EPT
Power Rank gone from right sidebar?
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
a) the beginning and end of each month b) when someone high up loses (like flash, although he never loses  !)As such, we felt that Featured Newsing it was a better fit rather than having it take up space on the right side. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:53 Chairman Ray wrote: What's the ranking under TLPD? TLPD ranking based off of ELO for international/korea in SC2 On August 24 2011 13:53 TwoToneTerran wrote: It's not really a transition, its just a matter of removing as much static content from the right as possible and replacing it with useful tools and links. I guess the exception is the SC2 ranking that is there atm, but don't read into this as SC2 ranking replacing SC1 ranking - we've been looking for a way to fit in the SC2 ranking for a while now, and it doesn't have any attached discussion threads.Ah, so it'll get 2 days of being a link on the left sidebar then disappear? Oh well, I guess I kind of saw this transition slowly coming but atleast it's not totally gone. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:55 FabledIntegral wrote: Would be cool if you could have two separate search bars for TLPD instead of a dropdown^^. You have no idea how many times I type in "Flash" or "Bisu" into SC2 International .One day R1CH will implement something so that it remembers your preference  | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:56 Plexa wrote: One day R1CH will implement something so that it remembers your preference Hehe I follow both BW and SC2. I use SC2 (International) over 50% of the time, but I like looking up everything, especially in the morning when I'm supposed to be working and want to check up on Bisu, hehe. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:54 Plexa wrote: TLPD ranking based off of ELO for international/korea in SC2 It's not really a transition, its just a matter of removing as much static content from the right as possible and replacing it with useful tools and links. I guess the exception is the SC2 ranking that is there atm, but don't read into this as SC2 ranking replacing SC1 ranking - we've been looking for a way to fit in the SC2 ranking for a while now, and it doesn't have any attached discussion threads. It's still replacing it, no matter how you look at it -- BW rank is gone from right sidebar, SC2 rank is there, discussion or no. As I said, it's been slowly happening the whole time. Fantasy SC2 over Fantasy SCBW, the TLPD search engine defaulting to SC2. It's completely understandable and even expected because TL is primarily SC2 fans nowadays and I'm not bitter (was just confused for a bit), it's just like watching the old awesome dog you've known and had for years slowly drift away while people pet the new puppy, you know? | ||
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PeaNuT_T
Sweden326 Posts
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
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R1CH
Netherlands10340 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:00 PeaNuT_T wrote: Also, over the featured streams there is no "View all streams" button anymore. Click the button. | ||
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PeaNuT_T
Sweden326 Posts
I dont see one, only " Show non-featured" | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
Was there a reason for this? Does the same apply to guys like Select? Also, I thought Plexa quit TL, how come he's back and posting in this thread? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: It's still replacing it, no matter how you look at it -- BW rank is gone from right sidebar, SC2 rank is there, discussion or no. As I said, it's been slowly happening the whole time. Fantasy SC2 over Fantasy SCBW, the TLPD search engine defaulting to SC2. It's completely understandable and even expected because TL is primarily SC2 fans nowadays and I'm not bitter (was just confused for a bit), it's just like watching the old awesome dog you've known and had for years slowly drift away while people pet the new puppy, you know? Awesome old dog i love your analogy but two tone terran i think it's acceptable after all tl.net majority fans these days are comprised of sc2 . I have seen this coming already I guess we are still lucky that we have our power rankings in featured still . | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
Click it. | ||
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Clafou
Belgium921 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:54 Plexa wrote: TLPD ranking based off of ELO for international/korea in SC2 Why would we exclude Koreans from the TLPD international ranking ? It doesn't make much sense. First, Koreans participating international competitions are included in TLPD International and thus actively modify Elo rankings with the games they play. Second, what about Koreans playing mainly international events, won't they never appear anywhere ?We are missing major players such as Puma/MMA who are the best players in the world in international competitions but aren't as good in the Korean TLPD ranking. | ||
bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:09 bearbuddy wrote: Feels strange now, since the first thing I look at when coming into TL is the number of comments in the PR to see if there's an update to the discussion. Yeah, it just means a few extra clicks but that's how things have been going. Few extra clicks to get to fantasy bw, few extra clicks to search bw players, few extra clicks to get rid of the yellow liquibet eyesores at the top left. DAMN YOU EXTRA CLICKS | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
If not, then I guess it's understandable. | ||
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warcralft
Singapore609 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Ideas
United States8101 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, it just means a few extra clicks but that's how things have been going. Few extra clicks to get to fantasy bw, few extra clicks to search bw players, few extra clicks to get rid of the yellow liquibet eyesores at the top left. DAMN YOU EXTRA CLICKS dont forget the extra scrolls to get past SC2 forum and to the BW forum lol | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:12 warcralft wrote: where is the power rank then? Top Bar: Features -> Power Rank | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:13 Ideas wrote: dont forget the extra scrolls to get past SC2 forum and to the BW forum lol Sc2 comes first than only bw felt like we were just downgraded to second class citizen | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Minion1
32 Posts
/flameshieldon | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:11 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, it just means a few extra clicks but that's how things have been going. Few extra clicks to get to fantasy bw, few extra clicks to search bw players, few extra clicks to get rid of the yellow liquibet eyesores at the top left. DAMN YOU EXTRA CLICKS I'm just gonna make good use of bookmark, heh. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:17 Minion1 wrote: Will there be a SC2 PowerRank anytime soon? :s /flameshieldon I always thought SC2 would get a rank as soon as the GSL picked up, but I guess the international scene kind of skews things when you go to rank. BW is perfectly standardized in Korea and therefore easier to judge. | ||
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Minion1
32 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I always thought SC2 would get a rank as soon as the GSL picked up, but I guess the international scene kind of skews things when you go to rank. BW is perfectly standardized in Korea and therefore easier to judge. I'd totally be happy with a Korea-only SC2 PowerRank, only one that matters in my opinion since almost every time a Korean competes in a foreign event, they win. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:20 Minion1 wrote: I'd totally be happy with a Korea-only SC2 PowerRank, only one that matters in my opinion since almost every time a Korean competes in a foreign event, they win. Lots of people here are foreigners, not sure how well that'd go over. There'd atleast be debate, which there is none with BW. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
They are awesome pieces of history and effort of the TL community. When i first came to TL roughly 3 years ago as a lurker, and read through these, i was completely blown away by the high quality writing, graphics, passion and commitment of the people on this page. I read most of them and learned about the history of Broodwar, what happened before i came to the scene and what some players meant. That they weren't just a name, that they stood for something, that they built a legacy. I really hope they come back to the spotlight, because if anything deserves it, then the final edits. Especially over something as trivial as the Pools for instance . | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:30 Elefanto wrote: It makes me really really sad that the final edits lost their spotlight. They are awesome pieces of history and effort of the TL community. When i first came to TL roughly 3 years ago as a lurker, and read through these, i was completely blown away by the high quality writing, graphics, passion and commitment of the people on this page. I read most of them and learned about the history of Broodwar, what happened before i came to the scene and what some players meant. That they weren't just a name, that they stood for something, that they built a legacy. I really hope they come back to the spotlight, because if anything deserves it, then the final edits. Especially over something as trivial as the Pools for instance .Features -> final edits | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
saddening to see that TL is neglecting BW so much, the game without which the community would have not existed in the first place reminds me bit of blizzard itself, after the merge with activision | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: It's still replacing it, no matter how you look at it -- BW rank is gone from right sidebar, SC2 rank is there, discussion or no. As I said, it's been slowly happening the whole time. Fantasy SC2 over Fantasy SCBW, the TLPD search engine defaulting to SC2. It's completely understandable and even expected because TL is primarily SC2 fans nowadays and I'm not bitter (was just confused for a bit), it's just like watching the old awesome dog you've known and had for years slowly drift away while people pet the new puppy, you know? i'm very bitter. very. this sucks. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:46 phosphorylation wrote: apparently they had the time to implement all these changes for SC2 but not enough time to implement the much-needed and much-requested calendar with BW events (which I recall was said to be "under work") saddening to see that TL is neglecting BW so much, the game without which the community would have not existed in the first place reminds me bit of blizzard itself, after the merge with activision ***I am a huge BW fanboy*** It makes perfect sense that SC2 is the forefront. TL is a website, and I think my other major forum said it best when they changed names from Fbodyonline.com to Camarozone.com (for the record: What an F Body is. - TLDR all Firebirds and Camaros are F-bodies. The Firebird is no longer being made as Pontiac went out of business, leaving the Camaro as the only "F Body" left.) The Site Owner: So I've got a pretty big and exciting announcement to make. We've come to the decision to rebrand the site & move domain names to CamaroZone.com . The site is still going to be the same members, and all posts/photos/galleries, etc.. will all stay as they are. It is simply a name change. I don't want any firebird owners to think that we're throwing them to the curb and the firebird will still be a prominent feature of the site, but just as GM did, we need to move forward and make sure we stay current with what people are looking for. This will allow us to not only work with 5th Generation Owners, but 6th Generation and on after that, as the F-Body is no longer in production. We had to think long and hard about this change but felt it would be in the best interest of the community to evolve.We definitely plan to make sure firebirds and all versions of the F-Body Platform are properly represented around here. You can basically substitute Firebird for Brood War, and Camaro for SC2, and fill in the rest of the blanks. TL is essentially doing the same thing. TL needs to focus on its majority populace, and make sure that it stays current with events that are relevant to Starcraft/ ESPORTS. Can you imagine if TL NEVER touched SC2 at all? Look at how slow the BW subforums move - the users who love and support BW are still there, however it's just a slow scene at the moment. No foreign BW players doing...well...anything, and the subforums are just filled with crickets. TL would be left in the dust, and that's not what we want. BW fan, SC2 fan, BW hater, SC2 hater. No one wants TL to fail or become stale. I love BW more than the next guy, but I understand that TL can't just not move forward. Maybe you should try and understand that too. They need to make their SC2 content clean and easy to navigate for all the SC2 noobies, before they worry about aesthetics and making sure that a BW die-hard doesn't have to click a dropdown to select "BW - Korea" before searching for a player. Although I'll admit, I NEVER remember to drop down to BW in the stupid search bar, and I get terribly annoyed with the Calendar. :p I disagree a tiny bit with what TwoTone is saying here, though, it's not really an SC2 power rank, it's an ELO rank. Brood War Power Rank never stacked by ELO - there's no discussion and it's an ELO number, not a tournament performance rank. It's still there, yes, but it's slightly different, so it's a little unfair to accuse TL of replacing it. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
I agree with you on the rest though, as I said earlier, it's to be expected. | ||
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EnOmy
Australia183 Posts
