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Hi guys. Alright I'm not all certain why I'm writing this entry, but I guess I'm more or less looking to get to hear some thoughts on this just to get some different perspective.
Well I guess I'll start out by explaining my current situation a little bit so that you get the context. I'm turning 21 this year, meaning it's been about 2 years now since I finished gymnasium (not sure what the u.s. equivalence is called but w/e). Looking back on the time that has passed since then I'm not really sure what to say, except it feels somewhat meaningless in a way. Unlike most of my friends I didn't start university immediately for two reasons. First I couldn't (still can't) for the life of me figure out what I really wanted to do, a task that still weighs heavily upon me because I am actually more motived to start studying than ever before. Also at that point in time I really felt the need to do something completely different and I guess I wanted to get a sense of what it was like living as an independent adult instead of going straight to university.
Under those circumstances I figured back then that the best thing I could do would be to just start working, trying to get by on my own for a while and travel as much as I could. I moved from my hometown Stockholm to a small town in Norway on impulse a couple of months after finishing school. I already had some friends here and I could get work more easily then at home, so things turned out pretty well. I got to travel a lot last year with what income I had and got to see a couple of cities in USA, as well as tokyo, hong kong and a short visit to Beijing.
Well as you can probably guess from the title Tokyo and Japan is what really caught my eye, and since then I've developed a deeper interest in japanese culture. I'm really not interested in manga/anime or things like that, but I think what attracts me about Japan is just the fact that it is different from anything I've ever experienced and the only way to get to know the country on a deeper level would be by learning the language. I have also been somewhat interested in learning a new language for a while now.
In a way I don't feel good pushing university further ahead, but on the other hand I really don't want to start studying something that doesn't really interest me, and a language could always come in useful later on in life. Student loans for 2 years in a different country are pretty expensive even in sweden, so I'm still debating whether it' worth it even though I'm certain that it's something I really want to do.
So yeah, I've been looking at my options and I'm thinking about just taking one of those 2 year Japanese courses in one of the major cities. Again I'm not sure what I want out of this blog but if anyone has any experience with this sort of thing, I would be interested to hear how you went about doing it, or otherwise just hear your opinions on the idea...
edit: fuck this is a pretty weird post. I wrote down a huge thing in a word document because I felt like getting a sense of where I was atm, and this is more or less a summary. My life is in such disorder right now but I shouldn't go into details. T_T
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Calgary25980 Posts
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas.
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I've taken Japanese for years and I'd like to go to Japan as well. But it just isn't a smart move financially.
Also, from all the classes I've taken at school I can say that learning a language is most effectively done on your own time outside of the classroom.
You can literally learn Japanese over the internet if you had the motivation. You can skype with plenty of willing Japanese native speakers for free and there's a wealth of information on the characters and grammar out there all available to be studied at your own pace.
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Going to school to learn a language makes no sense unless you want to learn it at the deepest and most sophisticated levels, which would probably take way more than 2 years.
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On March 23 2010 06:12 eMbrace wrote:
I've taken Japanese for years and I'd like to go to Japan as well. But it just isn't a smart move financially.
Also, from all the classes I've taken at school I can say that learning a language is most effectively done on your own time outside of the classroom.
You can literally learn Japanese over the internet if you had the motivation. You can skype with plenty of willing Japanese native speakers for free and there's a wealth of information on the characters and grammar out there all available to be studied at your own pace. I think the best way to get to know a language is by just living in the country. That way you're pretty much forced into using it and the learning curve should be so much faster. On the other hand I'm aware that financially it's not really a great decision. :/
On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas.
Yeah, and I've had similar thoughts myself. But the reason why my life is in disorder stems from my current situation. I'm just overall bored with my life right now, and I want to be doing something that interests me. Can you do things just because you really want to, disregarding losses and "time wasted"? I suck at life decisions. But the experience itself must hold some sort of value.
On March 23 2010 06:18 ShaperofDreams wrote:
Going to school to learn a language makes no sense unless you want to learn it at the deepest and most sophisticated levels, which would probably take way more than 2 years.
I guess but from what I've read these educations are meant to prepare you for university, so when the time arrives I could chose to continue my education in japan, for whatever that's worth.
