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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
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DeathByMonkeys
United States742 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On September 23 2009 01:12 koreasilver wrote: bunker rushes make me cry too, but what can you do. pool first gg | ||
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underscore
252 Posts
I watched a livestream a week ago where the streamer got cheesed hard 4 times by the same player and lost 3-1. Did he complain? No, to him it were 4 games no different than 4 macro games. It was the most beautiful thing I've witnessed. Why can't you be like that? | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On September 23 2009 01:12 koreasilver wrote: bunker rushes make me cry too, but what can you do. Scout? Pool first, be smart. On September 23 2009 01:11 TryThis wrote: i personally love a good ol'2 hatch hydra rush Word my friend, word. | ||
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
As for why people do them: Have you considered that they may be B - A level players that don't wanna waste 15 minutes per game in the D ranks, so instead they choose strats that'll take a lot less time? Not all B players want to spend days playing D rank players | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
You kids must be doing fucking ridiculous strategies or something, because I never get allined. Like 1% of my games are allin. Play safe and scout well. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On September 23 2009 01:06 Auhsoj wrote: I believe not all in I can reach C+/B-/B but all ins at C- has me stuck at D+/C- level lol. Get over yourself. You're basically saying, 'if the game goes the way I want, I win!' | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
edit: i challenge you to post a replay pack, i doubt you will though edit2: the very fact that you said "i'm C+/B-/B" shows how ridiculous a claim this is, do you know how great a variation it is between those three grades? the skill jump is insane. you can't just throw out "oh i'm one of these three ranks" its like someone asking you how old you are and you replying "i'm 20/30/40" | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
If the deal would just give me the cards I want, I'd be super rich. As of now I can barely play rent because of this bullshit. | ||
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nicoaldo
Argentina939 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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KwarK
United States42674 Posts
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StarN
United States2587 Posts
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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
im an idiot for not making bunkers/turrets/whatever i need to defend it. ;p | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
 i really wanted to rip on this guy but the hounds left nothing but jagged bones. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On September 23 2009 01:56 StarN wrote: wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.Yeah, I never get all-ined anymore (mostly in PvZ) because I keep my scouting probe alive long enough. No zerg in their right mind All-Ins against a protoss who knows how to scout well. - 3 hatch speedlings your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris.- 2 hatch muta - 2 hatch hydra bust - 2 hatch lurker drop | ||
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
Also rip into me all u want Im actually very mannered (except to all ins xD) and take constructive critisim well | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Strategy advice if you do keep playing StarCraft, is to analyse your replays and start looking for holes in YOUR gameplay. If you're getting all inned all the time, it's probably because your opponents are seeing weakness and exploiting it. Like Chill always says, play safe and scout properly If you're getting torn to shreds by all-in's, I'd guess you're playing too greedy (which would explain why you think you're so good 'straight up' as well). | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
chill thats a deal | ||
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KwarK
United States42674 Posts
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:28 Auhsoj wrote: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5760108f6bb6319b41446e35a78dc463e04e75f6e8ebb871 These are my last 6 games. I think 1 the guy leaves early, u guys judge. chill thats a deal I get home from work around 8:00 EST. When can you play? Kwark there's not going to be time, sorry. I barely have time to play SC these days but if you ever see me streaming just message me. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On September 23 2009 01:52 Kwark wrote: Allins are generally not blind. They'll scout you out and go "he's weak to X, I'm gonna do X" and then go allin with that. Which is sensible because doing it halfassed would be utterly pointless when they know what they're doing. Nobody in their right mind is going to go "I could kill him with a timing attack now if I make units but if I kill him with a timing attack now I'll still only be on 2 bases when he types gg, I better make a few less units and take a 3rd, just to be safe". That's really, really counter intuitive. These players are better than you and they're killing you because you're a D+ player and not very good at Starcraft. Actually, I'm like the guy, who made this blog. However, your post made me reconsider my play. Thanks.  | ||
