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No matter what I do, I cannot grasp starcraft.
I have been on and off for about 2.5 years (mostly off). I have played all 3 races. If I follow a build order, I lose anyway, I don't know what it is.
My APM is around 120, with average redundancy and null actions. But I still suck.
I cheesed my way up to D+ as zerg (4/5pool, 9pool speed, 1 base lurkers, 3hatch mass hydra). That's the best I can do.
Any legit strategy and I'm toast. If the game goes past 5 minutes I've probably lost. I'm so fucking frustrated.
Today, I was 12hatching versus protoss and he blocked my natural with a pylon. Alt+X+X. That's how pissed I was...
If a protoss 2gates I lose ever single time. I even read the topics on how to deal with it. The problem is, if I make sunkens he runs by them into my main.
I feel like what I am doing now is counterproductive. Is there any way for me to improve without so much frustration?
This rant is coming off this game,probably the most humiliating game I have ever played. (I am the zerg)
 
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You are too concerned w/ the results of your matches. You don't get a cookie for winning, and in fact if you just sat down and played 500 matches, it doesn't matter if your winning or losing, your still going to be a much better player at the end.
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watch some more pro games and watch what the pro's do. then just try to copy it
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lol. i took the time to watch the replay. if that's the most humiliating game you've ever played then you haven't played many humiliating games =/=
When i was improving my friends frequently raped me with mass broodling/mass queens/mass das/mass nukes just to laugh at me. Now that i'm awesome and better at sc i can beat them 95% of the time
as for advice against 2gate..
it's ok if he attacks your buildings, you don't engage zealots with drones XD
you need to make 1/2 sunks if you just did something like letting your hatch go down to half hp while you get a bunch of zerglings. Or when he's not anywhere close to your base instead of getting a bunch of lings get like 4 to 8 sunkens( depending on when he's attacking) and block your ramp with lings
Another thing, when you've clearly lost the game and have no chance of coming back to win you should just gg and leave don't be stubborn like i was and try to win 1 base against 10.
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the fact that Starcraft is the most competitive video game ever created could be escaping your attention. You have been on and off for about 2.5 years (mostly off). Maybe D/D+ players just practice more than you. D/D+ players are NOT necessarily horrible.. some of them are actually quite good...its just that C- users themselves are kinda good. Practice more. Play more. Win more. Talk less.
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"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." -- M. Jordan.
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Don't miss ovies, make that your number 1 priority. Figure out when you're supposed to make ovies beyond the 9/9 and 17/18 marks (in single player), try to have a number ready all the way up to the 60s. Build orders are completely useless if you miss more than one ovie. (e.g. 3 hatch muta against terran, if you miss 1 ovie your lings + sunken will be late and you might just die to 1 group of mnm, missing 2 basically means useless mutas that run head straight into turrets, late hydra den, and you get rolled by mid game push) Missing 1-2 ovie hurts, missing 3+ basically cripples your entire game and you'll get rolled like that replay and will never get past the win with cheese stage.
Oh, and don't 12 hatch on python.
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This might sound stupid since you are playing for so long and I've only starting actually playing a month ago, but my mindset changed from win and be as competative, to more humble (d-/d atm);
- play to improve, not to win or get a certain rank
- follow the one map, one strategy rule
- chose a strategy that relies on a lategame
- watch day9, there you'll understand that you should focus on establishing a midgame plan. If you have to deviate from your normal plan duo to proxy pylon, 2 gates or anything, just think to adjust and continue with your gameplan. No need for perfect counters just now.
If you can play a decent macro game, you'll be getting all the way to D+ reliably (keep in mind you only need 28% winrate to get to C- playing motw)
funsies : a hero http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/dpakrhrh.html
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 08 2010 13:54 Count9 wrote:
Oh, and don't 12 hatch on python.
Don't listen to this guy. He has no idea what he's talking about.
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Ok, first off, I'm going to tell you that one thread won't help enough. What you need is to have someone play with you, talk you through it, give you tips while you play, etc, etc. Talk to you about strategies. Just immerse yourself in the game, watch more games from the very start, play play/ob games on bnet (eh not that great but depending on your level, talking to people can help somewhat).
I'm not sure how much you know, how much effort you've put it, nor how you've tried to learn the game so I'm just going to say that you probably haven't done everything you could have done OR you haven't done it long enough.
Just keep trekking
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On January 08 2010 13:50 Poriyan1 wrote:
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." -- M. Jordan.
The reason Michael Jordan succeeded was because in some random year he could tell you exactly how many game winning shots he had missed in his career. And I'm sure that it pissed him off and motivated him every time he thought about it (which was probably quite often).
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Actually I've seen so many people get better at starcraft by not playing it for a while. At first I thought it was an absurd notion, but every time, when the person I know stops playing then comes back and practice a bit, they are much better than before.
