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/rant
The story begins last year during my grade twelve year in high school. It was the most stressful in my entire life I had a lot of trouble sleeping because I would always be thinking about my grades, I was calculating my average roughly 4-5 times a day. Before grade 12 I always had at least 80 averages but I struggled a lot, one reason I believe is because of one teacher that I had. I will always remember this one question from a test for as long as I live because it is hands down the most retarded thing I have ever seen on a test, "How does lava have a higher silica content then the rock from which it was formed?" the answer ended up being "the lava would roll over other rocks which would melt and give the lava a higher silica content." On top of that I had to deal with the stress of trying extremely hard on chemistry tests and always doing terrible, going into the tests extremely confident and then getting bent over a table.
My mom thought that since I spend so much time on the computer that I should just apply to a computer course, were in actuality I was always extremely frustrated by computers. They would randomly break and I would use random trial and error of solutions that I found on the internet to fix it, and they would think that I was extremely knowledgeable when it came to computers. They didn't seem to comprehend that there was a difference between building computers or making software, and playing games on the computer.
I ended up applying to decent schools for physical sciences programs against my parents will. I applied to schools that for the most part required an admission average of 73-80% most of the schools would list a range of marks that encompassed roughly 4 percentile. I ended up having a final average of 75% which I thought was decent although I was extremely disappointed in myself. Unfortunately I did not get into any universities. I of course was stunned and extremely disappointed in myself, it really hurts opening up letters hoping they will offer you admission and then reading that you didn't make the cut. I pulled myself together though and tried to think positively, there was always next year right? I could come back for a 5th year and improve my grades and then try again.
My parents were never really interested in my life because they were to busy concentrating on my older sister who is an Olympic hockey player so I thought they would not mind so much about me staying at home and continuing on in high school for another year. Unfortunately I was wrong. Dead wrong. My parents especially my Mom were disgusted when they learned that I was going to be staying another year. They believe that I am one out of a possible four or five that had to remain for a 5th year, and consequently believe I am mentally retarded and completely incapable of making my own decisions. They are only letting me return for one semester because they believe that if it takes any longer I might as well just drop out of school and get a full time job.
Recently I told them my plans for applying to University this year, which was to apply to roughly 5 schools, 3 of the schools being ones that I 100% know I can get into and 2 schools were I believe I have a 70%+ chance of getting into. I decided to apply for physical sciences again because that is what I enjoy the most. I would much rather be doing something I love and making less money then doing something I hate and earning more money, and for the last 3 years I have loved Chemistry. I also told them that I was choosing schools that had good engineering programs because if for some reason I didn't like physical sciences then that would be the next program that I could see myself enjoying.
My Mom then responded by telling me that she would not be letting me repeat last years mistake, and that she would not let me switch into an engineering program from a physical science program even if she allowed me to apply for a physical science program. An argument ensued which resulted in me being kicked out of my house for 3 days, until I apologized and accepted the fact that I would not being going to university.
A few of her main points were that a degree in science would get me no were in life because there would be no jobs available, and that I was not "right" for university.
So I am just curious if anyone on TL has a degree of some sort in science and if it is completely useless?
/rant
 
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Baa?21243 Posts
This is an issue of telling your parents they're retarded if they think a science degree is useless.
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On December 09 2009 13:09 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
it really hurts opening up letters hoping they will offer you admission and then reading that you didn't make the cut
yeah they never send just a letter if you got in, it'd be a big thick package
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thats weird...
I'm in grade 12 right now, so I am also stressing out over marks. I find it surprising that you thought you would get into some programs, but weren't able to get into ANY. Really doing another year of high school isn't a big deal, and I think your parents should accept that. It's not hard to do a few courses and boost your marks significantly... Also for universities you shouldn't see them as just a way to get a job, it's more about the education and the overall experience rather than becoming an engineer. You can do w/e you want after you get your degree, and it doesn't mean you have to do exactly what you studied.
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Calgary25980 Posts
I've heard this story 100 times and in the end it boils down to you spinning the story to sound like a victim.
I can say with almost 100% certainty that you fucked up your marks and now your parents are justifiably pulling you by the hand to ensure you don't completely fuck up.
The first step is getting your life under control, whatever that means to you. Don't fight it, just accept it and get your shit together. Starting now.
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i didn't even know you could do 5 years of high school lol. How did you not get into any schools? always have back ups, likely ones, and reach schools.
