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There are 12 million WoW players and counting. All you need to do to opt-in for the SC II is to have 1 Blizzard game.
Obviously a lot of those WoW players will opt-in for the SC II beta, and even though not all 12 million will opt-in, they still outnumber the number of StarCraft gamers.
So stop complaining OMG WOW GAYMERS SO LAME GETTIN THE SC II KEY BLIZZARD SUX BIAS it's just basic probability and statistics. There are more of them, so there is a higher probablity that a "WoW player" get's a key through random selection.
It's as simple as that. And all of you complaining should all be kissing Blizzard's ass instead of making TL look like a bunch of spoiled freaks who think they "deserve" a beta key.
If anything, the majority of you are D or D+ players who think they know what makes an amazing game but would probably just complain about a unit being OP once you get stomped by it. If anything, the people who really do "deserve" the beta are the top players if all you nerds are theorycrafting all the way up your ass. And don't reply "I'm C- or B+ nerd I can stomp you" yeah thats great but if you're complaining grow up.
Lz didn't get a key, that is the closest thing to "unfair" you will get in this situation, but that's life.
Anyway, I just wanted to vent since I rage easily at spoiled gamer nerds who think they're obligated to everything. I don't have a key yet and I admit I do mope and cry and beg for a key but to blaming Blizzard, WoW gamers, and even fellow TLers who got the beta key is just outright childish, and it definitely won't make the situation better. It just sucks we all have to wait, and that is all.
Also I raged at people getting 3 keys at once but shit sucks live with it.
/endrant
PS I still love you TL but sometimes I am disappoint.
  
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sorry but i dont want 15 APM Players crawling all over begging for UMS Maps to be made and complaining hard about making battles longer. YOU DONT WANT IT EITHER
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Well you also have to account for the Blizzcon 2008 attendees who went solely for non-SC purposes, and their 100% valid beta key card is probably sitting in some drawer collecting dust, completely forgotten.
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On February 24 2010 09:40 Kenpachi wrote:
sorry but i dont want 15 APM Players crawling all over begging for UMS Maps to be made and complaining hard about making battles longer. YOU DONT WANT IT EITHER
That's what the leagues are for.
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On February 24 2010 09:42 blabber wrote:
Well you also have to account for the Blizzcon 2008 attendees who went solely for non-SC purposes, and their 100% valid beta key card is probably sitting in some drawer collecting dust, completely forgotten.
I'm talking about opt-ins, you're describing a different situation.
We have to find those people, raid them, and take their keys.
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Like 95% of blizzcon attendees are WoW players. And a huge portion of beta keys were given to blizzcon attendees. Therefore, a huge portion of beta keys are given to WoW players.
And the fact that WoW has more people playing in it, which means there will be a higher chance for someone playing WoW to get chosen.
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There's a big difference between d/d+ iccupers and WoW players that do not understand the basics of rts at all.
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I tend to agree. However you're overreacting and basically complaining about the people that annoy you because they complain.
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If you even know what iccup is, chances are your feedback would be infinitely more valuable than some random wow player who never plays RTS games.
Just sayin
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On February 24 2010 09:39 WiljushkA wrote:
5 stars
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you're complaining about people that complain...
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On February 24 2010 10:04 prototype. wrote:
you're complaining about people that complain...
It was a rant to try to put out an opinion that was obviously the minority among users. JUST SAYIN' BRO DON'T HATE
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well, they obviously want more than the sc community to buy sc2 and wow is their closest connection to these people. wow players will most likely not help to make sc2 a better game during beta, but they sure can help spreading the word of how awesome it is among wow nerds, while starcraft nerds love for sc2 is pretty much a safe bet outside of korea at least.
i know its sad, but it makes perfectly sense for blizzard imho.
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The majority of Platinum players are those D+ 'noobs.' Don't be a hater cause you don't have a key.
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On February 24 2010 10:14 shindigs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 10:04 prototype. wrote:
you're complaining about people that complain... It was a rant to try to put out an opinion that was obviously the minority among users. JUST SAYIN' BRO DON'T HATE
being perfectly honest people on TL know what statistics are, and are very aware that they are outnumbered. They whine symbolically, and while it sucks not to have a key it is great to see more and more sc players receive them. As for SC players whining unjustly about imbalance in a unit after being stomped, that will happen it's true, but with much much less frequency than any other type of player, because sc players are used to getting stomped by one unit, due to this their natural reaction has become, to go on TL and as for a start/timing/BO to fix the problem.
