EPT
Spoilers for OSL Ro8
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:14 Megalisk wrote: He is deserving..but I hope he gets fucking crushed. Me too, but only because he's playing Movie. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
Movie > Shine. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2749 Posts
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Deleted User 37864
780 Posts
Bisu in the finals of MSL would be more epic than Shine. Stork vs Flash is WAY more epic than a Shine vs Flash. Not to mention that would be sooo one sided.. UGHHHHHHHHH I HATE SHINEEEEEE | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:18 DragoonPK wrote: Movie will rape him so bad.. I sense 3-0 coming, the guy is the only progamer I actually HATE! His play is so fucking dull GOD!! Shine's play is anything but "dull". | ||
Aesop
Hungary11304 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:17 Kenpachi wrote: Movie > Shine Movie > Shine. Bo5 ... I really like Shine: He is modest, cheerful and plays well. | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:22 Megalisk wrote: As much as I despise Shine, realistically, he should be able to easily defeat movie...so Flash vs. Shine finals? hopefully not, shine isn't too good vs terran then again neither is movie movie vs calm? | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
The only thing he does is make hydras and attack. I mean come on, look at Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Zero these people you can see personality reflected in their games. This guys is copy-cat that just does standard stuff well.. Nothing impressive.. | ||
KwarK
United States43203 Posts
He deserved to lose game 3. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:23 DragoonPK wrote: The only thing he does is make hydras and attack. I mean come on, look at Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Zero these people you can see personality reflected in their games. This guys is copy-cat that just does standard stuff well.. Nothing impressive.. he does a lot of cute little cheesy stuff, like backdoor lings, burrowed drones, obs sniping, etc. his two games vs stork were the best of the night | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2229 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:23 DragoonPK wrote: The only thing he does is make hydras and attack. I mean come on, look at Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Zero these people you can see personality reflected in their games. This guys is copy-cat that just does standard stuff well.. Nothing impressive.. yep, something like Flash, just does the standard thing better. LMAO | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:25 johanes wrote: yep, something like Flash, just does the standard thing better. LMAO See Flash does it so good that its actually fitting, I mean perfection. This guy on the other hand, is not perfect, he is just good. | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:24 KwarK wrote: Any B player on icc immediately counts the drones upon scouting on HBR. If there's one missing then they know what's up. Of course some sneakier zergs use the gas trick to get an extra drone just to fuck with you but Shine didn't even do that. He told Stork what was up and Stork didn't listen. And you shouldn't simcity your own nexus in PvZ because you need ground mobility for fighting mutalisks. While Stork can macro/micro/multitask decently his theory is severely lacking in areas I consider fairly basic. He deserved to lose game 3. Sadly I have to agree with this. I am just a D+ Protoss and I always count my opponent Zerg's drones on HBR... To think Stork made a mistake like that... | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:24 jalstar wrote: he does a lot of cute little cheesy stuff, like backdoor lings, burrowed drones, obs sniping, etc. his two games vs stork were the best of the night Ok yeah he might be a bit weirdo, but still I just find him too dull both in personality, and gameplay. Movie, plz rape the shit out of this kid. Show him how not to mess around with the mafia! | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:28 lazz wrote: oh god imagine if shine won this osl O.o if he beats flash he'll deserve it. he won't beat flash though, flash's style of play directly counters shine's. | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:28 lazz wrote: oh god imagine if shine won this osl O.o No! Thats just sad... T.T | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:28 lazz wrote: oh god imagine if shine won this osl O.o If Shine wins this OSL, I'll stop watching the OSL completely and just stick to PL and MSL. | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:30 o3.power91 wrote: If Shine wins this OSL, I'll stop watching the OSL completely and just stick to PL and MSL. He will ride the momentum into the other tourneys and become the last bonjwa O_O. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:24 KwarK wrote: Any B player on icc immediately counts the drones upon scouting on HBR. If there's one missing then they know what's up. Of course some sneakier zergs use the gas trick to get an extra drone just to fuck with you but Shine didn't even do that. He told Stork what was up and Stork didn't listen. And you shouldn't simcity your own nexus in PvZ because you need ground mobility for fighting mutalisks. While Stork can macro/micro/multitask decently his theory is severely lacking in areas I consider fairly basic. He deserved to lose game 3. What do you do when you see it coming? I thought Stork knew it was coming (since he did check with a probe just in case) but in any case I don't see what he could've done other than keep probes blocking the rear entrance for quite a while like he did, which in the end still fucks over your economy. The part where he sim citied his main nexus was rather bad, but even if hadn't, wouldn't his nat have been fucked? The thing is, on HBR I have no idea what to expect after the initial gayness. If it's mutas, I'm going to have to put up cannons in the min line, but at the same time that will make me weaker against against hydras. If I am lucky and manage to sneak in a probe, then of course I can find out what is going on and cancel cannons if I had put them up already and he goes hydra, but I'm not always so lucky. But the latter part is just standard on any map. The most annoying part for me is that it comes with the possibility of my economy getting fucked early game. I have no idea how really to deal with it efficiently, and that mindset leads to me doing worse in games on HBR than on any other map ;/ | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
the site's main banner .. changed o.O + Show Spoiler + RAIN DEERS MOTHERFUCKER | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:33 Megalisk wrote: He will ride the momentum into the other tourneys and become the last bonjwa O_O. I'll stop watching Starcraft in that case and pray that SC2 is better than a SC era of Shine dominance. | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:33 Megalisk wrote: He will ride the momentum into the other tourneys and become the last bonjwa O_O. joke? That would be Kutcher Punking the BW Scene XD! | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:36 lazz wrote: it's been like that all daydid anyone notice .. the site's main banner .. changed o.O + Show Spoiler + RAIN DEERS MOTHERFUCKER | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:36 lazz wrote: did anyone notice .. the site's main banner .. changed o.O + Show Spoiler + RAIN DEERS MOTHERFUCKER There were like 2 blogs about this... and I think there is snow now on the letters that didn't used to be there | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:23 DragoonPK wrote: The only thing he does is make hydras and attack. I mean come on, look at Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Zero these people you can see personality reflected in their games. This guys is copy-cat that just does standard stuff well.. Nothing impressive.. you see first game v stork? hydras and attack, huh? | ||
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:35 EtherealDeath wrote: What do you do when you see it coming? I thought Stork knew it was coming (since he did check with a probe just in case) but in any case I don't see what he could've done other than keep probes blocking the rear entrance for quite a while like he did, which in the end still fucks over your economy. The part where he sim citied his main nexus was rather bad, but even if hadn't, wouldn't his nat have been fucked? The thing is, on HBR I have no idea what to expect after the initial gayness. If it's mutas, I'm going to have to put up cannons in the min line, but at the same time that will make me weaker against against hydras. If I am lucky and manage to sneak in a probe, then of course I can find out what is going on and cancel cannons if I had put them up already and he goes hydra, but I'm not always so lucky. But the latter part is just standard on any map. The most annoying part for me is that it comes with the possibility of my economy getting fucked early game. I have no idea how really to deal with it efficiently, and that mindset leads to me doing worse in games on HBR than on any other map ;/ Remember you see the missing drone before you've even placed a cannon (2 player maps ftw). You move your cannons to anti runby locations. You then fake not scouting it. There's all sorts of ways you can turn it back on them. They think the situation is that they have options like runthrough which you don't know about. Actually the situation is you know about their options but they don't know you know. Often when they think it's unscouted zergs will rape their own eco for lings and suicide themselves into cannons they weren't expecting which is always lol. If you want to be really sexy you just place a cannon on your main minline and don't bother walling at all or put 2 probes in your choke and pylon as he runs through. It's only initial gayness if they have the knowledge and you don't. If you have the knowledge and they don't you can reverse it on them. Shine didn't really commit to the runthrough but he didn't have to because Stork lost a huge amount of mining time which fucked him. Better cannon placements would have stopped 6 slowlings running through without needing any probes so we can assume an extra few hundred minerals if he wasn't an idiot. That means his first corsair scouts better and doesn't die. That means his mutalisk attack is met by cannons and 3 corsairs which in turn means he has 2 gas for longer and can get 4 more ht to meet the hydras. If the zerg does what Shine did, opening by mining through then not committing to it, and the the P does what any good player does, adapting by better cannon placements and not needing probes, then the game progresses as normal. The only difference is that the P needs to add a few better placed cannons vs hydra pressure later should that occur and the Z takes his third about 30 seconds later than normal. | ||
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Faranth