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Yes, the best way to learn a language is to actually live in that country -- but dropping yourself in there with little knowledge of the language and expecting it to come to you in 2 years is just naive.
And to expect to advance your education all while being in this situation is a bit far fetched. You should more experience under your belt. Deciding that you want to go off and learn a foreign language all of a sudden just doesn't seem right.
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On March 23 2010 06:29 eMbrace wrote:
Yes, the best way to learn a language is to actually live in that country -- but dropping yourself in there with little knowledge of the language and expecting it to come to you in 2 years is just naive.
And to expect to advance your education all while being in this situation is a bit far fetched. You should more experience under your belt. Deciding that you want to go off and learn a foreign language all of a sudden just doesn't seem right.
I know, this probably comes across as extremely naive haha, but I've actually had strong thoughts about this for a couple of months now. I've started taking lessons and I'm thinking about maybe taking a couple of months worth of Japanese fulltime course in preparation. That way I'm not so much throwing myself in there, but yeah it might still be a bit far fetched? What sort of understanding of the language might one realistically have after studying it intensively during 3 years?
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:21 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Yeah, and I've had similar thoughts myself. But the reason why my life is in disorder stems from my current situation. I'm just overall bored with my life right now, and I want to be doing something that interests me. Can you do things just because you really want to, disregarding losses and "time wasted"?
Yes, but ignoring any sort of cost/benefit analysis is dumb. It's like people who argue we should sacrifice countless resources to improve the environment of the earth. Clearly there exists some balance point between you being bored, and you incurring 2 years worth of debt.
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On March 23 2010 06:48 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 06:21 hifriend wrote:On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Yeah, and I've had similar thoughts myself. But the reason why my life is in disorder stems from my current situation. I'm just overall bored with my life right now, and I want to be doing something that interests me. Can you do things just because you really want to, disregarding losses and "time wasted"? Yes, but ignoring any sort of cost/benefit analysis is dumb. It's like people who argue we should sacrifice countless resources to improve the environment of the earth. Clearly there exists some balance point between you being bored, and you incurring 2 years worth of debt.
Yep. I realize this all too well and to some degree I almost wish I was the sort of person that could impulsively do it anyway, without overthinking the consequences. So what I'm really debating is whether the long time benefits of knowing an additional languages might be worth the costs anyway.
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I always heard that a degree was worth a lot in Europe, mainly Germany, unlike in the US.
Before going into crazy adventures by yourself you should be well prepared financially, and it usually helps to have a degree when you are looking for a decent job.
Edit: if you wanna learn a new language that brings you great benefits ($$), I advice you to learn Chinese.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:58 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 06:48 Chill wrote:On March 23 2010 06:21 hifriend wrote:On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Yeah, and I've had similar thoughts myself. But the reason why my life is in disorder stems from my current situation. I'm just overall bored with my life right now, and I want to be doing something that interests me. Can you do things just because you really want to, disregarding losses and "time wasted"? Yes, but ignoring any sort of cost/benefit analysis is dumb. It's like people who argue we should sacrifice countless resources to improve the environment of the earth. Clearly there exists some balance point between you being bored, and you incurring 2 years worth of debt. Yep. I realize this all too well and to some degree I almost wish I was the sort of person that could impulsively do it anyway, without overthinking the consequences. So what I'm really debating is whether the long time benefits of knowing an additional languages might be worth the costs anyway.
They are not. I can say this with unparalleled certainty.
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I went on exchange to Japan a year ago, and took three Japanese courses from the Japanese university while I was in school.
It's actually not that much better to learn Japanese in Japan (if not worse actually, as weird as that might sound) if you do not have the basics covered. If you are already somewhat introduced to a language, then going to the country is a great idea to improve your skills; but getting started in the country is not nearly the same, because teachers in Japan are not necessarily better than the teachers you can find outside when it comes to dealing with foreigners with no fundamentals. What I am saying is, it is easier for you to learn the basic Japanese in English than in Japanese; you need a starting point, a foundation before going.
You will not benefit from the environment through osmosis when you have absolutely not idea what is going on.
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Depends how well you want to learn the language and how serious you are about it.
If you want to be even close to native speaker status for Japanese, then you have to live there. The speed, dialect, emphasis on accents cannot really be taught unless you're exposed to it in the context of living there.