With regards to your "don't complain to blizzard" point, you do realize that if TL had received a number of keys proportional to it's user base, or to it's standing among any sc site out there, instead of receiving the same amount of keys as 30 day old site made with the "sc2 site kit", players like LZ wouldn't be left with out a key, along with all the old school players that had to pay for their own ( at outrageous prices i might add). With this in mind, it is right to chastise blizzard, and any company where they go wrong, on the off chance that next time they will know better.
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I'm pretty sure as D+ player, I have a way better understanding of Starcraft than some random WoW person. My mechanics are quite poor because I've never been that fast (I cap out at around 130 APM, which was a huge improvement for me over what it used to be), but I could probably hit C- (at least the low end of it) on mostly knowledge if I seriously tried. Unfortunately the game quickly becomes not very fun for me if I try that hard.
I think you kind of underestimate the skill of some of the lower ranked players.
Also, I haven't whined. :d
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So much hate on WoW players..
You should realize they pay monthly fee, some for over 4+ years now, i think they deserve a spot.
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On February 24 2010 10:14 shindigs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 10:04 prototype. wrote:
you're complaining about people that complain... It was a rant to try to put out an opinion that was obviously the minority among users. JUST SAYIN' BRO DON'T HATE
lol nvm this post wasn't addressed to me rofl
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On February 24 2010 11:05 eNoq wrote:
So much hate on WoW players..
You should realize they pay monthly fee, some for over 4+ years now, i think they deserve a spot.
most of them wont even use the key
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5 stars
it's getting annoying seeing these whine posts every fucking time a beta key is mentioned~
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On February 24 2010 09:31 shindigs wrote:
There are 12 million WoW players and counting. All you need to do to opt-in for the SC II is to have 1 Blizzard game.
Obviously a lot of those WoW players will opt-in for the SC II beta, and even though not all 12 million will opt-in, they still outnumber the number of StarCraft gamers.
So stop complaining OMG WOW GAYMERS SO LAME GETTIN THE SC II KEY BLIZZARD SUX BIAS it's just basic probability and statistics. There are more of them, so there is a higher probablity that a "WoW player" get's a key through random selection.
It's as simple as that. And all of you complaining should all be kissing Blizzard's ass instead of making TL look like a bunch of spoiled freaks who think they "deserve" a beta key.
If anything, the majority of you are D or D+ players who think they know what makes an amazing game but would probably just complain about a unit being OP once you get stomped by it. If anything, the people who really do "deserve" the beta are the top players if all you nerds are theorycrafting all the way up your ass. And don't reply "I'm C- or B+ nerd I can stomp you" yeah thats great but if you're complaining grow up.
Lz didn't get a key, that is the closest thing to "unfair" you will get in this situation, but that's life.
Anyway, I just wanted to vent since I rage easily at spoiled gamer nerds who think they're obligated to everything. I don't have a key yet and I admit I do mope and cry and beg for a key but to blaming Blizzard, WoW gamers, and even fellow TLers who got the beta key is just outright childish, and it definitely won't make the situation better. It just sucks we all have to wait, and that is all.
Also I raged at people getting 3 keys at once but shit sucks live with it.
/endrant
PS I still love you TL but sometimes I am disappoint.
I approve of this blog 100%!
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If WoW players love SC2 and all go out and buy it, that's twelve million copies sold.
Game set match SC1 players lose.
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1/5
more wow players=more hackers/fmp players in the future
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I don't mind people complaining, but this post does say the base reason they get them. They are like 5 hatch zerglings. :O
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On February 24 2010 09:31 shindigs wrote:
It's as simple as that. And all of you complaining should all be kissing Blizzard's ass instead of making TL look like a bunch of spoiled freaks who think they "deserve" a beta key.
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We all know that and sometimes people take the rants way too seriously.
People are frustrated because they don't get to play their favorite game. And it's understandable that they tend to blame it on something else (which is the WoW players in this case). Hell everyone does it just for the sake of releasing your anger. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they don't cross the line.
P/S: I told my friend (a wow nerd) "Fuck you and your kind" once lol
P/S #2: And it's definitely Blizzard's plan to market SC2 to other herd of players. If you think about it, most if not all of the current SC players will DEFINITELY play SC2, with or without trying out the beta.
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Blizzard wants the opinion of all types of players, not just hardcore people from SC or another RTS. A ton of new people will flock over to SC2, and most of them will suck...but I doubt people on TL were pushing 250+ APM their first time playing.
