| Blogs > Foucault |
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
I don't have much to do today that I know of. Also I'm a bit ill. SO I was thinking I'd play a game. Any kind of game but preferrably Shooter/RPG. Just to give you a hint of the games that I like I will start by saying that I loved Baldur's gate 1 and 2. I also loved Jedi Academy 2. Um I was thinking Halo or Icewind Dale 2. My computer isn't super good, 3,0 mhz P4, 512 mb graphics, 2 gb RAM.   | ||
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
Also, go here before you make your character and browse the guide. Specifically main/secondary character combos. | ||
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
Neverwinter Nights I & II ? yes ? no? what? | ||
GTR
51415 Posts
for reference i had a 3ghz p4, 1.5gb ram and a 7600 gs and it BARELY ran nwn2, but it was simply unplayable. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Ok, being a bit more serious here, hows about Duex Ex? It's pretty old and it's pretty good. | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
On September 30 2009 19:59 GTR wrote: mirror's edge and nwn2 will not run on a 3ghz p4. for reference i had a 3ghz p4, 1.5gb ram and a 7600 gs and it BARELY ran nwn2, but it was simply unplayable. I played NWN2 fine on an Athlon64 3000+ with 1.5GB RAM. I think I ran it on a GeForce 6800, but it might have been my Radeon 9800 before it overheated and died. Try the Gothic games, I enjoyed them a great deal. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
Shameless self promotion  pm me if you're interested | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
If not, get a Super Nintendo emulator and play Chrono Trigger or Contra 3 :> Usually when bored I'll bust out old consoles and play through games I never quite finished and usually I'll get a lot more out of it than I did however many years ago. If you havent touched pokemon in years, that game cures boredom pretty damn well  | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
before i read the op i thought you wanted a game to watch  | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
Hmm KotoR seems like a good idea. And Gothic, Deus ex, NWN and Mirrors edge. Thanks! | ||
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On September 30 2009 21:23 Spenguin wrote: Why? You'll only lose it. huh? | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On September 30 2009 21:29 JohnColtrane wrote: any of the elder scrolls games (daggerfall, morrowind and oblivion being my favs...didnt play arena, redguard or battlespire much.) Open RPGs, very interesting lore and very fun. I was just thinking how good the other Elder Scrolls games are compared to Oblivion (which I've completed)? I might try Morrowind actually | ||
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Chromyne
Canada561 Posts
On September 30 2009 21:18 Foucault wrote: Yeah thing is I never really played nintendo when I was a kid, I was more into C64/Amiga/Atari. Hmm KotoR seems like a good idea. And Gothic, Deus ex, NWN and Mirrors edge. Thanks! All the more reason to break out a SNES emulator and play Chrono Trigger. IMO an amazing RPG. | ||
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Neivler
Norway911 Posts
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Ingenol
United States1328 Posts
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ForTheSwarm
United States556 Posts
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
On September 30 2009 19:59 GTR wrote: mirror's edge and nwn2 will not run on a 3ghz p4. for reference i had a 3ghz p4, 1.5gb ram and a 7600 gs and it BARELY ran nwn2, but it was simply unplayable. Maybe you had some software issues there? Because I had no problems with 7900GT, 2.2GHz and 1 - 2 Gb ram(I got 1gb more at one point when I still had Vista (that leech -_-), the comps 4-5 years old. NWN 2 I think I had atleast medium settings even. Crysis ran nicely too and not all of visual settings were at lowest. And I´m just playing Mirrors Edge Of course you can´t put the settings at max.... Or then you had notebook = fail at everything. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Manbear
Canada306 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + But seriously if you go the emulator route I HIGHLY recommend Mega-man X X2 and X3 great games for the SNES great games. | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
On September 30 2009 21:48 Foucault wrote: I was just thinking how good the other Elder Scrolls games are compared to Oblivion (which I've completed)? I might try Morrowind actually morrowind is way better than oblivion in terms of plot/general gameplay. the atmosphere about the game is just so much better than oblivion. unfortunately, it doesn't have some nice things that oblivion has though, like characters sleeping etc. and there are way more factions you can join and stuff. if you like oblivion you will definitely like morrowind. | ||
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
On September 30 2009 23:56 Nitrogen wrote: morrowind is way better than oblivion in terms of plot/general gameplay. the atmosphere about the game is just so much better than oblivion. unfortunately, it doesn't have some nice things that oblivion has though, like characters sleeping etc. and there are way more factions you can join and stuff. if you like oblivion you will definitely like morrowind. I´d be quite bored if my character took a few hour long nap mid game | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
play some fall out 3 or bioshock, you can always play cs or tf2 that are always fun play throught the hl saga :D, by the time your finished you'll be well again obilivion and morrowind are really good aswell btw | ||
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Manbear
Canada306 Posts
On October 01 2009 00:08 Scaramanga wrote: mirrors edge is terrible, dont listen to gtr play some fall out 3 or bioshock, you can always play cs or tf2 that are always fun I second this Fallout 3 and TF2 are great games, haven't played much Bioshock unfortunately | ||
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
On October 01 2009 00:08 Scaramanga wrote: mirrors edge is terrible, dont listen to gtr play some fall out 3 or bioshock, you can always play cs or tf2 that are always fun play throught the hl saga :D, by the time your finished you'll be well again obilivion and morrowind are really good aswell btw No it´s fun, too much shooting though IMO and fighting is terrible -_- Fallout 3 was so meh. Bioshock was good in the beginning then it went meh too. | ||