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:00 TwoToneTerran wrote: Torenhire: It is an active part of the sidebar that represent only SC2, and there is no BW equivalent. It's not an exact, apples to apples replacement, but SC2 has a featured sidebar ranking. Now tell me what on the right sidebar do you see that has anything to do with BW. I agree with you on the rest though, as I said earlier, it's to be expected. R1CH is working very hard on something to let you choose between bw and sc2 elo and liquipedia To answer your question, on the right side I see that the calendar and stream list already treat sc2 and broodwar equally. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:00 TwoToneTerran wrote: Torenhire: It is an active part of the sidebar that represent only SC2, and there is no BW equivalent. It's not an exact, apples to apples replacement, but SC2 has a featured sidebar ranking. Now tell me what on the right sidebar do you see that has anything to do with BW. I agree with you on the rest though, as I said earlier, it's to be expected. I said I only disagreed with you partially - it's not fair to say it's "replaced" Power Rank, because the PR is still there, it's just not on the right bar. They're two separate things. It's replaced the PLACE of the Power Rank, but not the actual Power Rank itself, that's all I meant by that last comment. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:04 gogogadgetflow wrote: R1CH is working very hard on something to let you choose between bw and sc2 elo and liquipedia To answer your question, on the right side I see that the calendar and stream list already treat sc2 and broodwar equally. Ah yes, a fair point. Shame nothing else is. Actually I'm not sure how the streams priority works. Is it a matter of seniority? As the only 2 BW streams are 2 of the featured ones. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:00 TwoToneTerran wrote: Torenhire: It is an active part of the sidebar that represent only SC2, and there is no BW equivalent. It's not an exact, apples to apples replacement, but SC2 has a featured sidebar ranking. Now tell me what on the right sidebar do you see that has anything to do with BW. I agree with you on the rest though, as I said earlier, it's to be expected. I don't have a problem with the direction TL as a website and forum is moving but i feel like removal of power rank and instatement (did i make up a word?) SC2 elo ranks is a indeed a replacement. | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:54 Plexa wrote: TLPD ranking based off of ELO for international/korea in SC2 It's not really a transition, its just a matter of removing as much static content from the right as possible and replacing it with useful tools and links. I guess the exception is the SC2 ranking that is there atm, but don't read into this as SC2 ranking replacing SC1 ranking - we've been looking for a way to fit in the SC2 ranking for a while now, and it doesn't have any attached discussion threads. Don't do this. I understand you had to transition out of BW eventually and while it does make me bitter it's fine. But you're Team Liquid, don't sit there and run PR on it like you're Blizzard or something, at least give us that much respect. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:18 Lachrymose wrote: Don't do this. I understand you had to transition out of BW eventually and while it does make me bitter it's fine. But you're Team Liquid, don't sit there and run PR on it like you're Blizzard or something, at least give us that much respect. ouch. you will drive him away again this way you know? | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:18 Lachrymose wrote: Don't do this. I understand you had to transition out of BW eventually and while it does make me bitter it's fine. But you're Team Liquid, don't sit there and run PR on it like you're Blizzard or something, at least give us that much respect. Seconded. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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yeti
United States258 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:15 Kanil wrote: The liquipedia search bar seems to default to SC2. Is there a way to search the BW liquipedia as well? I haven't found a way. It seems you have to manually direct to the Liquidpedia (BW) page and then use the search function. Can R1CH add a drop down bar like the one under TLPD? Also I would love for each user to set the default search of TLPD to BW or SC2 Korea. I almost never search SC2 International, and I always forget to change to BW (years of habit). Of course that would be hard to implement seeing as each user's preference would have to be saved. Thanks! | ||
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kaleidoscope
Singapore2887 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:52 Plexa wrote: PR is moving to featured news. The reason being that PR only really receives bursts of activity around a) the beginning and end of each month b) when someone high up loses (like flash, although he never loses !)As such, we felt that Featured Newsing it was a better fit rather than having it take up space on the right side. then i guess "T*SL" column fits that description too. IMO, having both power ranks of BW and SC2 will be good.. edit: oh, having to select the drop list each time i TLPD players is pretty annoying. either having both BW TLPD and SC2 TLPD, or having the previous searched category be the new default search category, saved as cookie.. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10160 Posts
.... Always knew this day was coming... Everytime i go on tl, i instinctively scroll to the vw forums and on the short way down, instinctively look right to see for that pr, and always thinking how they should make it weekly (i know thatd b stupid) and it didnt matter if it was the 15th of the month or 31th, id check for updates. No pr feels like a small piece of my soul has been lost... Those extra clicks make things different and i think TTT agrees with me. Its not the same feeling of logging onto tl and looking right at that beautiful pr. | ||
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Troxior
United States168 Posts
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
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eXeRicH
Germany89 Posts
This community has enough people who know the scene and follow it religiously. I think we would find at least 1 suitable author who would like to do it. | ||
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userstupidname
Sweden272 Posts
I really really wish you bring it back teamliquid liquipedia is really gosu tough :3 and the sc2 powerrank is a great idea but I really wish you got back bw power rank, please :/ | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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kOre
Canada3642 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:59 FabledIntegral wrote: Hehe I follow both BW and SC2. I use SC2 (International) over 50% of the time, but I like looking up everything, especially in the morning when I'm supposed to be working and want to check up on Bisu, hehe. Me too! I always type in Bisu and after I realize I'm in SC2 lol | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
Because apparently TL can't spare anymore space on the right column, even though the left column is almost twice as long Fuckin ridiculous. Just another slap in the face by TL to the BW community | ||
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eXeRicH
Germany89 Posts
It would make new people interested in the proscene and give the casual follower a good overview. He keeps track of everything anyways. :D | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
I understand TL trying to make the site more presentable for the SC2 users, but is there really a reason to completely remove them from the sidebar? Why not have them under Polls or the TLAF button. It'll be in line with the BW section of the left sidebar. Doing this just closes another potential door for people visiting TL to discover BW. I'm trying to put myselves in the shoes of your typical SC2-only user of the site. What have they gained? 2 Lines of Liquipedia links and a search bar, some people my SC2 friends never talk about, and less scrolling to click on Polls. Despite our champion TwoToneTerran's assurances, I really fail to see what benefits SC2 users have gained aside from the Liquipedia access, which does not take up any space at all in the first place. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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NET
United States703 Posts
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surfinbird1
Germany999 Posts
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
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The_Piper42
United States426 Posts
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Ruyguy
Canada988 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
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Umbrella
Taiwan936 Posts
Right now the right side is entirely SC2. It doesn't bother me that much, but it's really weird to see what Teamliquid has evolved into. edit: The liquipedia addition is nice though, although I really really think the l should be capitalized. | ||
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alypse
2771 Posts
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On August 24 2011 16:44 IntoTheEmo wrote: Uh huh, no more R&S, Power rank and Final Edits? It's because basically all the Finals Edits are BW related, don't you know? (And don't give me that bullcrap about Features->final edits. We all know there's a huge difference between being a dropdown tab and being a static, permanent sidebar.) Like everyone said, the majority of TL is with sc2, and the majority of foreign players are with sc2 because of money and opportunity. That's just going where the money is and that's fine. But really.. but don't read into this as SC2 ranking replacing SC1 ranking -.- That's exactly what this is. And I'm cool with that, just don't try to tiptoe around the issue and hope we don't notice... | ||
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salito
1647 Posts
Alternatively you could remove the Replays section on the left column to help ensure that no BW exists on the front page as that would inconvenience the many who mistake them for SC2 replays and ask how to watch them. Also no way to search BW liquidpedia but that's in line with all the other decisions The SC2 ELO rankings are completely useless. They're not a substitute for either sc2 or bw power rankings. Remove it, even if there's no power ranking to take its place. | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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Keone
United States812 Posts
On August 24 2011 13:54 Plexa wrote: TLPD ranking based off of ELO for international/korea in SC2 It's not really a transition, its just a matter of removing as much static content from the right as possible and replacing it with useful tools and links. I guess the exception is the SC2 ranking that is there atm, but don't read into this as SC2 ranking replacing SC1 ranking - we've been looking for a way to fit in the SC2 ranking for a while now, and it doesn't have any attached discussion threads. I understand that SC2 needed a ranking, but would it be too troublesome to add just the same space underneath for BW? This just makes me so sad that a site which was born from BW has gotten rid of a tradition and great fixture in BW. (and yes I know it will still exist, technically. but honestly how many people are going to go to Features -> PR)) | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:14 salito wrote: The SC2 ELO rankings are completely useless. They're not a substitute for either sc2 or bw power rankings. Remove it, even if there's no power ranking to take its place. Also, I still don't understand why Koreans are segregated into their own column. In MaNa's profile, it says "ELO ranking #4". That's not 1st place, that's 4th place. Are the achievements of Koreans just not the same as the foreigners or what. I understand that TL is the foreign HQ for sc2 but still... It looks ridiculous to have rank 1-5, then right next to it, rank 1-5 again. I mean it's the same game and they all play each other. Why not just a 1-10 ranking? Or maybe I'm missing something. I don't really follow sc2 proscene so sorry if it's something obvious I'm not getting. | ||
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Vibes
Germany144 Posts
Removing it from the frontpage is really a HUGE difference. I simply can't agree with the "hey, it's still there - nothing changed"-attitude. And then implementing the liquipedia feature without adding the option for searching the BW-liquipedia makes me kind of angry. This feature is awesome, but come on - why only SC2? I can understand that it was time for a SC2 Powerrank or something like this - times have changed But not implementing the option for BW-liquipedia search - i'm speechless. Such a cool feature - i really love it - but only sc2 is not fair i guess? | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Replacing the BW power rank with its SC2 equivalent is obvious given the userbase for each, grouping the calendar and upcoming events together makes sense, and having both Liquipedia II and TLPD available with 1 click from anywhere is brilliant. Lovely changes, huge props to whoever made them. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
-_-' | ||
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Umbrella
Taiwan936 Posts
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:29 moopie wrote: Surprise, surprise, this works both ways! Hey, what do you know.. the sc2 kids who don't give two shits about bw like these changes. Didn't see that coming. -_-' | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:14 salito wrote: Alternatively you could remove the Replays section on the left column to help ensure that no BW exists on the front page as that would inconvenience the many who mistake them for SC2 replays and ask how to watch them. Also no way to search BW liquidpedia but that's in line with all the other decisions When I was looking at the changes, I was thinking what else could change and it occurred to me also that the Replay section may go. Either completely or it will get be merged into the BW section as a sub forum. Who knows. And there definitely needs to be an option to select BW for liquipedia. It would be great if we could somehow set it both TLPD and Liquipedia to just BW or SC2 for those who don't use the other. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
