably the most frustrating. You can kill that ball as many times as you want, but those vessels will keep irradiating everything, and the mnm will keep coming back. Drops everywhere killing your bases, combined with the massive ball that stops anything that passes. So frustrating.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
April 05 2010 13:36 GMT
#11
I find the hard part is knowing what to build. Like say if you're against T, you have to know which larvae goes to hydras for lurkers and which for lings etc. As terran you just know that rax--> rines/medics and facs--> tanks and all that shit. Zerg is for smart guys i guess lol.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
S2 Championship: Ro16 Day 2
IndyStarCraft 115
SteadfastSC100
EnkiAlexander 44
IntoTheiNu 17
Liquipedia
WardiTV Summer Champion…
11:00
Playoffs Day 1
NightMare vs ZounLIVE!
Clem vs MaxPax
WardiTV1011
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #103
Solar vs ShoWTimELIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings339
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 145
IndyStarCraft 115
ProTech101
SteadfastSC 100
BRAT_OK 94
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46382
Larva 1147
Mini 357
Killer 337
Rush 327
Last 294
Hyun 275
ggaemo 274
Hyuk 236
firebathero 213
[ Show more ]
Pusan 213
Mind 141
PianO 125
Sea.KH 53
Sacsri 47
soO 37
HiyA 17
Free 16
Noble 14
Dota 2
Gorgc12324
qojqva1862
XcaliburYe337
Pyrionflax230
League of Legends
Dendi878
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1542
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King58
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor218
Other Games
singsing2078
B2W.Neo1078
byalli269
RotterdaM164
Fuzer 162
KnowMe76
rGuardiaN30
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 10
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3240
• WagamamaTV469
League of Legends
• Nemesis4279
• Jankos2059
Upcoming Events
Chat StarLeague
2h 16m
Razz vs Julia
StRyKeR vs ZZZero
Semih vs TBD
Replay Cast
10h 16m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 16m
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
21h 16m
RotterdaM Event
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 21h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.