And how did it go from arguing about which program you would apply for to accepting the fact that you wont go to college? you should definitely go if you are at all able. also, you can go with an undecided major and figure out which one you want and then pick, no?
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It's really your fault that you didn't apply to a university that you would have 90% + chance of getting into and being satisfied there. Not sure what you were thinking :|
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Haha Chill...
Anyway Mr. Protoss... If you're going to go into either physical sciences or engineering, be prepared to work hard. There's plenty of opportunity in both fields, but you're going to want a graduate degree eventually (if Canada works anything like the US). For that you'll need good university grades.
It would be better to take a few years off of school and get a job while getting your priorities unfucked rather than messing up your university GPA and screwing the rest of your life over.
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im confused, you can pull a C average and as long as you don't fail the ACT/SAT in a ridiculous manner you can probably make into many big, public state universities.
and those schools are just fine, go for it.
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On December 09 2009 13:37 eMbrace wrote:
im confused, you can pull a C average and as long as you don't fail the ACT/SAT in a ridiculous manner you can probably make into many big, public state universities.
and those schools are just fine, go for it.
He's in Canada
At OP: Well you really needed at least an 80 average to get your pick of schools, but I'm surprised you didn't get any with a 75. Whatever it is, I think Chill is right, it's basically your fault and you're not the victim of your parents cruelty. Just man up and study and get better marks and get into a university you want.
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On December 09 2009 13:24 FragKrag wrote:
It's really your fault that you didn't apply to a university that you would have 90% + chance of getting into and being satisfied there. Not sure what you were thinking :|
Yea it was my fault for applying to schools that were out of my reach. But to be fair I also based my applications off of my first semester mid term average. I also atribute the decision to not apply to schools which I had a 90+% chance of getting into, to my friends to some degree. (scapegoat? lol maybe) My friends for the most part maintained 90+% averages with ease and continually laughed at people who were considering lower end schools. I guess it made me consider myself an elitist, and I thought it was below me to apply to any of the lesser schools that they always made fun of. Obviously this ideal was completely shit on when I didn't get in anywhere, and it makes me feel fucking retarded looking back on it.
I know I was a fucking idiot, and I still may be but at least I admit it. And that is the first step, right?
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United States3824 Posts
On December 09 2009 13:22 Chill wrote:
I've heard this story 100 times and in the end it boils down to you spinning the story to sound like a victim.
I can say with almost 100% certainty that you fucked up your marks and now your parents are justifiably pulling you by the hand to ensure you don't completely fuck up.
The first step is getting your life under control, whatever that means to you. Don't fight it, just accept it and get your shit together. Starting now.
Hey you're back. That's nice.
By now he means like quit out of TL and get your shit together now. Good luck dude!
Also there's no such thing as a useless education. Also if you read this line you haven't quit out of TL and are fucking up.
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does your mom not have a point?
and degree in science is pretty useless for your level unless you go on to graduate school. you might just end up making copies at some science related place. undergrad degrees does very little with the except of a few like CS of engineering.
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and like every said, crying about it on TL means you just talk about unfairness in the world and doesn't plan on doing anything about it.
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Well I have been trying a lot harder this year and doing a lot better but the major problem is that my mom doesnt see a reason for me to go into a science program, because there are supposedly no jobs available in that area. I am just wondering if she is right or not?
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On December 09 2009 14:00 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
Well I have been trying a lot harder this year and doing a lot better but the major problem is that my mom doesnt see a reason for me to go into a science program, because there are supposedly no jobs available in that area. I am just wondering if she is right or not?
She may be right about there not being a particular overflow of pure science jobs, but nowadays in Canada the undergrad is becoming the new high school diploma: if you don't have one, employers won't really consider you for anything. So, since not going to school is hardly a good option, you should go for something you will excel at.
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science degree is useless unless its a graduate degree
your mom is right.
the only difference between a chemistry and physics bachelor major is which company you will be filling papers at.
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pursuing a career in managing athletes wouldn't be too bad
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On December 09 2009 14:00 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
Well I have been trying a lot harder this year and doing a lot better but the major problem is that my mom doesnt see a reason for me to go into a science program, because there are supposedly no jobs available in that area. I am just wondering if she is right or not?
Is she going to be working your job for you? Or are you? You could be w/e you want, as long as you aspire to be the best at it you will do well in life. You could end up being a hot dog vender.... but if you do well in that field you make money too. It really just depends on how well you apply yourself to what you want to achieve and figuring out the best way to make money out of it.
