EPTI feel like making a micro map. Describe what you want and I'll try to make it (the more detail, the sooner it starts--you design it, i'll make it). If there's an existing map that you want to use for an example, try to link it, and say what you want different from it/same from it.
I can probably make comps do pretty good micro against you, more than you expect, or I can make player vs player if you want. Just give me your ideas, and I'll make them and post them here, if they don't require a ridiculous amount of work (even then you have a chance).
While you're at it, any UMS maps you would like to see made that involve melee skills or non-modified BW units (i.e. TMA), if you have enough ideas to make a new map, list it here, and I'll make 'em one by one.
Suggestions so far/responses/questions pending (I'll put everything here and then work on something--status of any of it below):
Good ideas, but I need specifics because coming up with them on my own would be time consuming. I'll try to make the maps easy to edit so you can balance them yourself if you'd like.
1. Established bases/various win condition maps: (mid/lategame macro type):
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Would be helpful if you could show me a couple replays of model midgames you'd like it to emulate, or tell me how many buildings.
-Could each player simply start with a certain amount of buildings/supplies/workers but no minerals to mine but instead gets resources/time equivalent to whatever economy, and the goal is to destroy a certain amt of eachothers' buildings, or should one be the attacker, one the defender? otherwise it lends itself to defense too much. or do they both teleport to an arena to fight at a set time? or a random, unknown time?
-currently making this. got pvz almost ready for testing, waiting for a few people to answer me back on some details, then i have to start bugging them for the remaining matchups: tvz, tvp--and eventually, maybe mirrors.
Some of this can't be done. Triggers can't tell if you pull off an EMP. If the toss gets units into the base, or the arb dies, both of these can be detected. What base do you have in mind, and what are they pushing against? Are you talking about the toss and terran both starting with established bases (whiich reset) and the goal of the toss is to get X units inside the T base, the goal of the terran is to reach the protoss base without this occuring and/or kill the arbiter(s)? If so, show me what base/buildings you want (a rep, an illustration, a vod, etc.)
-Besides the EMP thing and the uncertainty of what the bases should be, this could be started right away.
update: talked more in thread, seems unlikely i will make this at this time, unless what i understand about what he wants changes from now. i would like to offer, as a consellation, perhaps we could have a 1v1 situation set up (human vs human) where the protoss player has a recall ready to go and the terran is making a decent push. to get this fair, we need a replay to model it after.
2. Pick your units and fight
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This would be hard to balance, but I could do it. This sounds surprisingly straightforward, but I haven't seen it done (recently). Micro tournament has a custom mode but it's probably not balanced, just lets people do whatever. I think the problem would be that unless perfectly balanced it would be more about choosing the right units than microing. Still, this I could make in some format. Let me see what others have to say about this and other ideas before starting it.
-This could be started right away, but early versions will probably be more about abusing which unit choices are best/guessing what units your opponent will do. How do you propose we address this? Should they not see what opponents they choose? Or see, but not be sure which person they'll go up against? Or take turns choosing units with their opponent, couple civs at a time?
-Also, should players be restricted to only using 1 race's units? And can we leave out some units (the more units, more work/balancing will be harder)?
**-realized he may have meant pick what you fight, i.e. comps units vs yours. If so, please reply and I can do this.
awaiting replies before pursuing this one further. midgame pvz started. can adapt to pvt tvz zvz pvp tvt as details are provided (currently trying to ask around).
3. A new micro tourney
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This already exists, so what do you want done differently? What levels do you want?
Okay, so a micro tourney but various terrain battlegrounds. Maybe certain areas from certain maps? You guys choose them, what kind of battles and I could do it.
-This cannot be started yet.
awaiting replies before pursuing this one further. not going to make without more info
4. Micro fights (possible to combine with other ideas if you want) of the large variety
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Yeah, this would be great, but I need specifics. Unit counts or replays. You design it (little more detail), I'll make it.
-This might fit in with the mid-game type map that I'm making, but be a "late game" version of it. It's not exactly what you said in the first paragraph, but it is more like the second paragraph ("macro situation"). This is basically Megalisk's suggestion (minus the "choice" thing, which is more like idea #2):
Some replays of what situations you're talking about, or specific unit counts, would be great. Otherwise I don't know if what I would make would really be useful.