On August 24 2011 14:06 Clafou wrote: The Liquipedia feature is awesome. Thanks guys. hell yeah! this is looking more and more professional by the day! | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On August 24 2011 16:55 b0lt wrote: Well, here's a quick userscript fix for TLPD search: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1760359/tlbw.user.js I was bored so I hacked together some more stuff. Now it changes the default TLPD search to BW, moves the BW forums above the sc2 forums, and changes the liquipedia search to the BW liquipedia. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:35 b0lt wrote: I was bored so I hacked together some more stuff. Now it changes the default TLPD search to BW, moves the BW forums above the sc2 forums, and changes the liquipedia search to the BW liquipedia. lol sweet | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:29 moopie wrote: Hey, what do you know.. the sc2 kids who don't give two shits about bw like these changes. Didn't see that coming. -_-' I like the changes, and I gave two shits about BW. | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:35 b0lt wrote: I was bored so I hacked together some more stuff. Now it changes the default TLPD search to BW, moves the BW forums above the sc2 forums, and changes the liquipedia search to the BW liquipedia. I would like to try that out, but the link gives me a "connection has timed out"? :/ | ||
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ThePhan2m
Norway2750 Posts
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:37 Hyde wrote: I would like to try that out, but the link gives me a "connection has timed out"? :/ Weird, try here | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
Installed it and using Greasemonkey, but doesn't seem to work. I'm on Firefox 6. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:43 JIJIyO wrote: Installed it and using Greasemonkey, but doesn't seem to work. I'm on Firefox 6. Let me install firefox and see what's up, I've only tried it on chrome | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:43 JIJIyO wrote: Installed it and using Greasemonkey, but doesn't seem to work. I'm on Firefox 6. Yeah I did the same, no changes On August 24 2011 17:44 b0lt wrote: Let me install firefox and see what's up, I've only tried it on chrome ahh okay, thanks | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:44 b0lt wrote: Let me install firefox and see what's up, I've only tried it on chrome Ahhhh I feel kinda bad now having to make you install FF just to test it out. Thanks a lot for the script and for testing. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:14 salito wrote: Alternatively you could remove the Replays section on the left column to help ensure that no BW exists on the front page as that would inconvenience the many who mistake them for SC2 replays and ask how to watch them.. might as well, along with the complete removal of the BW tab on the left and relegate it to a simple subforum under Sports & Games. Oh no, they won't be abandoning BW if they do that, they'll simply be streamlining the website for the majority of its visitors. Of course, the grand exception to this removal of static content is the beloved "TSL" tab, even though it has been far more static than the Power Rank BW, getting kicked in the balls over and over. Just when things looked better (PL Finals viewership, Flash's contract), the floodgates opened and a flood of shit came out | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
That's not a really deserving place for it to be... Also the Power Rank can be found under Features => Power Rank But you can't get access to the thread......................... Oh well. Maybe in the future they will change it. | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:53 Elefanto wrote: That's not a really deserving place for it to be... Also the Power Rank can be found under Features => Power Rank But you can't get access to the thread......................... Oh well. Maybe in the future they will change it. You can still access the thread via Features>PR, you just have to scroll down to the end of the latest PR to get to the link. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On August 24 2011 17:59 Hyde wrote: You can still access the thread via Features>PR, you just have to scroll down to the end of the latest PR to get to the link. But now you can't even see the comment count on it to see if someone posted in there since the last time you checked. Will severely hamper if not kill discussion in it. It will become a ghost of its former self. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
But now you can't even see the comment count on it to see if someone posted in there since the last time you checked. Will severely hamper if not kill discussion in it. It will become a ghost of its former self. Yeah, pretty much. I check the comment count all the time to see if there are new posts in there. | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:01 moopie wrote: But now you can't even see the comment count on it to see if someone posted in there since the last time you checked. Will severely hamper if not kill discussion in it. It will become a ghost of its former self. The link says the total number of comments? Currently it says 221 The only thing is it's a real hassle to scroll down past all what has been written to get to the link, and if you scroll too quickly you can easily miss it | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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Docmedical
Libya75 Posts
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
EDIT: And no, what we have now isn't power rank of SC2. It's just a list of the current great players.No writeup, no opinion and thought given to it like the BW one. | ||
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Goetzinho
Germany8 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
Either TL is moving in the direction of SC2 only portal. Or it's the time of changes and by the end of these hard times both categories of users will be able to have most of information filtered and everything they need on the site. I really hope TL has enough resources and will to fall in the second choice. And yes, removing BW PR from right side is huge for BW followers here. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:16 b0lt wrote: Okay, just tested it in firefox and chrome, it should work now. Get it from here I love you b0lt works great thank you | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
or at least you know instead of using Bolt's script we should be able to set BW on the TLPD and below that we should have the power rank when set to BW. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On August 24 2011 16:31 eXeRicH wrote: A monthly/every 2 weeks/i dont know ''Powerranking''-show would also be an idea for Day[9]. It would make new people interested in the proscene and give the casual follower a good overview. He keeps track of everything anyways. :D i don't know about day[9] doing that. if you're talking about a korean one, then meh, he could do, but i don't care about that. if you're talking about an international one, then definitely not, it'd have to be done by khaldor or some other known european. i always get the feeling from watching things like state of the game that americans have no clue about the european scene, and besides, it's easier to slot in both the americans that might actually contend for such a power rank than have someone in america try to work out who stephano is and make some bad argument for why idra is still anywhere near the best foreigner | ||
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villageidiot
353 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:01 moopie wrote: But now you can't even see the comment count on it to see if someone posted in there since the last time you checked. Will severely hamper if not kill discussion in it. It will become a ghost of its former self. My posts -> latest replies. The beauty of this is that it not only works for the PR, but also for everything else you have posted in. That's how I always check for recent activity. Other than that some people really need to relax a bit, there is no giant conspiracy from TL to get rid of SC or anything remotely like it. At any rate, I personally don't mind the PR not being in the sidebar anymore, it really was too static. Although it being under Features/PR might not be ideal, not sure on what the best way would be. A lot of things are a bit hidden, simple because there are so many, so it's hard to put everything in plain sight. (Like the idea of having news for new PRs each time too) Customizable defaults for TLPD and Liquipedia are definitely something I would like to see though. There are still some things being tuned, but I don't know if anyone is working on this in particular. Easier access to BW R&S is something I'd like to see also. TSLs are the biggest thing TL has ever done, bringing the TSL button into this discussion is pointless. | ||
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Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:07 Docmedical wrote: Why can't we customize our homepage? So we can move the BW related stuff to the front page on our account, and remove all the SC2 stuff. The SC2 fans can do the opposite. Awesome idee :D | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: although I'm a bit confused now that the BW section is above the SC2 section,but I'm ok with it. On the left sidebar? BW is below SC2 for me ??? 0.O | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:49 ShadeR wrote: On the left sidebar? BW is below SC2 for me ??? 0.O If you install the script made by bolt (a few posts back), it moves the BW section above SC2 section, and changes TLPD default to BW korea | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On August 24 2011 15:18 Lachrymose wrote: Don't do this. I understand you had to transition out of BW eventually and while it does make me bitter it's fine. But you're Team Liquid, don't sit there and run PR on it like you're Blizzard or something, at least give us that much respect. The TL staff has always treated its users with tons of respect and has never bullshitted, even with topics way more controversial than this. Plexa is the one that should get at least that much respect. What Plexa said is exactly what happened. We are busy taking as much static content out of the sidebars as possible. There's no reason to have something that never changes be on display permanently. Both Powerrank and TLFE's are static. The Powerrank changes once a month, the TLFE's change even less. As you have noted, removing these things meant that there was a lot of free space available on the right side. We filled this space up for now, but we're still working on the features to put there. Much of what is there already will change as well (such as adding a BW ranking as well), and some things might still be removed. It's understandable that you guys are upset about those features getting moved. There is no insidious plan to kill BW. 95% of the current staff came from the BW scene, and has invested a ton into the BW scene. However, the TL staff will continually work to try to improve the website and make it more user-friendly. Occasionally this will affect BW fans negatively in a small way (such as having a feature be moved one click further away). It's unfortunate when that happens, but we hope the features we add will make up for that. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
I see some of you have brought up the replays tab, and I'll be honest with you - we are discussing what exactly to do with that at the moment. There has been talk of moving it to the right. There's been talk of adding SC2 reps to it. It's all very much up in the air at the moment. It might be removed at some point, but that's unlikely any time in the near future. So far as a customisable TL goes, that's one of our goals. As usual its moving at a slow pace but we do realise there aren't very many other options to keep all of our users happy. Things like the customisable calendar are things we'd like to have but the calendar code is pretty crappy from what I understand and requires a major overhaul to make happen. So far as the recent results go, we'd like to move to a liquipedia oriented system - and hence for BW we'd need the pages up to date (afaik the jinair one is a week out?). Once we're satisfied with it I'm sure R1CH will add it. Also, there is still a strong BW contingent within the staff and they do voice the concerns of the BW community within discussions. No one is kicking BW in the balls here, although it might feel like it. I personally view these changes are growing pains - I'll miss PR from the side bar (as a former author, it holds a special place in my heart) but I know eventually we'll find a good way to balance things and hopefully get that implemented quickly. EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote: Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW.BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it." I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort. So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote: + Show Spoiler + Despite what some of you may think, as carnac said there are no conspiracies to wipe BW off of the face of the earth. Let's look at TLFE for instance, around 5-6 months ago it was brought to my attention that we hadn't had a new FE in months and that the lack of activity in the section made it irrelevant. I protested and said well me and heyoka have some great ideas for TLFEs (SC2 ones mind you) and that we shouldn't remove it from the right sidebar just yet. Obviously in the intermediate time period nothing got written for various reasons - so we removed it. Nothing to do with the fact that there was primarily BW content since there was quite a strong desire to continue TLFE into SC2 - it just never happened because we kept getting swamped unfortunately. Should we write more TLFEs in the future, they'll be featured news items. I see some of you have brought up the replays tab, and I'll be honest with you - we are discussing what exactly to do with that at the moment. There has been talk of moving it to the right. There's been talk of adding SC2 reps to it. It's all very much up in the air at the moment. It might be removed at some point, but that's unlikely any time in the near future. So far as a customisable TL goes, that's one of our goals. As usual its moving at a slow pace but we do realise there aren't very many other options to keep all of our users happy. Things like the customisable calendar are things we'd like to have but the calendar code is pretty crappy from what I understand and requires a major overhaul to make happen. So far as the recent results go, we'd like to move to a liquipedia oriented system - and hence for BW we'd need the pages up to date (afaik the jinair one is a week out?). Once we're satisfied with it I'm sure R1CH will add it. Also, there is still a strong BW contingent within the staff and they do voice the concerns of the BW community within discussions. No one is kicking BW in the balls here, although it might feel like it. I personally view these changes are growing pains - I'll miss PR from the side bar (as a former author, it holds a special place in my heart) but I know eventually we'll find a good way to balance things and hopefully get that implemented quickly. When you say you need the pages up to date are you talking about a liquipedia page for JA OSL? or just the R&S thread to be up to date? | ||