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:31 Chill wrote: I get home from work around 8:00 EST. When can you play? Kwark there's not going to be time, sorry. I barely have time to play SC these days but if you ever see me streaming just message me. I should be on at 8pm (my class is 3:30-6:30pm est) | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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StarN
United States2587 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote: wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris. if I see that he's getting speed I'll immediately throw out a second probe and hide it somewhere in the map. and if it's a map like destination where you can easily find out where his 3rd is, I'll try to catch if he made a 3rd hatch somewhere. If he's staying on 2 bases then you can be pretty certain he's going an all-in of some sort, although they could just be doing some weird build order (in PvZ). I'll usually play a safe defensive game, since if the zerg doesn't do damage with any of the above build orders you mentioned, then he won't be able to keep up economically into the mid-late game. | ||
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote: wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris. you send out a second probe while your 1st probe is busy running around in the zergs base to a hidden location, then sneak it into his base again after his lings are away at a good time to see what hes up to. Also -3hatch speedlings you did see a 3rd hatch going down and when your 2nd probe goes in you see alot of lings..:p I hardly ever see this anymore though, i guess because wallins are better now -2hatch muta u notice his gas timing and if he makes a 3rd hatchery or not..if he starts mining gas again right away and does not make a third hatch...hm.. -2 hatch hydra bust same thing xcept that he will have a hydralisk den + a few hydras when your 2nd probe runs into his base -2hatch lurker drop pretty much the same thing as 2hatch muta, you counter it in almost the same way as well Basically if you see a 3rd hatch going down you will not have to worry about anything threatening your main base until after you have scouted with your 1st corsair or zlot rush. Your wallin may need a few additional cannons though if he does 3hatch ling or hydra break, which you find out with your 2nd probe. If he did 2hatch, your 2nd probe will see the difference so if its lair tech u need 2 cannons in your main + corsairs building and 3cannons at your nat. add another in your main and another in your nat after your corsair finishes as money permits. This will prevent any kind of mutalisk attack killing your main, or allin muta/ling attack killing your nat. (assuming you have zlots at your nat to help out as well) A 2hatch lurker build is defended pretty much the same way, with slightly different cannon placement, and a followup of robotics instead of citadel. Sair/reaver is the most effective build against zerg cheesey play because it gives u corsairs w/ 1+(rapes mutalisks, good scouting, can intercept drops) reavers (good at defence sitting behind cannons) and obs (nullifies lurker drops w/ the reavers.) 2hatch hydralisk is defended by making 1000 cannons at your nat and teching to templars. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Of course going pool first will negate a bunker rush, but you're seriously not going to pool first every single time you ZvT, and even if you do scout a bunker rush sometimes it kills you. It happens. On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote: wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris. ![[image loading]](http://passionweiss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ludacris9.jpg) | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + chill vs combat-x reincarnate? | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
59-98 D+ ..................and you think you could get B? | ||
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CommanderFluffy
Taiwan1059 Posts
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:49 FyRe_DragOn wrote: you send out a second probe while your 1st probe is busy running around in the zergs base to a hidden location, then sneak it into his base again after his lings are away at a good time to see what hes up to. Also -3hatch speedlings you did see a 3rd hatch going down and when your 2nd probe goes in you see alot of lings..:p I hardly ever see this anymore though, i guess because wallins are better now -2hatch muta u notice his gas timing and if he makes a 3rd hatchery or not..if he starts mining gas again right away and does not make a third hatch...hm.. -2 hatch hydra bust same thing xcept that he will have a hydralisk den + a few hydras when your 2nd probe runs into his base -2hatch lurker drop pretty much the same thing as 2hatch muta, you counter it in