On the other hand, someone else did mention you can learn Japanese quite well by yourself if you wanted. This is true, but its a lot of work. You'll have to make a conscious decision to want to get better and go out of your way to improve. Studies are one thing, and actual speaking and listening experience is another. Speaking with a person on skype twice a week can help you, but it won't be as effective as speaking and hearing Japanese everyday.
Money wise, getting a Job for someone who's not Japanese is hell from what I've heard. You can probably ask someone else about that though.
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On March 23 2010 07:13 Cambium wrote:
I went on exchange to Japan a year ago, and took three Japanese courses from the Japanese university while I was in school.
It's actually not that much better to learn Japanese in Japan (if not worse actually, as weird as that might sound) if you do not have the basics covered. If you are already somewhat introduced to a language, then going to the country is a great idea to improve your skills; but getting started in the country is not nearly the same, because teachers in Japan are not necessarily better than the teachers you can find outside when it comes to dealing with foreigners with no fundamentals. What I am saying is, it is easier for you to learn the basic Japanese in English than in Japanese; you need a starting point, a foundation before going.
You will not benefit from the environment through osmosis when you have absolutely not idea what is going on.
Alright that makes a lot of sense, but my plan was to study it in sweden for a couple of months, maybe half a year, before leaving to begin the education in Japan. I know it isn't much, but it is a foundation never the less. I would imagine that the teachers aren't necessarily better at teaching it, but just the fact that you are constantly surrounded by the language sort of forces you into learning it, right? I think that would be the main incentive for moving to japan, that you are being exposed to the language in a way that you couldn't replicate from home.
On March 23 2010 07:17 Zidane wrote:
Depends how well you want to learn the language and how serious you are about it.
If you want to be even close to native speaker status for Japanese, then you have to live there. The speed, dialect, emphasis on accents cannot really be taught unless you're exposed to it in the context of living there.
On the other hand, someone else did mention you can learn Japanese quite well by yourself if you wanted. This is true, but its a lot of work. You'll have to make a conscious decision to want to get better and go out of your way to improve. Studies are one thing, and actual speaking and listening experience is another. Speaking with a person on skype twice a week can help you, but it won't be as effective as speaking and hearing Japanese everyday.
Money wise, getting a Job for someone who's not Japanese is hell from what I've heard. You can probably ask someone else about that though.
I am definitely serious about it and if I'm doing something like this I'm doing it with all of my heart. I'm like not-even-going-to-buy-sc2 serious. 
On March 23 2010 07:07 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 06:58 hifriend wrote:On March 23 2010 06:48 Chill wrote:On March 23 2010 06:21 hifriend wrote:On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Yeah, and I've had similar thoughts myself. But the reason why my life is in disorder stems from my current situation. I'm just overall bored with my life right now, and I want to be doing something that interests me. Can you do things just because you really want to, disregarding losses and "time wasted"? Yes, but ignoring any sort of cost/benefit analysis is dumb. It's like people who argue we should sacrifice countless resources to improve the environment of the earth. Clearly there exists some balance point between you being bored, and you incurring 2 years worth of debt. Yep. I realize this all too well and to some degree I almost wish I was the sort of person that could impulsively do it anyway, without overthinking the consequences. So what I'm really debating is whether the long time benefits of knowing an additional languages might be worth the costs anyway. They are not. I can say this with unparalleled certainty.
Sucks that you are probably right. It's actually why I posted here, because I expected to get much more pessimistic (read: realistic) responses then my friends might provide. But I still feel like I have to figure this out somehow, because for the first time in a couple of years I have a good idea of something I would want to do with my life "long term".
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On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas.
Useless skill is a pretty harsh, while it isn't one of the BEST choices when choosing a foreigh language, its still not useless.
Given OP's situation though I'd have to agree try again when your conditions are more favored, or just pick something thats more rewarding
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Your language skills improve exponentially in a foreign country if you have the basics down (a year or two of school study beforehand). I participated in a summer language program in China last summer after studying a year in high school and I was amazed at how much I improved in just 2 months. 2 years and you would be damn near fluent if you just immerse yourself in the culture. That being said, the kids in the lower levels of the program who were studying the entry-level texts didn't really benefit much from being in China because they still couldn't communicate with the people around them. They could have accomplished the same thing for cheaper if they had just stayed in America to study.
