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Current Rank: D [1704] 22 - 35
Most used map: (4)Python 22-30
So I haven't played StarCraft since December and just started playing ICCup late last week again. I played a fair few games today (about 10+) but I can't seem to lay waste to these damned Protoss.
Overall, my win ratio is about 39% out of 57 games. Nothing to boast about but, I'm not expecting anything great here.
My TvZ win ratio is about 61% and my TvP ratio is at a dismal 26%. TERRIBLE.
I don't know what it is exactly. Perhaps it's the Dragoon count or my timing at basic levels, but I keep getting caught with my pants down in this match up.
Today I even got beat down by one kid who just mass expo'd. All he made was Dark Templars and Probes; And I know that because I checked the BWchart. He miraculously secured an extra main + its natural by simply setting up photon cannons everywhere around the map. After scrambling back and forth to destroy as many expos as possible, he ended up hiding an extra nexus and the game spun out of control anyway.
Its more painful playing the game than watching it. During the game I end up just watching it slowly slip through my fingers. And then acknowledging the fact during the replay that what each Protoss did was so simple that even my god damned 2 year old cousin could have pulled it off.
By the end of the game (18 mins later) I typed out and called the kid a cheater like a little baby. There's gotta be a better way to whoop Protoss' ass. I've been using a number of builds but mostly 2fact tank, 1factcc, and FD (most common to least common).
I'm beginning to recognize more facet moves that are required during the game to keep an advantage or give myself a new opportunity in the game but Protoss is so damn easy to play I can't seem to get anything going.
I also seem to throw many games away by moving out way too soon. I have the tendency to get ahead of myself sometimes.
But anyway I am gonna keep posting my improvements and findings every few days or so.
  
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Idk...but u should game with me. I'm a D zerg and want to get better. iscout4u on iccup. Shows my rank as D+. Thats only cuz ive played 300 games this season lol.
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lol i have this problem too. i have a 39% total win rate with 30% winrate vs P.
this is the only reason im stuck at D+
not exactly sure wat ur problem is, but mine is being outmacroed. miss a depot and its gg
also timing is VERY important in this matchup
make sure u scout well and counter whatever hes going for.
lol i absolutely hate dts, but u can counter them with mines...
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Vultures + Science Vessels > DTs + probes.
Alternatively, I think SK terran would work well too.
On a more serious note, I think TvP is much harder nowdays since a lot of protoss are going dt rush into Arbitors. That build owns.
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yea. I think what killed me was the astonishment of my opponent actually mass expoing in the fashion he did and then slowly allowing him to get away with it. The play is actually quite remarkable at some level rofl even if it was absolutely ghastly.
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Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
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On December 08 2009 16:21 T.O.P. wrote:
Vultures + Science Vessels > DTs + probes.
Alternatively, I think SK terran would work well too.
On a more serious note, I think TvP is much harder nowdays since a lot of protoss are going dt rush into Arbitors. That build owns.
Rushing straight to archives then building one or even zero DTs is such a great build at D level. Scares terrans so bad they don't expand for 2 years. I once had a terran GG before I even attacked him because I took 4 bases at about the same time he took his nat.
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Any replays? I think you'll find those are really useful in finding out whats wrong
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Yea, but we aren't talking higher levels are we? We're talking D rank. I could just say "Haaa, typical Protoss bitching that it isn't easier than Terran; That's why he plays Protoss. [lolz]
In actuality I gg'd out even though the game hadn't gotten out of control yet. I just didn't think I had the multitasking to finish the game. I also didn't want to spend the next 30 + minutes trying to get back into the game.
Protoss mass expo play > ADHD
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On December 08 2009 16:29 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 16:21 T.O.P. wrote:
Vultures + Science Vessels > DTs + probes.
Alternatively, I think SK terran would work well too.
On a more serious note, I think TvP is much harder nowdays since a lot of protoss are going dt rush into Arbitors. That build owns. Rushing straight to archives then building one or even zero DTs is such a great build at D level. Scares terrans so bad they don't expand for 2 years. I once had a terran GG before I even attacked him because I took 4 bases at about the same time he took his nat.
yea thats what basically happened.