-This cannot be started yet. This can be extremely simple to execute, just give me a replay and tell me what time you want to be the scenario played from. It can be achieved with save games true, but having a standard go around and get tweaked to perfection would really be nice. Just give me a rep and tell me what at what time the game should start.
Yeah this can be a late game version of the mid-game thing I'm currently working on (#1). Perhaps #1 will give people who want this something, and after I complete that, I can work on more of a balanced lategame version or implement a lategame option. probably start this (lategame) after midgame thing is settled.
5. strong FD simulator for the first push
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By single player you mean a comp controls the protoss? What do the first goons do? Attack or run away or what? This sounds very cool, although if you mean a comp then I think the reaver-shuttle will be tricky/the rest would be pretty easy. The timing would only be true-to-game if it was based on replays though.
I could probably start working on this as soon as there is time. Giving a replay with the timing would start it sooner, though. This is the second or third thing I'll make, I guess. I started making this, but need more info to get the timing right, and then I'll have to work on making the comp micro decently (reavers will be hard).
6. preset bases multitasking map
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-For preset bases, I need something to work with like replays etc. This is somewhat being offerred with project #1 (mid-game setups) or project #4 (late-game setups), which are kind of in-the-queue.
-Maps can't tell when a unit or structure completes. Can't do this.
-Handicaps and starting with a set midgame are cool and compatible with other ideas though. Good features to include on many of these ideas. Could offer options like this eventually in the other projects i.e. #1, #4. Further feedback needed on whether you want something different than what is planned for those. handicaps will be put into the maps above, but other than that this isn't being made unless i get more details. i think the midgame and lategame maps will satisfy this mostly.
7. dropship hero: episode scourge
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This I can do. I could have the scourge be slowed by devourer spores or maybe ensnare (not sure, never tried to make a comp ensnare something but I will look it up.) Other than that, can't adjust scourge speed. Will this be okay?
This is in the queue I guess. I'll do this sometime. This is in the queue.
8. muta micro gone wild
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If you mean comp mutas then I'm not sure vision is the way to achieve this, but it can be done. What you (or I) would do is alternate attack with "send all units on random suicide missions" at a good precise timing, mixing in move as well. I think it's possible to make ridiculously hard comp hydras, goons, zealots, mutas, at least. however, sometimes they get frozen like goons do. In the queue.
9. encyclopedia splitannica
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are the targets mixed in with non-targets? sci's start at a set distance, must kill all defilers/ultras to win, scis only get one shot from a set distance or what? This can be done but the scenerio has to be spelled out more. For instance, zealots vs tanks could be done, just make a level where the tanks all have 1 hp but they must die before a set time or the zealot guy loses. Scourge to stack mutas again, make the mutas injured and see how many you can kill with your scourge. Are these acceptable levels to you? Similar with irradiate, a time limit would force them to get it at one split, with the distance being the difficulty, but if you want other units mixed in then it's going to be more challenging. Let me know.
I'm kind of waiting on more discussion before putting this in the queue, because maybe people don't really want this as much as the other stuff, compared to how much design work it would be to get it right. Kind of going to skip this one unless I get more specific requests from multiple people. I could do it, but I'd put it last.
10. early game scenarios
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I can make this right away if you show me a model rep of what situation(s) you want.
This can be incredibly fun. I would like to make this. It's in the queue, but I need people to pinpoint specific timings from specific replays that they'd like to see, otherwise I have to wait for my sources to get to this, and that won't be until after #1 and #4 are done. I want to make this, but need more information to do it.
11. rig custom levels for player1 in micro tournament
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i'll get that map and see how the triggers look.
update: I looked at the triggers. So far I've only found a way to do it that would ruin the game if red leaves. Going to look more at the triggers next time I take a stab at making maps here.
Unsuccessful so far, but while I was brushing my teeth I figured out a way. Gonna take another stab at it. I should have finished this by now. Any time now, gonna be finished.
Good ideas, but I need specifics because coming up with them on my own would be time consuming. I'll try to make the maps easy to edit so you can balance them yourself if you'd like.