almost the same way as well Basically if you see a 3rd hatch going down you will not have to worry about anything threatening your main base until after you have scouted with your 1st corsair or zlot rush. Your wallin may need a few additional cannons though if he does 3hatch ling or hydra break, which you find out with your 2nd probe. If he did 2hatch, your 2nd probe will see the difference so if its lair tech u need 2 cannons in your main + corsairs building and 3cannons at your nat. add another in your main and another in your nat after your corsair finishes as money permits. This will prevent any kind of mutalisk attack killing your main, or allin muta/ling attack killing your nat. (assuming you have zlots at your nat to help out as well) A 2hatch lurker build is defended pretty much the same way, with slightly different cannon placement, and a followup of robotics instead of citadel. Sair/reaver is the most effective build against zerg cheesey play because it gives u corsairs w/ 1+(rapes mutalisks, good scouting, can intercept drops) reavers (good at defence sitting behind cannons) and obs (nullifies lurker drops w/ the reavers.) 2hatch hydralisk is defended by making 1000 cannons at your nat and teching to templars. A good player isn't going to let a second scouting probe in, thanks for the advice though. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:49 StarN wrote: if I see that he's getting speed I'll immediately throw out a second probe and hide it somewhere in the map. and if it's a map like destination where you can easily find out where his 3rd is, I'll try to catch if he made a 3rd hatch somewhere. If he's staying on 2 bases then you can be pretty certain he's going an all-in of some sort, although they could just be doing some weird build order (in PvZ). I'll usually play a safe defensive game, since if the zerg doesn't do damage with any of the above build orders you mentioned, then he won't be able to keep up economically into the mid-late game. What level of Zergs are you playing that they don't look for the hidden probe? Even the guide on TL tells nooby Zergs to make sure they do that. There's literally no point in a Zerg getting speed if he's not going to prevent scouting. You can't just say scouting is easy against really bad players... Everything is really easy against really bad players... The counter against a good Zerg player is to get the minimum defences you'll need against an all-in, and deal with the mid-game (if you didn't get minimum defences against all-ins, and the Zerg doesn't all-in you'll win basically every game because that puts you so freaking ahead, so don't act like it's some huge disadvantage to get adequate defences...) Really... Zerg all-ins are just reactionary to a trend of cheapskate Toss players | ||
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Rice
United States1332 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On September 23 2009 02:33 Auhsoj wrote: I should be on at 8pm (my class is 3:30-6:30pm est) I'll be in op irc on iccup using the accouns SmellsLikeFire around 8 then. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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Gyabo
United States329 Posts
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Rayzorblade
United States1172 Posts
On September 23 2009 03:03 KrAzYfoOL wrote: http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/Yes.BM.html 59-98 D+ ..................and you think you could get B? wow, epic rape. | ||
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
of course u leave out the 31-13 C at the end of last season.... Chill I will be there as Yes.BM. | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On September 23 2009 03:52 Auhsoj wrote: of course u leave out the 31-13 C at the end of last season.... Chill I will be there as Yes.BM. Have you lost a hand since last season? | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Yeah, not to add onto it, but it doesn't look like you really even belong at the C- level... of all the C- players you faced (20), you only won 2 matches. You seem pretty manner so far so not trying to discourage you and venting is fine and dandy, but you could definitely be more humble about it and not overestimate yourself so much. | ||
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
Actually I slightly fractured my wrist but it doesnt effect my game ( so I think ). I just enjoy playing games that arent all in oriented. Hopefully this bo7 can redeem myself or show me that i shouldnt be saying shit like im that high of a level. This will prove to me what I am as to iCCup ranks non-all in vrs all in. Either shuts me up or gives me something to brag about. Lookin forward to it. | ||
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gumbum8
United States721 Posts
On September 23 2009 03:15 Chill wrote: I'll be in op irc on iccup using the accouns SmellsLikeFire around 8 then. I'm bored and I'm on from 8-10 EST if he skimps I WANNA BE B 2 but damn zvz | ||
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sYz-Adrenaline
United States1850 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3323 Posts
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