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LOL i even have been experimenting with firebat, medic, tank build. It's a riot 
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On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
I'm not gong to apologize. I'm just going to regret and try to get better. Some Ukraine fuck named kriv0y did it. If you know him and he wants an apology, tell him I'll think about it.
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It's okay, the first season I ever played on iCCup I had like a 20-30% winrate for ZvT. The last season I played I bumped it up to 40-50% but it was mainly due to me getting pissed off and playing really abusive builds rather than because of a serious increase in management skill for the matchup.
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On December 08 2009 16:11 NastyMarine wrote:
My TvZ win ratio is about 61% and my TvP ratio is at a dismal 26%. TERRIBLE.
Terrible, TERRIBLE win-ratio!
I find TvP hard myself.
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On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
Finally someone of another race says this.
On December 08 2009 16:51 lazz wrote:
dont play on python, it's a terrible map. if you do play on it just 2 fac or 6-7 fac all in off 2 base.
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dont play on python, it's a terrible map. if you do play on it just 2 fac or 6-7 fac all in off 2 base.
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I played you today :D
That was probably my worst game of the season too. Remember the goons at your nat forever, that was me. I was only able to harass you for so long because you let me delay your rax and fac long enough that I could get that zealot in there and my goons kept your tank count really low.
Try doing the siege expand and do not let anything make you stop building your rax and first factory, toss can do whatever he wants without you having enough tanks up.
You did harass well, my economy was fucked up the entire game until I got my 4-5 bases.
Even though the game went on forever you never got any (or 1?) upgrades and I just simply a-moved over your army every time.
But to be fair I did just start on this account and I am D+ish.
I reckon you should Liquipedia it up:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Siege_Expand
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Double_Armory_(vs._Protoss)
They should help you a lot, you've probably already looked at these, but just in case you haven't, there you go.
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Colosseum. Flash build every time. If you see him mass expoing, just push out. I guarantee it'll work at D level. Just watch out for DTs.
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On December 08 2009 16:50 Camlito wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/ Finally someone of another race says this.
I think its been a known fact for a while now that TvZ at lower levels is very imbalanced in favour of terran o_o
just as PvT is in favour of protoss
ZvP is imbalanced all over :D
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yo nastymarine i haven't played in forever
lets battle it up a few
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All terrans are BM. If they weren't they would have quit SC already. PvT may be harder at progame level where both play with exceptional mechanics. But any T below C+ would almost instantly gain a rank if they switched to P. And as P they would be very bad because it's their offrace.
NastyMarine, sure there is a way to improve your play. You can climb the ranks. But unless you get really good you will always lose to some protoss that you know has terrible mechanics and terrible game sense.
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BAWWWW TERRAN HARD PROTOSS EASY
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I have a question OP- Why do you play on python so much???? I hope that you realize that playing the motw is the best bet for you, and playing python is simply going to stagnate your play. Also Python is not going to be an easy map for a beginner T v P to learn the MU. The reason being, is your expos are far apart, and it's difficult to push through a map that is essentially a giant field.
This also could explain your nice T v Z record as beginner zergs can also have a problem taking and securing a third base, when it is so far away from their natural. While the open field does tend to lend its self to easy flanking and surrounding, a beginner terran will see the advantage.
I would suggest playing a different map set.
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Hey I used to be protoss, I know. I was so bad and beat so many solid solid terrans.
As for Python, yes it's good for high level TvP but not so good for low level TvP. Especially with cross positions. Hard third gas means you basically had to do a 2 base push. And that can't even be attempted cross position. But it is a good map for practice. People always bash on Python. Yeah, it's overplayed. But people claim it's a boring macro map. They are so wrong. Python is actually a technical map.
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Haha I saw you in ladder D, thought about joining your game but felt like since I recognized your name it'd be too brutal to stomp you for my selfish indulgence lol ): Good luck!
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Play on some Terran friendly maps that are played often, or at least kinda often like Othello or something.
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On December 08 2009 17:13 koreasilver wrote:
Play on some Terran friendly maps that are played often, or at least kinda often like Othello or something.