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Just chill and enjoy the game. Even D rank players are considered very good at RTS from a casual point of view and you can probably do pretty well on Bnet. That is assuming you're a solid D from playing standard.
Stop cheesing, play standard and have some fun.
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I picked up the game in 2003... Barely can play low D TvZ.
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If you 12 hatch on a 4 player map you know there's a 33% chance that your hatch will be pylon blocked in most ZvPs and there's nothing you can do about it? Why insta leave?
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you are taking losses the wrong way, and don't cheese.
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I see what you mean.
After watching the replay and reading your post, the main thing holding you back isn't in your hands but in your head - you nerves get to you when you're under pressure and you have trouble staying calm.
You're not alone though, this is a problem that a lot of players of all levels have to deal with (especially pros on televised games).
When you scouted the 2 gate (or even if you didn't, but if you felt early pressure was coming), you should have saved up 3 larvae instead of 2, so you would get 6 lings immediately instead of just 4.
Then as you go, pay attention to the number of zealots coming in and make just enough lings to hold them off until you can get your sunken up and block the ramp.
What you did instead was panic. You sent out all but one of your drones to fend off the initial 1 zealot + 2 probe rush/early pressure/harass and he simply outmicroed you and made you waste precious mining time. Then you made way too many creep colonies and attempted to morph them all into sunkens while they were being attacked. By the time they finished morphing they were dead.
Of course the downside was that he ran up your ramp into your main, but you didn't need to waste the 2 drone + 150 minerals to make those two creeps that died.
You could have spent the minerals making zerglings (you had 5 larvae unused, 150 minerals spent on creep colonies, and 98 minerals unused at that specific moment), and although yes they take time to hatch and your main is being prodded, stay calm and let it happen. Leave two to block the ramp and prevent reinforcements and take the rest and do a proper surround and get rid of the intruders.
You probably also noticed your own over-reaction when you made 3 creep colonies but realized you only needed to morph one.
The rest of the game was just your opponent being bm and messing with you. The game was over after the first 5 minutes, though maybe a slim chance of a comeback if he made a big mistake or you managed to miraculously prevent him from expanding all over the map.
Perhaps if he didn't tell you to leave by saying "re?" you would have left by yourself, but stayed behind because of his bm.
Another example of you panicking is when he sent a scout into your main to distract you. You fell for it, made two spore colonies (for just a single scout) meanwhile your front gets stormed and 1a2a3a-ed (though by now it didn't matter because the game was over anyway).
But ya, as the other posters have said before me, just relax and let a loss be a loss.
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On January 08 2010 13:50 Poriyan1 wrote:
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." -- M. Jordan.
The reason Michael Jordan succeeded was because he had Dennis Rodman with him. God people not giving credit where credit is due.
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On January 08 2010 13:18 JadeFist wrote:
I have been on and off for about 2.5 years (mostly off). I have played all 3 races. If I follow a build order, I lose anyway, I don't know what it is.
That's why you lose, 80% of improving is knowing why you lose.
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Why do you want so badly to be better? It is certainly a difficult game to be "good" at.
Serious question though, have a proper think about this and you will either resolve to train more effectively - e.g. studying reps/practising more - or you will just start playing for fun (like a lot of people who get frustrated at laddering).
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On January 08 2010 15:35 jello24 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 13:50 Poriyan1 wrote:
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." -- M. Jordan. The reason Michael Jordan succeeded was because he had Dennis Rodman with him. God people not giving credit where credit is due.
psh no... it was Scotty Pippin.
OP: SC is damn hard t.t Try playing people close to your own level and gradually learn from your losses. Or just don't worry about being a good 1v1er because it's kinda ridiculous. Team games ftw!! And FFAs.
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Watched your replay. When the zealots first moved in and you were microing drones, you let your mins build up to 300 and you had 3+ idle larvae. Your zerglings could have been out several seconds sooner, which may have saved you.
I also would have used drones to block ramp as sunken was finishing, assuming you're aware of the threat of a runby (now you are). This plus faster lings and I think you would have held off the aggression pretty well.
Edit: Fast forwarding through the rest, it looks like you have a lot of idle larvae throughout the game. This is the equivalent of terran barracks not flashing or protoss gates not pumping -- it's slowing you down.
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On January 08 2010 16:57 Bill Murray wrote:
you gotta skate
If for some reason I knew where you lived, I would find you, and hurt you.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 08 2010 15:30 Glaucus wrote:
If you 12 hatch on a 4 player map you know there's a 33% chance that your hatch will be pylon blocked in most ZvPs and there's nothing you can do about it? Why insta leave?
Do you mean why not insta leave? Well you could make a pool as soon as you determine that your gonna get blocked. and your opponent will have to go forge cannon cannon before nexus if he plyon blocked you.