933 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:55 Faranth wrote: I won't argue that Shine didn't play well in order to earn his spot in the Ro4. Although I think he pretty much is reliant upon midgame hydra/muta play, he does it well and exploits the maps frustratingly well (see Stork v. Shine game 3 on Neo HBR). My disappointment stems from the high probability of a Flash v. Shine finals. Movie v. Shine has El Nino TWICE in the map pool, so unless Movie defies map imbalance, he will fall to Shine, and Flash will likely dominate Calm as he did Jaedong. Then, what happens? Flash crushes Shine. FvZ is a joke at the moment, as Flash is nearly unstoppable. If Stork made it through to the finals, we'd have a rematch of the Bacchus '08, and methinks that Stork is the only one who stands a chance against Flash at the moment. Protoss is Flash's 'weakest' matchup, and he's been dropping a lot of games to top tier Protoss lately, making an upset a tantalizing possibility - but without Stork, and with Movie heading towards a map imba loss... this OSL is decided. I won't bother watching the Ro4, or probably even the finals. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104246 hopefully shine and flash aren't too much better than hero and light | ||
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
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Anduril
United States248 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:45 KwarK wrote: Remember you see the missing drone before you've even placed a cannon (2 player maps ftw). You move your cannons to anti runby locations. You then fake not scouting it. There's all sorts of ways you can turn it back on them. They think the situation is that they have options like runthrough which you don't know about. Actually the situation is you know about their options but they don't know you know. Often when they think it's unscouted zergs will rape their own eco for lings and suicide themselves into cannons they weren't expecting which is always lol. If you want to be really sexy you just place a cannon on your main minline and don't bother walling at all or put 2 probes in your choke and pylon as he runs through. It's only initial gayness if they have the knowledge and you don't. If you have the knowledge and they don't you can reverse it on them. Shine didn't really commit to the runthrough but he didn't have to because Stork lost a huge amount of mining time which fucked him. Better cannon placements would have stopped 6 slowlings running through without needing any probes so we can assume an extra few hundred minerals if he wasn't an idiot. That means his first corsair scouts better and doesn't die. That means his mutalisk attack is met by cannons and 3 corsairs which in turn means he has 2 gas for longer and can get 4 more ht to meet the hydras. If the zerg does what Shine did, opening by mining through then not committing to it, and the the P does what any good player does, adapting by better cannon placements and not needing probes, then the game progresses as normal. The only difference is that the P needs to add a few better placed cannons vs hydra pressure later should that occur and the Z takes his third about 30 seconds later than normal. Isn't the alternate cannon placement for anti backstab worse against ling/hydra all-in since they won't be in the proper position to back up the later cannons you put up? Although I suppose I should be able to survive that allin relatively fine if he basically wastes a drone at the start. | ||
Waxangel
United States33479 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:59 KwarK wrote: Movie will succeed where Bisu and Stork failed. The two core aspects of his style, excellent reaver use and sticking on 2 bases forever, will let him weather the midgame storm and then the hanbang he unleashes at the start of the lategame will smash shit up. There's a decent chance that it will become very ugly and messy because both of these guys don't have much finesse, I'm thinking Violet vs Shine on destination all over again -_- | ||
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Kreedit
Sweden373 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:59 KwarK wrote: Movie will succeed where Bisu and Stork failed. The two core aspects of his style, excellent reaver use and sticking on 2 bases forever, will let him weather the midgame storm and then the hanbang he unleashes at the start of the lategame will smash shit up. Dunno man... Movie is good but El Nino is like 80% ZvP in tlpd. Though maybe Movie pulls out some new awesome strat for El Nino? i wouldnt put it above him seing as hes proably Aiurs Brightest star atm. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On December 25 2009 22:16 Kreedit wrote: Dunno man... Movie is good but El Nino is like 80% ZvP in tlpd. Though maybe Movie pulls out some new awesome strat for El Nino? i wouldnt put it above him seing as hes proably Aiurs Brightest star atm. He's the brightest, coz he's the only one left T_T | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
On December 25 2009 22:10 EtherealDeath wrote: Isn't the alternate cannon placement for anti backstab worse against ling/hydra all-in since they won't be in the proper position to back up the later cannons you put up? Although I suppose I should be able to survive that allin relatively fine if he basically wastes a drone at the start. You shouldn't have lost your first scout probe if they only have slowlings. HBR is a decent map for keeping them alive, especially when you're 3. If he gets speedlings that simply compounds the economic damage he's doing to himself. In that context it's not too much to pay to get another 3 cannons at the front. You have a significant economic advantage from FEing without taking any damage against his drone missing ling opening. Minerals are cheap and survival is victory. If he hasn't got speedlings you see what's up. If he has got them, well, that's useful information too. One other trick for HBR that it's worth being aware of is that it's very easy for any player of any skill to drill probes across his back mineral with a pylon.You simply get the probe into the corner with the mineral and the temple and pylon and it just happens. It's way easier than outsider or medusa for that. That trick is great for scouting because you can head to the nat, get your path blocked by lings and then have them chase you to the 3rd, whereupon you jump across and get a head start on the way to his main. It's always a bitch to stop hydraling allins but it's no harder than anywhere else on HBR imo. You'd normally have to add a cannon or two to be safe vs it anyway. Now you have to add the normal amount plus two to make up for the two at the back. However that's not expensive when you consider that the two at the back were already paid for by him in lost mining time and drones. It all evens out. | ||