I think you should get a grasp of the language before you head out to Japan and then go for it. The experience of living in another country learning a foreign language is definitely worth the costs you will incur. Don't shelter yourself from this opportunity by letting people convince you that it is not worth the debt afterward.
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On March 23 2010 07:19 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:13 Cambium wrote:
I went on exchange to Japan a year ago, and took three Japanese courses from the Japanese university while I was in school.
It's actually not that much better to learn Japanese in Japan (if not worse actually, as weird as that might sound) if you do not have the basics covered. If you are already somewhat introduced to a language, then going to the country is a great idea to improve your skills; but getting started in the country is not nearly the same, because teachers in Japan are not necessarily better than the teachers you can find outside when it comes to dealing with foreigners with no fundamentals. What I am saying is, it is easier for you to learn the basic Japanese in English than in Japanese; you need a starting point, a foundation before going.
You will not benefit from the environment through osmosis when you have absolutely not idea what is going on. Alright that makes a lot of sense, but my plan was to study it in sweden for a couple of months, maybe half a year, before leaving to begin the education in Japan. I know it isn't much, but it is a foundation never the less. I would imagine that the teachers aren't necessarily better at teaching it, but just the fact that you are constantly surrounded by the language sort of forces you into learning it, right? I think that would be the main incentive for moving to japan, that you are being exposed to the language in a way that you couldn't replicate from home.
Not commenting on your motivation/goals/etc, just providing you with some of my personal experiences about learning Japanese in Japan:
I took three Japanese courses in my home university before going, and I am fluent in Chinese (I could read and understand ~3/4 of their written language), and I still had a ton of trouble "breaking into" the language. Whereas my friend whom went on exchange with 3 years of Japanese background (she started in highschool) excelled tremendously (there are certainly other factors, but I think knowledge of the fundamentals definitely contributed).
I don't mean to discourage you, and I think it's a worthwhile investment if you see the merits; but I would just like to point it out to you that Japanese is a very very *very* difficult language, especially if you do not have an Eastern Asian language background. Also, the basics Japanese you learn from introductory courses (regardless where you take them) will largely be obsolete, as it takes a completely neutral form of politeness (kei-go, meaning to show respect), but in reality, it's the form that people rarely use (i.e. people who know you will use less formal conjugations, and strangers will use a more polite/former conjugation) which will leave you feeling completely helpless 
Also, I found that Japanese people are TERRIBLE at communication with foreigners. They would often elect to use the most formal word choice and conjugation possible (the more rare) instead of using the simple plain forms (a sign of disrespect in their culture, but much easier to understand, since this is what you learn, and you can't recognize conjugations fast enough). And the more you don't understand, the more they panic, and the more they conjugate. It's just a huge mess.
It will be tough, but if you are determined, it can be done.
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On March 23 2010 07:33 TommyGG wrote:
Your language skills improve exponentially in a foreign country if you have the basics down (a year or two of school study beforehand). I participated in a summer language program in China last summer after studying a year in high school and I was amazed at how much I improved in just 2 months. 2 years and you would be damn near fluent if you just immerse yourself in the culture. That being said, the kids in the lower levels of the program who were studying the entry-level texts didn't really benefit much from being in China because they still couldn't communicate with the people around them. They could have accomplished the same thing for cheaper if they had just stayed in America to study.
I think you should get a grasp of the language before you head out to Japan and then go for it. The experience of living in another country learning a foreign language is definitely worth the costs you will incur. Don't shelter yourself from this opportunity by letting people convince you that it is not worth the debt afterward.
Yep, this is exactly what I was talking about.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:30 Monokeros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Useless skill is a pretty harsh, while it isn't one of the BEST choices when choosing a foreigh language, its still not useless. Given OP's situation though I'd have to agree try again when your conditions are more favored, or just pick something thats more rewarding
Unless in terms of generating money. Useless in the comparison of dollars spent to dollars earned, which is the theme of this blog.
I find a lot of people lately on TL are having an identity crisis of sorts lately, and coming up with these fantastical ideas to solve them. I'm trying to be the realist for you who has already gone through all that shit and is talking from the other side.