Yo. FUCK that map for PvT. I have to proxy robo every game otherwise I can't take a third base without some sort of cliffgay dropgay proxygay by the Terran.
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On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
Yeah, except at lower levels of play TvZ is way harder than ZvT. At D all you gotta do as zerg is do something involving mutalisks then make sure your lurkers aren't too late, and get defilers and you won, not to mention the amount of wins you can get with ling runbys, and muta-ling attacks in the mid-game (at D level,) while Terran has to macro like crazy every 15 seconds, make sure he's safe from runbys, lurker drops, and mutas, while keeping zerg expos down to prevent being 1a2a3a'd by ultralisks, and being able to keep the zerg away from his nat choke due to the risk of losing it to just 1 defiler a few lurkers and 2 control groups of zerglings...
All you ever do in all your posts is cry that Terran is imba, it's getting old, you've been banned for that once before, but apparently not for long enough.
Also, pretty sure terran requires more multitask than protoss regardless of the level of play in tvp/pvt.
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lol dude-- i feel your pain. i've tried from both sides, and I swear protoss is easier. i never played protoss past D+, but I beat a C- terran with protoss today. he was totally pissed since i kept suiciding my zealots into his tanks while dragging as many mines as i could. nothing hard about that.
i do envy your tvz though. my tvz D+ lately has been abysmal. I keep losing to early lings-- either his initial 6 or the 12-18 he builds. even though i always know they're coming, i haven't been able to stop them. if i bunker up, he runs by, wreaks havoc around my base, then sends more to attack my nat workers while my marines are busy in the main. then, his inability to macro pays off (at least i think it's his inability to macro) because once spire pops, he gets to blow 900/900 on mutas. tons of time to micro lings without consequence (last time, the death of his lings ENABLED him to build his 9 mutas without getting food stuck!).
that's just my beef with zerg in your blog. lol
good luck against protoss though!
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When you started bitching about protoss it invalidated your whole post.
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Yeah people always claim that yeah TvP is too hard but that TvZ is easier. This is not true either. TvZ requires even more insane mechanics from T. But unlike PvT in ZvT Z actually has to use his/her brain and know some builds. If you just practice muta micro for 10 minutes every day you don't need much of anything else. And Hive tech is so absurd. At D level you auto win with Ultras. At D+ level you can start to abuse swarm, which is ridiculous. And as D+ T you can't even try to play SK terran. You need tanks or else the micro is just too absurd. Lurkers are fucking insane.
And yes like Day[9] mentions if you just drop 8 lings in T's base you can take out like 4 depots before they can do anything about it. Ling damage is just crazy. Lurker damage and ling damage under swarm...
If you can get the hang of getting a good attack done on T then that alone, like muta micro, will get you pretty far.
And lurker drops wtf. If they get in between your buildings you can't even do anything if you don't have a tank out.
ZvT is not like PvT, but I never was Z and I have beat some terrans in ZvT that were supposed to be not too bad compared to my T. Yeah, those games were ugly and scrappy. But still I somehow won.
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*sigh* to end this-
In Terran vs Zerg: Terran leads the match up and dictates the pace.
In Zerg vs Protoss: Zerg leads the match up and dictates the pace.
In Protoss vs Terran: Prtoss leads the match up and dictates the pace.
So depending on what side of the match up you play, you have a dominant MU and defensive MU. For zerg, dominant is vs P and defensive is vs T. Just like in chess, white plays to win, where as black plays to draw. starcraft can be seen in the same way. So when players complain about one race being 'imba' they are really complaining about the inherent MU and the way there race should be played against X race.
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No they aren't. PvZ is also ridiculously easy at the low levels. Yeah you are absolutely right that Z has a huge strategic advantage over P in the current metagame. You can't even compare it with PvT or TvZ. But that all doesn't matter if you both have 80 apm and are both terribad. P will just win easily. No contest. It's just that PvZ will balance out a bit earlier than PvT once the skill level increases.
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On December 08 2009 17:29 Misrah wrote:
*sigh* to end this-
In Terran vs Zerg: Terran leads the match up and dictates the pace.