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Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
<Cedstick> I'd honestly just see them replace Polls with Power Rank <Cedstick> The Polls column makes TL feel like a generic gamer or PHP Nuke site template <Cedstick> R1CH forgot to remove it after all these years or something Polls are fun, yay! Everyone loves them! Except they're useless unless it's a question that's actually useful for your demographics and consensus. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 24 2011 19:00 Hyde wrote: The JA R&S is up to date, the liquipedia page is a week out last time I checked. But it might have changed since.When you say you need the pages up to date are you talking about a liquipedia page for JA OSL? or just the R&S thread to be up to date? Regarding polls, a lot of staff really really don't like the poll feature. At the moment it feels like a necessary evil. I know personally I wouldn't be sad if we got rid of it or only made it visible on the front page. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
It's not because you don't click on it that you don't look at it or use it since the main information is who is in it and at which place. For someone who, doesn't follow the stage very closely (don't have time to watch all the games etc...), the power rank was probably the most useful thing on TL right side bar. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:41 Carnac wrote: TSLs are the biggest thing TL has ever done, bringing the TSL button into this discussion is pointless. I still think TLFEs are bigger, but hey that's just me No dissing on TSLs, but I'd certainly like to see work hours compared between all TSLs and all of the TLFEs (would be nail biting close, I'm sure ^^). Besides, if there's one thing (out of MANY) TL should be most proud of and to show off to their new members, I'd choose TLFEs, regardless of their inactivity. When someone who has never been to TL comes and reads those masterpieces (or scroll through them more likely), they should get a pretty good idea what TL is all about - quality. | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
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integral
United States3156 Posts
All of this is coming from a long-time broodwar fan, of course. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
The PR is static, but the discussion around it is ever-going. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
Have it default to sc2 if not changed obviously, as the majority of users are going to be sc2 users, but give the BW users the ability to change it to bw. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5558 Posts
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
The BW R&S links are gone, but the equivalent SC2 links remain. What makes the BW ones static content and the SC2 ones not? SC2 Liquipedia finds a place but there is no dropdown box to select BW? If TLPD were implemented now would that keep it's BW box? As for the SC2 elo rankings on display, that is frankly silly. When it doesn't change it's static content. When it does change it's result spoilers. On every single page. Honestly, if something was looking for the chop it should be the BW replay section. It's clearly the most niche, static thing and would find a home buried in menus much easier than BW R&S and PR. As for the Chill post, no, that is not relevant. It's not like we, as BW community, can just make an effort to 'keep our stuff on the sidebar'. It isn't about TL staff neglecting BW. You didn't neglect to keep BW from being replaced by SC2 on the sidebar - it took effort to do so. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote: What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote: If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. hi, we exist, sort of. But the few of us "holding the line," so to speak (dedicated to BW mostly)---HawaiianPig/Waxangel/riptide/Xxio are half and half---are flamewheel, swanized, Kiante, nbaker, contagi0n, Kwark, mustaju, tree.hugger, harem, Ver when we can get his godly help, and me (and I've been lazy as hell recently with the MSL in limbo and no Chinese articles to translate. Oh shit DES has Chinese now jk). Plus there are the "community contributers" to our news pieces: TTT, lightwip, and lots of others. Then there are translators like infinitestory/white_horse/spica/smix/opticalshot/kyuukyuu/Milkis!![despite his MLG adventures he still loves BW!]/so many others I can't remember; OP creators/LR-ers (zona is leaving us... ); streamers (GTR, nanashin, etc. Only a year and a half ago there were like 5 streams at once @_@); and last but not least, graphics from HP/disciple/silversky.Of these, I guess there aren't that many "higher-ups" anymore (reds): only Wax/Riptide/disciple still do BW, and they do sc2 stuff too. Among blues, there are the new ones, HP and flamewheel. The community is still doing awesome things for BW, but the community itself is shrinking. And I guess BW staff "representation" is decreasing, though the large majority of staff still enjoy watching /following BW, at least occasionally. So... if you'd like to, please step up and help us with coverage and LR threads and streaming and translation and whatever else you think you can help with. apologies if my information is only 90% accurate | ||
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Golden Ghost
Netherlands1041 Posts
However I feel that with the addition of the Liquipedia section in the right side bar the Liquipedia button on the bar between Features and Store has become redundant and it's removal would be a good thing imo. The Liquipedia button on the utmost top bar between TLPro and TSL3 serves exactly the same purpose but let's you go to the Liquipedia main site first before you make the choice between BW and SC2. And no removing the button between Features and Store doesn't result in an extra click because there I have to hoover over the button first before I can make a choice so that's actually more timeconsuming / annoying to me. ps. I have no idea if it's possible but I guess from reading the comments in this thread a lot of people would be happy if when you change the TLPD section from SC2 to BW the ELO would be changed to the BW ELO or Power rank or something like that. | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote: If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. That's the point. There are tons of volunteers for these things for SC2 but no-one volunteers for BW anymore. If someone came along and said that they'd like ensure that the Calender is updated for BW events every week, or write some BW final edits then the staff would love it. As Plexa says, most of us watch both SC2 and BW. However, no-one has done that, which is what's led to the dearth of content for BW. Being volunteers, every staff member chooses how they wish to contribute, and as it is, there just aren't people choosing to contribute to BW right now. What Chill is saying is that If the BW scene wants more effort put into the BW scene, then they need to volunteer to put that effort in. That's how everything is done on TL. | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote: I think his point is that the positions are open. If you want more BW content, help produce it. Liquipedia is a perfect example, since the explicit design of wikis is such that you don't need to be staff to operate them. I think you're seeing an imaginary divide between staff and community. You could just as easily be the next person to take up slack off of [Antoine]'s shoulders, or write a new TLFE or a weekly roundup. "Hire me and then I'll do it" is not the attitude TL.net has ever had, I don't think.What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
I also don't understand how mods can think deleting Broodwar content and replacing it with SC2 is preferable to adding the SC2 content and having both. Or how they can argue that they don't understand why people are getting upset that they thought deleting Broodwar content and replacing it with identical SC2 content could possibly be seen as a SC2 vs Broodwar thing. | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:34 Daigomi wrote: That's the point. There are tons of volunteers for these things for SC2 but no-one volunteers for BW anymore. If someone came along and said that they'd like ensure that the Calender is updated for BW events every week, or write some BW final edits then the staff would love it. As Plexa says, most of us watch both SC2 and BW. However, no-one has done that, which is what's led to the dearth of content for BW. Being volunteers, every staff member chooses how they wish to contribute, and as it is, there just aren't people choosing to contribute to BW right now. What Chill is saying is that If the BW scene wants more effort put into the BW scene, then they need to volunteer to put that effort in. That's how everything is done on TL. But this doesn't make any sense! We had (have) a PR and we had (have) R&S threads but they were defeatured. We're not asking you to make us more content! We're asking you to leave the content we already make alone! Just look at the new SC2 content in the sidebar. It's TLPD SC2 Elo. The TLPD BW Elo is kept up to date and yet that is not featured! (So the difference here is not content production like you try to make it sound) I don't understand how you're trying to turn this thread into some strange rationale that the BW is no longer produced when that is absoutely not what has happened here. "We're moving your content off the sidebar" "What? Why?" "Oh. You need to make your own content" How does this follow? Are you saying somebody from the BW community needs to volunteer to make a new sidebar that puts the BW content back? | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:43 Jibba wrote: I think his point is that the positions are open. If you want more BW content, help produce it. Liquipedia is a perfect example, since the explicit design of wikis is such that you don't need to be staff to operate them. I think you're seeing an imaginary divide between staff and community. You could just as easily be the next person to take up slack off of [Antoine]'s shoulders, or write a new TLFE or a weekly roundup. "Hire me and then I'll do it" is not the attitude TL.net has ever had, I don't think. But I don't have the power to edit the TLPD or the calendar, the two things I care most about. I know I can edit Liquipedia or write articles and submit as TLFE, but my writing is crap and I don't know enough about strategy for it to be useful. Asking to be hired is not what I'm getting at. I'm asking you to ask us to volunteer (in an official capacity) because otherwise we'll surely just keep being little whiny bitches and assume somebody else will do it. Telling us to just do something, anything, like you seem to be doing, won't work for very long and it'll get very confusing. I suppose you'll be able to find somebody for the calendar soon enough though, based on submissions but from where I'm standing, I won't submit anything to the calendar because I assume somebody else will do it and I don't want to do the work unnecessarily. If you understand what I mean. Conscious bystander effect? You ask for volunteers for translators and news writers, so why not the BW Calendar or the BW TLPD? Edit: Just so that we're clear, I don't feel that BW content is lacking, other than in the calendar and some slightly prompter TLPD updating. People have been complaining about the calendar not being updated for months now and that's why I focus on that now. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
The replay section is just looking for the axe (or at least move it to the right and include SC2 replays to salvage it or something), but the plain links below look really bad and out of place now. Is there a technical reason to include them like this? I can't think of one. | ||
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chaosTheory_14cc