You need to grind through and "find yourself" after you have built some freedom, which usually hinges on some form of financial freedom. Everyone goes through this. The majority who just grind through end up way better off.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:33 TommyGG wrote:
The experience of living in another country learning a foreign language is definitely worth the costs you will incur when you can afford it. Don't shelter yourself from this opportunity by letting people convince you that it is not worth the debt afterward.
I added some insight to your post.
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all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain
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On March 23 2010 07:39 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:30 Monokeros wrote:On March 23 2010 06:06 Chill wrote:
If your life in is disorder, I'm going to guess that 2 years of debt to gain a useless skill isn't the best of ideas. Useless skill is a pretty harsh, while it isn't one of the BEST choices when choosing a foreigh language, its still not useless. Given OP's situation though I'd have to agree try again when your conditions are more favored, or just pick something thats more rewarding Unless in terms of generating money. Useless in the comparison of dollars spent to dollars earned, which is the theme of this blog. I find a lot of people lately on TL are having an identity crisis of sorts lately, and coming up with these fantastical ideas to solve them. I'm trying to be the realist for you who has already gone through all that shit and is talking from the other side. You need to grind through and "find yourself" after you have built some freedom, which usually hinges on some form of financial freedom. Everyone goes through this. The majority who just grind through end up way better off.
Well I think you can probably agree that there is some value in the experience itself. I can understand why it may seem as such, but I'm not that sure I would call it an identity crisis. I have economic freedom to some extent, after 2 years of working I do have some savings. More importantly I have great experiences in the form of travelling, taking care of myself in a foreign country etc. Anyway having someone oppose my ideas with realistic arguments isn't so much discouraging as helpful for me personally. I'm very thankful for all replies.
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I am actually trying to learn Japanese using Rosetta Stone these times at an insane rate. I would recommend you to start with this software. It is actually really good. After that, I have no idea, but it should keep you busy for at least 90-100 hours if you go through all 3 CDs.
Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols.
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On March 23 2010 07:52 Thratur wrote:
I am actually trying to learn Japanese using Rosetta Stone these times at an insane rate. I would recommend you to start with this software. It is actually really good. After that, I have no idea, but it should keep you busy for at least 90-100 hours if you go through all 3 CDs.
Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols.
Thanks for the tip. And yes, kanji sure is intimidating. ^^
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On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain
I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language.
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Hey, I thought about it. Considering that I'm learning Japanese too since recently, maybe we can help each other or something? I don't know, but sharing what I learn with someone could be a good idea to learn. Send me a PM with your MSN if you're interested.
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On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language not Asian.
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I've taken Japanese through school for ~6 years now (I'm in the final class at my uni), dated a Japanese chick for a year and still mail/skype some people I met there. The classes aren't that effective at teaching you what you really need to know/will use (unless the teacher is Japanese and stresses conversation over reading)
Learning it boils down to 3 things:
-Learning the vocabulary & connotations the words might have
-Learning the grammar forms & when they're appropriate
-Memorizing the exceptions
Beyond the language there are tons of cultural customs and tendencies developed throughout their history (in-group/out-group, gift & favor giving, levels of politeness) which alter the language based on situation. Before you go there get a grasp on these first or you're going to be confused and ignorant for a long time. If you're at a place with a consistent job and near a school, try finding out if you can host an exchange student. You'll save on money, gain on experience and have an invaluable study aid.
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On March 23 2010 07:52 Thratur wrote:
I am actually trying to learn Japanese using Rosetta Stone these times at an insane rate. I would recommend you to start with this software. It is actually really good. After that, I have no idea, but it should keep you busy for at least 90-100 hours if you go through all 3 CDs.
Kanji looks REALLY scary though. I'm not sure I want to learn 1948 symbols.
The good news is that, like everything, Kanji become natural if you see them often enough (by being in Japan). The bad news is that there are several ten thousand.
If you want to learn Japanese, then don't go to Japan before you have at least basic knowledge. You can get basic vocabulary from the internet and then listen to and imitate subbed Japanese TV.
In general going to Japan isn't a great career move unless you've got a nice job with a big international company. Most of my friends who've been to Japan for a year or so during university disliked it there.