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Bioshock is an ok game, I guess. I didn't quite dig the story side as much as other people did although the atmosphere was pretty cool I reckoned. The shooting could have been handled better, as well as the plasmids, but it did ok by me. The Witcher is an... interesting game. It's got a pretty damn good plot, some cool dialogue and themes, piss easy combat and very bleh RPG elements. It's great if you want to play a game but not good if you want to play a character, if that makes sense to you. Also, titties on display basically everywhere. Seriously, I could not believe the wide variety of sexual partners (and stature thereof, and ease of which they surrender themselves to Geralt) they put in this game, it's crazy! Bordering on sexist really... If you do want to give it a shot, and it's probably not everyone's cup of tea, then make sure to outlast the agonising prologue section. I call it agonizing because although the tutorial is plenty informative they hadn't found good translations yet so it makes for some terrible listening. The translations get right on track after that for the rest of the game save for a few weird bits. | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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nofAcedAgent
United States952 Posts
This game is an absolute gem, the only catch is you must (!) install the www.co9.org fan mod. Unfortunatley it was rushed out the door by its publishers and was released buggy. The mod polishes this game into the best CRPG combat system ever.. Incidently it also stays most true to the D&D core rules. (which I actually know nothing about. but still this games hardcore). Best of all its turn based. Unlike that psudeo realtime auto-pause crap like the Infinity engine games. This game is hardcore. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 30 2009 19:47 Foucault wrote: Um I was thinking Halo or Icewind Dale 2. My computer isn't super good, 3,0 mhz P4, 512 mb graphics, 2 gb RAM. Halo is meh on PC (always feels like you're underwater, because the speed and controls were optimized for consoles). Icewind Dale 2 is ok, but an overall poor implementation of the D&D3.0 ruleset. IMO the original Icewind Dale was better, but many people disagree with me on that. On September 30 2009 19:53 Gryffindor_us wrote: Knights of the Old Republic. Edit: I suppose my response was rather lackluster. It has an awesome story with a tolerable combat system. IF you're expecting JKAcademy like combat here or must have it then you should look elsewhere. It's an awesome game and it's 9.99 on steam. If you don't care about story or characters then I would probably not play it XD. Also, go here before you make your character and browse the guide. Specifically main/secondary character combos. No. It's a great introduction to the PC RPG Genre, but honestly does not hold a candle to the Baldur's Gate series. Any playthrough of that game after BG and BG2 just has you seeing the bad references to the BG series they make (character archetypes, etc.). On September 30 2009 20:41 Licmyobelisk wrote: Mount and Blade Shameless self promotion pm me if you're interested You made Mount and Blade? That game is so badass. On September 30 2009 21:48 Foucault wrote: I was just thinking how good the other Elder Scrolls games are compared to Oblivion (which I've completed)? I might try Morrowind actually Morrowind is better than Oblivion, lore-wise, IMO. It's more atmospheric. Oblivion was basically Daggerfall with nicer graphics, so if you finished Oblivion, you aren't missing much from Daggerfall. Recommendations I second: Deus Ex, Gothic, Mount and Blade, Morrowind, System Shock 2 (basically the same game as Bioshock, except it's scifi-which I consider a plus, and will run better on shitty systems, though the graphics are poorer by a fair margin), Fallout 1/2 (better than 3 IMO). The Witcher and NWN2 (ESPECIALLY Mask of the Betrayer) are also good, but might not run well on your system. My own recommendation: Planescape Torment. Best RPG, plot-wise, ever. Period. Not debatable. I know there are others on this forum who will agree with me on this. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On October 01 2009 02:10 nofAcedAgent wrote: Its your gonna go isometric rpg. Play The Temple Of Elemental Evil. Please. This game is an absolute gem, the only catch is you must (!) install the www.co9.org fan mod. Unfortunatley it was rushed out the door by its publishers and was released buggy. The mod polishes this game into the best CRPG combat system ever.. Incidently it also stays most true to the D&D core rules. (which I actually know nothing about. but still this games hardcore). Best of all its turn based. Unlike that psudeo realtime auto-pause crap like the Infinity engine games. This game is hardcore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzdvC0vGNrs&feature=response_watch Hells yeah, I love isometric RPG:s. I played Ultima Online for 4 years and I loved BG/BG2, so this game could probably be awesome! | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
need i say more? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 01 2009 02:10 nofAcedAgent wrote: Its your gonna go isometric rpg. Play The Temple Of Elemental Evil. Please. This game is an absolute gem, the only catch is you must (!) install the www.co9.org fan mod. Unfortunatley it was rushed out the door by its publishers and was released buggy. The mod polishes this game into the best CRPG combat system ever.. Incidently it also stays most true to the D&D core rules. (which I actually know nothing about. but still this games hardcore). Best of all its turn based. Unlike that psudeo realtime auto-pause crap like the Infinity engine games. ToEE is a decent game, but you're really overrating two elements of it, particularly combat: 1) D&D3.5E is not the best combat system ever. Not by a wide margin. Hell, anyone who's played tabletop and knows their way around the PHB reasonably should know that it's one of the most flat-out imbalanced combat systems ever. Spellcasters are just stupid good past level 5. A 6th level Druid can cast spells