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RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6208 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-01 07:03:18
September 30 2017 19:06 GMT
#1661
Edited my post. Was out of line there. Drunk post ^^.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
September 30 2017 20:25 GMT
#1662
can we ban RiK and danglars already? they're shitposting and horrible behavior and attitudes are endlessly tiresome; and their nonsense, and constant refusal to deal with reality means they should not be allowed in any discussion, as they deny facts themselves.
we all know the thread is better off without them.

User was temp banned for this post.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 02 2017 00:02 GMT
#1663
Moving forward, I hope folks don't come into this thread asking for someone to get warned, banned, whatever. If you believe the thread is going in the wrong direction, you can make a quick note in here and leave it be. We'll take a look at it but anyone who backseats moderates will be actioned.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 00:07:25
October 02 2017 00:06 GMT
#1664
What procedure would you prefer for reporting someone who cannot be reported? PM one of you? Or post it here?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 02 2017 00:11 GMT
#1665
I would say pm us if it's that bad. We keep an eye on this thread constantly and always have internal discussions about the best possible course of action etc... so even if it looks like things aren't being done, you can rest assured that they are some to some degree.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 02 2017 02:31 GMT
#1666
Forgive me if this comes off as ever so slightly rude, but "confidential things are being done behind the scenes" is kind of a flimsy way to try to deflect criticism. "Stuff is being done" plus no change looks ever so slightly like nothing. There was even a Dilbert comic about that just a week ago.

And that's not to say that I think nothing is being done as much as to say that you ought to communicate more. Some issues do seem to eventually get addressed but a lot of issues seem to go on and on without any acknowledgement whatsoever. Of course, whatever happens we all just have to accept it or walk away since that is the way things work around here. But frankly, what's the point of moderation if it's not clear if they are a net benefit, a net loss, or neither to the discussion?

Obviously some things are rightfully kept confidential, but secrecy for the sake of secrecy is not a virtue. And if you want anyone to actually buy the line of "just report and just PM where there's a problem and trust that things will be looked at" then you ought to show that it's not just empty words. Or else why would anyone bother?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 14:14:44
October 02 2017 14:13 GMT
#1667
It's much like you said. If it looks like there's no change, it makes it seems like "confidential things are being done behind the scenes" is used to deflect criticism. Problem is that much like you also stated, this is stuff that I can't share with the community. Aka, I can't communicate beyond what has already been posted because this is a staff matter. It's not secrecy for the sake of secrecy. Staff matters are always confidential. If there's something that I communicate, I would've done it already.

Unfortunately, I can't do much more aside from bringing the issue up internally and starting a discussion on it. It's your call whether you want to point it out to us or not but yes, I understand your concerns overall and not trying to dismiss them.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
October 02 2017 14:43 GMT
#1668
Seriously, the problem there is that we know have a bunch of adults occupying a space where the ethos has been set while most of those were kids, or by other kids who are no longer around, but the way things work hasn't really evolved along with the population, or at least hasn't evolved in a reasonable direction. That's why you have people being super important about someone being "staff", because when we were kids, this was a point of huge social status and not a completely inconsequential setting in a forum engine. The whole talk about "staff matters are always confidential" is a great proof of this problem.

The "staff" should really take a step back, look at how ridiculous they are in behaving like this and then come back and realize that protecting someone who is being an ass just because he is "staff" on a gaming forum with a couple of hundred of active users, isn't probably something worthy their attention.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5576 Posts
October 02 2017 17:07 GMT
#1669
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=8895#177886

Same thing again. Nobody else gets to contribute like this. xDaunt affair was just as secret?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 17:22:59
October 02 2017 17:10 GMT
#1670
contributions to that affect are not rare, and you’ve selected poorly. the post earned no further reply.

at least pick the ones worthy of complaint. you’re just zlefining.
hey speaking of, welcome back buddy.

are bans lifted in real time/to the minute? ie will he be unbanned in like three hrs from now? or is it more of a batch thing?
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5576 Posts
October 02 2017 17:29 GMT
#1671
No, I really believe two and three letter posts are terrible. Of course it's a dead end for the thread, how can anyone answer those or do anything with them but ignore them? That's not good. I wouldn't want to see other people doing the same thing either, could you show those other posts to elucidate the problem?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 17:54:43
October 02 2017 17:40 GMT
#1672
i could, but i’m not here to complain about the posting standards of users, this was just mentioned as a no-go a few posts prior. but your example is a very clear garbage in, garbage out. and that kind of garbage is rife in the whole thread on both sides, so to pretend this particular example is exceptional is disingenuous.