Canada1270 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On August 24 2011 22:54 _Status wrote: Whoa, I wake up in the morning and find THIS? Didn't read the whole thread, but in terms of the first few posts, I didn't quite understand. Where exactly have the power ranks been relocated to? http://www.teamliquid.net/powerrank/ Under features. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:15 ]343[ wrote: What... at least put it at the bottom, below the poll if you have to. It won't be taking up much space (or bandwidth--it's text) if it's down there. TL without the power rank (or TLFE for that matter) on the sidebar is just... ... saddening. (And if you're trying to save space, why is the TSL forum still there when there's no TSL?) hi, we exist, sort of. But the few of us "holding the line," so to speak (dedicated to BW mostly)---HawaiianPig/Waxangel/riptide/Xxio are half and half---are flamewheel, swanized, Kiante, nbaker, contagi0n, Kwark, mustaju, tree.hugger, harem, Ver when we can get his godly help, and me (and I've been lazy as hell recently with the MSL in limbo and no Chinese articles to translate. Oh shit DES has Chinese now jk). Plus there are the "community contributers" to our news pieces: TTT, lightwip, and lots of others. Then there are translators like infinitestory/white_horse/spica/smix/opticalshot/kyuukyuu/so many others I can't remember; OP creators/LR-ers (zona is leaving us... ); streamers (GTR, nanashin, etc. Only a year and a half ago there were like 5 streams at once @_@); and last but not least, graphics from HP/disciple/silversky.Of these, I guess there aren't that many "higher-ups" anymore (reds): only Wax/Riptide/disciple still do BW, and they do sc2 stuff too. Among blues, there are the new ones, HP and flamewheel. The community is still doing awesome things for BW, but the community itself is shrinking. And I guess BW staff "representation" is decreasing, though the large majority of staff still enjoy watching /following BW, at least occasionally. So... if you'd like to, please step up and help us with coverage and LR threads and streaming and translation and whatever else you think you can help with. apologies if my information is only 90% accurate Haha, I was mostly referring to the TLPD and the calendar. I'm not sure who can edit those things but it seems to be the same 2-3 people for the TLPD and the calender never seems to be updated till it's almost too late. I love all the articles but we can do better with the TLPD and calendar <3 | ||
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Thratur
Canada917 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote: So far as a customisable TL goes, that's one of our goals. As usual its moving at a slow pace but we do realise there aren't very many other options to keep all of our users happy. Things like the customisable calendar are things we'd like to have but the calendar code is pretty crappy from what I understand and requires a major overhaul to make happen. So far as the recent results go, we'd like to move to a liquipedia oriented system - and hence for BW we'd need the pages up to date (afaik the jinair one is a week out?). Once we're satisfied with it I'm sure R1CH will add it. Also, there is still a strong BW contingent within the staff and they do voice the concerns of the BW community within discussions. I don't know anything about how the calendar code is right now, but I was under the impression all the events were in a database, and they were picked using a SQL request (or equivalent), then added to the calendar one by one which looks like a complicated javascript gibberish. Can't we just add a column to this table that is 0 if the event is a BW event, 1 if the event is an SC2 event, and replace the SQL request (or equivalent) by 3 requests (for every possible combinations of BW, SC2 and BW+SC2)? At least that's how I would do it... but well maybe that structure just isn't there... The default TLPD search menu should also similarly take 15 minutes to code max by adding a new column in the users table, a new form in our profile and the SQL requests (or equivalent) that go with it. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote: Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. Click the Featured News thread, how many of the people actually contributing to all this SC2 content aren't former staff who actually used to do things from BW? The vast majority of things are, what, Waxangel, Heyoka, Hot_Bid? Nazgul for team related stuff, though he hadn't been part of the news section of BW for awhile so that's nothing but a gain. For every new face I see on the SC2 side of the news, I can probably name a new BW contributor -- the difference is that we don't have any of the admin foundation that was the main part of what made BW coverage on this site so great. It's not really fair to go, "Sorry, SC2 demands more attention, deal with it yourselves," when, by your account, the staff still IS ourselves, and still likes BW, they just don't contribute to it either despite actually being TL staff who like BW. Thank goodness we have Hpig, even if he loves SKT. On August 24 2011 21:34 Daigomi wrote: That's the point. There are tons of volunteers for these things for SC2 but no-one volunteers for BW anymore. If someone came along and said that they'd like ensure that the Calender is updated for BW events every week, or write some BW final edits then the staff would love it. As Plexa says, most of us watch both SC2 and BW. However, no-one has done that, which is what's led to the dearth of content for BW. Being volunteers, every staff member chooses how they wish to contribute, and as it is, there just aren't people choosing to contribute to BW right now. What Chill is saying is that If the BW scene wants more effort put into the BW scene, then they need to volunteer to put that effort in. That's how everything is done on TL. Hey, you, I will update the calendar the SECOND there is a BW event. I just thought editing the calendar was some upper admin access stuff. | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On August 24 2011 22:12 Lachrymose wrote: But this doesn't make any sense! We had (have) a PR and we had (have) R&S threads but they were defeatured. We're not asking you to make us more content! We're asking you to leave the content we already make alone! Just look at the new SC2 content in the sidebar. It's TLPD SC2 Elo. The TLPD BW Elo is kept up to date and yet that is not featured! (So the difference here is not content production like you try to make it sound) I don't understand how you're trying to turn this thread into some strange rationale that the BW is no longer produced when that is absoutely not what has happened here. "We're moving your content off the sidebar" "What? Why?" "Oh. You need to make your own content" How does this follow? Are you saying somebody from the BW community needs to volunteer to make a new sidebar that puts the BW content back? I can see where your confusion comes from, so let me see if I can make it more obvious. Firstly, things got moved from the sidebar because they were static. That has little to do with the user contribution, although TLFE's would have stayed there if more got written (not that we're blaming anyone, it's just the staff didn't have time which led to the TLFE's becoming static and hence moved). The PR is a of static information. It's nice information, but it doesn't move, it doesn't change (except for once a month). The new list we have up is more dynamic, since ELO's change constantly. That doesn't mean the names will change constantly, but they will constantly be updated. If we had a choice, we would have had both SC2 and BW rankings up there. However, given that it's not been coded yet (to show both), we had to make a choice between displaying the SC2 rankings and BW rankings in the mean time. Unfortunately for BW, we had to choose the option that would be useful to most members. This should only be temporary though. I assume you guys are fine with that. As far as I can tell, you're not this upset because the BW rankings can't be seen for a short while? The PR has also not been removed, it's become a news feature. I'll be honest with you, I still watch a fair amount of BW but I haven't looked at the PR in months. On the other hand, I read the SC2 Tournament Roundup every time it gets posted. The PR moving to the front page might actually get it more discussion and exposure than it did on the sidebar. The only difference will be it won't be taking up screen space permanently. If we get the ELO rankings added for BW as well, then you will have both the PR and the ELO rankings. The R&S threads I can't comment on, but I know there's been a drive to replace R&S threads with liquipedia pages. I assume the BW section doesn't have the same summary pages yet, which is something user contribution will help with. If those pages exist, I can promise you they will be featured in the same way. Perhaps since there's only really two current BW tournaments remaining (OSL and PL), they might get direct links there. As I said though, the sidebars are still a work in progress and we will be adding things to it. Once again, I assume the BW fans aren't this angry because the links aren't there yet. The comments regarding the user contribution wasn't specifically aimed at the sidebar. The things that got removed from the sidebar got removed due to being static, nothing more or less. The user contribution thing was aimed more at comments complaining about the lack of content aimed at BW fans and the calender being too SC2 focused. Our point was that the only reason this site seems to be focusing on SC2 is because SC2 has more community contributions (no doubt due to it being a considerably larger community). The only two "SC2-exclusive" features on TL at the moment, as far as I can tell, are the TLPD Elo display and the liquipedia links to SC2. However, as we've said, these are works in progress and will hopefully be updated soon. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
Some of us are just upset at the removal of BW from the side bar. Power rank was replaced. The was a BW ranking, that ranking is gone and there is now an SC2 rank. Thats replacement. | ||
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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Gvetd.jpg) | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On August 24 2011 23:24 Daigomi wrote: If we had a choice, we would have had both SC2 and BW rankings up there. However, given that it's not been coded yet (to show both), we had to make a choice between displaying the SC2 rankings and BW rankings in the mean time. Unfortunately for BW, we had to choose the option that would be useful to most members. Why was there a choice here? There's plenty of room for both. Go ahead, take a look, scroll down your browser page. You see how the left page goes further than the right? Do you see how the PR (or ELO) could fit there on the right, and the left would still be longer? Did SC2 users complain about how the PR confused them so much, so it's removal is somehow benefiting the larger community? I really don't see any positives in the PR removal from the front page to either community. It only hurts BW. It's just not cool. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
Despite Plexa's reassurances, TL has become extremely user-unfriendly to BW fans. I can't find BW events on the calendar among the sea of minor SC2 tournaments, I have to dig through menus to find the power rank now (and I can't check its post count)... I would ask for a bw.teamliquid.net, but I'm sure it won't happen. I just hope one day R1CH codes a BW calendar at the very least. And ffs, bring back the power rank. It was taking up room? Bullshit, there's plenty of room on the right side bar. Even if you removed the Replays section on the left bar, it'd still stretch down further than the right bar. Move it to the very bottom of that if you like, but don't remove it. Also, the separate SC2 rankings are a joke, especially having the foreigners 'first' (on the left). If Koreans are better than your foreign heroes then they're better, end of story, what a laugh to give foreigners their own short bus power rank. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
No joke anymore. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
Can we at least have a choice for bw liquipedia ? I'm not even asking for profile preferences, as we've been asking that for TPLD for quite sometimes, I guess I can wait a bit more. TLFE are annoying to find, might want to transfer them in BW general while you're at it (except the two amazing starcraft 2 TLFE). And power rank too maybe... | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=3 Since we BWers spend more time there anyone, that would be a better situation than right now. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 25 2011 01:00 Hinanawi wrote: Playing in the TeamLiquid guild in an MMORPG recently made me realize how out of touch I've become with the demographics of this site, as a BW fan. I remember I would bring up a big Brood War match in guild chat and ask if anyone was watching it, only to get "lol BW? Who still watches that old crap". I was literally the only BW fan in the guild, it was a big shock to me. I guess I'm behind the times with the rapid user shift on TL. Despite Plexa's reassurances, TL has become extremely user-unfriendly to BW fans. I can't find BW events on the calendar among the sea of minor SC2 tournaments, I have to dig through menus to find the power rank now (and I can't check its post count)... I would ask for a bw.teamliquid.net, but I'm sure it won't happen. I just hope one day R1CH codes a BW calendar at the very least. And ffs, bring back the power rank. It was taking up room? Bullshit, there's plenty of room on the right side bar. Even if you removed the Replays section on the left bar, it'd still stretch down further than the right bar. Move it to the very bottom of that if you like, but don't remove it. Also, the separate SC2 rankings are a joke, especially having the foreigners 'first' (on the left). If Koreans are better than your foreign heroes then they're better, end of story, what a laugh to give foreigners their own short bus power rank. Whenever I open the calendar to view a specific day's results, I immediately scroll to the bottom. The calendar is thankfully still arranged in KST so the BW events and the skilled SC2 events are always listed at the bottom of the day. I miss the days when TL was where international fans can follow the Korean proscene. With the new demographics, not only is BW getting marginalized, but I feel like SC2 international is pushed way too hard. As somebody who's not a fan of the minor leagues and college sports, I'm not really interested in second tier talent. I'm hoping they can program the TLPD on the right bar to show both SC2 and BW. Scrubbing Koreans from the SC2 international list being displayed is hilariously biased as well. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