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this blog really made me think about how fortunate I am to be in college right now.
sorry to hear about your problems, dude. I don't know you, so it's probably be wrong to judge, but i hope you manage to get everything on track asap!
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Braavos36375 Posts
i don't know how high school works in canada, but in the US, if you're scoring below 80% in high school, you're average at best. depending on your high school's academic strength, its very likely you're below average among college applicants in general and should be applying to mainly large state schools / community colleges.
i mean, if your friends are all scoring 90% or higher and you're scoring below 80%, you really shouldn't have applied to the same schools as them. if you're worried about them making fun of you, just don't tell them you applied to the lesser schools. in the US you always apply to at least one safety school (one you know you will get into).
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Since you fucked up your grades (you can only blame yourself), you will have to pay by studying whatever your parents want you to study no matter how much you hate it. Any kind of college degree is better than no degree. You will get nowhere in life by just graduating from high school.
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I recommend HVAC engineering studies (or building engineering). Mainly work are done using computers, not by hand. Why? Global warming gives new jobs to these areas as low energy housing are needed.
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Hey man, whatever you do, just don't give up. I'm not too familiar with Canada, but do what you have to get into college/university. From what i hear from your post, you dont seem like a dumb person.
You admitted that it was your own fault, and thats not something that everyone can do. Just work harder, and never give up on college/university,despite what your parents say.
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science is good when it comes to pre med pre dent pre pharm imo. otherwise you could teach or do research...
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On December 09 2009 14:05 BabyRhino wrote:
science degree is useless unless its a graduate degree
your mom is right.
the only difference between a chemistry and physics bachelor major is which company you will be filling papers at.
Pretty much correct, only masters degrees in most sciences are useless too.
If you're in it for the science, either you're going to spin off and try to find an interesting job straight off the bachelors (which is very, very hard to get), or you're going straight to PhD.
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On December 09 2009 14:00 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
Well I have been trying a lot harder this year and doing a lot better but the major problem is that my mom doesnt see a reason for me to go into a science program, because there are supposedly no jobs available in that area. I am just wondering if she is right or not?
You should be able to tell if she's right or not. We aren't your mom's sons .
Does she work at all? If not - she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about
Does she work in science? If not - she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about.
Does she work in the same field that you are considering? If not - she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about.
Has she changed jobs in that field recently and searched for nationwide listings of said jobs? If not - she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about.
I've been blindly taking my parents advice for 3 years after high school and it is my biggest regret atm, because it becomes more evident they didn't know wtf they were talking about and know barely anything beyond the scope of their jobs.
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Why didn't you apply to a community college after getting rejected from all your other schools. They'll literally take anybody, and you can end up getting real life experience instead of repeating the 12th grade.
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you can get a coding job with a b.s in comp sci... I guess with physics its different though
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On December 09 2009 13:45 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2009 13:24 FragKrag wrote:
It's really your fault that you didn't apply to a university that you would have 90% + chance of getting into and being satisfied there. Not sure what you were thinking :| Yea it was my fault for applying to schools that were out of my reach. But to be fair I also based my applications off of my first semester mid term average. I also atribute the decision to not apply to schools which I had a 90+% chance of getting into, to my friends to some degree. (scapegoat? lol maybe) My friends for the most part maintained 90+% averages with ease and continually laughed at people who were considering lower end schools. I guess it made me consider myself an elitist, and I thought it was below me to apply to any of the lesser schools that they always made fun of. Obviously this ideal was completely shit on when I didn't get in anywhere, and it makes me feel fucking retarded looking back on it. I know I was a fucking idiot, and I still may be but at least I admit it. And that is the first step, right?
Yea, I had the same mindset. I remember telling my friend that I would never go to (insert name of school I'm in right now) when I first found out that I got in. Surprise, surprise.
Stuff like this is always ends up being a nice, swift kick to the ego, but at least we can all get something out of it.
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What schools are you hoping to get into this year?
I agree with many that you fucked up, but you seem to be aware of that so that's good. Obviously we get a somewhat biased opinion from you as well. That being said, I think your parents are being overly controlling, saying you should not go to university, at least not into physical sciences or whatever. If you are really interested in continuing your learning, I would definitely consider going to univ, since as someone pointed out, university degree is becoming a job standard. I would also encourage you to consider pursuing what you are interested in as opposed to the computers you were complaining about. Four years is a long time, and you don't want to drop out or hate your life for that time.
