EPT"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain
Studying japanese in Japan? - Page 2
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baller
527 Posts
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." -- Mark Twain | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:39 Chill wrote: Unless in terms of generating money. Useless in the comparison of dollars spent to dollars earned, which is the theme of this blog. I find a lot of people lately on TL are having an identity crisis of sorts lately, and coming up with these fantastical ideas to solve them. I'm trying to be the realist for you who has already gone through all that shit and is talking from the other side. You need to grind through and "find yourself" after you have built some freedom, which usually hinges on some form of financial freedom. Everyone goes through this. The majority who just grind through end up way better off. Well I think you can probably agree that there is some value in the experience itself. I can understand why it may seem as such, but I'm not that sure I would call it an identity crisis. I have economic freedom to some extent, after 2 years of working I do have some savings. More importantly I have great experiences in the form of travelling, taking care of myself in a foreign country etc. Anyway having someone oppose my ideas with realistic arguments isn't so much discouraging as helpful for me personally. I'm very thankful for all replies.  | ||
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Thratur
Canada917 Posts
Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:52 Thratur wrote: I am actually trying to learn Japanese using Rosetta Stone these times at an insane rate. I would recommend you to start with this software. It is actually really good. After that, I have no idea, but it should keep you busy for at least 90-100 hours if you go through all 3 CDs. Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols. Thanks for the tip. And yes, kanji sure is intimidating. ^^ | ||
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TommyGG
United States142 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote: all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom. "Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." -- Mark Twain I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language. | ||
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Thratur
Canada917 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote: I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
Learning it boils down to 3 things: -Learning the vocabulary & connotations the words might have -Learning the grammar forms & when they're appropriate -Memorizing the exceptions Beyond the language there are tons of cultural customs and tendencies developed throughout their history (in-group/out-group, gift & favor giving, levels of politeness) which alter the language based on situation. Before you go there get a grasp on these first or you're going to be confused and ignorant for a long time. If you're at a place with a consistent job and near a school, try finding out if you can host an exchange student. You'll save on money, gain on experience and have an invaluable study aid. | ||
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Simplistik
2048 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:52 Thratur wrote: I am actually trying to learn Japanese using Rosetta Stone these times at an insane rate. I would recommend you to start with this software. It is actually really good. After that, I have no idea, but it should keep you busy for at least 90-100 hours if you go through all 3 CDs. Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols. The good news is that, like everything, Kanji become natural if you see them often enough (by being in Japan). The bad news is that there are several ten thousand. If you want to learn Japanese, then don't go to Japan before you have at least basic knowledge. You can get basic vocabulary from the internet and then listen to and imitate subbed Japanese TV. In general going to Japan isn't a great career move unless you've got a nice job with a big international company. Most of my friends who've been to Japan for a year or so during university disliked it there. I'm afraid you're just gonna have to find something interesting to do over here. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
An UK born Asian guy that succeeded in Japan. He has a few tips on how to succeed in Japan. | ||
Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote: I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language. I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly. I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
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TommyGG
United States142 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:09 Chill wrote: I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly. I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went. I'll be clearer next time. I am not advocating 2 years or nothing. I am just talking about the trip in general. I would actually encourage a 3-month trip or so over 2 years, it's just that it felt like people were telling the OP not to go to Japan entirely because of the financial burdens of it. Looking back it does seem a little ridiculous to drop everything and escape to Asia for 2 years. I didn't think of it in that perspective earlier. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