I guess a see-Korean-events-only button might be useful for you? Honestly I'm not seeing the supposed bias. The only imbalance is that the BW elo should be shown next to the SC2 ones (which aren't power ranks, I don't know why people say that they are) and that there should be a line for BW under Liquipedia. I feel like this is selection bias. GSTL has been going on for a long time, and many (many) people have requested SC2 team icons, but it hasn't happened yet. R1CH is just busy. | ||
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Ideas
United States8101 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote: What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote: Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. I'm pretty sure all those "small" foreign sc2 event are added by the organizers because, you know, it helps them get viewership... And that the big one are added by staff members. Thank god I'm very grateful for all the volunteer work that's being done on bw (huge amount of news, power rank etc) by our smaller population. Or other things. Anyway I don't watch the calendar anymore, I go in the bw forum, it's much easier to find what you need there. | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
On August 25 2011 01:00 Hinanawi wrote: Playing in the TeamLiquid guild in an MMORPG recently made me realize how out of touch I've become with the demographics of this site, as a BW fan. I remember I would bring up a big Brood War match in guild chat and ask if anyone was watching it, only to get "lol BW? Who still watches that old crap". I was literally the only BW fan in the guild, it was a big shock to me. I guess I'm behind the times with the rapid user shift on TL. This has happened to me too | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
My life (time) for Aiur (BW) | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote: Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:36 ZoW wrote: The amount of bitterness in this thread is gigantic lol. Can't say I don't feel some myself though, it does seem a bit condescending. With all the bad news recently, and now this I guess people are really at the tipping point (Well, if you look at it that way... it had to happen sometime. Moving on and accepting change is never easy, especially if you were the "top dog", so to speak, for many years. I'm fine with letting "the tipping point" be over some small shit like Team Liquid staff rearranging the sidebar to make it more useful, more usable, and look better in the process. I'm not mad at the BW people for being bitter. I'd probably be bitter as well if SC2 content would be replaced by BW content (and the complaints thread would probably be 90 pages long instead of 9, lol) but eh. People will get over it (on both sides). Lots of the TL staff are BW fans, you guys will definitely not be thrown under the bus, don't worry. On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Couldn't have said it better myself. You may be blunt (while I always try to tread carefully with my wording), but damn if those aren't words of truth right there.Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sited would do given the choice. They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. What the fuck does any of this have to do with proleague being added to the calendar 4 hours before it starts? | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 25 2011 03:26 Brad` wrote: What the fuck does any of this have to do with proleague being added to the calendar 4 hours before it starts? I bet if someone volunteer's to update it faster (and is established as a long time user as most BW fans are), the TL staff might not be against getting some help, or making a way where the calendar submission form has an option for BW, etc. | ||
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Thratur
Canada917 Posts
On August 25 2011 03:28 iCCup.Diamond wrote: I bet if someone volunteer's to update it faster (and is established as a long time user as most BW fans are), the TL staff might not be against getting some help, or making a way where the calendar submission form has an option for BW, etc. I would definitely volunteer to program some customization into this website (see my post last page). It's been a while since I've done some PHP and I only have a professional ASP background in my career, but I could relearn that stuff for the sake of BW. Do I have a chance at applying with my low post count you think? | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. Actually no, that's bullshit. The only thing I'm complaining about is shit that gets taken away, I'm not asking TL to pull content out their arse. "You guys want more sponsored tournaments?" Nope, don't care. "Sick of the iCCup/Game drama?" Nope, don't care. "Sick of no calendar updates?" Nope, it would be nice though. Wouldn't ask TL staff for it though. "Liquipedia out of date?" Don't care. What do you mean the fact TL support BW at all? The only way TL supports BW is allowing people to volunteer to write BW with the knowledge they will make the front page, allowing us to use the calender and letting somebody keep TLPD up to date. You notice the common trend? We're still allowed to volunteer like the rest of TL. Why are you trying to make this sound like some great sacrifice for TL? What, we're taking up webspace and bandwidth I guess? It does not take work from "TL" to maintain the BW section. You make it sound like people who don't want to volunteer time and effort for BW are forced to to maintain the BW section. They aren't. What does take time and effort is taking things away from us. "BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen" This part in particular makes absolutely no sense and seem to be something of your core philosophy. You're saying unless we randomly make new content the stuff we have already will be taken away? Why? How does this track logically? There is no reason the BW tools and databases on this site shouldn't last until Korea dies - a time we have no amount of motivation on our part can change. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
If Roffles is either unable or unwilling to update the calendar I'll do it. User was warned for this post | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 25 2011 03:50 Brad` wrote: Dunno why you bothered to write a multi paragraph response to someone that makes sweeping generalizations about a community he obviously knows nothing about. If Roffles is either unable or unwilling to update the calendar I'll do it. Yea I know a thing or two about the BW community..... | ||
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Ideas
United States8101 Posts
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okum
France5778 Posts
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote: Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. On August 24 2011 23:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hey, you, I will update the calendar the SECOND there is a BW event. I just thought editing the calendar was some upper admin access stuff. I want the calendar updated faster and I want the TLPD updated faster, neither of which "volunteering harder" will solve. The only way to solve that is hire more staff or get the current staff to devote more resources to BW. So, idk, give TTT the calendar job? Maybe the calendar submission system will work wonderfully, I guess we'll find out in October. | ||
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dala
Sweden477 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 25 2011 01:58 Redmark wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't SC2 and BW calendar based on the exact same user-submission mechanism? Probably that's why there are so many international events, because they're more likely to be submitted. I guess a see-Korean-events-only button might be useful for you? Honestly I'm not seeing the supposed bias. The only imbalance is that the BW elo should be shown next to the SC2 ones (which aren't power ranks, I don't know why people say that they are) and that there should be a line for BW under Liquipedia. I feel like this is selection bias. GSTL has been going on for a long time, and many (many) people have requested SC2 team icons, but it hasn't happened yet. R1CH is just busy. Check the top 5 SC2 (International) under TLPD. It goes like this: 1. Mana 2. Stephano 3. Sen 4. Nerchio 5. White-Ra Check the actual database. Top 5 goes like this: 1. Puma 2. MC 3. MMA 4. Mana 5. Stephano | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. what the hell does this have to do with power rank? | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
Our R&S threads are updated. Our Power rank is written every month, with daily discussions. TLFE hasn't, but I had the impression that TL was proud of their articles, plus it was the other thing missing so I guess it got bundled with the other two. Interestingly, guess which major SC2 tournament had an outdated R&S thread on the sidebar for weeks till it was removed? GSL :O Feels like we didn't gain much from removing those things on the right sidebar, and that's not just from a BW perspective. You could even consider the ELO ranking to be unnecessary spoilers. However, Daigomi has hinted at some possible features in the future so I'm not going to pursue that too much, still curious about it though... Calendar stuff can wait, we've lived with it for a while now, and there is a thread for BW events and people offering to do it as well. Ultimately, I don't see why we can't have the Power Rank and R&S links (for both games) on the sidebar. I don't think people would mind if they were below the Polls. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On August 25 2011 03:58 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Yea I know a thing or two about the BW community..... I'm sure you do. On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote: The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. I feel this way as well. TL no longer has a dog in the BW scene yet they have kept it in their website purely out of past and present passion. However you don't seem to have any idea what this threads complaint is about. This thread is about fans being upset at the power rank being removed from a prominent position on the site and being replaced with a subpar SC2 equivalent. Complaints made about the calendar are about it's messiness and difficulty in finding relevant information. A BW only calendar has been suggested. Nobody is complaining about a lack of BW content or events so your tirade about how self-entitled the community is misleading and not true and off topic. | ||
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:51 IntoTheEmo wrote: I don't think most of the BW fans are asking for much. I don't see why people are making it seem like BW fans are waiting for stuff to be done for them. We're not asking for more content, we're wondering why we can't access our content (that's already there) from it's usual spot, especially when it doesn't seem impractical to have it there. I'm also curious to see what SC2 users have gained from this aside from the Liquipedia box. Our R&S threads are updated. Our Power rank is written every month, with daily discussions. TLFE hasn't, but I had the impression that TL was proud of their articles, plus it was the other thing missing so I guess it got bundled with the other two. Interestingly, guess which major SC2 tournament had an outdated R&S thread on the sidebar for weeks till it was removed? GSL :O Feels like we didn't gain much from removing those things on the right sidebar, and that's not just from a BW perspective. You could even consider the ELO ranking to be unnecessary spoilers. However, Daigomi has hinted at some possible features in the future so I'm not going to pursue that too much, still curious about it though... Calendar stuff can wait, we've lived with it for a while now, and there is a thread for BW events and people offering to do it as well. Ultimately, I don't see why we can't have the Power Rank and R&S links (for both games) on the sidebar. I don't think people would mind if they were below the Polls. Make a recent results page on BW liquipedia then. (see the SC2 one if you need model) It's pretty hard to have one for BW when it doesn't exist. :| | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On August 25 2011 05:55 kuroshiroi wrote: I want the calendar updated faster and I want the TLPD updated faster, neither of which "volunteering harder" will solve. The only way to solve that is hire more staff or get the current staff to devote more resources to BW. So, idk, give TTT the calendar job? Maybe the calendar submission system will work wonderfully, I guess we'll find out in October. The limiting factor are the volunteers, I assure you. We have a giant yellow bar across the top of TL telling us how many pending events are waiting to be approved. It's at zero right now (like it almost always is). | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On August 25 2011 03:50 Brad` wrote: If Roffles is either unable or unwilling to update the calendar I'll do it. Awesome. Use this thread to add all BW events to the queue. Please make sure all your submissions are consistent with past formatting. Thanks. http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/submit.php | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:02 ShadeR wrote: I'm sure you do. I feel this way as well. TL no longer has a dog in the BW scene yet they have kept it in their website purely out of past and present passion. However you don't seem to have any idea what this threads complaint is about. This thread is about fans being upset at the power rank being removed from a prominent position on the site and being replaced with a subpar SC2 equivalent. Complaints made about the calendar are about it's messiness and difficulty in finding relevant information. A BW only calendar has been suggested. Nobody is complaining about a lack of BW content or events so your tirade about how self-entitled the community is misleading and not true and off topic. I think the reason it's gone off topic is because the Power Rank thing has been addressed already. The Power Rank will be made into a proper TL news article while the TLPD Elo rankings will be enabled for both SC2 and BW. The only reason the BW rankings aren't up yet is because a way to swap between the SC2 and BW rankings hasn't been coded yet. As the sidebar not having BW rankings for a short time is pretty much a non-issue, the conversation has devolved into a criticism of the diminishing role that BW is playing on TL, which is where Diamond's post comes in. Finally, whether the rankings are "subpar" or not is a matter of what you're looking for in them, but the TL staff agrees that the power rank is more of an editorial/discussion thread, and less of a permanent piece of information to display. Most of the comments here, even by the BW fans, seem to agree, as people seem to mostly miss being able to see if any new discussion has occurred. As it is an editorial thread primarily for discussion, there's no reason why it should take preference over any other "hot topics" that people discuss on TL by getting a massive part of the sidebar dedicated to it. It should be on the front page, with all the other editorial threads people like to discuss, and perhaps get a sticky in the BW forum. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