Watching people try out the beta as their first real RTS can help them make the game easier to pick up. I know some people were complaining about the novice maps being bad, for example. I guess it can be frustrating to read how stupid some of the beta key holders are, but idiots are everywhere. No use in complaining, just keep praying for that beta key!
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On February 24 2010 10:34 zer0das wrote:
I'm pretty sure as D+ player, I have a way better understanding of Starcraft than some random WoW person. My mechanics are quite poor because I've never been that fast (I cap out at around 130 APM, which was a huge improvement for me over what it used to be), but I could probably hit C- (at least the low end of it) on mostly knowledge if I seriously tried. Unfortunately the game quickly becomes not very fun for me if I try that hard.
I think you kind of underestimate the skill of some of the lower ranked players.
Also, I haven't whined. :d
This is exactly it. Nobody cares about you having more potential at SCII than some WoW nerds. Its not about who "deserved" to be able to play in the beta. It was about Blizzard promoting their game, and "WoW nerds" "deserve" to play the beta more than you because they have, as a matter of fact, paid much more money towards Blizzard.
and that excuse for not being able to hit C- is quite lame, because frankly, the fact that you haven't committed to hitting C-, yet "care" enough about the beta contradicts your loyalty to blizzard.
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You better get used to it.
Just think what this game is going to be like when it is released for real. It's going to be rough for the next couple years when this happens.
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i was a bit disappointed about not recieving beta after being a blizz friend in tft beta and winning a season in wc3. but the demand is just so high they cant please everyone.
ill enjoy the game when i get. its not like being in beta translates into much except a chance to play the game a few months before it comes out.
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a D+ iccup player and a WoW player is a huge difference.
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On February 24 2010 11:49 esla_sol wrote:
i was a bit disappointed about not recieving beta after being a blizz friend in tft beta and winning a season in wc3. but the demand is just so high they cant please everyone.
ill enjoy the game when i get. its not like being in beta translates into much except a chance to play the game a few months before it comes out.
Now don't you jinx it please? =(
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On February 24 2010 11:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 11:05 eNoq wrote:
So much hate on WoW players..
You should realize they pay monthly fee, some for over 4+ years now, i think they deserve a spot. most of them wont even use the key
*hopefully*, but after being redirected by a friend who saw this and lol'd I frankly got scared.
After reading something like the first 6 paged trying to force myself to look away I was horrified at the thought that as soon as SC2 would hit retail and actual rank divisions would still have to form I just can't bring myself to walk among the piles of steaming shit that WoW-populated SC2 is going to be...
Also I would suggest that everyone would skimp through that thread and giggle at some of the quotes there, bear in mind that people posting there with golden icons are famous WoW players who happen to think for some unesplicable reason that they are good at games...
P.S. I'm not saying that I deserve a beta key more than those guys atm, not at all, I'm just saying that i'm honestly scared by the thought that not having followed anything from the SC2 forums except DAy9 daily if I will lose a few of the 10 ranking games because of lag or spending too much time experimenting/looking at the tech trees and then I'd end up in silver/copper league playing with those people I would much rather give my key away.
For me it all comes down to a matter of ingame "communities". I'm not complaining about WC3 players, nor about C&C nor about players coming from any other RTS, it's not even going to be a matter of what kind of game type the players who hit SC2 are going to be from, I just don't want to have to play with those retards.
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I agree with the post for the most part. My main argument would be that the majority of wow players would not be able to test this game at the level that it really needs to be tested. 90% of wow players probably couldn't even break 100 apm if they were trying their hardest. How does blizzard think they are getting any real testing done by inviting people who probably have no experience with RTS games?
Honestly, though, with the new matchmaking system, the top-end players are consistently playing against each other, which is what they really need for testing purposes, so it's not really a big deal.
Anyway, I probably won't get a key, and it sucks, but it's really just a waiting game. You're not going to miss out on going pro by not being able to play 6 months before everybody else. IMO most average TLers should be glad that more high-end gamers didn't get a key, so that they'll have a shot to catch up when it's released.
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Blizzard released a statement that so far it's mostly just server testing and seeing how much their network can handle. I think balance makes more sense once they stabilize the bnet servers and have a ton of people playing.
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Don't forget, for the WoW players to get a beta key, they have to actually opt-in (not including blizzcon) If they actually had no interest, they wouldn't opt int. If they did opt in, they'll probably use it.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2010 11:59 r33k wrote:
P.S. I'm not saying that I deserve a beta key more than those guys atm, not at all, I'm just saying that i'm honestly scared by the thought that not having followed anything from the SC2 forums except DAy9 daily if I will lose a few of the 10 ranking games because of lag or spending too much time experimenting/looking at the tech trees and then I'd end up in silver/copper league playing with those people I would much rather give my key away.