Don't remember that there's 33% chance that your opponent will scout you late and have to build a forge against your 12 hatch.
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If you are going to 12 hatch then you better also figure out what you are going to end up doing 33% of the time instead of just leaving without trying those 33%.
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I'm kinda in your boat too. I was a pretty avid player like 3-4 years back, but then I picked up DotA. Now, I'm trying to learn SC again, and at first, I had absolutely no clue what to do. No matter how many games I played, I only got negligibly better because I didn't understand what I was doing wrong. The fastest way to get better is to have someone play/obs with you and coach you on what to do. Luckily, I have Empyrean for this  There are way too many aspects of the game to be making a thread for every detail you have a question with. Try the TL channel or ask someone to coach you. That's what I'm doing, and it's working pretty well. Good luck.
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i watched your replay, and, like it`s already been said before, you totally overreacted.
vs. 2gate you have to spend the money very wisely, cause you need to squeeze out a drone whenever possible. morphing 7 sunks at your nat and about 3-4 sunks in your main (which got easily killed) was absolutely the wrong decision. when you scout 2gate close position just keep cool, try to block the ramp to prevent runby and get exactly the amount of lings you need to survive. add sunkens if necessary (most of the time, 2-3 should definitely be enough)
it's kinda hard to balance drones and lings, but if you get a feeling for it, you'll be able to counter-attack the protoss with your initial tech (I prefer lurks vs. zeal heavy builds)
and spare larvae really fuck up your macro. don't let that happen.
I'm just a D+ zerg, but I hope I could help. 
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On January 08 2010 14:17 T.O.P. wrote:Don't listen to this guy. He has no idea what he's talking about.
It's not terrible advice. Python has really close rush distances so 2gate is really strong (and popular). Plus with overpool/9pool you force cannons and way way later corsair if he goes FE.
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On January 09 2010 03:14 TimmyMac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:17 T.O.P. wrote:On January 08 2010 13:54 Count9 wrote:
Oh, and don't 12 hatch on python. Don't listen to this guy. He has no idea what he's talking about. It's not terrible advice. Python has really close rush distances so 2gate is really strong (and popular). Plus with overpool/9pool you force cannons and way way later corsair if he goes FE.
And how is pool first is superior against 2 gate, then?
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
I've played Starcraft since it's release (even before Brood War).
I played it for 9 years while at D- level without feeling any of this, because it was fun. I went stupid, crazy random strategies and won and had fun.
Then one day somewhere early last year, I decided to play on iCCup near the end of a season. Tried to play 'standard' games. Faced the same obstacle (as a Terran though) as you. Lost most of my games. Ended first season at D-. (proof: http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/Konata.Izumi.html)
But I still kept playing, because I knew if I kept playing, I'll improve in the end no matter what the current results. I initially lost a lot in the next season, but somehow, surely, my APM was improving. My in-game 'sense' of timing and what I should do slowly accumulated. That made me even more excited to play my next game.
"Will I play better this time? Will I have better reactions?"
And each time I thought I played better, I felt awesome. Never did I feel so much more excited playing a game.
And with each passing season, everything improved. Slowly, gradually, certainly.
I'm sure it'll be the same for you.
Never give up.
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Thanks for all the responses. They helped a lot.
I just switched to Terran and I am playing only standard and I don't get upset when I lose. I have the mindset to play to improve.
I just won 2 games on iccup against legit players. Feeling good.
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
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On January 09 2010 03:18 Piretes wrote:
And how is pool first is superior against 2 gate, then?
Exactly right. Sunkens and a lot or larvae to make a lot of lings is what beats a 2 gate. And 1 gate tech makes no sense. You are going to have to make that hatch at your natural anyway. And the earlier you do the earlier you can place your sunkens. They are useless in your main.
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noob question. can anyone tell me the W/L ratio of how your alphabetic ranking?
ive only been playing for around 2 weeks so be nice please. :D
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Ya SC is hard, especially when it's been out for so long. Everyone masters it now!
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Why did he bump my old topic? And he has 1 post count?
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On February 03 2010 13:21 PawnSauce wrote:
noob question. can anyone tell me the W/L ratio of how your alphabetic ranking?
ive only been playing for around 2 weeks so be nice please. :D
It depends on how many points you have gained/lost, you start a 1000.
Link to Rankin System
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If you're leaving games and getting angry at the D levels you should find a new game to play because it only gets harder as you go up in ranks. I've hit A- in 4 seasons so far and been one game from A and then lost 3 in a row. If i dodged people and picked low win % opponents I'm sure I could have hit A by now, but i love to play people who are say 75%+ win because I know they will help me test my abilities the best.
iron sharpens iron... keep practicing!
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Ask machinehead for further advices/ training gogogo
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EPT