I'm afraid you're just gonna have to find something interesting to do over here.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language.
I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly.
I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went.
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Go there to study for a year, two seems a bit long for a semi-random adventure. It seems like ALOT of swedes are going to Japan to study Japanese. I don't see any problem with it at all, especially when you get student loans from Sweden while doing so 
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On March 23 2010 08:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote:On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language. I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly. I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went.
I'll be clearer next time. I am not advocating 2 years or nothing. I am just talking about the trip in general. I would actually encourage a 3-month trip or so over 2 years, it's just that it felt like people were telling the OP not to go to Japan entirely because of the financial burdens of it. Looking back it does seem a little ridiculous to drop everything and escape to Asia for 2 years. I didn't think of it in that perspective earlier.
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You got to be kidding me. It's not possible to master it in two years. It's an incredibly difficult language.
I have a friend of a friend learning it on full-time basis and still cannot master it. He is Chinese, too, so he already has an advantage. If you have no knowledge of other East-Asian languages, then you are pretty much screwed over trying to learn it in two years.
Unless you are a genius. But seeing that you didn't even go to university, I'd say you are not.
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On March 23 2010 07:58 Thratur wrote:
Hey, I thought about it. Considering that I'm learning Japanese too since recently, maybe we can help each other or something? I don't know, but sharing what I learn with someone could be a good idea to learn. Send me a PM with your MSN if you're interested.
Yeah that's awesome. I'll pm you my msn though I won't have time (or internet connection) for something like a week.
On March 23 2010 08:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:55 TommyGG wrote:On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain I agree with this post. Don't pass this up because you don't have a stable future ahead of you. Studying abroad while young is the greatest experiences I've ever had. You will be able to have so much fun in terms of immersion, partying, women, and friendships. You will have a great time in Asia if you are young, white, and can speak the language. I can't argue anymore than this. Basically you have two sides of a coin. The responsible side that will work out 75% of the time, and the "fly on your free wings" side that leads nowhere. Just take a vacation to Japan for 3 months and then come back to reality. That will give you something to look forward to while you study Japanese at home. Why is it 2 years or nothing? You are basically advocating a 2 year long vacation. To think this is anything more than a vacation because you are coming out with some marginal skill is folly. I should add that after 2 months in Korea I seriously felt like I had done it all; like I was just back to normal living day to day (in before Rekrul LOL YOU THINK YOU DID IT ALL???). Mind you Korea is pretty small compared to Japan, but I see no reason for you to be there for 2 years. 2 months in Korea probably improved my Korean as much as the 16 months I studied before I went.
Well I did spend 1 month in tokyo last year. Half of that time all alone I might add and I was lucky enough to meet some people randomly and have one of the greatest times of my life. I don't agree that it's a 2 year vacation because I really think I have the dedication to learn the language on a deeper level, even if that requires hard studying long beyond my stay in japan. I think the hard part is getting a grip on what sort of benefits having a language skill has, but I'm sure there is some value to it. From what I've heard having lived in a foreign country itself can be a great merit in college/job applications as well. Still I can't deny that the experience itself is extremely tempting for me.
On March 23 2010 08:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
I've taken Japanese through school for ~6 years now (I'm in the final class at my uni), dated a Japanese chick for a year and still mail/skype some people I met there. The classes aren't that effective at teaching you what you really need to know/will use (unless the teacher is Japanese and stresses conversation over reading)
Learning it boils down to 3 things:
-Learning the vocabulary & connotations the words might have
-Learning the grammar forms & when they're appropriate
-Memorizing the exceptions
Beyond the language there are tons of cultural customs and tendencies developed throughout their history (in-group/out-group, gift & favor giving, levels of politeness) which alter the language based on situation. Before you go there get a grasp on these first or you're going to be confused and ignorant for a long time. If you're at a place with a consistent job and near a school, try finding out if you can host an exchange student. You'll save on money, gain on experience and have an invaluable study aid.
Thanks for your reply. I am aware that learning japanese is a huge challenge and isn't done just over the course of a year, which is sort of what makes this decision hard to make. It's pretty clear though that my first priority should be to get a decent grasp of the foundations back at home, before I venture to even think about moving to japan.