I'm personally saddened by the lack of Power Rank (it was the first thing I ever read when I came to TL) and having it gone just seems weird. I can fully understand the decision, though I still feel like I lost a bit of what made TL special for me. | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:05 Harem wrote: Make a recent results page on BW liquipedia then. (see the SC2 one if you need model) It's pretty hard to have one for BW when it doesn't exist. :| Nope, not asking for that Premier SC2 tournaments link, it's only been a day gone and people have forgotten the R&S list that was shared by both games? Shinhan Bank PL 10-11 Jin Air OSL FXO KoTH Iccup Korean Weekly #6 etc. Ya, don't get how you got that I wanted a BW equivalent recent results page. All the major Korean tournament R&S, short and simple. Forgot to add as well, it only takes a quick glance at the BW forums to see why people are getting extra upset about this, if there was a reverse Ee Han Timing to do this, you couldn't have picked a better time. What was the hurry to remove all those things from the sidebar when all that was added were the ELO ranks and Liquipedia box? Just curious. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
edit: Also, what is the method we go about editing BW TLPD? I never knew normal users could affect it. I'm a very frequent live watcher and have many times found myself eyeing TLPD waiting for it to be updated. | ||
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:46 IntoTheEmo wrote: Nope, not asking for that Premier SC2 tournaments link, it's only been a day gone and people have forgotten the R&S list that was shared by both games? Shinhan Bank PL 10-11 Jin Air OSL FXO KoTH Iccup Korean Weekly #6 etc. Ya, don't get how you got that I wanted a BW equivalent recent results page. All the major Korean tournament R&S, short and simple. Forgot to add as well, it only takes a quick glance at the BW forums to see why people are getting extra upset about this, if there was a reverse Ee Han Timing to do this, you couldn't have picked a better time. What was the hurry to remove all those things from the sidebar when all that was added were the ELO ranks and Liquipedia box? Just curious. We're replacing R&S threads with liquipedia equivalent as explained earlier in thread. On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote: So far as the recent results go, we'd like to move to a liquipedia oriented system - and hence for BW we'd need the pages up to date (afaik the jinair one is a week out?). Once we're satisfied with it I'm sure R1CH will add it. On August 24 2011 23:24 Daigomi wrote: The R&S threads I can't comment on, but I know there's been a drive to replace R&S threads with liquipedia pages. I assume the BW section doesn't have the same summary pages yet, which is something user contribution will help with. If those pages exist, I can promise you they will be featured in the same way. Perhaps since there's only really two current BW tournaments remaining (OSL and PL), they might get direct links there. As I said though, the sidebars are still a work in progress and we will be adding things to it. Once again, I assume the BW fans aren't this angry because the links aren't there yet. On August 25 2011 08:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Does anyone know where they release broodwar event dates? I can't read korean so I can't really navigate fomos for it, so is there some static place where I could get the gist of upcoming events so that I can upload them to Chill's link? I'm a very scheduled person and can check daily to submit new events so they're always up well in advance, I'm just not sure where to find it. http://www.fomos.kr/dal/dal.html?mode=dal is one place to get them. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On August 25 2011 08:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Does anyone know where they release broodwar event dates? I can't read korean so I can't really navigate fomos for it, so is there some static place where I could get the gist of upcoming events so that I can upload them to Chill's link? I'm a very scheduled person and can check daily to submit new events so they're always up well in advance, I'm just not sure where to find it. edit: Also, what is the method we go about editing BW TLPD? I never knew normal users could affect it. http://www.e-sports.or.kr/KeSPA07.HTML#rank you can see the calendar on the right, green are days with games and you can click them. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On August 25 2011 08:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: Okay, now aside from my TLPD editing question, I have one more thing to ask. In Chill's event submission form, it says it must have an associated TL stream, but as some of you know, BW streams are a bit hit and miss depending on who's available, (GTR, Kiante, Rawr, Nanashin, Hirosue, etc). Can I still put in the event or should I contact the perennial streamers and see if any of them are dedicated to streaming it? the streamers can select the event from a list (if its added to the calendar) when they want to stream so you'd just want to focus on having the event in the calendar, they will do the rest | ||
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Ideas
United States8101 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:25 Daigomi wrote: I think the reason it's gone off topic is because the Power Rank thing has been addressed already. The Power Rank will be made into a proper TL news article while the TLPD Elo rankings will be enabled for both SC2 and BW. The only reason the BW rankings aren't up yet is because a way to swap between the SC2 and BW rankings hasn't been coded yet. I actually am not sure I like the ELO ranking thing. I don't know how much of an issue it is for SC2, but having the top 5 ELO on the front page means that it could mean unavoidable spoilers for matches (lets say JD and flash are in another final and flash is #1 ELO and JD #2, and then suddenly it swaps). I mean it sounds like a good idea on paper (having the top 5 ELO of each game on front page) but it could really fuck with people that don't want a match spoiled but couldn't watch it live. Are you guys definitely going to stick with the ELO listings on main page? edit - oh i just realized the BW script I DLd got rid of the ELO rankings lol | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On August 25 2011 08:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: Okay, now aside from my TLPD editing question, I have one more thing to ask. In Chill's event submission form, it says it must have an associated TL stream, but as some of you know, BW streams are a bit hit and miss depending on who's available, (GTR, Kiante, Rawr, Nanashin, Hirosue, etc). Can I still put in the event or should I contact the perennial streamers and see if any of them are dedicated to streaming it? That's just a general warning - don't put an event up unless there is going to be a stream. For large events like this you don't have to worry about it. The point of that warning is don't add "ISL Day 7" if you don't have a confirmed streamer for it. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
TLFE and Power Rank pretty much all of our staff is in agreement that these menus are too static to keep around in our menubar. They fit our site much better when they are news items. TLFE's are too rare. If they happened more often then it would make more sense to keep them around in the menubar. But as Plexa explained already; cutting TLFE from the menu bar has been an old discussion on staff. It was kept around because some staff thought we could increase the frequency of the articles. Turned out we couldn't and thus it got removed. For one TLFE article every 3 months the frontpage works much better than a menu bar. Power rank is basically a once a month article that after release stays static. As such we feel it fits much better in Featured News. It will be a great article to have in our news, but it is not enough reason for its own place in the menubar. The removal of TLFE and PR had nothing to do with BW or SC2, but everything with how to make proper use of our space and a site-vision of what we should use our menubars for. However where we have made a mistake is with the implementation of the TLPD rankings, and the new Liquipedia menubar. These specifics were not discussed enough internally and unfortunately we messed up regarding some issues. The biggest mistake is that Liquipedia does not have a BW option. This is inexcusable and will be fixed as soon as possible. It is also up for debate what we will do with the content of the TLPD bar. A major concern right now is having two SC2 rankings but the exclusion of a BW ranking. To me this feels really weird. This will probably not stay this way. We are also concerned about the rankings carrying potential spoilers. At this point regarding the TLPD content anything is possible. It could get a BW ranking added, it could have all rankings removed, or we could come up with a solution where we can keep the rankings but somehow avoid spoilers. Another mistake is not putting out a staff written newspost regarding all this. Once we figure everything out hopefully the opportunity will still be there to make a newspost about it. For those saying TSL is static too: you are right and this will probably be removed as well. Poll will likely be re-positioned to the middle of the frontpage (home) so that everyone sees it once when they visit TL.net, instead of having to look at it constantly. Anyway my apologies if some of our mistakes upset you. We will try to fix them asap but everyone is at Raleigh currently so it may have to wait till after MLG. | ||
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potatoedoughnut
United States334 Posts
1) Sad to see PR gone from sidebar 2) Thanks TTT for doing calendar updates <3 3) Can't we all just get along? | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
 Thank you for innovating the site, I appreciate TL and all the work that goes into it. | ||
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mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On August 25 2011 13:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: ... Now this is the kind of explanation that makes me proud of being a member of TL. I'm confident you'll work out a good solution. Have fun at MLG! | ||
nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
I hope so. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:15 Chill wrote: The limiting factor are the volunteers, I assure you. We have a giant yellow bar across the top of TL telling us how many pending events are waiting to be approved. It's at zero right now (like it almost always is). Cool. Looking forward to October then Also, thanks Nazgul for that clarification. It should have been posted one day earlier but at least it's there now. I hope you guys understand why we were upset, since the changes were really weird and looked fairly hostile towards BW. | ||
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Crais
Canada2136 Posts
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integral
United States3156 Posts
I see 13 different staff/volunteers in this topic -- 3 administrators, 2 moderators, 2 banlings, 5 writers, and 1 TLPD contributor. This sort of staff transparency and involvement is one of many reasons why Teamliquid is fucking baller and hands down the best ESPORTS website in the world. The passion indicated by the community here is obviously another. We're all on the same team, guys. | ||
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hauton
Hong Kong743 Posts
Putting aside the volunteerism for now, I think something like this, removing the Power Rankings without any communication until TTT had to ask, doesn't send the best message. Compound it with previous changes like the defaulting of TLPD and Liquipedia to SC2, we as BW fans really feel like we've become second-class citizens. If that's the case, then OK - I can't argue with the demographics, but at least have the decency to be forthcoming about it. I mean, at this rate, you might as well not have a teamliquid.net/sc2 because the regular page is starting to look not much different in all honesty. edit: I'm sure someone has already asked before, but would a BW-only version of teamliquid.net/sc2/ be feasible? At this point I almost feel like it's for the best - the divide has only gotten worse, not better and I think the ill will is pretty incurable now. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:22 hauton wrote: To be honest, I think most of us BW fans are just upset that TL is being redesigned piecemeal in a way that mostly, if not entirely, favours SC2. To say that TL doesn't owe BW anything is pretty cold-hearted - Team Liquid was built on the foundation of Brood War, if you really think they could've turned their backs the moment SC2 was released without any outrage, you're fooling yourself. Lets not pretend that it's some kind of one-way street either - TL benefits from continued BW fan support, and vice-versa. Nobody's "doing anyone a favour", the definition of a community is this give and take, this reciprocal relationship where everyone benefits. Putting aside the volunteerism for now, I think something like this, removing the Power Rankings without any communication until TTT had to ask, doesn't send the best message. Compound it with previous changes like the defaulting of TLPD and Liquipedia to SC2, we as BW fans really feel like we've become second-class citizens. If that's the case, then OK - I can't argue with the demographics, but at least have the decency to be forthcoming about it. I mean, at this rate, you might as well not have a teamliquid.net/sc2 because the regular page is starting to look not much different in all honesty. edit: I'm sure someone has already asked before, but would a BW-only version of teamliquid.net/sc2/ be feasible? At this point I almost feel like it's for the best - the divide has only gotten worse, not better and I think the ill will is pretty incurable now. They've already said they'll change both TLPF and Liquipedia sections to include BW. That's really the only imbalanced thing I can see. Did you read Nazgul's post? | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
