It's interesting really, I believe it's due to the fact that every tournament you sign up for in EU there is at least 3 Koreans in the bracket. Usually in form of Solar, Revenge Golden, Jjakji or Stardust. A lot of Europeans are getting used to the monsters that is Koreans flocking the ladder and the tournaments. Even though it's not any direct training it's still foreigners getting a chance to play against Koreans regularly.

Scarecrow

Korea (South)9172 Posts

March 27 2014 10:05 GMT

It's just the local koreans getting a bit worse without top tier practice partners/regime/team houses and the EU guys getting plenty of practice against them on ladder. It'll be back to getting spanked once the EUers hit proleague Koreans.

Maegi

Finland174 Posts

March 27 2014 10:22 GMT

lol upsets vs shit tier koreans that ran away from korea.

StarStruck

25339 Posts

March 27 2014 11:17 GMT

I wouldn't read much into it really.

Kompicek

Czech Republic245 Posts

March 27 2014 12:40 GMT

ITs pretty easy actually. Its because we are talking mostly about "european koreans" which play has diminished. If this happens against the kespa powerhouses: Zest, Rain etc. then I will start to believe. Europeans havent improved. IFrom the level of play @proleage i would rather say that the gap is widening, not the other way.

11cc

Finland561 Posts

March 27 2014 12:56 GMT

On March 27 2014 19:22 Maegi wrote:
lol upsets vs shit tier koreans that ran away from korea.

It's still a sign of improvement.

Morbidius

Brazil3449 Posts

March 27 2014 17:01 GMT

The lack of practice houses has cost these koreans dearly.
Innovation and Dear would know.

yido

United States350 Posts

March 27 2014 17:39 GMT

#10

We have seen this from Koreans, living outside of Korea.
Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world.
MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents.

Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently.
But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not.

di4m0nd

United States297 Posts

March 27 2014 20:11 GMT

#11

On March 28 2014 02:39 yido wrote:
We have seen this from Koreans, living outside of Korea.
Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world.
MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents.

Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently.
But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not.

I believe this guy would like a word with you :D

+ Show Spoiler +

Polt

FrostedMiniWheats

United States30730 Posts

March 27 2014 22:03 GMT

#12

Hmm, by recent successes I believe we're talking about Welmu, Snute, and Vortix mainly (2/3 of these guys were already pretty established. Unless you were one of those patchzerg believers...). As well as some miscellaneous wins here and there in WCS EU, Seatstory Cup, ASUS ROG, and at various events online.

I'll start with the positive. Perhaps, the 3 I named in particular have improved and will go on to ascend to what Naniwa and Scarlett were in 2013, or what Stephano was in his prime. Truly legit guys that probably could crack code S if they worked at it and stayed in Korea.

Now the negative, maybe it's just the Koreans they're mainly playing against lately have stagnated. MC, Jjakji, Mvp, MMA, San, Jaedong, Leenock etc can all still be really good when they want to but are not exactly what I consider top-tier atm. In addition, most of them are already pretty accomplished and likely less hungry than someone like, say, Zest who still eagerly yearns for his first big win.

All in all, I'm looking at the overall scene and that makes me lean more towards fluke, and wondering why this is even a poll. This is nothing substantial even after the advent of WCS that increases the encounters between EU and Koreans. We've always had a few really good foreigners who likely could go toe to toe with the best on a good day. Yet, the majority of the time Koreans own face. We're just coming off a year where Koreans won every premiere event ffs (granted Scarlett came pretty damn close at the last minute against Jaedong. Canadian though :p).

Also, what about WCS AM? There's some upsets there as well. It's not just EU lately, it should really be foreigners in general if we're going to do this kind of poll.

Greendotz

United Kingdom2053 Posts

March 27 2014 22:42 GMT

#13

To be fair didn't this kind of thing happen last year? Koreans really struggled in the RO32, there were a few surprise knockouts and even in the RO16 (Lan event, so no lag excuses) they continued to struggle, with some qualifying second in each group. However when it came down to the RO8 it was always the same, foreigners got stomped, and stomped pretty hard. Don't get me wrong, this current season has been an impressive performance by the foreigners and I do think they have improved. But until one actually comes 1st in WCS EU (or at least puts up a damn impressive 2nd place performance) then that'll really impress me.

for_the_swarm

United States48 Posts

March 28 2014 01:16 GMT

#14

although i think europeans are improving, its not a fair comparison. youre comparing the top foreigners to 2nd-tier koreans. Most of the koreans outside korea would not make Code S or even Code A IMO, except mayb taeja when hes healthy. Even innovation and flash dropped to Code B. the gap between top foreigners and top koreans (code S) is still big

jax1492

United States1632 Posts

March 28 2014 02:19 GMT

#15

So they beat some Koreans ... if they played in KR and not EU they would not make it out of groups.

boxerfred

Germany8360 Posts

March 28 2014 12:44 GMT

#16

On March 28 2014 11:19 jax1492 wrote:
So they beat some Koreans ... if they played in KR and not EU they would not make it out of groups.

How's WCS AM doing?

BisuDagger

Bisutopia19300 Posts

March 28 2014 17:14 GMT

#17

Europeans got better and the Korean Pro pool in WCS EU is worse.

sixfour

England11061 Posts

March 28 2014 17:43 GMT

#18

Don't know. No idea what games these are referring to but it will be too small a sample size to be significant at all

DavoS

United States4605 Posts

March 28 2014 18:29 GMT

#19

Europeans have definitely improved, but they're still going to get dominated by Koreans playing in the other WCS regions. Wish I could vote for both

damoonwolf

France98 Posts

March 28 2014 18:30 GMT

#20

Many of these victory is in ZvT and zerg are just crush Terran in GSL qualifier. I thinks is more a question of this MU than a question of foreigner and korean.

This is not a balance whine, just an observation of the recents results.

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