while in Wild Shape, meaning that he's basically unkillable with contributions from armor, wild shape natural armor, and buffs. At level 7, Clerics and Wizards pick up the slack--by which I mean a level 7 Cleric is STRICTLY better than a level 7 Fighter (thank you Divine Power), and a Wizard comes pretty damn close (Polymorph). On top of that, half of the cool details of 3.5E D&D are worthless. No one bull rushes or disarms, and people rarely trip, because in about 90% of the fights they'd be useful, you have zero chance of success. Ready against a charge? Too bad the AI doesn't charge. Ready a counterspell? Sure, on the 1% chance that the enemy happens to cast a spell you have, you can waste a spell to counter him instead of killing him. 90% of my fights progressed like this: 1) Cast area-disabling spells until everyone is disabled (Sleep/Glitterdust/Dispel Magic/Stinking Cloud, etc.; skip this step against boss monsters) 2) Summon monsters to tank, and cast single-target disabling spells (Confusion, Feeblemind, Blindness/Deafness, etc.; can usually be skipped to save time) 3) Cast buffs (Haste, Divine Power, Righteous Might, etc.; again, skip this step to save time) 4) Beat the disabled enemies silly. Rogues get sneak attack against sleeping/blinded/otherwise incapacitated enemies, so this step is usually retardedly fast. The only times this strategy might not work is against a monster that happens to be immune to one or more of my disabling spells, and doesn't die to a team of buff-spammed spellcasters, in which case I leave, lock myself in a room, re-learn either different disabling spells, attack spells, or just more buffs/summons, and go back. The Infinity Engine may not have been the best engine, but at least Baldur's Gate II and Icewind Dale actually had combat encounters that could be called difficult, and required something other than a generic formula to beat. 2) The story is downright awful, and for good reason: it's ripped straight out of the D&D2E module. It was intended for a DM to actually spice up what goes into the story, but on it's own, it just fails to deliver. | ||
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Saddened Izzy
United States198 Posts
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 01 2009 03:50 Foucault wrote: After TheYango ripped ToEE a new one I probably won't be playing it but instead go for Icewind Dale II I think. I probably went a bit overboard. I should probably list a few of the good things about it. 1) Skill system - skills are actually implemented well in non-combat encounters (definitely better than Infinity Engine or NWN). It handles them according to the D&D3.5 rules quite well, and aside from the omission of Knowledge skills, basically captures everything relevant. 2) Item crafting - this part is actually neat. Again, using the D&D3.5 rules, but actually makes it MORE useful than in the tabletop game (no one I know actually bothered to get those feats in a tabletop setting-either they'd play a class that got them for free, or they would just take whatever the DM gave them). I just don't like the fact that people always say the combat system of ToEE is good. It isn't. D&D3.5 is a simplistic, and downright imbalanced combat system, and for good reason: people are supposed to be able to work it out by hand. But why would you play a combat encounter that you could entirely work out on paper or in your head? Baldur's Gate and especially Baldur's Gate II bring a massive scale to play (fortress management, and a downright enormous world). Planescape Torment has better writing and character development than most DMs could bring to the table. ToEE is solid in comparison to other computer games, but honestly that doesn't say much. It doesn't make use of the fact that you're playing in front of a computer and not with a DM. On October 01 2009 03:24 Saddened Izzy wrote: Shame your computer is old maybe you have a xbobx360 or ps3 cuz fallout 3 is the shit. And the platinum or game or the year w.e edition has fallout 3 and all the DLC expansions. It's a good 50-300hours of game play if you roam alot. Fallout 3 is ok, but not amazing. The DLCs are definitely not that good compared to the vanilla game. And while it might be 300 hours of "content" a large portion of that's not believable (e.g., you get to the last part of the main story, and you go "oh, the fate of the world as I know it is hanging in the balance, but I'll just wander out a couple miles to the middle of nowhere and perform menial tasks for people that I just met and shouldn't care about"; that gets to be a little unbelievable). Then again, that's sort of a fault I've always found with Bethesda games--they go overboard with the lore and the world development, to the point that if you actually explore it all, you detract from the believability of your own character's scenario. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
Planescape Torment -> best scenario/universe ever. If you liked BG you might like those too. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On October 01 2009 02:10 nofAcedAgent wrote: Unlike that psudeo realtime auto-pause crap like the Infinity engine games. lolilol | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
If you want an old school RPG I recommend picking up Chrono Trigger. I bought it for DS last week, and the game is definitely first rate. My only complaint would be that the additional content for the DS isn't exactly captivating and it's a bit on the short side at only 20 hours. However with 14 different endings you spend a long time playing through it, and probably enjoying it each time too. Oh and get Bioshock. Bioshock and Fallout 3 share the title of most engrossing game world for me. Bioshock's game world is more beautiful and detailed than Fallout 3, however Fallout 3 has more content and places to explore while Bioshock is almost completely linear. They both falter a bit on story in places, but when it comes to presentation both these games are A+. | ||
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geometryb