1. Established bases/various win condition maps: (mid/lategame macro type):
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On January 05 2010 10:13 Rainbow wrote:
Try making a player vs player where you just need to macro hard and then go battle. Kind of like a melee game, except the game resets to the mid-game whenever the battle is over. There could be town halls and production buildings, and harass just like a normal match-up. :D
Try making a player vs player where you just need to macro hard and then go battle. Kind of like a melee game, except the game resets to the mid-game whenever the battle is over. There could be town halls and production buildings, and harass just like a normal match-up. :D
Would be helpful if you could show me a couple replays of model midgames you'd like it to emulate, or tell me how many buildings.
-Could each player simply start with a certain amount of buildings/supplies/workers but no minerals to mine but instead gets resources/time equivalent to whatever economy, and the goal is to destroy a certain amt of eachothers' buildings, or should one be the attacker, one the defender? otherwise it lends itself to defense too much. or do they both teleport to an arena to fight at a set time? or a random, unknown time?
-currently making this. got pvz almost ready for testing, waiting for a few people to answer me back on some details, then i have to start bugging them for the remaining matchups: tvz, tvp--and eventually, maybe mirrors.
On January 05 2010 10:49 caldo149 wrote:
Try to make a Recall defense map for Terran where you need to try to stop a recall while pushing out. If you don't stop it then you need to decide to continue to push or defend it. Try to have it Recall in different places each time you play. Have the map give rewards for EMP-ing Arbiters or killing them before the Recall. This would be great to improve minimap attention.
Try to make a Recall defense map for Terran where you need to try to stop a recall while pushing out. If you don't stop it then you need to decide to continue to push or defend it. Try to have it Recall in different places each time you play. Have the map give rewards for EMP-ing Arbiters or killing them before the Recall. This would be great to improve minimap attention.
Some of this can't be done. Triggers can't tell if you pull off an EMP. If the toss gets units into the base, or the arb dies, both of these can be detected. What base do you have in mind, and what are they pushing against? Are you talking about the toss and terran both starting with established bases (whiich reset) and the goal of the toss is to get X units inside the T base, the goal of the terran is to reach the protoss base without this occuring and/or kill the arbiter(s)? If so, show me what base/buildings you want (a rep, an illustration, a vod, etc.)
-Besides the EMP thing and the uncertainty of what the bases should be, this could be started right away.
update: talked more in thread, seems unlikely i will make this at this time, unless what i understand about what he wants changes from now. i would like to offer, as a consellation, perhaps we could have a 1v1 situation set up (human vs human) where the protoss player has a recall ready to go and the terran is making a decent push. to get this fair, we need a replay to model it after.
2. Pick your units and fight
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On January 05 2010 10:47 Trozz wrote:
A map idea:
You pick what you want to use,
and pick what you fight.
Use civs and beacons.
Have a reset option too.
Just a suggestion.
A map idea:
You pick what you want to use,
and pick what you fight.
Use civs and beacons.
Have a reset option too.
Just a suggestion.
This would be hard to balance, but I could do it. This sounds surprisingly straightforward, but I haven't seen it done (recently). Micro tournament has a custom mode but it's probably not balanced, just lets people do whatever. I think the problem would be that unless perfectly balanced it would be more about choosing the right units than microing. Still, this I could make in some format. Let me see what others have to say about this and other ideas before starting it.
-This could be started right away, but early versions will probably be more about abusing which unit choices are best/guessing what units your opponent will do. How do you propose we address this? Should they not see what opponents they choose? Or see, but not be sure which person they'll go up against? Or take turns choosing units with their opponent, couple civs at a time?
-Also, should players be restricted to only using 1 race's units? And can we leave out some units (the more units, more work/balancing will be harder)?
**-realized he may have meant pick what you fight, i.e. comps units vs yours. If so, please reply and I can do this.
awaiting replies before pursuing this one further.
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On January 05 2010 10:15 TeH_Mentalist wrote:
How about try to make something similar to Micro tourney thing. Up to 8 players battle it out head to head in scripted scenarios. You are given a bunch of units, and you gain points for winning against the other person and u battle it out in a box
How about try to make something similar to Micro tourney thing. Up to 8 players battle it out head to head in scripted scenarios. You are given a bunch of units, and you gain points for winning against the other person and u battle it out in a box
This already exists, so what do you want done differently? What levels do you want?