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On March 23 2010 08:26 illu wrote:
You got to be kidding me. It's not possible to master it in two years. It's an incredibly difficult language.
I have a friend of a friend learning it on full-time basis and still cannot master it. He is Chinese, too, so he already has an advantage. If you have no knowledge of other East-Asian languages, then you are pretty much screwed over trying to learn it in two years.
Unless you are a genius. But seeing that you didn't even go to university, I'd say you are not.
I don't expect to "master" it in 2 years, I understand that learning kanji and different degrees and nuances of formality takes far longer than that. About your remark about university which is completely ridiculous imo, I am going to university at some point. My grades are good enough to get me into whatever education I wish. I just don't think rushing yourself into taking some random education before you know anything about your real goals in life (and at 19, most people don't...) is a stupid move that could potentially be very expensive and unnecessarily time-consuming. The drop-out rate of swedes starting studies immediately after gymnasium are insane. 
Another option I have considered is in fact taking a 5 year course in economics at one of swedens best universities, that includes one year in japan as a foreign exchange student. I just don't know if that will have the same sort of reward, it's like either I dedicate myself to learning the language or I pass it up and do what most people would have done 2 years ago.
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Osaka27149 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain
... you are so right. I feel like have just been endlessly studying at a desk so I can have the priviledge of working at a desk. To be honest, I wish I would have been a carpenter.
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On March 23 2010 08:31 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 08:26 illu wrote:
You got to be kidding me. It's not possible to master it in two years. It's an incredibly difficult language.
I have a friend of a friend learning it on full-time basis and still cannot master it. He is Chinese, too, so he already has an advantage. If you have no knowledge of other East-Asian languages, then you are pretty much screwed over trying to learn it in two years.
Unless you are a genius. But seeing that you didn't even go to university, I'd say you are not. I don't expect to "master" it in 2 years, I understand that learning kanji and different degrees and nuances of formality takes far longer than that. About your remark about university which is completely ridiculous imo, I am going to university at some point. My grades are good enough to get me into whatever education I wish. I just don't think rushing yourself into taking some random education before you know anything about your real goals in life (and at 19, most people don't...) is a stupid move that could potentially be very expensive and unnecessarily time-consuming. The drop-out rate of swedes starting studies immediately after gymnasium are insane. Another option I have considered is in fact taking a 5 year course in economics at one of swedens best universities, that includes one year in japan as a foreign exchange student. I just don't know if that will have the same sort of reward, it's like either I dedicate myself to learning the language or I pass it up and do what most people would have done 2 years ago.
I still think going to Japan for 2 years to do this and that is a little bit far-fetched.
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As long as you have a way to get out of debt afterwards, do what you want. Living in a foreign country expands and objectifies your cognitive structure in so many immeasurable ways that you can't put onto the paper. Give yourself the experience, but do it sensibly.
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it definitely helps to have at least 1-2 years of studying the basics before going. If you don't even understand the basics, you won't be able to communicate with many native speakers, and others will use English to speak with you instead (giving you fewer opportunities to practice your Japanese). and because not many natives will communicate with you (in Japanese), then you'll resort to hanging out with fellow students/other foreigners, which means you'll be speaking English most of the time.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:32 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 07:48 baller wrote:
all these people with their cushy jobs and college degrees R just bitter and angry and jealous at ur youth and ur life options. they wish they had the balls to live life like it should be lived instead of like some cubicle rat. there is NO downside to living life like a true individual. dont conform like so many others youll just end up like them. dont listen 2 these haters, reach for the stars, with the rite attitude u can accomplish anything. no amount of money can buy ur kind of life happiness and freedom.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth."
-- Mark Twain ... you are so right. I feel like have just been endlessly studying at a desk so I can have the priviledge of working at a desk. To be honest, I wish I would have been a carpenter.
I think a carpenter is a sick career. You can build so much cool shit and fix your house up how you want. I'm super jealous of anyone with a trade skill.
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Realistically, in the future, Chinese is going to be a much more valuable language to know than Japanese.
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On March 23 2010 10:10 tomatriedes wrote:
Realistically, RIGHT NOW, Chinese is going to be a much more valuable language to know than Japanese.
I corrected it for you.
Honestly, if you're really looking to go to Japan for future financial/career decisions, it is probably not a smart decision. If you want to go there just to lay some Asian girls, I don't think you need to spend two years there nor learn the language.
