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I frequently visit the Movies you have seen recently thread to get recommendations on movies. So far it's been very helpful in introducing me to new films. However for the last 3 pages, it's just been people harping on each other's taste in movies, and then evolving into an argument on objective qualities of a movie. Not only does this not coincide with the intent of the thread, it is also discourages people from posting their latest movie reviews because they are being judged so heavily on their taste in movies.
So my recommendation is to create a few rules on that thread
-You may not bash someone for their taste in movies. If you disagree with someone else's review, you can post your own review. This will be much more helpful for readers who are looking for movies. Examples of posts that infringe this rule include:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87868¤tpage=246#4906
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87868¤tpage=246#4910
-There shouldn't be any discussion on the topic of film criticism without relating it to a specific movie. An example of this would be:
On July 09 2013 01:45 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:38 Silvanel wrote:On July 08 2013 22:08 corumjhaelen wrote:On July 08 2013 21:56 Silvanel wrote:Actualy thats the only conclusion that makes sense if You know a lot about aesthetics. Why else people would come up with things like "Dickie's Institutional Theory of art"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_art#InstitutionalYou cant point anything that distinguish art from not art. Good art from bad art. Relativistic? Yes. But other options doesnt make sense really. It applies to movies obviously. Funnily enough, your link does give a criteria to ditinguish art from non art. And I'm not even talking about the other paragraphs of the article. As for Duchamp's ready-made, they are an interesting work, but also a self-fullfilling prophecy. Edit : also the relativist position doesn't make any sense either. Because as far as I know, not even its biggest fans are using the "random" link on imdb to chose what to watch next, which they would do if they were coherent. Saying that ultimately there are no means to distinguish good art from bad is one thing. Saying: there is group of people that have similiar taste to mine, and I shall choose my poison based on their judgemnt is another. One can enjoy specyfic type of music/movies without saying its the best kind of art. Also how Dickies conecption isnt relativistic? If i get my friendly custodian to display my shit in the museum of modern art it suddenly becomes an art. It isnt relativistic? Thats why instead of saying: "this movie is better than teh other" i prefere to say, "I enjoyed this movie better than the other". Small yet fundamental difference. You can, but I don't think you should. There's two things. For one, your art is not in a museum. Saying art is what is in a museum doesn't really help, unless you pretend items end up in museum at random. I don't think they do, do you ? So it doesn't follow at all that this is a relativistic conception. Secondly, you have to understand that this idea of art being entirely subjective is a historical construction. Hardly anybody would have agreed with you two centuries ago, it is a consequence of how art has changed. Therefore those modern construction of what art is don't explain what art has been in general for humanity, but only what it is for a part of it in the last decades. I understand it as a perversion of art by art. There are other conceptions of what art is that give it an objective content. I'm far from an expert, but Proust gives a theory of litterature (and art in general) that makes a lot of sense, Tarkovsky has very profound idea about film-making, and someone like Kant has pretty interesting ideas about what beauty is. Your point of view is far from obvious.
Although this is an excellent and very knowledgeable post for a thread about film or artistic criticism, it doesn't really fit the intent of a thread that's meant for movie recommendations.
I'm posting this here instead of the movie thread because I don't want to derail it any further.
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France6884 Posts
Hey. I'm one of the big reason for this derail, but I in fact quite agree with you. Well not on everything, but this is clearly a derail, and it shouldn't be what the thread is about.
Personnally, I also wish there was a rule that encourage people to write more substancial reviews (same thing in the book thread ideally). One liner are frowned upon in most of TL, except movie/book thread where it is the norm.
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Can't we rename it to "General Movie Thread" or something alike, while we're at it?
A thread titled "movies you've seen recently" sends the wrong message and causes responses like
Avatar
9/10.
A different title would encourage more substantial reviews (as in: at least three sentences). And if that doesn't work, a mod note can still be the ultimate solution.
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France6884 Posts
Agreed with Spekulatius.
And I think a simple rule to avoid any sort of derail would be "please keep this thread to specific movie discussion", or something like that.
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Well, the original idea of the thread, from what I could see, was to be something like the What are you reading thread, where people mostly say what they have watched/read without any meaningfull discussion. So just a small single line review isn't exactly unexpected. A full blown discussion was not it's purpose, unless something changed. I haven't seen noone complaining about one liners in the book thread.
Changing the thread to "Movie discussion" would kill it's purpose, and with the OP himself as an example, some people like these kind of threads where you can quickly read other people's opinions on movies you might want to watch. Instead of turning it into a thread where you may argue why other posters opinion's are wrong, you may as well create another thread for that specific purpose.
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Where do we draw the line in terms of discouraging list threads though? Maybe I'm alone in this, but seeing one line snippets and a movie poster does absolutely nothing for me, and in terms of being exposed to new or unknown movies, I'd very much prefer to know a bit more about the movies in question.
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France6884 Posts
@SKC : I think it should also be discouraged in the book thread, and I've thought that for a while. There you have it, someone who complains about it :p
100% agreed with farva here.
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I'm sure some people like to see the overall reaction to a certain movie or just want ideas. Just as some people like the Pictures, Desktops or Books thread. I'm just saying that if you think a list thread is by it's nature not worth it, it's probally better to close that one down and make another for more meaningfull discussion. Renaming and switching it's purpose seems silly to me. But I don't see how that thread is diferent from other similar threads.
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France6884 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:16 SKC wrote:
I'm sure some people like to see the overall reaction to a certain movie or just want ideas. Just as some people like the Pictures, Desktops or Books thread. I'm just saying that if you think a list thread is by it's nature not worth it, it's probally better to close that one down and make another for more meaningfull discussion. Renaming and switching it's purpose seems silly to me. But I don't see how that thread is diferent from other similar threads.
Books thread should be the same as the movie thread, entertain discussion. Destkop thread is no problem because you don't need an explanation to see if you like a wallpaper. Same thing about the funny pics thread, where the goal is to maximize the number of funny picture per page.
Not sure what are the other list thread, but overall I don't like the idea of having list thread except in particular cases. Just like poll thread are frowned upon.
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On July 09 2013 08:06 farvacola wrote:
Where do we draw the line in terms of discouraging list threads though? Maybe I'm alone in this, but seeing one line snippets and a movie poster does absolutely nothing for me, and in terms of being exposed to new or unknown movies, I'd very much prefer to know a bit more about the movies in question.
What I'm advocating for is the discussion of specific movies instead of the discussion of the concept of a movie. I guess I was a bit ambiguous in my OP, and I have edited it to make it more clear.
Basically, if someone recently saw a movie and wrote a review on it, I encourage discussion on why it was a good or bad movie. As a reader, this helps me to determine if a movie is worth watching or not.
What I don't really want to see is an argument on how to objectively rank movie quality without advertising any movies. I have put in an example in the OP. This argument has been going on for 4 pages now, and I would like it to be moved to a different thread altogether. Maybe someone can start a thread titled Criticizing Art or Objective qualities in art. This type of discussion may help one develop as a film critic, but in no way does it help one find movies to watch.
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