In Zerg vs Protoss: Zerg leads the match up and dictates the pace.
In Protoss vs Terran: Prtoss leads the match up and dictates the pace.
So depending on what side of the match up you play, you have a dominant MU and defensive MU. For zerg, dominant is vs P and defensive is vs T. Just like in chess, white plays to win, where as black plays to draw. starcraft can be seen in the same way. So when players complain about one race being 'imba' they are really complaining about the inherent MU and the way there race should be played against X race.
This is true except for when you start talking about terran.
The difference there is if terran goes bio against zerg, even though Protoss is the harder match up for terran strategically (Protoss has the initiative, or w.e you're saying.) TvZ is wayyyy harder for Terran mechanically, on the other hand if you go mech, the Zerg doesn't need to be as defensive/good strategically, the zerg just needs to macro well and not suicide units (talking about the OP's level here, obviously at higher levels it's different, and at progamer level it's different again.)
so, terran doesn't really have an "easy" match up when you're D. Obviously things change drastically once you get up in ranks, and you have the multitask to both build marines, and use them effectively >_>.
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Hey, I got an idea. If Protoss is so easy, why don't you just play them? It isn't too smart to play a "harder" race that apparently drives you to BM people and make rage blogs.
And TvZ is easy at D ranks, just BBS.
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^ Pvanything is easy at D ranks, just proxy 2 gate
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TvZ mech would be rather easy. But right now there's no map where it is really strong. It kinda was on Destination. But even Destination wasn't the perfect mech map.
On the perfect mech map T would only really have to get the proper BOs and strategies down. And then maybe the game gets easier for T. But such a map would be hugely imba at progamer level. So it won't even happen.
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On December 08 2009 17:58 Kiarip wrote:
^ Pvanything is easy at D ranks, just proxy 2 gate
then play P and whine less
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Protoss players love PvP so much they want everyone to play P too. How great SC would be if everyone played P...
If everyone played P then Blizzard would nerf P. So be glad some people have enough pride to play Z or T.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. Protoss is imba
One of my pracc. accounts, dbgksehd has:
PvT 90% win ratio (9-1)
PvZ 64% win ratio (9-5)
PvP 27% win ration (3-8)
PVP IMBAAA
No, seriously. If you're losing to mass expand-Dts and cannons, it probably says more about you than that "noob" protoss you played. As a d+/c- protoss, I can tell you that getting attacked in multiple sites (i.e. getting vult dropped in main, 2 siege tanks siegining my 3rd, just drives protosses crazy)
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Sure. But a T that's able to pull that off without sacrificing micro or macro is above C-.
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Stop complaining about how hard it is to play Terran at low levels and just get better.
You can believe you're a better player than everyone you lose to but in the end no one really cares.
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Braavos36379 Posts
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining
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Nice to have someone who doesn't even play SC give us the end all on balance...
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Learn fantasy build
Usually you get so ahead with your intial drop you can just finish the game with a timing push.
The only reason why im actually winning tvp lately;;
Also depends when you play
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On December 08 2009 20:01 Hot_Bid wrote:
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining
There is only one, playing T in TvP...
But seriously TvP is all about understanding timings. If you have missed your timing window by any mean just turtle. If there is no harras and you got free macro time and good scout information (D/D+ lvls) just do a timing...gg go re.
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On December 08 2009 22:57 IceCube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 20:01 Hot_Bid wrote:
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining There is only one, playing T in TvP... But seriously TvP is all about understanding timings. If you have missed your timing window by any mean just turtle. If there is no harras and you got free macro time and good scout information (D/D+ lvls) just do a timing...gg go re.
Not at D levels. Why do you assume the protoss doesn't suck just as much as the terran in TvP. It's not like the protoss is going to be expanding and cutting probes at the perfect time to shut down timing pushes, I doubt a D protoss even knows what a flank is, let alone is able to pull one off.
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On December 08 2009 17:16 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 17:13 koreasilver wrote:
Play on some Terran friendly maps that are played often, or at least kinda often like Othello or something. Yo. FUCK that map for PvT. I have to proxy robo every game otherwise I can't take a third base without some sort of cliffgay dropgay proxygay by the Terran.