On September 23 2009 03:10 Nick_54 wrote: A good player isn't going to let a second scouting probe in, thanks for the advice though. then send a zlot to harass one way and your scouting probe another. I have managed to scout plenty of B/B+ players this way although i dont know if you consider that good. I admit trying to scout vs an A rank zerg w/ speed would be extremely hard, but not impossible, but the main idea is to keep sending probes/zlots to keep him running around his base(s) as long as possible and prevent yourself from getting ling contained. | ||
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Etherone
United States1898 Posts
On September 23 2009 05:15 Yaqoob wrote: I am glad that I will now have some entertainment in a couple of hours. Thanks Chill this is going to be so great, chill should commentate while he plays. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On September 23 2009 04:06 Auhsoj wrote: I can post a rep pack of all my matches at C- im sure 70-90% are all ins xD. But that doesn't make my statement any less correct, you don't even belong at the C- level. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
People will cheese you on ladder, clanwars, everything. I don't usually get upset when a fellow teammate will cheese me in a practice match, because that's just part of the game. If you don't constantly think about the factor of all-ins, you will fall behind when it comes time to actually use the skills you think you have. I hope that made sense, didn't really make that much sense coming out of my brain, just kind of free-balled it. tl;dr stop crying faget | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
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DivinO
United States4796 Posts
If not, then contact DinOt and have him teach you how. :D | ||
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geegee1
United States618 Posts
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On September 23 2009 08:07 LuisMl8 wrote: ok, but in PvT we are suppose to be scouting at 9pylon? there are many Terran that does BBS + 8scv drill and when you have 3 goon, Surprise!! GG Many Terran? In fact, I don't recall that happening to me.. ever.. on iCCup as Protoss. And I don't really see how you wouldnt be able to scout that by the time you have 3 fucking goons. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Auhsoj
United States109 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
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geegee1
United States618 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
The problem is that you're trying to define skill level to only include games you define as "standard." The thing is, a huge part of skill is experience and game sense - knowing how to react to every dumb strategy people throw at you - something you clearly lack. You know how many legitimate B players lose consistently to all-ins by D players? I can't think of any. As much as I commiserate with you - as much as I hate all-ins, they're a part of the game. Progamers do them all the time. They're something you have to learn to deal with. So, in short, your current rank is your correct rank. By the way, there's no way you can extrapolate 31-13 C to be a solid B rank, much less <50% D+. Once you hit B+, NOT B, with or without cheese, ONLY THEN can you call yourself B rank. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On September 23 2009 08:07 LuisMl8 wrote: ok, but in PvT we are suppose to be scouting at 9pylon? there are many Terran that does BBS + 8scv drill and when you have 3 goon, Surprise!! GG the problem isnt the cheese it's that you're going 9 pylon oh On September 23 2009 09:29 Harem wrote: First two games were so hilarious. skill level based on those games? What happened, so curious. Also just based on his iccup record im sure the C he got last season was from noobie bashing or something. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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KwarK
United States42674 Posts
Given he can't scout and he can't wall I really cannot blame people for allining. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
Score? | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28665 Posts
although i hate playing the people who are really good at both, like dinot, where you dont know whether hes gonna zergling allin, hydra allin, 2 hatch muta or power after starting with 9pool speed and to some degree you're just forced to guess but as for just playing iccup ladder, I generally prefer playing opponents who try some sort of "allin" cause well you just gotta defend I also feel the term allin is way overused tho, a lot of people seem to regard for example 12 ling runby as allin when it's not even remotely close.. | ||
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KwarK
United States42674 Posts
Chill's loss was because I kept egging him on to properly allin, drones and all. My bad. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On September 23 2009 10:29 Kwark wrote: 4-1 Chill's loss was because I kept egging him on to properly allin, drones and all. My bad. I thought it was a bo7 ' - 'a or are they just playing all seven games? | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On September 23 2009 10:14 Divinek wrote: the problem isnt the cheese it's that you're going 9 pylon oh skill level based on those games? What happened, so curious. Also just based on his iccup record im sure the C he got last season was from noobie bashing or something. one of the games on collo, Chill went 5pool into mass sunk push in the P's main. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