Wait, what? You're worried that because you're bad, you'll be forced to play against bad people.
The league system will work out. Just because you have to play a few noobstomps against bad players to advance to the next league is no reason to be dishing out hate. Players that legitimately deserve to move up, though, have and will be moved up. It's not perfect, but it's better than the current alternative of starting from the bottom. And if the games aren't noobstomps, that clearly means you aren't good enough to advance, which means the ranking games placed you correctly.
Of all the reasons to hate on SC2 and the beta, the league system is one of the most idiotic things to to it on.
On February 24 2010 12:58 deconduo wrote:
Don't forget, for the WoW players to get a beta key, they have to actually opt-in (not including blizzcon) If they actually had no interest, they wouldn't opt int. If they did opt in, they'll probably use it.
And even the Blizzcon users have to actually log in for them to affect the beta numbers. As has been stated before, Blizzard expands player numbers based on their server load: less Blizzcon keys getting used = more opt-ins in the next wave.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On February 24 2010 11:18 EmeraldSparks wrote:
If WoW players love SC2 and all go out and buy it, that's twelve million copies sold.
Game set match SC1 players lose.
bingo! remember folks, a bigger playerbase is ALWAYS better!
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Don't be ashamed of TL dissapointing you. MANY of the people here I cannot stand...but overall most people are alright. Its a Starcraft community so you are going to get alot of eliteist jerks and such...
I do disagree with the D+ level thing. I was D+ in SC1 but am tearing it up in SC2. I think everyone deserves a fair chance...and if you were willing to shell out to goto Blizzcon then you were rewarded with a key. I think that is a totally fair way to get keys to loyal fans.
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TL is elitist... there's really no way around it. We scoff at those who don't understand!
FakeSteve is right... I bitch and moan but Blizzard made the best choice.
But nevertheless, what I feel is not what I know... I feel that it's unfair and biased, but I know it is not.
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I think people sometimes forget the purpose of a beta is to test the game and make improvements for the final released edition. To that end, having more skilled players play is more beneficial to discovering balance issues etc. Having a bunch of people who are learning what a zealot is for the first time test the game is not an efficient way to go about it.
That said, the overarching purpose of creating a video game is to make money, which justifies blizzard catering to the masses of WoW players who are essentially a cash cow waiting to be milked.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2010 14:25 alphafuzard wrote:
I think people sometimes forget the purpose of a beta is to test the game and make improvements for the final released edition. To that end, having more skilled players play is more beneficial to discovering balance issues etc. Having a bunch of people who are learning what a zealot is for the first time test the game is not an efficient way to go about it.
That said, the overarching purpose of creating a video game is to make money, which justifies blizzard catering to the masses of WoW players who are essentially a cash cow waiting to be milked.
People forget that balance is not the only issue that Blizzard is trying to test here. Given that they're introducing multiple new mechanics to the game, the want to make sure that to an uninitiated player those mechanics are intuitive, interesting, and, most of all, fun. A veteran player has likely been exposed to the mechanics in multiple forms already (such as through all the preview articles that have come up on TL), and likely already have an entrenched opinion about them, positive or negative, even if they haven't played with them before. They're not ideal test subjects for testing that sort of thing.
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On February 24 2010 11:32 TheFrozenPhone wrote:
Watching people try out the beta as their first real RTS can help them make the game easier to pick up. I know some people were complaining about the novice maps being bad, for example. I guess it can be frustrating to read how stupid some of the beta key holders are, but idiots are everywhere. No use in complaining, just keep praying for that beta key!
Exactly. Blizzard wants SC2 to be fun for everyone. From people who might pick it up for a few hours a week to the competitive gamer.
That means that not only do they need to test the novice maps, they need to test the units among the unskilled. Asymmetric skill is a real problem. Take rushing, for example.
Defending a rush is much harder than executing one. And while that may be par for the course for a competitive player, it is exactly the kind of thing that they want to avoid.
So Blizzard needs to look at how things affect the players of lower skill too. They need to be able to make balance changes that will keep asymmetric skills like rushes under control in the low levels of play. This is just as important, if not moreso, for making SC2 a success as testing the high-level game. Why?