Yeah, ZvT on Othello is pretty terrible. I've learned not to play ZvT on that map.
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On December 08 2009 23:13 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 22:57 IceCube wrote:On December 08 2009 20:01 Hot_Bid wrote:
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining There is only one, playing T in TvP... But seriously TvP is all about understanding timings. If you have missed your timing window by any mean just turtle. If there is no harras and you got free macro time and good scout information (D/D+ lvls) just do a timing...gg go re. Not at D levels. Why do you assume the protoss doesn't suck just as much as the terran in TvP. It's not like the protoss is going to be expanding and cutting probes at the perfect time to shut down timing pushes, I doubt a D protoss even knows what a flank is, let alone is able to pull one off.
Its like this: if you go with 120 1-0 push and doesn't do it perfectly (D lvl Terrans miss this timing by 1-2mins even without harras) you get rolled by 1a2a3a toss with 100apm toss with D lvl macro. No? I won't even begin to talk about 4fact push which most impatient (read inexperience) Terrans do at D lvl coz they scouted not so big toss army and then they do this push with not so good positioning and with few or without any mines...again gg to 100apm 1a2a3a toss.
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Timing pushes are not recommended for D level TvP.
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I wish all terrans were as gm as you. The last game i played i was literally delayed about an hour by a terran who refused to leave the game even though i had him contained with a 200/200 army and i was on 5 bases, him on 2. I suicided half my army into his tanks and built carriers, but even as they were ready he kept refusing that the game was over even though he was mined out and had no units building, nor was he able to.
Terran's are so bm.
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On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
lol @ tvz imbalanced
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ultras, mutas, and defilers have something to say about that ;D
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So many people with bad attitudes on here... I've held off from playing on ICCup so far because I wanted to get decent with some friends still but reading so many negative and ridiculous views is causing my interest to dwindle.
One question though... If all he was doing was massing cannons and not building anything until DTs then how could you miss scouting this, realizing you were home free to take another base, and siege outside of his with a turret for protection?
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On December 08 2009 17:17 Always wrote:
i do envy your tvz though. my tvz D+ lately has been abysmal. I keep losing to early lings-- either his initial 6 or the 12-18 he builds. even though i always know they're coming, i haven't been able to stop them. if i bunker up, he runs by, wreaks havoc around my base, then sends more to attack my nat workers while my marines are busy in the main. then, his inability to macro pays off (at least i think it's his inability to macro) because once spire pops, he gets to blow 900/900 on mutas. tons of time to micro lings without consequence (last time, the death of his lings ENABLED him to build his 9 mutas without getting food stuck!).
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/3_Hatch_Muta_(vs._Terran)
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On December 09 2009 01:23 anderoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 17:17 Always wrote:
i do envy your tvz though. my tvz D+ lately has been abysmal. I keep losing to early lings-- either his initial 6 or the 12-18 he builds. even though i always know they're coming, i haven't been able to stop them. if i bunker up, he runs by, wreaks havoc around my base, then sends more to attack my nat workers while my marines are busy in the main. then, his inability to macro pays off (at least i think it's his inability to macro) because once spire pops, he gets to blow 900/900 on mutas. tons of time to micro lings without consequence (last time, the death of his lings ENABLED him to build his 9 mutas without getting food stuck!).
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/3_Hatch_Muta_(vs._Terran)
wow are people really this ignorant
I would only agree with Always in regards to ultras, but even most D- players know that you're supposed to save larva for mutas
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On December 08 2009 23:13 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 22:57 IceCube wrote:On December 08 2009 20:01 Hot_Bid wrote:
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining There is only one, playing T in TvP... But seriously TvP is all about understanding timings. If you have missed your timing window by any mean just turtle. If there is no harras and you got free macro time and good scout information (D/D+ lvls) just do a timing...gg go re. Not at D levels. Why do you assume the protoss doesn't suck just as much as the terran in TvP. It's not like the protoss is going to be expanding and cutting probes at the perfect time to shut down timing pushes, I doubt a D protoss even knows what a flank is, let alone is able to pull one off.