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I wouldnt really recommend Tokyo either. Isnt that city fucking ridicolously expensive?
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On March 23 2010 11:32 Tenryu wrote:
I wouldnt really recommend Tokyo either. Isnt that city fucking ridicolously expensive?
Hm it wasn't that bad afaik but I haven't really decided where I'd want to go.
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Sure, learning japanese is fun, but in the end you come out with nothing other than being able to speak japanese. And there's a hell of a lot of japanese people that can already do that, so you need something to distinguish yourself. I'm doing a bachelor of arts now (second year) and I'm studying japanese and korean, and let me tell you, career prospects when I finish are pretty slim. It's basically translator/interpreter or teaching english in a foreign country. I'm considering getting a bachelor of business or something just because it's way more useful.
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Ok, I lived in non-french Canada all my life until age 19, worked a full year after highschool and am funding a trip similar to the one you are planning in Japan via my post highschool work. If you're going to make a 2 year commitment you absolutely must be able to understand it as it is spoken. I came here over confident and its been like 4 months and its still totally confusing to actually just have a real conversation because they will speak so quickly and lose confidence in my abilities and it gets tougher.
Your english is really good considering it must be a second language, so I think its fair to assume you have some talent. if you manage to feel like you're not wasting your time trying to learn it than it could be great. And it's also really true that there are so many ways to grow as a person with experiences like this.
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Do whatever you want, you are going to die someday.
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Look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you really really really want to do this. If the answer is a definite and defiant "fuck yeah" then sit down and figure out your plan for the next two years and beyond. How are you going to pay for it? How much are you going to study before going (1 year at least in my opinion)? And most importantly what are you going to do when you get back? How is this going to help your future? etc. etc. If it's worth it for you to do, then you owe it to yourself to do it right.
However, if your answer is anything less, then abandon this idea; It's just not worth it if you're only doing this for a vague "experience".
Spontaneity is good, just don't confuse it for stupidity.
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Learn Arabic, and Chinese = $$$$
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Osaka27149 Posts
There are some big dollars to be made teaching English in the middle east, especially if you have a graduate degree. If I didn't have a family that is where I would be headed. Of course, you have to live in the middle east, but still.
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If that's what you want to do then you might as well give it a try. If you don't like it, you can always return home and work/ go to college. If you wait until you have a stable career first then it'll be pretty much impossible to up and move to a foreign country, unless your company just randomly sends you there.
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On March 23 2010 13:54 Manifesto7 wrote:
There are some big dollars to be made teaching English in the middle east, especially if you have a graduate degree. If I didn't have a family that is where I would be headed. Of course, you have to live in the middle east, but still.
Off topic but why is this? I did see the occasional "teach English in the Middle East" job post.
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On March 23 2010 22:52 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 13:54 Manifesto7 wrote:
There are some big dollars to be made teaching English in the middle east, especially if you have a graduate degree. If I didn't have a family that is where I would be headed. Of course, you have to live in the middle east, but still. Off topic but why is this? I did see the occasional "teach English in the Middle East" job post.
Because assuming everything becomes stable in the Middle East, they will be ready to join the global market in areas other than oil and stuff that they already have a firm grasp on. There will be a huge demand for English teachers because English is the generally accepted 'global language'. If you are from a foreign country and are looking for a language to learn, English has the most opportunities tied to it.
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On another note, getting a student visa, or even a residential visa in Japan is pretty damn hard to get. In order to even apply for residential visa there, you need to prove you've at least lived there for 1 year consistently, which you can't do unless you already had student visa before that. Japanese laws are pretty strict for foreigners and even staying 1 day over than you're not supposed to, will get you banned from the country for 10 years. Learning Japanese is also pretty hard, I have spent like at least an average of 1-3 hours a day studying, for the past 13 months, and there's still so little that I know
But basically the only thing that pulls me along is my obsession with Japan and it's language. Do you have this kind of motivation? Btw 1 year costs like 10-20k USD to study at a university there. And if you're still really learning Japanese, P.M. me here at TL. I have a bunch of resources you can really benefit from. I wish you luck in your journey, for it is also one I plan to take.
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EPT