I have a friend of a friend learning it on full-time basis and still cannot master it. He is Chinese, too, so he already has an advantage. If you have no knowledge of other East-Asian languages, then you are pretty much screwed over trying to learn it in two years. Unless you are a genius. But seeing that you didn't even go to university, I'd say you are not. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:58 Thratur wrote: Hey, I thought about it. Considering that I'm learning Japanese too since recently, maybe we can help each other or something? I don't know, but sharing what I learn with someone could be a good idea to learn. Send me a PM with your MSN if you're interested. Yeah that's awesome. I'll pm you my msn though I won't have time (or internet connection) for something like a week.On March 23 2010 08:09 Chill wrote: I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly. I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went. Well I did spend 1 month in tokyo last year. Half of that time all alone I might add and I was lucky enough to meet some people randomly and have one of the greatest times of my life. I don't agree that it's a 2 year vacation because I really think I have the dedication to learn the language on a deeper level, even if that requires hard studying long beyond my stay in japan. I think the hard part is getting a grip on what sort of benefits having a language skill has, but I'm sure there is some value to it. From what I've heard having lived in a foreign country itself can be a great merit in college/job applications as well. Still I can't deny that the experience itself is extremely tempting for me. On March 23 2010 08:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote: I've taken Japanese through school for ~6 years now (I'm in the final class at my uni), dated a Japanese chick for a year and still mail/skype some people I met there. The classes aren't that effective at teaching you what you really need to know/will use (unless the teacher is Japanese and stresses conversation over reading) Learning it boils down to 3 things: -Learning the vocabulary & connotations the words might have -Learning the grammar forms & when they're appropriate -Memorizing the exceptions Beyond the language there are tons of cultural customs and tendencies developed throughout their history (in-group/out-group, gift & favor giving, levels of politeness) which alter the language based on situation. Before you go there get a grasp on these first or you're going to be confused and ignorant for a long time. If you're at a place with a consistent job and near a school, try finding out if you can host an exchange student. You'll save on money, gain on experience and have an invaluable study aid. Thanks for your reply. I am aware that learning japanese is a huge challenge and isn't done just over the course of a year, which is sort of what makes this decision hard to make. It's pretty clear though that my first priority should be to get a decent grasp of the foundations back at home, before I venture to even think about moving to japan. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:26 illu wrote: You got to be kidding me. It's not possible to master it in two years. It's an incredibly difficult language. I have a friend of a friend learning it on full-time basis and still cannot master it. He is Chinese, too, so he already has an advantage. If you have no knowledge of other East-Asian languages, then you are pretty much screwed over trying to learn it in two years. Unless you are a genius. But seeing that you didn't even go to university, I'd say you are not. I don't expect to "master" it in 2 years, I understand that learning kanji and different degrees and nuances of formality takes far longer than that. About your remark about university which is completely ridiculous imo, I am going to university at some point. My grades are good enough to get me into whatever education I wish. I just don't think rushing yourself into taking some random education before you know anything about your real goals in life (and at 19, most people don't...) is a stupid move that could potentially be very expensive and unnecessarily time-consuming. The drop-out rate of swedes starting studies immediately after gymnasium are insane.  Another option I have considered is in fact taking a 5 year course in economics at one of swedens best universities, that includes one year in japan as a foreign exchange student. I just don't know if that will have the same sort of reward, it's like either I dedicate myself to learning the language or I pass it up and do what most people would have done 2 years ago. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27151 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote: all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom. "Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." -- Mark Twain ... you are so right. I feel like have just been endlessly studying at a desk so I can have the priviledge of working at a desk. To be honest, I wish I would have been a carpenter. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:31 hifriend wrote: I don't expect to "master" it in 2 years, I understand that learning kanji and different degrees and nuances of formality takes far longer than that. About your remark about university which is completely ridiculous imo, I am going to university at some point. My grades are good enough to get me into whatever education I wish. I just don't think rushing yourself into taking some random education before you know anything about your real goals in life (and at 19, most people don't...) is a stupid move that could potentially be very expensive and unnecessarily time-consuming. The drop-out rate of swedes starting studies immediately after gymnasium are insane. Another option I have considered is in fact taking a 5 year course in economics at one of swedens best universities, that includes one year in japan as a foreign exchange student. I just don't know if that will have the same sort of reward, it's like either I dedicate myself to learning the language or I pass it up and do what most people would have done 2 years ago. I still think going to Japan for 2 years to do this and that is a little bit far-fetched. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
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