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https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083
On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government.
Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.)
This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works.
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Why are you quoting some unpleasant interactions in the South American thread to post in the US politics feedback thread?
And seriously, why are you trying to generalize a 40-post-count person to smear some thread veterans? Surely actual frequent posters have recent examples to quote to judge them on their own posting. Imagine if someone you’re attacking had used a sub-100 post account to say that’s exactly the effect you’re causing in threads.
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On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works.
It was normalized long before neb even started posting in the thread. It was just aimed at other posters (not even talking about myself).
EDIT: Not going to hound you, but if you're going to mention me I just want to repeat my concern for what you believe my intentions are here?
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On January 22 2020 15:27 Danglars wrote:
Why are you quoting some unpleasant interactions in the South American thread to post in the US politics feedback thread?
Bullying and its consequences don't stop at the boundary between threads.
And seriously, why are you trying to generalize a 40-post-count person to smear some thread veterans? Surely actual frequent posters have recent examples to quote to judge them on their own posting.
I've commented on the actual posts of the people involved as well, previously. The fact that their behaviour and its reception encourages others to pile on is pertinent to why it is problematic.
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On January 22 2020 16:11 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 15:27 Danglars wrote:
Why are you quoting some unpleasant interactions in the South American thread to post in the US politics feedback thread? Bullying and its consequences don't stop at the boundary between threads. Show nested quote +And seriously, why are you trying to generalize a 40-post-count person to smear some thread veterans? Surely actual frequent posters have recent examples to quote to judge them on their own posting. I've commented on the actual posts of the people involved as well, previously. The fact that their behaviour and its reception encourages others to pile on is pertinent to why it is problematic.
1) rexxO's contributions clearly do end at the boundary of the thread
2) GH isn't responsible for rexxO's posts. He isn't even responsible for creating an environment where it's okay to make rexxO's kind of post.
3) If said environment exists, and I don't think it does... then GH contributes to that environment, but so does pretty much everybody else in the politics threads, including you with this current line of attack.
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On January 22 2020 16:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 16:11 Aquanim wrote:On January 22 2020 15:27 Danglars wrote:
Why are you quoting some unpleasant interactions in the South American thread to post in the US politics feedback thread? Bullying and its consequences don't stop at the boundary between threads. And seriously, why are you trying to generalize a 40-post-count person to smear some thread veterans? Surely actual frequent posters have recent examples to quote to judge them on their own posting. I've commented on the actual posts of the people involved as well, previously. The fact that their behaviour and its reception encourages others to pile on is pertinent to why it is problematic. 1) rexxO's contributions clearly do end at the boundary of the thread
This does not pertain to anything I said.
2) GH isn't responsible for rexxO's posts. He isn't even responsible for creating an environment where it's okay to make rexxO's kind of post.
I disagree with the second part of this statement. I'll grant he and they are not solely responsible.
(edit: Well, "being okay to make that kind of post" is missing the point a bit. A clearer way to put it would be that an environment has been created where rexxO would *choose* to make that post, and his previous antagonistic posts.)
3) If said environment exists, and I don't think it does... then GH contributes to that environment, but so does pretty much everybody else in the politics threads...
GreenHorizons and the others I named are far more responsible for the environment as it currently exists than anybody else.
including you with this current line of attack.
Standing around and being complicit would be "contributing to that environment". I've decided not to do that any more.
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Norway28704 Posts
Yeah I'm gonna call complete bs on this 'accusation'. If someone other than jimmy or DMCD (or one of the others who have been outspoken in the past) thinks GH's harping on socialism is annoying then that is not 'a consequence of jimmy and dmcd's campaign to smear GH', it's just how the person feels.
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On January 22 2020 19:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yeah I'm gonna call complete bs on this 'accusation'. If someone other than jimmy or DMCD (or one of the others who have been outspoken in the past) thinks GH's harping on socialism is annoying then that is not 'a consequence of jimmy and dmcd's campaign to smear GH', it's just how the person feels.
If it just extended to how people think about JimmiC or DMCD you might have a point (although even then it's entirely possible for one person to manipulate others). When it extends to how people act, and generally seek to attack, provoke, and bully those posters, your analogy fails to hold entirely.
Of course, I don't expect you (or GH or Nebuchad) to acknowledge any validity whatsoever to any line of reasoning I might have on this matter.
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On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works.
out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them?
ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation.
but seriously, how embarrassing.
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On January 22 2020 20:25 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works. out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them? ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation. but seriously, how embarrassing.
I think you've missed the point. The attitude of those posters over a long period of time towards JimmiC etc. have contributed to rexxO believing it is socially acceptable in this community + Show Spoiler +whether it is acceptable with respect to site rules is another question entirely
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On January 22 2020 20:39 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 20:25 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works. out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them? ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation. but seriously, how embarrassing. I think you've missed the point.
did you not do the same thing? i’m eager to hear how you distinguish your blatant hypocrisy from what you’re calling out here as the problem. please do feel free to help me see the light.
to your edit, sorry, but does that actually make a distinction? i’m not sure i saw it, if it did. rexxo isn’t here to answer for what he’s written, but you are, so excuse my directness in asking.