On September 23 2009 10:32 Valentine wrote: I thought it was a bo7 ' - 'a or are they just playing all seven games? Bo7 = First to 4 wins | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
Thanks for that, I was oblivious to this fact! + Show Spoiler + I was still watching a game being streamed as I wrote that. | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3323 Posts
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
The gap from C- to B- is amazingly huge and if you really were B- straight on, you would have the skill to scout and fend off an all-in. I'm feeling the D+ to C- gap already and I dare not say that I'm C- straight on games. How much more C- to B-. | ||
zatic
Zurich15328 Posts
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HiOT
Sweden1000 Posts
Edit : Wrong dude! | ||
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
And it's pretty goddamn stupid to say that no zerg all-ins vs a "good" protoss, yea I guess Julyzerg and any people who play like him are playing total fuckin noob tosses | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On September 23 2009 20:01 NoobsOfWrath wrote: Everyone on TL gets malicious satisfaction out of empirically putting down noobs You missed the key component, which was noobs who baselessly talk themselves up. If you saw the games there was a huge skill disparity between us, and I am B-, and he's claiming to be able to reach B, when he has a ~40% win percentage at C-. I don't have VODs I don't think, unless the magically recorded on my mogulus. Here's the reps: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0761_SmelZ_YesBP_DuplP_KhaT.rep http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0762_SmellsZ_YesBMP_DuplicT.rep http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0763_SmelZ_YesBP_DuplZ_mGPP.rep http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0764_YesBMP_SmellsZ_DuplicZ.rep http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0765_SmellsZ_YesBMP_DuplicT.rep http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/allins/0766_YesBMP_aCtpTyT_SmellsZ.rep | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Game 2 Heartbreak Ridge: Pretty much the exact same as the first game. Chill goes overpoolspeed, sends his 7th drone to mine out the backdoor, except this time the guy doesn't bother to check the backdoor, and his scouting probe just went to the nat to chill to block what he assumed would be an overpool expand, but the probe never saw the gas go up -_-. He then proceeds to make another abysmal wall with the cannons just out to bare, blocks with like three probes or something. Chill then makes a proxy hatch up on the choke ledge in the Protoss base and just runs his speedlings through the backdoor. Guy taps out. Game 3 Colosseum: Chill 5pools, and they both scout each other on the first try. Guy immediately makes 2 cannons in his minline, but Chill starts sunk rushing him while double expanding. The other guy tries to break through with zealots a couple of times but it's futile. He gives up after a few minutes. Game 4 Colosseum: Chill goes 9poolspeed (I think it was) vs 2gate. After a bit of a scuffle where both players lose their initial army, Chill gets a few probes, the Protoss gets a forge, then a core. Chill goes 2hatch muta. Chill kills a scout, a sair, and like two dragoons, but he loses 4-5 mutas, but then the other guy suddenly thought it would be a good idea to ram all of his zealots into 4 sunks with 2 extra sunks on the cliff. He loses all of his zealots and manages to kill one sunken. A bit later Chill drone drills with almost all of his drones and fucks up. The other guy just macros up and kills Chill a few minutes later. Game 5 Medusa: Chill goes 9pool into 4hatch lair -> hydra den. He gets lurkers early and spits at the backdoor temples. The other guy goes 2stargate, then throws down a robotics, so he tries to go sair reaver. When he scouts the lurkers hurling spines at the temples, he throws down SEVEN cannons. Chill tries to go up the backdoor ramp with a couple of hydras but when he realizes there's way too many cannons he just backs out. At this point the other guy puts down three more cannons at his front choke, but Chill just picks up his lurkerhydra force with his ovies and drops them in the Protoss main, killing everything inside. The corsairs do kill every single overlord on the map shortly after though, to his credit, except everything else went wrong so it didn't really matter. There was one reaver guarding the nat nexus, but a couple of hydras just ran in, sniped it, then ran his lurkers in and killed almost all his probes. The Protoss tries to harass with reavers but he only gets a couple of drones and gets shooed away by hydras. He also tries to take a secret expo. A bit later Chill breaks his nat and he taps out. | ||
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