eh, maybe rife is the wrong word. certainly the majority of posts are super quality. but the point still stands regardless, i think.

edit: sorry, don’t think i got the message right the first time around.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 02 2017 21:45 GMT
#1673
On October 03 2017 02:10 brian wrote:
contributions to that affect are not rare, and you’ve selected poorly. the post earned no further reply.

at least pick the ones worthy of complaint. you’re just zlefining.
hey speaking of, welcome back buddy.

are bans lifted in real time/to the minute? ie will he be unbanned in like three hrs from now? or is it more of a batch thing?

they're lifted real-time; they're not run by people, it's run by the software timer that runs the site.

and it does show that they ignore violations of their own stated rules; and ones for which others have been actioned in the past.

that's the blue wall in action for ya.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
October 02 2017 22:39 GMT
#1674
one way or the other, nice to have you back
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 02 2017 22:42 GMT
#1675
Which stated rules was it this time, zlefin? It really looked like a straightforward administration of the rule on backseat moderating.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 01:03:05
October 03 2017 00:45 GMT
#1676
edit: never mind, brian already more or less covered what I was going to say.
On October 03 2017 07:42 Danglars wrote:
Which stated rules was it this time, zlefin? It really looked like a straightforward administration of the rule on backseat moderating.

i'm pretty sure he's referring to the linked posts made by Kwark and/or RiK.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 01:06:34
October 03 2017 01:06 GMT
#1677
Seeing LD moderation referred to as a blue wall is such hyperbole. I really don't think kwark is out gunning down handcuffed people on the streets lol
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 15:22:24
October 03 2017 15:21 GMT
#1678
On October 03 2017 02:40 brian wrote:
i could, but i’m not here to complain about the posting standards of users, this was just mentioned as a no-go a few posts prior. but your example is a very clear garbage in, garbage out. and that kind of garbage is rife in the whole thread on both sides, so to pretend this particular example is exceptional is disingenuous.

eh, maybe rife is the wrong word. certainly the majority of posts are super quality. but the point still stands regardless, i think.

edit: sorry, don’t think i got the message right the first time around.

Well brain, while I think I get your point of "a shitpost for a shitpost" being your justification for that being not so bad, I might have to ask: is that the precedent that you really want to set? That if someone else is shitty then it's ok for everyone else to be? What about incorrectly perceived shit like the last tirade zlefin had when he got warned for responding to a "shitpost" from you?

I agree that that one post isn't anything special. But is that really the methodology you want to use to justify it? That there are other, vaguely specified, shitty posts to pay attention to so any one instance needs to be ignored? An instance here, an instance there and pretty soon you're talking mounds of manure. And if it's already a pile of shit, why not shit out a little more on top?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 15:45:55
October 03 2017 15:28 GMT
#1679
On October 04 2017 00:21 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:40 brian wrote:
i could, but i’m not here to complain about the posting standards of users, this was just mentioned as a no-go a few posts prior. but your example is a very clear garbage in, garbage out. and that kind of garbage is rife in the whole thread on both sides, so to pretend this particular example is exceptional is disingenuous.

eh, maybe rife is the wrong word. certainly the majority of posts are super quality. but the point still stands regardless, i think.

edit: sorry, don’t think i got the message right the first time around.

Well brain, while I think I get your point of "a shitpost for a shitpost" being your justification for that being not so bad, I might have to ask: is that the precedent that you really want to set? That if someone else is shitty then it's ok for everyone else to be? What about incorrectly perceived shit like the last tirade zlefin had when he got warned for responding to a "shitpost" from you?

I agree that that one post isn't anything special. But is that really the methodology you want to use to justify it? That there are other, vaguely specified, shitty posts to pay attention to so any one instance needs to be ignored? An instance here, an instance there and pretty soon you're talking mounds of manure. And if it's already a pile of shit, why not shit out a little more on top?

do you have an alternative? because asking everyone to just ignore shit like RiK is admirable, but not likely to work. we’ve lost countless dozens of pages due to responses to left field shitpost of similar caliber.

and i mean when my friend lost his marbles because i didn’t respond as he saw fit, the logical conclusion came and went without much commotion(well, additional commotion, anyway) i see no problem there.

-brain
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 03 2017 15:55 GMT
#1680
Ignoring is what I do when I see someone not worth talking to. Sure other people might bite and cause some flyover pages but not every person you think is shitty did something worthy of a ban.

"Don't feed the troll." Realistically it might not cause them to stop but is the alternative better?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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