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On January 22 2020 20:40 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 20:39 Aquanim wrote:On January 22 2020 20:25 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works. out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them? ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation. but seriously, how embarrassing. I think you've missed the point. did you not do the same thing? i’m eager to hear how you distinguish your blatant hypocrisy from what you’re calling out here as the problem. please do feel free to help me see the light. to your edit, sorry, but does that actually make a distinction? i’m not sure i saw it, if it did.
I'm making observations about how GreenHorizons' and others' posts affect the culture of the forum; that culture (fairly obviously?) has a persistent effect including on conversations they're not directly participating in.
rexxO made up some strawman position and claimed that JimmiC held it, without any further reasoning or justification.
I'm not sure why you think the two things are in any way similar. Your tone does seem to indicate you are very motivated to throw shit at me though.
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On January 22 2020 20:47 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 20:40 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 20:39 Aquanim wrote:On January 22 2020 20:25 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works. out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them? ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation. but seriously, how embarrassing. I think you've missed the point. did you not do the same thing? i’m eager to hear how you distinguish your blatant hypocrisy from what you’re calling out here as the problem. please do feel free to help me see the light. to your edit, sorry, but does that actually make a distinction? i’m not sure i saw it, if it did. I'm making observations about how GreenHorizons' and others' posts affect the culture of the forum; that culture (fairly obviously?) has a persistent effect including on conversations they're not directly participating in. rexxO made up some strawman position and claimed that JimmiC held it, without any further reasoning or justification. I'm not sure why you think the two things are in any way similar. Your tone does seem to indicate you are very motivated to throw shit at me though.
sorry if using your own words back at you and calling out blatant hypocrisy, which as far as i can tell is still the case, feels like i’m throwing shit. i get this a lot when i quote people. idk, is it me?
so if i’m following, you’re attributing rexxo’s post to people who weren’t in the conversation (‘due to the environment they created’) and complaining that rexxo is attributing a position to someone not in the conversation.
i think you’ll find people are responsible for their own words and actions.
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On January 22 2020 20:56 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2020 20:47 Aquanim wrote:On January 22 2020 20:40 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 20:39 Aquanim wrote:On January 22 2020 20:25 brian wrote:On January 22 2020 15:03 Aquanim wrote:https://tl.net/forum/general/543016-south-american-politics-thread?page=55#1083On January 22 2020 07:05 rexxO wrote:
Patiently awaiting JimmiC dropping in to explain to us how Glenn should have just done his best to not do cyber crimes if he wanted to not get arrested by the Brazilian government. Apparently we live in a world where some blow-in with 40 posts across TL.net and LiquidDota thinks it's appropriate to wander in and bait and defame somebody who isn't even participating in the current conversation. (Also worth noting rexxO has some history of acting antagonistically towards Dangermousecatdog as well.) This sort of thing is a symptom of the effect which GreenHorizons, aided and abetted by Nebuchad, Drone and several other less active/influential/provocative posters have had on this subset of the site. They have antagonised, baited and provoked JimmiC, DMCD, etc. so often, and been tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by other members of the site and moderation for so long, that it has become normalised and new people are getting in on the act. This is how bullying and ostracism works. out of curiosity, were GH and Neb part of the conversation? or did you just use this post to smear them? ah, sorry, you had provided a link. thanks. i see GH was, and if i’m not mistaken, neither Neb or Drone were. interesting. room for self reflection there, in my opinion. apparently we live in a world where some blow-in thinks it’s appropriate to wander in and bait and defame people who weren’t even part of the conversation. but seriously, how embarrassing. I think you've missed the point. did you not do the same thing? i’m eager to hear how you distinguish your blatant hypocrisy from what you’re calling out here as the problem. please do feel free to help me see the light. to your edit, sorry, but does that actually make a distinction? i’m not sure i saw it, if it did. I'm making observations about how GreenHorizons' and others' posts affect the culture of the forum; that culture (fairly obviously?) has a persistent effect including on conversations they're not directly participating in. rexxO made up some strawman position and claimed that JimmiC held it, without any further reasoning or justification. I'm not sure why you think the two things are in any way similar. Your tone does seem to indicate you are very motivated to throw shit at me though. sorry if using your own words back at you and calling out blatant hypocrisy, which as far as i can tell is still the case, feels like i’m throwing shit. i get this a lot when i quote people. idk, is it me? so if i’m following, you’re attributing rexxo’s post to people who weren’t in the conversation and complaining that rexxo is attributing a position to someone not in the conversation.
