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Active: 732 users

TLnet Poll - What do you think recent European success aga…

What do you think recent European success against Korean players? :

It's a fluke. Koreans will dominate again. (4074)52%
It's a sign that Europeans really have improved. (3005)38%
Don't know/no opinion. (807)10%

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
March 27 2014 08:06 GMT
#1
I wonder if it's EU improving or the 'local' Koreans struggling more without the same support they had before. (Or how much of each?)
horbo
Profile Joined March 2014
Germany1 Post
March 27 2014 09:38 GMT
#2
@y0su, i tend to agree. also it think the question might be broke, isn't there an "of" missing?
DarkstarTV
Profile Joined December 2013
Sweden7 Posts
March 27 2014 09:46 GMT
#3
It's interesting really, I believe it's due to the fact that every tournament you sign up for in EU there is at least 3 Koreans in the bracket. Usually in form of Solar, Revenge Golden, Jjakji or Stardust. A lot of Europeans are getting used to the monsters that is Koreans flocking the ladder and the tournaments. Even though it's not any direct training it's still foreigners getting a chance to play against Koreans regularly.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
March 27 2014 10:05 GMT
#4
It's just the local koreans getting a bit worse without top tier practice partners/regime/team houses and the EU guys getting plenty of practice against them on ladder. It'll be back to getting spanked once the EUers hit proleague Koreans.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Maegi
Profile Joined January 2013
Finland174 Posts
March 27 2014 10:22 GMT
#5
lol upsets vs shit tier koreans that ran away from korea.
NaNiwa <3
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
March 27 2014 11:17 GMT
#6
I wouldn't read much into it really.
Kompicek
Profile Joined May 2008
Czech Republic245 Posts
March 27 2014 12:40 GMT
#7
ITs pretty easy actually. Its because we are talking mostly about "european koreans" which play has diminished. If this happens against the kespa powerhouses: Zest, Rain etc. then I will start to believe. Europeans havent improved. IFrom the level of play @proleage i would rather say that the gap is widening, not the other way.
11cc
Profile Joined May 2008
Finland561 Posts
March 27 2014 12:56 GMT
#8
On March 27 2014 19:22 Maegi wrote:
lol upsets vs shit tier koreans that ran away from korea.

It's still a sign of improvement.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-27 17:12:26
March 27 2014 17:01 GMT
#9
The lack of practice houses has cost these koreans dearly.
Innovation and Dear would know.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
yido
Profile Joined March 2014
United States350 Posts
March 27 2014 17:39 GMT
#10
We have seen this from Koreans, living outside of Korea.
Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world.
MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents.

Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently.
But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not.
gl hf
di4m0nd
Profile Joined June 2010
United States297 Posts
March 27 2014 20:11 GMT
#11
On March 28 2014 02:39 yido wrote:
We have seen this from Koreans, living outside of Korea.
Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world.
MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents.

Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently.
But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not.


I believe this guy would like a word with you :D

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Polt
TLO | MC | Taeja | MarineKing | Alicia | HerO | PartinG | Bomber | Genius | MMA | CoCa | HuK | DRG | YugiOh | MVP | Jjakji | Stardust | Snute | Scarlett
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-27 22:09:32
March 27 2014 22:03 GMT
#12
Hmm, by recent successes I believe we're talking about Welmu, Snute, and Vortix mainly (2/3 of these guys were already pretty established. Unless you were one of those patchzerg believers...). As well as some miscellaneous wins here and there in WCS EU, Seatstory Cup, ASUS ROG, and at various events online.

I'll start with the positive. Perhaps, the 3 I named in particular have improved and will go on to ascend to what Naniwa and Scarlett were in 2013, or what Stephano was in his prime. Truly legit guys that probably could crack code S if they worked at it and stayed in Korea.

Now the negative, maybe it's just the Koreans they're mainly playing against lately have stagnated. MC, Jjakji, Mvp, MMA, San, Jaedong, Leenock etc can all still be really good when they want to but are not exactly what I consider top-tier atm. In addition, most of them are already pretty accomplished and likely less hungry than someone like, say, Zest who still eagerly yearns for his first big win.

All in all, I'm looking at the overall scene and that makes me lean more towards fluke, and wondering why this is even a poll. This is nothing substantial even after the advent of WCS that increases the encounters between EU and Koreans. We've always had a few really good foreigners who likely could go toe to toe with the best on a good day. Yet, the majority of the time Koreans own face. We're just coming off a year where Koreans won every premiere event ffs (granted Scarlett came pretty damn close at the last minute against Jaedong. Canadian though :p).

Also, what about WCS AM? There's some upsets there as well. It's not just EU lately, it should really be foreigners in general if we're going to do this kind of poll.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Greendotz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2053 Posts
March 27 2014 22:42 GMT
#13
To be fair didn't this kind of thing happen last year? Koreans really struggled in the RO32, there were a few surprise knockouts and even in the RO16 (Lan event, so no lag excuses) they continued to struggle, with some qualifying second in each group. However when it came down to the RO8 it was always the same, foreigners got stomped, and stomped pretty hard. Don't get me wrong, this current season has been an impressive performance by the foreigners and I do think they have improved. But until one actually comes 1st in WCS EU (or at least puts up a damn impressive 2nd place performance) then that'll really impress me.
for_the_swarm
Profile Joined September 2013
United States48 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-28 01:21:57
March 28 2014 01:16 GMT
#14
although i think europeans are improving, its not a fair comparison. youre comparing the top foreigners to 2nd-tier koreans. Most of the koreans outside korea would not make Code S or even Code A IMO, except mayb taeja when hes healthy. Even innovation and flash dropped to Code B. the gap between top foreigners and top koreans (code S) is still big
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
March 28 2014 02:19 GMT
#15
So they beat some Koreans ... if they played in KR and not EU they would not make it out of groups.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
March 28 2014 12:44 GMT
#16
On March 28 2014 11:19 jax1492 wrote:
So they beat some Koreans ... if they played in KR and not EU they would not make it out of groups.


How's WCS AM doing?
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19234 Posts
March 28 2014 17:14 GMT
#17
Europeans got better and the Korean Pro pool in WCS EU is worse.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
March 28 2014 17:43 GMT
#18
Don't know. No idea what games these are referring to but it will be too small a sample size to be significant at all
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
March 28 2014 18:29 GMT
#19
Europeans have definitely improved, but they're still going to get dominated by Koreans playing in the other WCS regions. Wish I could vote for both
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
damoonwolf
Profile Joined November 2013
France98 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-29 09:58:52
March 28 2014 18:30 GMT
#20
Many of these victory is in ZvT and zerg are just crush Terran in GSL qualifier. I thinks is more a question of this MU than a question of foreigner and korean.

This is not a balance whine, just an observation of the recents results.
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