So yea, sciences don't always have the best job prospects, but still science>>>then humanities/languages/etc. I have no clue what you personally are interested in doing since you don't really clarify that. I mean science background allows you to pursue somewhat diverse job prospects. You can also minor in something else if you are worried. Hmm, why not minor in computers lol? Anyways, sort of need more info on what YOU want to do with your life in terms of jobs, I'm also curious on what types of schools you are applying to. Lastly, what sort of study habits do you have now? Are you doing bad because you aren't studying enough, or because you are having serious trouble with material. If its the latter university could be tough. If its the former, do you plan to improve studying habits at univ, or carry on as you are? Below average/mediocre science degree isn't the greatest.
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Science degrees are completely useless because they don't get you a job right after you get the degree. You have to continue your education into other faculties, like medicine. Most people who take science generally have a specific area they want to go into.
Highschool in Canada is a joke...in my school in B.C. at least.
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An undergraduate science degree is ... close to useless. With it, you can a) work as a technician (30-50k a year maybe?) where your contract expires every few years when grants run out or b) find a job in the government where you don't even use your science degree but instead do a lot of paperwork/menial tasks (but the pay is better and more stable).
It's kind of sad that the above statement isn't even really THAT sarcastic. I used to be in Science, biochem to be exact, and I researched a LOT of job opportunities in my later years. Frankly, it's slim pickings for a bachelor's degree. A master's degree is also useless - you just start off the tech tree at a slightly higher wage. Getting a PhD -> Post-Doc means you can run your own lab and enjoy all the fun that comes with it - like discovering new mechanisms, planning your own experiments. Yes, it is very rewarding but you have to have a very strong personality. You need to be able to deal with the ups and downs of writing grants, getting rejected for grants, troubleshooting a PoS mass spec machine for 6 months, getting rejected by Nature over and over etc.
In all honesty, I just wanted to tell you the truth. I don't remember much from my degree - by 4th year I was learning specific mechanisms involving specific proteins of a pathway I will never look at again. However, I learned how to THINK critically. It's a nice benefit and I enjoyed my time. So... choose science if a) you can pull 90s and get into a professional school or b) you absolutely love research. Otherwise, I would go for engineering, which is applied SCIENCE with job prospects. Business is also good and I think there are college degrees with good career paths.
P.S. Actually, do you know what a life in science entails? I think that was a major problem with most of my classmates - noone really knew what they were getting themselves into! People just thought 'oh, I liked chemistry in high school. It must be the same in University/job!" WRONG  Do some research on what is likely to be one of the biggest choices you'll make in your life.
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I am confused by all the people saying science degrees are useless. Which degrees are better please? I'm not trying to be inflammatory. Have the people saying this been through life and seen how it works? Otherwise I wouldn't count your advice too highly just out common sense.
It depends on what you define as success in doing something with the sciences. There are plenty of moderately interesting if not cutting edge things you can do with a masters degree, in a range of pay scales, private/public, research/applied, education/industry. If you are not picky about where your career goes, lots of government jobs are the kind of places where if you do good work you will rise through the ranks. If you want a sexy day job you'll need a PhD or a lot of luck. If you want a high paying job, better credentials helps but it's more about finding a way to sell your skills, which may only use science at arms length. If you just like chemistry, and don't care that much about high pay or high profile, there are PLENTY of things to do.
My parents are forensic scientists who started a long time ago basically creating the professions that are sensationalized cliches now on tv. Now they are high ranking administrators overseeing the ballooning of the field. There is such a high demand for entry level technician positions in biotech right now. Basically every state in the US has local / state government labs that are hiring buckets of people with standard qualifications in chemistry, biology, biochem, molecular biology... sometimes not even a masters is needed. They go on to do very interesting, non-grudge work. This is anecdotal I know, but if you look in the right fields you can get a start without ridiculous amounts of grooming.
If you like science, you should pursue it. Also, buckle down and get your shit together, and just do what your parents say until you can go your own way. GO TO COLLEGE. Have you thought about going to a community college and transferring somewhere? (Does that work in Canada...??) Don't worry about where you go, much of university is what you make of it, or rather, most people at good (not elite) schools don't even get the actual value of it.
edit: while I was writing xusneb said some good things. It's hard to give you transparent advice because there are things you can't really grasp until you get your hands on them by advancing. Critical thinking is what you get payed for as a scientist in the real world. If you like solving problems, pursue science.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 09 2009 13:22 Chill wrote:
I've heard this story 100 times and in the end it boils down to you spinning the story to sound like a victim.