Well the fact is, a terran and protoss army of equal strength/mineral value, the less micro'd they are, the higher chance of protoss victory. Conclusion: Protoss requires less micro and can just go back to macro
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I play on Python to strengthen my mechanics. As a Terran, your already at odds with the huge center battlefield, and your third base will always be different so it enhances your decision making skills.
Most people play on (2) or (3) player maps which minimizes the choices you must making during the game.
Or maybe I'm just making it hard on myself 
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On December 08 2009 17:11 fanatacist wrote:
Haha I saw you in ladder D, thought about joining your game but felt like since I recognized your name it'd be too brutal to stomp you for my selfish indulgence lol ): Good luck!
I WELCOME THE CHALLENGE NUB! :D
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I love how everyone starts talking imbalance when all I did was tell everyone how angry I was that I lost to a simple D build. I love it lol.
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On December 09 2009 01:54 NastyMarine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 17:11 fanatacist wrote:
Haha I saw you in ladder D, thought about joining your game but felt like since I recognized your name it'd be too brutal to stomp you for my selfish indulgence lol ): Good luck! I WELCOME THE CHALLENGE NUB! :D
Okay, I will add you on ICC and stalk you a bit, then post in this thread once I've stomped you (:
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On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
Typical Terran. Bashing Protoss as "easy" to play when he realizes TvP is not imbalanced like TvZ.
Stop whining and actually practice. If he makes substantial number of DT's, he's wasting gas if you are prepared for detection
PvT is harder than TvP at higher levels, or at least thats what me + my friends believe
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/
PvT is much easier for protoss, and with muta micro now TvZ isnt as imba as PvT. And at higher levels P still > T i find. Anyway a discussion like this is pretty useless, as people always say taht the race they play is harder than any other race (I can't count how many zergs say protoss is OP with storms), and I'm no exception I guess lol
Anyway on topic, a replay would really really help. No1 can help you without seeing what youre doing wrong. Are you laying mines everywhere? If u are then mass DTs are totally negated. Are you getting flanked? If you are theres something wrong with the way u push out and your unit placement. Is protoss taking the entire map? Then you need to work on your timing attacks. If protoss flanks your push and takes the map then congratulate him for doing what hes supposed to do. TvP is a lot less intuitive than TvZ I find.
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On December 09 2009 01:45 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 23:13 sixghost wrote:On December 08 2009 22:57 IceCube wrote:On December 08 2009 20:01 Hot_Bid wrote:
theres no imbalance at D level, quit whining There is only one, playing T in TvP... But seriously TvP is all about understanding timings. If you have missed your timing window by any mean just turtle. If there is no harras and you got free macro time and good scout information (D/D+ lvls) just do a timing...gg go re. Not at D levels. Why do you assume the protoss doesn't suck just as much as the terran in TvP. It's not like the protoss is going to be expanding and cutting probes at the perfect time to shut down timing pushes, I doubt a D protoss even knows what a flank is, let alone is able to pull one off. Well the fact is, a terran and protoss army of equal strength/mineral value, the less micro'd they are, the higher chance of protoss victory. Conclusion: Protoss requires less micro and can just go back to macro
This already stops working at D+ level though, the micro required to beat a terran push increases with the micro put into constructing the push. At D level you can just A move, at D+ you already need to clone zeals to move on tanks instead of attacking mines, micro goons to shoot and step forward, drop zeals from shuttles onto tanks, clone storms, do stasis, otherwise you get melted.
It isnt hard to micro a terran push, its hard to micro it and macro/multitask at the same time, but its easier for the protoss to do the same.
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At D level TvP on Python seems pretty easy to me. Most D Protoss can't stop a simple 5 or 6 fact timing push, and if you don't want to do that you can do dropship harass -> take island and then just win with (hopefully) superior macro.
Also, in certain positions you can slow push really easily into the protoss nat and take a easily defendable third (12/9, 6/3).
Its just like any other map, you can't just do one build on every map and expect it to win. Flash style quick 3rd builds just don't work unless you take the island.