On January 05 2010 10:18 Xeofreestyler wrote:
How about working further on just ' a box ' and actually making different interesting terrains?
How about working further on just ' a box ' and actually making different interesting terrains?
Okay, so a micro tourney but various terrain battlegrounds. Maybe certain areas from certain maps? You guys choose them, what kind of battles and I could do it.
-This cannot be started yet.
awaiting replies before pursuing this one further.
4. Micro fights (possible to combine with other ideas if you want) of the large variety
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On January 05 2010 10:32 ilovezil wrote:
I've always wanted a map where you can practice legitimate large army/mixed composition micros that may potentially show up in real games, like DA/archon/templar/goons/zeals vs filers/lings/hydras/ultras.
Problem is, I wouldn't know how a UMS map would live up to properly simulate a legitimate situation where these would occur. I guess you'd need to somehow implement a macro situation, with mixed terrain battleground according to recent maps, plus somehow learn the right amount of units to mix into a large late-game army composition. If you could somehow make this kind of map, it'd be awesome!
I've always wanted a map where you can practice legitimate large army/mixed composition micros that may potentially show up in real games, like DA/archon/templar/goons/zeals vs filers/lings/hydras/ultras.
Problem is, I wouldn't know how a UMS map would live up to properly simulate a legitimate situation where these would occur. I guess you'd need to somehow implement a macro situation, with mixed terrain battleground according to recent maps, plus somehow learn the right amount of units to mix into a large late-game army composition. If you could somehow make this kind of map, it'd be awesome!
Yeah, this would be great, but I need specifics. Unit counts or replays. You design it (little more detail), I'll make it.
-This might fit in with the mid-game type map that I'm making, but be a "late game" version of it. It's not exactly what you said in the first paragraph, but it is more like the second paragraph ("macro situation"). This is basically Megalisk's suggestion (minus the "choice" thing, which is more like idea #2):
On January 05 2010 10:18 Megalisk wrote:
A player vs. Player micro map of late game ZvT.
I want a better method of practicing defiler micro, maybe make it so that players can choose the units which their army will include.
A player vs. Player micro map of late game ZvT.
I want a better method of practicing defiler micro, maybe make it so that players can choose the units which their army will include.
Some replays of what situations you're talking about, or specific unit counts, would be great. Otherwise I don't know if what I would make would really be useful.
On January 05 2010 15:26 ShinyGerbil wrote:
I've been thinking about Megalisk's idea for a long time now, and I think it can be extended to other matchups as well. Basically, every single game you get to practice your split, but how many games (especially on the cheese-fest known as iCCup) get to the 20 minute mark with no significant advantage on either side, leading to a game-deciding late game? For people who want to practice this, the map could be set up as the most standard openings for both sides and assuming they both played equally well.
e.g. ZvT, zerg has 3 bases, hive tech, +1 carapace, and a smallish lurker-ling defiler army. terran has 2 bases, 4 tanks, 2 vessels, a handful of m&m and +2 upgrades. or something like that. Basically, the intensity begins from the start, as opposed to 15 minutes into the game :D
I've been thinking about Megalisk's idea for a long time now, and I think it can be extended to other matchups as well. Basically, every single game you get to practice your split, but how many games (especially on the cheese-fest known as iCCup) get to the 20 minute mark with no significant advantage on either side, leading to a game-deciding late game? For people who want to practice this, the map could be set up as the most standard openings for both sides and assuming they both played equally well.
e.g. ZvT, zerg has 3 bases, hive tech, +1 carapace, and a smallish lurker-ling defiler army. terran has 2 bases, 4 tanks, 2 vessels, a handful of m&m and +2 upgrades. or something like that. Basically, the intensity begins from the start, as opposed to 15 minutes into the game :D
-This cannot be started yet. This can be extremely simple to execute, just give me a replay and tell me what time you want to be the scenario played from. It can be achieved with save games true, but having a standard go around and get tweaked to perfection would really be nice. Just give me a rep and tell me what at what time the game should start.
Yeah this can be a late game version of the mid-game thing I'm currently working on (#1). Perhaps #1 will give people who want this something, and after I complete that, I can work on more of a balanced lategame version or implement a lategame option.