I can say with almost 100% certainty that you fucked up your marks and now your parents are justifiably pulling you by the hand to ensure you don't completely fuck up.
The first step is getting your life under control, whatever that means to you. Don't fight it, just accept it and get your shit together. Starting now.
Chill is completely right. I'm skeptical of your story from the get-go, because I've seen enough of this "parents don't get me" stuff... when I was 14. It's time to grow up, and take responsibility for yourself.
You probably missed an opportunity to do that last year. Don't miss this one.
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Looking for info to fix problems is a great way to accumulate knowledge. Thats how I learned to be tech savy. 
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1. acquire loan
2. pay for own education
3. make money
4. rub money on face
wait you went back to highschool after graduating? wat
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did your sister play when gretzky coached the male team the year both canadian teams won gold?
what is her name?
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After high school, I had no fucking clue what I wanted to do so I got a job. I worked probably half a dozen companies over the year and what I found is that I always ended up being the tech guy and that I liked computers, and that is what I went into the next year at college. And now I make a big paycheck doing something I enjoy and find easy.
If I were in your position, fuck taking another year of high school. How pointless is that? You should get a job, not menial labor job or a fast food job, but a real job in a real office. And just see where things lead.
The hard sciences are not for the faint of heart. I've known people that go half cocked into it for four years and end up working at good will. You need to have a plan for that to work out and you don't have one.
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On December 09 2009 17:37 stack wrote:
did your sister play when gretzky coached the male team the year both canadian teams won gold?
what is her name?
this is his sister:
she was the national team's second goalkeeper. she was the better than the other goaliebut didn't become the starter until her 3rd year. she had a reputation as "the cat" because she is so good vs penalty shots with her glove hand... she stopped iceland's ace scorer's shot to give her team the championship in the junior goodwill games even though she didn't play at all earlier in the tournament (she trusted her coach).
imo she should've started over goldberg to begin with... nai.protoss' parents must've been pissed with the lack of PT
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Sub 80% is bad in any high school. Apply to a crappy community college first before going to a good school
Don't listen to your retarded mother, unless you plan on becoming a lumberjack or some other kind of manual laborer
Post pics of your sister
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75% isn't really university worthy, so going back to school isn't a terrible idea. As for "you're not going to uni"... get loans. Maybe apply to more accommodating schools.
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When the push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love, even if it is not a good idea.
yes, I got that from Futurama, but it is still meaningful o.o
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Well this semester really gave me a chance to improve my grades. I got extremely motivated seeing all my friends leave for university and really started to actually try, currently my average is 84%. The area of science that I am interested in currently is Chemistry, and honestly I cannot even predict what kind of degree I would aim for.
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Just get into a university and do whatever. You're not tied down, first year courses are really generic anyways. You can always switch programs and actually being there gives you a much better feel of what it's really like.
I switched programs 3 times and between 2 faculties and now I know what I really want to do for school and for my career. It's not a problem to not know what you want to do, but it's a problem if you're not trying to figure it out.
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On December 10 2009 07:05 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
Well this semester really gave me a chance to improve my grades. I got extremely motivated seeing all my friends leave for university and really started to actually try, currently my average is 84%. The area of science that I am interested in currently is Chemistry, and honestly I cannot even predict what kind of degree I would aim for.
84% should be decent enough to get into at least mediocre universities like York, Ottawa, etc. Not sure if its good enough for universities like UofT or not though. Anyways, I did a BSc. in Chemistry/Biology, and I would recommend it if you are truly interested in chemistry. That being said, I recommend you start to think about what you are interested in doing with your life. As EatThePath stated, a science degree (inc. chemistry) can lead to many possible job prospects. Many of which do not require further education; however, often these jobs are not very related to chemistry. I have no clue if you are interested in just pursuing a regular government job like this or are interested in teaching, research, medicine, industry (ie. pharmacy etc.). For the latter positions you generally need further education, and if you are truly interested in such options you need to perform well once you start your degree. If you are one of the best, you have pretty unlimited options coming out with a science degree. Basically get your shit together now, and start forming good study habits etc. so you can be successful. Also begin thinking about future goals, because the earlier you look into these the better. In addition, its often too late to improve once you find something you are interested in, so plan on being the best from the beginning. If you can do this you should have no problem proving your parents wrong.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://79.img.v4.skyrock.net/795/bashbrother21/pics/536464382_small.jpg)