EDIT: And lol TvZ is SOO imba at low levels. I know I can't for the life of me successfully muta harass while taking a third teching lurkers and macroing properly. Meanwhile Terran just does 3 tank 1 vessel push and kills zerg before defilers are out. TvZ is probably my second highest win % mu, after PvT.
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On December 09 2009 01:52 NastyMarine wrote:I play on Python to strengthen my mechanics. As a Terran, your already at odds with the huge center battlefield, and your third base will always be different so it enhances your decision making skills. Most people play on (2) or (3) player maps which minimizes the choices you must making during the game. Or maybe I'm just making it hard on myself
Actually the number of viable cheeses are smaller on 4 player maps then 2 or 3 player maps which might make them abit easier to some people.
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Terran is uber hard at D. Hardest mu to play at D and PvT being one of the easiest. I understand your pain. my friend said i had C- TvZ and i never won a single game when i play TvP. Made me ragequit terran for good. just learn solid bos and watch Flash dismantle protosses.
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PvT is so effing hard man. Try stopping a 6 fact timing push..holy cow
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On December 09 2009 05:47 jimminy_kriket wrote:
PvT is so effing hard man. Try stopping a 6 fact timing push..holy cow
>>... making TvP harder for the OP....
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On December 09 2009 05:15 numLoCK wrote:
At D level TvP on Python seems pretty easy to me. Most D Protoss can't stop a simple 5 or 6 fact timing push, and if you don't want to do that you can do dropship harass -> take island and then just win with (hopefully) superior macro.
Also, in certain positions you can slow push really easily into the protoss nat and take a easily defendable third (12/9, 6/3).
Its just like any other map, you can't just do one build on every map and expect it to win. Flash style quick 3rd builds just don't work unless you take the island.
EDIT: And lol TvZ is SOO imba at low levels. I know I can't for the life of me successfully muta harass while taking a third teching lurkers and macroing properly. Meanwhile Terran just does 3 tank 1 vessel push and kills zerg before defilers are out. TvZ is probably my second highest win % mu, after PvT.
Cause it takes insane APM to click drone ---> right click expo on minimap and to click hydra den ---> click lurker aspect right? I agree that muta haras and macro are hard to do together, but it doesnt take more than 3 clicks to tech to lurkers lolol. Besides muta harass doesnt last too too long and since terran builds have adapted to its timing the whole point is just to camp mutas to prevent a terran from moving out for a while. Not like its constant micro. Every race has its difficulties. I find marine micro vs good lurkers / zerglings pretty hard, and once defilers are out its just a bitch but thats oly my opinion
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Survive the early-mid game buddy. When you hit 3 base 200/200 3/3 everyone is fucked
+ Show Spoiler +but on a serious note...
Brush up on your build orders buddy. On python a 1 fac cc is a safe build that will secure you a semblance of balance. Once you secure your natural take the island bases at the 1 or 7. Those bases are safe (relatively) and will secure you a money advantage.
8 Factories heading into the late game is optimal with 3-4 focused on tank production.
Double armories and sci vessels are needed to stop recalls and melt goons
But seriously.. good TvP comes with time. practice s'more
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On December 09 2009 05:59 atm0sphere33 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2009 05:15 numLoCK wrote:
At D level TvP on Python seems pretty easy to me. Most D Protoss can't stop a simple 5 or 6 fact timing push, and if you don't want to do that you can do dropship harass -> take island and then just win with (hopefully) superior macro.
Also, in certain positions you can slow push really easily into the protoss nat and take a easily defendable third (12/9, 6/3).
Its just like any other map, you can't just do one build on every map and expect it to win. Flash style quick 3rd builds just don't work unless you take the island.