5. strong FD simulator for the first push
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On January 05 2010 13:54 coltrane wrote:
I want a strong FD simulator for the first push.
This is, you start leaving your base with 6 marines and one tank, and you get 1 slow vulture with mines at time from here. You encounter 1 goon, then 2 more in the way. At time you reach protoss base he has either 5 ranged goons, 3 goons and 2 dts or 3 goons and a reaver in a shuttle. You should have the remaining units and the constantly added vultures.
The thing is you could reset the map to the begining.
Could you make both? single and multiplayer? And with obs should be great.
I want a strong FD simulator for the first push.
This is, you start leaving your base with 6 marines and one tank, and you get 1 slow vulture with mines at time from here. You encounter 1 goon, then 2 more in the way. At time you reach protoss base he has either 5 ranged goons, 3 goons and 2 dts or 3 goons and a reaver in a shuttle. You should have the remaining units and the constantly added vultures.
The thing is you could reset the map to the begining.
Could you make both? single and multiplayer? And with obs should be great.
By single player you mean a comp controls the protoss? What do the first goons do? Attack or run away or what? This sounds very cool, although if you mean a comp then I think the reaver-shuttle will be tricky/the rest would be pretty easy. The timing would only be true-to-game if it was based on replays though.
I could probably start working on this as soon as there is time. Giving a replay with the timing would start it sooner, though. This is the second or third thing I'll make, I guess.
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On January 05 2010 14:00 imBLIND wrote:
Forced multitasking melee map. Take a normal melee map, say python.
Either allow players to play normally and make their own base or preset up a mid game base and allow them to play from there.
Every time a unit or a structure completes, force the screen back to the last action completed regardless of what else they're doing. This will get players used to switching screens a lot and eventually they'll get the timing of units/buildings. The player will have to learn to go back before the screen switches so they don't get caught off guard by a switch during intense micro.
It'll be useful to some degree for most players, and the most useful for the spammers that just happen to suck even though they're really fast. It's gonna be a pain in the butt for anyone that uses hotkeys to make units though...
Maybe you could put other fun handicaps in too, like 1 person starting with 3 miners instead of four, population limits, tech limits, resource limits, etc etc.
I kno this isn't exactly a micro map..but all the other micro maps are pretty generic and i had no other ideas =p
Forced multitasking melee map. Take a normal melee map, say python.
Either allow players to play normally and make their own base or preset up a mid game base and allow them to play from there.
Every time a unit or a structure completes, force the screen back to the last action completed regardless of what else they're doing. This will get players used to switching screens a lot and eventually they'll get the timing of units/buildings. The player will have to learn to go back before the screen switches so they don't get caught off guard by a switch during intense micro.
It'll be useful to some degree for most players, and the most useful for the spammers that just happen to suck even though they're really fast. It's gonna be a pain in the butt for anyone that uses hotkeys to make units though...
Maybe you could put other fun handicaps in too, like 1 person starting with 3 miners instead of four, population limits, tech limits, resource limits, etc etc.
I kno this isn't exactly a micro map..but all the other micro maps are pretty generic and i had no other ideas =p
-For preset bases, I need something to work with like replays etc. This is somewhat being offerred with project #1 (mid-game setups) or project #4 (late-game setups), which are kind of in-the-queue.
-Maps can't tell when a unit or structure completes. Can't do this.
-Handicaps and starting with a set midgame are cool and compatible with other ideas though. Good features to include on many of these ideas. Could offer options like this eventually in the other projects i.e. #1, #4. Further feedback needed on whether you want something different than what is planned for those.
7. dropship hero: episode scourge
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On January 05 2010 14:22 ella_guru wrote:
_Micro Map_
Dropship has 4 vultures , or Tank
On the ground there is
Zealots ( for Vultures)
Reaver (Tank)
Scourge are chasing your dropship. This can be turned on or off.
Seems pretty simple, but would be lots of fun for me, and those imitating Fanta/Boxer.
You might need to slow down scourge speed, if possible? Anything that keeps you from slowing the dropship too much.
_Micro Map_
Dropship has 4 vultures , or Tank
On the ground there is
Zealots ( for Vultures)
Reaver (Tank)
Scourge are chasing your dropship. This can be turned on or off.