Because gaming has been, is, and always will be bottom up. SC1 achieved the heights it did in Korea because StarCraft was popular. Not every Korean was a great player. Most of them, especially early on, weren't much better than what the WoW players are in SC2. But what mattered is that they played the game. And they enjoyed playing it.
Skill level is like a pyramid. The Egyptians learned early on that there is a certain ratio you need to have between the width of the base of a pyramid and its height. Too narrow, and it will fall over and/or crumble.
A large base of players means that some of them will boil up from copper to bronze. Some of those will boil up from bronze to silver. And so on.
The next Jaedong or Flash may well be among the WoW players now. A player who wwas maybe 3 when SC1 came out, and are 14 now, never having been introduced to competitive RTS play. By the time they're 17-18, they'll be at the top of the Professional League.
Or Blizzard could ignore these people, and this potential master gets left in the cold.
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I don't want to complain but...not having a key makes me a sad bear 
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Why would Lzgamer get a key? I don't get it, he's a gamer sure but what?
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that and wow players will more likely buy the game because they not poor 8 year old kids who will most likely pirate the game and play on some dodgey emulated server
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On February 24 2010 14:59 NicolBolas wrote:
The next Jaedong or Flash may well be among the WoW players now. .
hahaha oh goodness
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That is more hilarious than entertaining.
I love the Blizz Forums.
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On February 24 2010 11:32 Nal_rAwr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 10:34 zer0das wrote:
I'm pretty sure as D+ player, I have a way better understanding of Starcraft than some random WoW person. My mechanics are quite poor because I've never been that fast (I cap out at around 130 APM, which was a huge improvement for me over what it used to be), but I could probably hit C- (at least the low end of it) on mostly knowledge if I seriously tried. Unfortunately the game quickly becomes not very fun for me if I try that hard.
I think you kind of underestimate the skill of some of the lower ranked players.
Also, I haven't whined. :d and that excuse for not being able to hit C- is quite lame, because frankly, the fact that you haven't committed to hitting C-, yet "care" enough about the beta contradicts your loyalty to blizzard.
It's not really an excuse. I've played the game for a decade on and off. I took a huge break, came back and hit D+ and played games for around a year with a friend, then went off to graduate school. I don't really see what rank has to do with loyalty (or how loyalty is even relevant?).
I never said I was more deserving of the beta, just that if the original poster is going to say "You suck! You're not much better than WoW players!" as an argument, that's a bit of a stretch. Maybe some of them will pick it up relatively quickly, but I get the feeling 90% of them won't. I don't particularly think that matters much, but that's probably just the way it will be.
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The thing I hate is that it seems people with blizzcon keys are still able to get an invite through opt in which is bullshit to me.
Everyone posting here loves starcraft, so people are going to complain about not getting a key. To those who have them you would be bitching and moaning like the rest of us if you didn't.
It is infuriating reading the official feedback forum and seeing all the bonehead suggestions from people who have no idea how not only starcraft plays but any RTS in general.
A blue post has said that a large number of invites won't even be used or become inactive and they will invite more and more people to fill the gap. So at least there is some semblance of hope I guess.
Edit: Look how many beta keys are up on ebay lol, shit is rediculous.
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Dominican Republic463 Posts
What about if you're a D+ WoW player?
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Norway28581 Posts
there's no problem with wow players getting keys due to how the sc2 beta works. they are going to listen more to people at the top of the ladder, nobody who got there from WoW is going to be at the top of the ladder.
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On February 25 2010 04:52 SwaY- wrote:
What about if you're a D+ WoW player?
i dont think people hate people who play WoW in general, but the kind that are obsessed with it. the hate is directed at the retards that basically never played rts, just raid all day long or some bullshit, get a key, and either let it rot, or get killed 5 times in a row and go 'this game is stupid and imbalanced fuck it im going back to raiding and eating chips off my belly'
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On February 25 2010 06:43 TheAntZ wrote:i dont think people hate people who play WoW in general, but the kind that are obsessed with it. the hate is directed at the retards that basically never played rts, just raid all day long or some bullshit, get a key, and either let it rot, or get killed 5 times in a row and go 'this game is stupid and imbalanced fuck it im going back to raiding and eating chips off my belly'
Two things:
1: Not having played an RTS does not make you a retard. The elitism of that idea is absolutely disgusting.
2: This is vital feedback for Blizzard. They want to get more people into RTS's. And that means finding ways to slowly nurture people along and introduce them to multiplayer in bite-sized chunks that they can handle.
If they're not having fun with SC2, then that is something Blizzard wants to fix.
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EPT