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
On December 25 2009 22:15 Waxangel wrote: There's a decent chance that it will become very ugly and messy because both of these guys don't have much finesse, I'm thinking Violet vs Shine on destination all over again -_- Either way, I'm sure as hell gonna watch it. It's probably the series I'm most looking forward to. Movie has been playing the most innovative PvZ of anyone recently. Him and Stork have been pretty much representing Protoss alone, and Stork only by sheer force of skill. Movie excites me. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10344 Posts
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8091 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:18 scyper wrote: It is because he has knocked out Bisu and Stork. Bisu in the finals of MSL would be more epic than Shine. Stork vs Flash is WAY more epic than a Shine vs Flash. Not to mention that would be sooo one sided.. UGHHHHHHHHH I HATE SHINEEEEEE In theory if shine > stork then a shine vs flash finals would be more epics :O But seriously shine just handed flash his second osl gold so im happy :D | ||
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
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Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:17 Kenpachi wrote: Movie > Shine Movie > Shine. Movie < Shine Movie < Shine Movie < Shine | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
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IMlemon
Lithuania296 Posts
On December 25 2009 22:27 KwarK wrote: Either way, I'm sure as hell gonna watch it. It's probably the series I'm most looking forward to. Movie has been playing the most innovative PvZ of anyone recently. Him and Stork have been pretty much representing Protoss alone, and Stork only by sheer force of skill. Movie excites me. Im sorry for my ignorance but what's exactly so innovative about movie's play? In game's of his I saw he did fairly standard stuff. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On December 26 2009 00:58 JWD wrote: Stork played like he had his head ten feet up his ass in that series…what the hell was he doing out there? Definitely sealed his reputation for having an achilles heel PvZ. I thought he was quite brilliant in game 2 | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
the korean commentary during his games is always hilarious | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:09 Beachac wrote: SHINE WHAT A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT FUCKING PIECE OF NIGGER SHIT FAGGOT ZERG On December 25 2009 21:10 MuffinDude wrote: GOD FUCKING DAMIT FUCK THE LAG FUCK THE ZERG FUCK THIS OSL On December 25 2009 21:10 De4ngus wrote: What the fuck Shine. You don't deserve this at all. On December 25 2009 21:10 Jee-Host wrote: I want all gay zergs to immediately DIE On December 25 2009 21:10 scyper wrote: shines a jackass!! On December 25 2009 21:11 Draffut wrote: What a fucking tool shine is. Come back after you learn anything besides OPalisk micro. On December 25 2009 21:11 Crunchums wrote: fuck you shine you fucking fuck do you fucking think you're fuck fuckfukcfukcufk so fucking posisssssssed arrrrrrrrrrrh fuck On December 25 2009 21:12 SkelA wrote: HORIBLE STREAM HORIBLE GAMES HORIBLE FLASH + CALM CHEESEFEST WOHOO NICE DAY On December 25 2009 21:13 MuffinDude wrote: FUCKING LAG FUCKING CHEESE FUCKING ZERG GAYNESS FUCKING GAY CHRISTMAS PRESENTS. On December 25 2009 21:13 o3.power91 wrote: I'm sorry but if a Starleague has Shine in the semifinals, I can't take it seriously. On December 25 2009 21:21 Xiphos wrote: Well, I can ACTUALLY find a replay of a D level Iccup player mine out the backdoor mineral patches and then attempt to make a zergling runby, ruin the toss' economy and then just send in Mutalisk to get the main with a followup of Hydra break. You don't even need 200 apm for that! | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:15 jalstar wrote: Me too, but only because he's playing Movie. Exactly, what I think. [e] epic post by DoctorHelvetica! | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
Trashy sim city which i bet Jangbi taught him. | ||
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Crimson
United States311 Posts
On December 25 2009 21:24 KwarK wrote: Any B player on icc immediately counts the drones upon scouting on HBR. If there's one missing then they know what's up. Of course some sneakier zergs use the gas trick to get an extra drone just to fuck with you but Shine didn't even do that. He told Stork what was up and Stork didn't listen. And you shouldn't simcity your own nexus in PvZ because you need ground mobility for fighting mutalisks. While Stork can macro/micro/multitask decently his theory is severely lacking in areas I consider fairly basic. He deserved to lose game 3. Shine did do extractor trick in that game... Look at his supply at 2:40-2:48 on Jon's video. 10/9 | ||
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