Seems pretty simple, but would be lots of fun for me, and those imitating Fanta/Boxer.
You might need to slow down scourge speed, if possible? Anything that keeps you from slowing the dropship too much.
This I can do. I could have the scourge be slowed by devourer spores or maybe ensnare (not sure, never tried to make a comp ensnare something but I will look it up.) Other than that, can't adjust scourge speed. Will this be okay?
This is in the queue I guess. I'll do this sometime.
8. muta micro gone wild
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On January 05 2010 14:34 Waffles wrote:
how about a muta micro map where enemy units dont have vision of your units so they dont keep shooting the same muta over and over again which makes muta micro unrealistic.
how about a muta micro map where enemy units dont have vision of your units so they dont keep shooting the same muta over and over again which makes muta micro unrealistic.
If you mean comp mutas then I'm not sure vision is the way to achieve this, but it can be done. What you (or I) would do is alternate attack with "send all units on random suicide missions" at a good precise timing, mixing in move as well. I think it's possible to make ridiculously hard comp hydras, goons, zealots, mutas, at least. however, sometimes they get frozen like goons do.
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split map. we all know how to split probes but what about splitting irradiates to multiple defilers/ultras? zealots to tanks? scourge to stacked mutas?
are the targets mixed in with non-targets? sci's start at a set distance, must kill all defilers/ultras to win, scis only get one shot from a set distance or what? This can be done but the scenerio has to be spelled out more. For instance, zealots vs tanks could be done, just make a level where the tanks all have 1 hp but they must die before a set time or the zealot guy loses. Scourge to stack mutas again, make the mutas injured and see how many you can kill with your scourge. Are these acceptable levels to you? Similar with irradiate, a time limit would force them to get it at one split, with the distance being the difficulty, but if you want other units mixed in then it's going to be more challenging. Let me know.
I'm kind of waiting on more discussion before putting this in the queue, because maybe people don't really want this as much as the other stuff, compared to how much design work it would be to get it right.
10. early game scenarios
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On January 05 2010 15:52 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I've always wanted a micro map that dealt with the critical timing moments for certain strategy counters.
So like; 5pool vs those first warping canons and probes, zergling runby on FE vs first probes/zeal/canons, hydra range and break vs protoss FE (canon/zeal/probes), terran MnM/tank/vessel vs ling lurker/sunken while defiler and swarm is on its way, First Medics and stim run by vs morphing sunken- ling/drone, etc. etc.
I've always wanted a micro map that dealt with the critical timing moments for certain strategy counters.
So like; 5pool vs those first warping canons and probes, zergling runby on FE vs first probes/zeal/canons, hydra range and break vs protoss FE (canon/zeal/probes), terran MnM/tank/vessel vs ling lurker/sunken while defiler and swarm is on its way, First Medics and stim run by vs morphing sunken- ling/drone, etc. etc.
I can make this right away if you show me a model rep of what situation(s) you want.
This can be incredibly fun. I would like to make this. It's in the queue, but I need people to pinpoint specific timings from specific replays that they'd like to see, otherwise I have to wait for my sources to get to this, and that won't be until after #1 and #4 are done.
11. rig custom levels for player1 in micro tournament
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On January 05 2010 20:08 GeneralStan wrote:
I would like a small simple mod to an existing map.
Start with the standard Micro Tournament (Marwins version 10.5v3 is the map I'm working with).
Change the custom mode so instead of cycling through the players to get a turn, the first player always chooses the micro combination. Rather than a bunch of retards throwing units on the squares, you get somebody creating carefully considered matchups each round (somebody like me
I would like a small simple mod to an existing map.
Start with the standard Micro Tournament (Marwins version 10.5v3 is the map I'm working with).
Change the custom mode so instead of cycling through the players to get a turn, the first player always chooses the micro combination. Rather than a bunch of retards throwing units on the squares, you get somebody creating carefully considered matchups each round (somebody like me
i'll get that map and see how the triggers look.
update: I looked at the triggers. So far I've only found a way to do it that would ruin the game if red leaves. Going to look more at the triggers next time I take a stab at making maps here.
Unsuccessful so far, but while I was brushing my teeth I figured out a way. Gonna take another stab at it.