EDIT: And lol TvZ is SOO imba at low levels. I know I can't for the life of me successfully muta harass while taking a third teching lurkers and macroing properly. Meanwhile Terran just does 3 tank 1 vessel push and kills zerg before defilers are out. TvZ is probably my second highest win % mu, after PvT. Cause it takes insane APM to click drone ---> right click expo on minimap and to click hydra den ---> click lurker aspect right? I agree that muta haras and macro are hard to do together, but it doesnt take more than 3 clicks to tech to lurkers lolol. Besides muta harass doesnt last too too long and since terran builds have adapted to its timing the whole point is just to camp mutas to prevent a terran from moving out for a while. Not like its constant micro. Every race has its difficulties. I find marine micro vs good lurkers / zerglings pretty hard, and once defilers are out its just a bitch but thats oly my opinion
Just voicing my opinion as a 150 APM Protoss player that consistently hits 200+ APM ZvT out of sheer necessity. Playing SK Terran TvZ is obviously incredibly difficult and no D Terran should be expected to consistently pull it off, but a more Tank centered Bio play isn't too intense, even with the shabby macro that is to be expected from us low level players.
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On December 09 2009 06:53 numLoCK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2009 05:59 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 09 2009 05:15 numLoCK wrote:
At D level TvP on Python seems pretty easy to me. Most D Protoss can't stop a simple 5 or 6 fact timing push, and if you don't want to do that you can do dropship harass -> take island and then just win with (hopefully) superior macro.
Also, in certain positions you can slow push really easily into the protoss nat and take a easily defendable third (12/9, 6/3).
Its just like any other map, you can't just do one build on every map and expect it to win. Flash style quick 3rd builds just don't work unless you take the island.
EDIT: And lol TvZ is SOO imba at low levels. I know I can't for the life of me successfully muta harass while taking a third teching lurkers and macroing properly. Meanwhile Terran just does 3 tank 1 vessel push and kills zerg before defilers are out. TvZ is probably my second highest win % mu, after PvT. Cause it takes insane APM to click drone ---> right click expo on minimap and to click hydra den ---> click lurker aspect right? I agree that muta haras and macro are hard to do together, but it doesnt take more than 3 clicks to tech to lurkers lolol. Besides muta harass doesnt last too too long and since terran builds have adapted to its timing the whole point is just to camp mutas to prevent a terran from moving out for a while. Not like its constant micro. Every race has its difficulties. I find marine micro vs good lurkers / zerglings pretty hard, and once defilers are out its just a bitch but thats oly my opinion Just voicing my opinion as a 150 APM Protoss player that consistently hits 200+ APM ZvT out of sheer necessity. Playing SK Terran TvZ is obviously incredibly difficult and no D Terran should be expected to consistently pull it off, but a more Tank centered Bio play isn't too intense, even with the shabby macro that is to be expected from us low level players.
ZvT is notoriously difficult. You need ridiculous control to stall a terran and keep him in his base while you secure a third gas and hive tech. Even a 200/200 swarm/ultraling army is hard to control. Spreading swarms, consuming and whatnot takes a lot out of a man. So i'm always impressed when a Terran is statistically good vs Protoss, or when Zerg is good vs a Terran.
Pure SK terran in a TvZ is sooo hard. 300 apm is a necessity with proper control..
near impossible for the D/C ranks
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On December 09 2009 00:03 ghermination wrote:
I wish all terrans were as gm as you. The last game i played i was literally delayed about an hour by a terran who refused to leave the game even though i had him contained with a 200/200 army and i was on 5 bases, him on 2. I suicided half my army into his tanks and built carriers, but even as they were ready he kept refusing that the game was over even though he was mined out and had no units building, nor was he able to.
Terran's are so bm.
oh the irony~
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Challenge has been met, your favorite asshole has come out victorious.
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On December 08 2009 16:37 NastyMarine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 16:27 AzureEye wrote:
EDIT: What makes your blog post worse is that you admitted that you were trash talking to the opponent just because you lost. And you don't even feel remorse for it. BM as hell =/ I'm not gong to apologize. I'm just going to regret and try to get better. Some Ukraine fuck named kriv0y did it. If you know him and he wants an apology, tell him I'll think about it.
My apologies will not be located at you in a mouth. You LOL and Noooob!
User was warned for this post
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Worst bump in quite a while. If you're going to bump a 7 month old thread, make it worthwhile, and at least comprehensible :\.
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EPT