United States1249 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On October 01 2009 02:34 Misrah wrote: Portal. need i say more? more cake imo. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On October 01 2009 04:43 TheYango wrote: Fallout 3 is ok, but not amazing. The DLCs are definitely not that good compared to the vanilla game. And while it might be 300 hours of "content" a large portion of that's not believable (e.g., you get to the last part of the main story, and you go "oh, the fate of the world as I know it is hanging in the balance, but I'll just wander out a couple miles to the middle of nowhere and perform menial tasks for people that I just met and shouldn't care about"; that gets to be a little unbelievable). Then again, that's sort of a fault I've always found with Bethesda games--they go overboard with the lore and the world development, to the point that if you actually explore it all, you detract from the believability of your own character's scenario. That post reminds me of the guy who posted about how he rushed to get his advanced power armor in fallout 2 and then blamed the developers for making it too easy to get and ruining the game. that wasn't you was it? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 01 2009 09:45 Mindcrime wrote: That post reminds me of the guy who posted about how he rushed to get his advanced power armor in fallout 2 and then blamed the developers for making it too easy to get and ruining the game. that wasn't you was it? I will admit I did that once, but I never complained about that. Doing that in Fallout 2 is very obviously not intended. On top of which, even if I was that guy, ad hominem doesn't advance your argument. My complaint with Fallout 3 is the exact opposite of that, so I don't see how it could remind you of that: you could be doing exactly what feels natural, finishing quests, and taking things as they come, and the game just ends. Rushing the Power Armor in FO2 is a silly complaint because it's fairly obvious that you're not supposed to do it (goes to high level areas involving multiple saves and reloads along the way, etc.). There's NO indication in FO3 that what you do is going to abruptly end the game, and it does. You have to go out of your way if you want to experience any of the real content, and that's what bothers me about it. Quests and exploration should feel natural, it should make sense that your character wants to go do those things, and in Fallout 3, it doesn't. Too much of the world is there "just because". It's Bethesda's development style, and I respect that, but at the same time, I think they got something right in Morrowind that they haven't come back to: their strength is in the exploration of the world, and because of that, their games would feel more natural if they focused on the exploration of the world. Having monumental parts of the main quest feel like they should be your primary focus only detracts from that--in order to explore the world you have to deliberately avoid what would make sense for your character to do, and that takes something away from the experience. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On October 01 2009 04:43 TheYango wrote: (e.g., you get to the last part of the main story, and you go "oh, the fate of the world as I know it is hanging in the balance, but I'll just wander out a couple miles to the middle of nowhere and perform menial tasks for people that I just met and shouldn't care about"; that gets to be a little unbelievable). Then again, that's sort of a fault I've always found with Bethesda games-- sounds to me like you're blaming the developer because you can't stay in character and that makes it similar to the Fallout 2 power armor complaint. For some characters, there is nothing wrong with letting James rot in Vault 112 for a while; he abandoned me and now that I'm out I, like Sam Kinison, want to taste it all. | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On October 01 2009 12:01 TheYango wrote: My complaint with Fallout 3 is the exact opposite of that, so I don't see how it could remind you of that: you could be doing exactly what feels natural, finishing quests, and taking things as they come, and the game just ends. Rushing the Power Armor in FO2 is a silly complaint because it's fairly obvious that you're not supposed to do it (goes to high level areas involving multiple saves and reloads along the way, etc.). There's NO indication in FO3 that what you do is going to abruptly end the game, and it does. You have to go out of your way if you want to experience any of the real content, and that's what bothers me about it. Quests and exploration should feel natural, it should make sense that your character wants to go do those things, and in Fallout 3, it doesn't. Too much of the world is there "just because". You know, when the game abruptly ends on you, is it really that hard to go back to a previous save? Yes, they should have let you save after the ending, but I don't think it's as big a deal as some people make it out to be. But you're right in that the best parts of Fallout 3 are the exploration, and that's where 80% of the games awesome content lie. Still, the main story does have a few awesome parts (vault 112) so it's definitely worth completing if only once. Also, I heard they patched this with the latest DLC. I haven't downloaded any of the DLC yet, but that's still a very much needed fix. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
Planescape: Torment - this game is absolutely brilliant in every way. The story, characters, atmosphere and gameplay. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - one of the best RPG games ever created. KotOR - just avoid part 2, The Sith Lords and avoid playing a dark side character and it's actually a very good game. Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast - this game rules. Just make sure not to set it to the highest difficulty right off the bat or depression will loom over you even during the first part of the game. Dark Stone: Evil Reigns - pretty old but very fun game (if you can find it). Majesty 2: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim - rather repetetive but I like it so far (I have similar rig to you and it works fine) Heroes of Newerth - if you're into DotA | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On October 02 2009 03:37 Manit0u wrote: Planescape: Torment - this game is absolutely brilliant in every way. The story, characters, atmosphere and gameplay. You mean dialogs  | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On October 02 2009 03:37 Manit0u wrote: My recommendations: Planescape: Torment - this game is absolutely brilliant in every way. The story, characters, atmosphere and gameplay. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - one of the best RPG games ever created. KotOR - just avoid part 2, The Sith Lords and avoid playing a dark side character and it's actually a very good game. Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast - this game rules. Just make sure not to set it to the highest difficulty right off the bat or depression will loom over you even during the first part of the game. Dark Stone: Evil Reigns - pretty old but very fun game (if you can find it). Majesty 2: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim - rather repetetive but I like it so far (I have similar rig to you and it works fine) Heroes of Newerth - if you're into DotA Majesty 2 is very addictive until you finish campaign. Afterwards you just put this game away (plus last mission was for me easier than some previous ones, esp. the one with dragon :| ) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2009 00:30 Mindcrime wrote: sounds to me like you're blaming the developer because you can't stay in character and that makes it similar to the Fallout 2 power armor complaint. Uh, it's the exact opposite. In order to explore most of the world you HAVE to go out of character. Because in character the immediacy of what's going on means it makes more sense for you to finish your current preoccupation. At which point the game ends. On October 02 2009 00:30 Mindcrime wrote: For some characters, there is nothing wrong with letting James rot in Vault 112 for a while; he abandoned me and now that I'm out I, like Sam Kinison, want to taste it all. See, that doesn't work for all characters, and you shouldn't have to do that. Plus "tasting it all" is very different from "wandering around the desert for hours because someone told you something cool was out here" (more likely you found it online or heard from a friend something was there). On October 02 2009 02:36 Athos wrote: You know, when the game abruptly ends on you, is it really that hard to go back to a previous save? Yes, they should have let you save after the ending, but I don't think it's as big a deal as some people make it out to be. But you're right in that the best parts of Fallout 3 are the exploration, and that's where 80% of the games awesome content lie. Still, the main story does have a few awesome parts (vault 112) so it's definitely worth completing if only once. Also, I heard they patched this with the latest DLC. I haven't downloaded any of the DLC yet, but that's still a very much needed fix. You missed my complaint. The length and urgency of the main quest just plain doesn't fit everything else out there. If 80% of the content is going to be exploration, then the other 20% should be long enough or take you to enough places that those places that you explore don't feel like you're doing it just to explore. In light of the actual events your character is going through, exploring just for the hell of it makes no sense, particularly without the guarantee that there's anything to find. | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On October 02 2009 06:16 TheYango wrote: You missed my complaint. The length and urgency of the main quest just plain doesn't fit everything else out there. If 80% of the content is going to be exploration, then the other 20% should be long enough or take you to enough places that those places that you explore don't feel like you're doing it just to explore. In light of the actual events your character is going through, exploring just for the hell of it makes no sense, particularly without the guarantee that there's anything to find. Thing is, if you purchase Fallout 3 you should most likely know the majority of the content lies amidst exploration and side quests, and if you buy the game without knowing this, It's unfortunate. But again, there is so much too Fallout 3 that at one point I found myself forgetting about the main quest altogether. I understand where Bethesda is coming from by not making the main quest too long. I even get why didn't make cover you most of the map either. They want you to discover the world for yourself, and I think that this is one of Fallout 3's strengths. You're going to want to find what's out there anyways, so should it really matter if the game doesn't hit you over the head with side quests? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2009 06:40 Athos wrote: Thing is, if you purchase Fallout 3 you should most likely know the majority of the content lies amidst exploration and side quests, and if you buy the game without knowing this, It's unfortunate. But again, there is so much too Fallout 3 that at one point I found myself forgetting about the main quest altogether. I understand where Bethesda is coming from by not making the main quest too long. I even get why didn't make cover you most of the map either. They want you to discover the world for yourself, and I think that this is one of Fallout 3's strengths. You're going to want to find what's out there anyways, so should it really matter if the game doesn't hit you over the head with side quests? Oh I realized that Fallout 3 would be all about the exploration. Having played through all of Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion, I knew full well how a Bethesda game plays out. Maybe it's my expectations from the older Fallout games, or maybe its the fact that the main quest feels more in the foreground of Fallout 3 than in Morrowind or Oblivion. In those games, the main quest was there, but they never felt particularly urgent, so exploring felt more natural. It just felt like at times Fallout 3's main quest made me feel like "I shouldn't be wandering a half hour walk away from the quest, but I am,". | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
Clearly, the Brotherhood and the Enclave, both Eden and Autum's faction, are all kinds of gray. And yet we never get to explore this. I almost wish the FO3 Enclave had been as blatantly evil as the FO2 Enclave. We're shoehorned into being the Brotherhood's bitch. Or, almost as an afterthought, we can side with Eden by simply injecting the modified FEV that, in Broken Steel, has very little effect on the game world. And while there are portions of the main quest that would require the character to be insane to walk away from and remain in character, they are few and far in between in my opinion. And really... so what if the player walks away from the main quest? Pre-geck, that would mean the status quo will continue. If the player walks away post-geck, it means purified water for the wasteland. oh no...? | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3319 Posts