+ Show Spoiler +
If you don't see
"i’m eager to hear how you distinguish your blatant hypocrisy from what you’re calling out here as the problem. please do feel free to help me see the light."
as throwing shit then yes it might be you.
I am saying that rexxO felt that it was socially acceptable to make the post he made because he has seen the GreenHorizons clique attack JimmiC (et cetera) in similar ways before and, on some level, "enhance their social prestige" thereby.
(edit: And yes, there might not be a direct one-to-one link, in the same sense that any one individual bushfire is not "because of climate change". But there is a trend.)
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i don’t. i meant it in earnest. i’m grateful for the opportunity to further understand. and like i said, it still seems blatantly hypocritical. there’s not a nicer way to put it, if there were i would have done so. hypocrisy is a trend among complaints in this thread about GH so it feels important to note it.
so you are indeed attributing his post to people not in the conversation. we agree there?
i can’t see any world in which attacking a person is seen as increasing their social prestige. we must see things in drastically different lights.
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On January 22 2020 21:03 brian wrote:
i don’t. i meant it in earnest. i’m grateful for the opportunity to further understand.
Given that you started with (and apparently still hold) the assumption that I was acting as a blatant hypocrite I find this a little hard to believe. Feels much more like you're trying to find a way to twist what I'm saying to justify that initial assumption (and to justify the shit you threw based on it).
so you are indeed attributing his post to people not in the conversation. we agree there?
Given that you are trying to draw a similarity between the use of the word "attribute" in "rexxo is attributing a position to someone not in the conversation" and "attributing rexxo’s post to people who weren’t in the conversation", and from my point of view the nature of the "attribution" is completely different, I do not think we agree and I think you are trying to twist what I said into something I did not say.
i can’t see any world in which attacking a person is seen as increasing their social prestige. we must see things in drastically different lights.
If you're completely unfamiliar with the concept of a bully trying to look good to his pals by picking on an "outsider" to the social group, then I can well imagine that my entire line of argument doesn't make much sense to you.
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Norway28704 Posts
so you are saying that people coming into the political threads on our website will get the impression that in the jimmy vs GH argument, 'allying with GH' will make them more popular because GH is more popular than jimmy and has more supporters? That's opposite of part of jimmy's argument, tbh, where he claims that he himself doesn't really have problems with anyone but GH (and recently neb, too), and that GH is disliked by far more posters.
I don't actually want to bring in Jimmy in this though, because I feel you are making an argument on his behalf that he himself doesn't support. I also don't understand your crusade at all - I like jimmy as a poster when he's not arguing with GH - and have told him as much (in a private message, to be fair).
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Sometimes I wish I knew what GHs goal on the forum is, but i'm 99% sure it isn't what aquanim thinks it is.
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On January 22 2020 21:20 Liquid`Drone wrote:
so you are saying that people coming into the political threads on our website will get the impression that in the jimmy vs GH argument, 'allying with GH' will make them more popular because GH is more popular than jimmy and has more supporters? That's opposite of part of jimmy's argument, tbh, where he claims that he himself doesn't really have problems with anyone but GH (and recently neb, too), and that GH is disliked by far more posters.
I'm not saying everybody who enters the politics threads is going to do this. For starters, they'd have to find the GH crowd's politics compatible with theirs and not mind being an asshole to other people in this way.
It doesn't necessarily have to make them popular with *everybody* in the community, just the subset of highly vocal posters that they want to be buddies with. That motivation is not inconsistent with there being several people in the community who have a lot of distaste for GH.
I don't actually want to bring in Jimmy in this though, because I feel you are making an argument on his behalf that he himself doesn't support. I also don't understand your crusade at all - I like jimmy as a poster when he's not arguing with GH - and have told him as much (in a private message, to be fair).
I'll grant that your contribution to this mess is more in relation to you shitting on DMCD and feeling justified in doing so, and generally having GreenHorizons' back, than your attitude to JimmiC.
On January 22 2020 21:23 Jockmcplop wrote:
Sometimes I wish I knew what GHs goal on the forum is, but i'm 99% sure it isn't what aquanim thinks it is.
I think he's here (at least to some degree) to learn how to get his political message across, what tactics are effective and what he can get away with. Are you 99% sure it's not that?
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Norway28704 Posts
According to my memory I've had one argument with DMCD where I thought he was being really unreasonable. *I might have thought so on other times too, but I don't think it's been something I vocalized. (It happened after DMCD accused GH of being opposed to gay marriage. )
That argument happened while he was attacking GH in a way that made even JimmyC post that it was unreasonable. JimmiC December 04, 2019 04:32
What is going on with you lately? First you make up some crap and freak out on the environment thread, then you go at GH super hard for no reason on the pol thread and now your even pick fights here and on the US pol thread. I can't tell if you are purposely misreading to get into fights or what, but I wish you luck.
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EPT