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shavingcream66
United States1219 Posts
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nofAcedAgent
United States952 Posts
On October 01 2009 03:50 Foucault wrote: After TheYango ripped ToEE a new one I probably won't be playing it but instead go for Icewind Dale II I think. Dont let one persons opinion stop you from experiencing the greatest CRPG combat system ever created. TheYango, you did not specify if you played the co8.org modded version or the vanilla (broken) version. As I said Im not a D&D junkie (I just play the PC games) so I dont know the intricasies but I find it hard to belive that a community like Circle of Eight who are mostly 30+ year old D&D players, wouldnt do everything in their power to created a game as close to table top as and CRPG has ever come. And IMO thats exactly what they have done. Could you please name a couple games that surpass TOEE's TBS Combat system? You seem to be aware of better ones, I would like to try them. Also, as far your battle strategies go, I can say a few things. 1 - your battle sequence is pretty much the same as any infinity game (diable,buff,tank,kill - repeat). I dont understand your point. 2 - games of this nature can almost always be exploited to created a super character. This is a role playing game, it is your responsibility to play that ROLE. If you choose to make a uber-godly character, then thats your choice. I dont see this as a flaw in the game, I see it as quite the boon. TOEE is very much a sandbox game. Its a simple dungeon crawl. Make a party and see how long you can survive. Rinse/Repeat. So much fun. 3 - Again, perhaps you need to think outside the box a little bit and try some different strategies. Honestly its not the games fault that you choose to approch every battle in the same manner. Let me just say a thing or two of why I think this game is "close to table top as they come" If your a D&D player, you would probably recognize these terms, if not, Im not gonna explain them. - Ready vs Withdrawl, Ready vs Spell, Spell Counter, Ready Vs Approch, Feint, Withdrawl, Run, Flee, Coup De Grace, Trip Attack, Charge Attack, Fight Defensively, Cast Defensivley, Deal Non-Lethal Damage Five foot step, Full attack, Thrown Weapons, Spell components (certain spells require you to have "ingredients" in your inventory to cast), crafting, and so much more. I could go on and on. These are all really intresting options and they make combat so tactical and diverse. I really dont understand your complaints. I would also like to point out that i am infact a very big fan of the Black Isle games (RIP), but having recenty played through BG1&2 in some epic run through, I just really realised how lacking the combat was. But to each his own I guess, my point is FOCAULT. I hope you at least give this a shot. Its a fantastic game. EDIT: Here is a fantastic write-up of the game: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=23648 Please read this if you want to learn more about the game | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: TheYango, you did not specify if you played the co8.org modded version or the vanilla (broken) version. As I said Im not a D&D junkie (I just play the PC games) so I dont know the intricasies but I find it hard to belive that a community like Circle of Eight who are mostly 30+ year old D&D players, wouldnt do everything in their power to created a game as close to table top as and CRPG has ever come. And IMO thats exactly what they have done. They've done a fine job of modeling the tabletop system. And that's exactly what's bad about it. D&D tabletop is designed to be played with pen, paper, dice, and a DM. With a computer, you lose the DM, and gain the added complexity a computer can handle, but if you migrate the system rule-for-rule, you don't gain anything. The Infinity Engine's combat system was not a faithful translation of D&D. A lot of hardcore fans bashed Baldur's Gate at time of release for it. It still became tremendously popular. You know why? Because it didn't need it. Having a stripped down combat system reduced the focus on combat, which, given the flawed nature of D&D's combat from the beginning, is a good thing. Effectively, ToEE is a game focused on trying to be good at all the things D&D is bad at. It's a good effort, but that's still not a formula for success. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: Could you please name a couple games that surpass TOEE's TBS Combat system? You seem to be aware of better ones, I would like to try them. X-Com UFO Defense, Mount and Blade, some of the old Wizardry games. The former 2 aren't RPGs, but honestly, the plot in ToEE is too thin to redeem it as one. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: 1 - your battle sequence is pretty much the same as any infinity game (diable,buff,tank,kill - repeat). I dont understand your point. There are encounters in which the sequence did not apply. Those encounters were made more numerous with the myriad AI mods. On top of that, BG1/2 and ESPECIALLY Planescape Torment were not as combat-centric as ToEE. ToEE has to ride on it's combat because in terms of world interaction, dialogue, and plot, it fails. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: 2 - games of this nature can almost always be exploited to created a super character. This is a role playing game, it is your responsibility to play that ROLE. If you choose to make a uber-godly character, then thats your choice. I dont see this as a flaw in the game, I see it as quite the boon. TOEE is very much a sandbox game. Its a simple dungeon crawl. Make a party and see how long you can survive. Rinse/Repeat. So much fun. If they wanted to make a good dungeon crawl, then Undermountain or Tomb of Horrors would have been better adventures to make (hell, I would have liked ToEE MUCH more if it had converted Tomb of Horrosr, and used appropriate variant sources like Tome of Battle to deal with the class imbalance). As it stands, the adventure-as-written for ToEE was meant to be somewhat story-driven, which makes it fail without a DM or well-developed characters to drive the plot. The problem with D&D3E from day 1 is that there's no exploiting to do. A cleric or druid need to make no correct decisions to actually have a strong character--all the tools are spoon-fed to them. You could take toughness and skill focus in a ton of random skills you don't have, and your cleric would still be better than your Fighter past level 7. It's one thing for you to exploit a flaw of the system to have an absurdly good character. It's entirely another if your character just *is* better when you hit a certain level. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: 3 - Again, perhaps you need to think outside the box a little bit and try some different strategies. Honestly its not the games fault that you choose to approch every battle in the same manner. It is the game's fault if it's possible for me to do so. A combat-centric game should have the expectation that some effort was spent on designing challenging encounters. Translating the PHB word-for-word into game mechanics is not hard development work, it's a one man job. Beyond that, there's nothing outstanding that ToEE seems to do with the combat mechanics. Add to that the fact that the adventure is also effectively straight-ripped from the sourcebooks, I don't see how you can't have the expectation for them to design interesting combat encounters. It's all that's left for them to do. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: Let me just say a thing or two of why I think this game is "close to table top as they come" If your a D&D player, you would probably recognize these terms, if not, Im not gonna explain them. - Ready vs Withdrawl, Ready vs Spell, Spell Counter, Ready Vs Approch, Feint, Withdrawl, Run, Flee, Coup De Grace, Trip Attack, Charge Attack, Fight Defensively, Cast Defensivley, Deal Non-Lethal Damage Five foot step, Full attack, Thrown Weapons, Spell components (certain spells require you to have "ingredients" in your inventory to cast), crafting, and so much more. Bolded the ones that actually ever get used. Of those, charge is only extensively used with feats/class features in tabletop that make it good (none of which are in ToEE). Defensive casting, full attack, 5-foot-steps, coup de grace, and spell components only create the illusion of choice (e.g. any situation where they're relevant, the choice to use them is obvious). At a table, they create roleplaying variation. At a computer, they're just meaningless busywork. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: I could go on and on. These are all really intresting options and they make combat so tactical and diverse. I really dont understand your complaints. They're effectively null choices, like the Queen's abilities in SC2. Either they're worthless, and having them doesn't actually give you any choice. Or there's absolutely zero reason not to use them in the situations they're relevant. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: I would also like to point out that i am infact a very big fan of the Black Isle games (RIP), but having recenty played through BG1&2 in some epic run through, I just really realised how lacking the combat was. Again, combat is not the focus of BG1&2. They bring enough to the table that a slightly gimped combat system doesn't hurt them. On October 03 2009 08:43 nofAcedAgent wrote: EDIT: Here is a fantastic write-up of the game: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=23648 Please read this if you want to learn more about the game Welcome to the Codex, one of the biggest gaming-related troll pits on the internet. The posting quality in TL Closed Threads is higher than the acceptable post quality there. There are a few good contributors there, but they get absolutely zero respect from anyone. Personally, I find any evaluation from them highly suspect. | ||
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nofAcedAgent
United States952 Posts
Eh you really seem to be mad at the game for your choice in playstyle.. You say only a select of those tactical combat options are actually usefull, but the ones you didnt bold i used all the time. You also seem to be upset that TOEE is on the computer and not actual table top. I dont really get your point. Ready vs Approch - Used very often. Put your lead fighters into this to get a free attack of opportunity when the enemy approches. Very vaulable. Withdrawl - You can escape close range combat without the enemy getting an attack of opportunity. Fighter get too close to your mage? Now you know you can flee without getting one-hit-gibbed. Trip Attack - Trip the enemy to the ground so you are able to perform a Coup De Grace, and hoppefully gib them. Fight Defensivley - Gain Defense bonus while lossing chance to hit. Need your tank to survive longer while the ranged attack finish off the enemy? I could go on for almost all the tactical options. Sure some are more usefull then others. The combat engine is so well done, makes for such dynamic intense battles. Its all up to the players creativity. Its really unfortunate you seem to be locked into a certain playstyle, because your really missing the brilliance of TOEE. And I have to disagree, it is not the games fault that you abuse the system. It was designed that way purposfully. Really, most your complaints are your own making I feel. Pretty simmilar to your thoughts on Fallout3. Your comment about the SC2 Queen is kinda silly, lets not turn this into theorycraft ok? Were talking about games that exist. Anyway, the options are not 'null' in the least. I guess we can agree to disagree man As to your game sugestions they are quite good but I was thinking more along the lines of D&D esque RPG games. Not Sqaud Based Shooters or whatever you would classify M&B as lol. Wizardry, while great absolutley pales in comparison to TOEE combat - seriously. As far as RPGCodex goes, Im not fammilar with the site, and I certainly wasnt aware they were the scum of the internet as you depict. I found a very detailed article about the tactical combat options and I linked it for people who would like to learn more about TOEE. It documents combat well. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On October 03 2009 10:46 TheYango wrote: Again, combat is not the focus of BG1&2. They bring enough to the table that a slightly gimped combat system doesn't hurt them. Well that is odd, i thought bg2 had a ton of combat, especially with the expansion, and with the ascension(?) mod it became a diablo. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Im still not clear wether you spent time playing the co8.org mod. You didnt really clearly say, so its hard to comment on alot of what you say. I have played with co8. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Ready vs Approch - Used very often. Put your lead fighters into this to get a free attack of opportunity when the enemy approches. Very vaulable. Not really. Any round where you'd ready vs. approach you may as well strike first. Not only do you avoid the possibility of them not approaching you, you also force them to use the withdraw action if they want to ignore your fighter. If they're too far to reach (e.g. you can't move + attack in the same round), you're better off spending the round getting off another close- or touch-range buff spell. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Withdrawl - You can escape close range combat without the enemy getting an attack of opportunity. Fighter get too close to your mage? Now you know you can flee without getting one-hit-gibbed. Tumble skill supercedes this, and your wizard can fit cross-class ranks into it. Static DC means that your Wizard will succeed often enough that you shouldn't need to withdraw, once you pass the early levels. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Trip Attack - Trip the enemy to the ground so you are able to perform a Coup De Grace, and hoppefully gib them. Wrong. Trip does not allow Coup de Grace. Coup de Grace only works against enemies that are incapable of responding (unconscious, dying, asleep, etc.)--if it works vs. tripped enemies, it's a bug. Tripping is like charging--only good with relevant feats. The problem is that any enemy that would be worth tripping has much higher strength or dexterity than your fighters, meaning that they won't succeed reliably, because the feats to boost their tripping aren't there. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Fight Defensivley - Gain Defense bonus while lossing chance to hit. Need your tank to survive longer while the ranged attack finish off the enemy? Cool feature--rarely relevant. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: The combat engine is so well done, makes for such dynamic intense battles. I will concede that the engine is good. It's a shame that it couldn't be put to a better rule system. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Its all up to the players creativity. Its really unfortunate you seem to be locked into a certain playstyle, because your really missing the brilliance of TOEE. What brilliance? Even if it was a good game, it wouldn't be "brilliant". There's no brilliance in straight-ripping the 3.5E PHB and a 2E adventure. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: And I have to disagree, it is not the games fault that you abuse the system. It was designed that way purposfully. I highly doubt that taking a straight copy of someone else's ruleset is intentional design more than laziness. And honestly, stop acting like I'm powergaming. I'm not. The whole problem with D&D3.5 is that it takes zero powergaming for spellcasters to be better than fighters. I wouldn't care if you had to take the perfect selection of feats in order for your cleric to win out against your fighter, but you don't. By level 10, spells just are better than feats, regardless of how you're picking them. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Really, most your complaints are your own making I feel. Pretty simmilar to your thoughts on Fallout3. Yes, they are in the same vein: someone playing the game through for the first time should be able to have a complete, natural experience. While these games have plenty of "bonus" content, the first-time-through experience, which is arguably just as important as subsequent playthroughs, is not a fulfilling a experience. A player who plays Fallout 3 for the first time and is just finishing quests as they come will find the game coming to an abrupt end. A player playing ToEE might find the combat options interesting, but will find that the game also comes to an end before any encounters truly necessitate them (particularly if he/she has had any experience with previous isometric RPGs). Will the second playthrough, where the Fallout player gets to explore the world, and the ToEE player gets to make kooky characters centered around different fighting styles be interesting? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that the first playthrough (which makes up the majority of the playtime of the playerbase as a whole) was dry and uninspiring. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: Anyway, the options are not 'null' in the least. They're null in the sense that they're not needed. The non-obvious ones never find situations where they're required of you. On October 03 2009 12:36 nofAcedAgent wrote: As to your game sugestions they are quite good but I was thinking more along the lines of D&D esque RPG games. Not Sqaud Based Shooters or whatever you would classify M&B as lol. Wizardry, while great absolutley pales in comparison to TOEE combat - seriously. The problem is that D&D has become sort of the industry standard for fantasy RPG systems, and it's just a bad system. Class balance is not maintained (fighters are, in a loose sense superfluous after level 7, and reach actual uselessness by about level 10), CR and wealth-by-level create an artificial, uninteresting way of evaluating encounter difficulty, and the amount of useless things in the system with regards to combat just bog things down. In a well-developed roleplaying experience it's fine, but in a game that's as combat-centric as ToEE, I find it inadequate. On October 03 2009 13:08 Cloud wrote: Well that is odd, i thought bg2 had a ton of combat, especially with the expansion, and with the ascension(?) mod it became a diablo. It did, but my point was that there was enough substance in the non-combat stuff that a sub-par combat system was acceptable. It had a decent story, interesting mechanics like fortress management, and well-hashed out NPCs. ToEE has none of that backing up the combat system. | ||
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