Thanks for you clarifying post Nazgul! | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:25 Daigomi wrote: It [PR] should be on the front page, with all the other editorial threads people like to discuss, and perhaps get a sticky in the BW forum. Could someone find a way to actually get this done? I am very disappointed that the PR was removed from side-bar, but it's been done and you guys aren't budging, I accept that. But you still have inadvertently crippled discussion in the PR comments thread. Many people who normally don't go to the PR often used to do an impulse-click on the PR comments when something big happened (like Friday's results) and add their discussion. Now this isn't going on anymore. These impulse-PR commentators aren't gonna click "Features, PR, comments" anymore. Mortality, TTT, myself, etc. will do this, but there's gonna be a lot of discussion missing because of this change. So please, move the comments thread to the BW forum. Instead of having it in: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=3 Simply have it in: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=6 Us Broodwar fans spend much of our TL time there, of course. So this makes it easy for both the PR regulars and impulse-PRers to easily find and respond to the comments. Thank you for your consideration. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On August 25 2011 13:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Couple things to say here. First of all this implementation has been done in a less than optimal way. There have been a lot of internal discussions about the sidebar, but some of the implementation has happened in a rush and was not done properly. TLFE and Power Rank pretty much all of our staff is in agreement that these menus are too static to keep around in our menubar. They fit our site much better when they are news items. TLFE's are too rare. If they happened more often then it would make more sense to keep them around in the menubar. But as Plexa explained already; cutting TLFE from the menu bar has been an old discussion on staff. It was kept around because some staff thought we could increase the frequency of the articles. Turned out we couldn't and thus it got removed. For one TLFE article every 3 months the frontpage works much better than a menu bar. Power rank is basically a once a month article that after release stays static. As such we feel it fits much better in Featured News. It will be a great article to have in our news, but it is not enough reason for its own place in the menubar. The removal of TLFE and PR had nothing to do with BW or SC2, but everything with how to make proper use of our space and a site-vision of what we should use our menubars for. However where we have made a mistake is with the implementation of the TLPD rankings, and the new Liquipedia menubar. These specifics were not discussed enough internally and unfortunately we messed up regarding some issues. The biggest mistake is that Liquipedia does not have a BW option. This is inexcusable and will be fixed as soon as possible. It is also up for debate what we will do with the content of the TLPD bar. A major concern right now is having two SC2 rankings but the exclusion of a BW ranking. To me this feels really weird. This will probably not stay this way. We are also concerned about the rankings carrying potential spoilers. At this point regarding the TLPD content anything is possible. It could get a BW ranking added, it could have all rankings removed, or we could come up with a solution where we can keep the rankings but somehow avoid spoilers. Another mistake is not putting out a staff written newspost regarding all this. Once we figure everything out hopefully the opportunity will still be there to make a newspost about it. For those saying TSL is static too: you are right and this will probably be removed as well. Poll will likely be re-positioned to the middle of the frontpage (home) so that everyone sees it once when they visit TL.net, instead of having to look at it constantly. Anyway my apologies if some of our mistakes upset you. We will try to fix them asap but everyone is at Raleigh currently so it may have to wait till after MLG. Great post, I just want to add that I would also love to see BW and SC2 ranks on the right and that there are many people like myself who, while we may mainly follow Sc2, don't want to see all BW content disappear; I'm still interested in how Flash and co are doing, even if I don't regularly watch BW streams. I also think it's time that we just had one combined Sc2 ranking, now that there is so much crossover between Korea and international Sc2 it seems pointless to keep the rankings separate. Failing that, if we do keep the rankings separate then removing the Koreans from the international Sc2 rankings is kind of dumb in my opinion, it means Koreans who focus on international tournaments rather than local ones basically can never be ranked even if they're the best players in the world, this is ridiculous since the point of rankings is to show who is the best in the world. | ||
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
I imagine elements like PowerRank, Liquipedia SC2, Liquipedia BW, TLPD Universal search, TLPD default database, TLPD SC2 International search, TLPD SC2 Korea, TLPD BW Korea, SC2 Top(5) nationality dependent, SC2 Top(5) nationality independent, BW top(5) korea and - possibly - etc make for easy to build "blocks" of code and easy to set parameters in the profile. Even with sorting. Unless TeamLiquid.net is coded badly (which I guess is not the case) it's easy to do in few hours and even I could do it as a volunteer (even as I'm mostly stalker here - it's my 21st post and yet I visit TL for like 2 years now, nearly daily). | ||
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hauton
Hong Kong743 Posts
On August 26 2011 22:54 Redmark wrote: They've already said they'll change both TLPF and Liquipedia sections to include BW. That's really the only imbalanced thing I can see. Did you read Nazgul's post? Yeah I did. As far as I know, the TLPD defaulting to SC2 was fully intentional and has been so for months. Relegating Power Rank because it was static doesn't seem to make much sense when you still have a dedicated TSL section where the last entry was a hype topic from May. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On August 30 2011 15:09 hauton wrote: Yeah I did. As far as I know, the TLPD defaulting to SC2 was fully intentional and has been so for months. Relegating Power Rank because it was static doesn't seem to make much sense when you still have a dedicated TSL section where the last entry was a hype topic from May. If you actually did read my post you would know that the TSL section and poll will be removed as well. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
I guess Starcraft 2 fans love them though. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19057 Posts
On September 07 2011 09:17 meegrean wrote: I honestly stopped caring about the Power Rank many months ago... Actually, just about everything on the right sidebar too. I guess Starcraft 2 fans love them though. How dare you. Streams are cool. Liquipedia is awesome. To a lesser extend things like the poll and TLPD are useful sometimes too. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On August 29 2011 17:43 nimdil wrote: There seems to be a bit of controversy. Why can't right column be customized? I imagine elements like PowerRank, Liquipedia SC2, Liquipedia BW, TLPD Universal search, TLPD default database, TLPD SC2 International search, TLPD SC2 Korea, TLPD BW Korea, SC2 Top(5) nationality dependent, SC2 Top(5) nationality independent, BW top(5) korea and - possibly - etc make for easy to build "blocks" of code and easy to set parameters in the profile. Even with sorting. Unless TeamLiquid.net is coded badly (which I guess is not the case) it's easy to do in few hours and even I could do it as a volunteer (even as I'm mostly stalker here - it's my 21st post and yet I visit TL for like 2 years now, nearly daily). I would imagine it has less to do with how well TL is coded and more to do with the age of the site. If it's core structure was created almost 10 years ago, it might be difficult to pull apart different modules. Given how often this suggestion gets raised, I am sure that if it was so simple R1CH would have done it by now. But maybe he just needs more hands? (Unlikely giving his wizardiness) | ||
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purgerinho
Croatia919 Posts
2) there was always someone BIG who would lose (jangbi > flash, jaedongs fall, fantasy is hot) and bursts would happened makes no sense to do it and it is so sad, really sad that you done that and gave so funny explanation to do it. TSL is not necessary anymore and it could be removed first. So, if we look Plexas unlogical explanation of removing PR I must ask: when we can expect removal of replays and broodwar from left side? I mean, it uses too much room and bursts are only when some finals are played and it is every few months or so, right? And who watches BW replays anymore, right? | ||
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
On September 07 2011 15:09 Probulous wrote: I would imagine it has less to do with how well TL is coded and more to do with the age of the site. If it's core structure was created almost 10 years ago, it might be difficult to pull apart different modules. Given how often this suggestion gets raised, I am sure that if it was so simple R1CH would have done it by now. But maybe he just needs more hands? (Unlikely giving his wizardiness) You may be correct. But it may - just as well - be that the administrators don't want customizable right column. Actually there are not that many websites where you can customize layout of the essential part of it. Any at all? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5558 Posts
Sorry, but you're explanations seem like empty promises. ;/ | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5558 Posts
GSL Finals MLG Orlando IPL3 Finals Blizzcon SC2 Invite NASL Season 2 DreamHack Valencia OSL Finals Is that too much to ask for? | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
Fantasy JangBi Else I agree that your suggestion is desirable. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 07 2011 21:13 purgerinho wrote: Call it unlogical if you wish, but that is what we are striving for on the right. Things like TSL should have been removed by now.1) PR always had bursts of activity at the end and beginning of the month 2) there was always someone BIG who would lose (jangbi > flash, jaedongs fall, fantasy is hot) and bursts would happened makes no sense to do it and it is so sad, really sad that you done that and gave so funny explanation to do it. TSL is not necessary anymore and it could be removed first. So, if we look Plexas unlogical explanation of removing PR I must ask: when we can expect removal of replays and broodwar from left side? I mean, it uses too much room and bursts are only when some finals are played and it is every few months or so, right? And who watches BW replays anymore, right? EDIT: I don't know why OSL finals were left off, but if it were added my bet is that there would be an sc2 vs bw argument in the discussion. Poll is another thing that needs to go. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 10 2011 18:15 maybenexttime wrote: TSL bar still not removed, OSL R&S thread not there, even though it's kept up to date, no OSL in the latest poll, even though it literally begs to be put there (the final is next week, it has a fucking Protoss in it). Sorry, but you're explanations seem like empty promises. ;/ Succeeded in getting us all to shut up, so i suppose it worked out alright. | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Because seeing MVP out of nowhere at the 2nd place of it instantly spoils to anyone the GSL result. T_T | ||
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
GJ TL for removing TSL as promised. Now - can anyone explain if customizable right column is acceptable/possible or not? cheers | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On September 12 2011 16:23 nimdil wrote: You see. Cat with a bag and the TSL is gone from the right column GJ TL for removing TSL as promised. Now - can anyone explain if customizable right column is acceptable/possible or not? cheers Assume it's not possible. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5558 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
Can I assume it's possible to know why? If it's because TLAF logo could possibly end up being too far away from the top of the page, than I think it's an issue as solvable as understandable. I imagine it's not because of the extra CPU usage as - the way I see it - it's not that much. Curious here, really. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On September 13 2011 22:08 nimdil wrote: Can I assume it's possible to know why? If it's because TLAF logo could possibly end up being too far away from the top of the page, than I think it's an issue as solvable as understandable. I imagine it's not because of the extra CPU usage as - the way I see it - it's not that much. Curious here, really. Assume it's too much work for our developers. They don't have the resources (time). | ||
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
On September 15 2011 06:25 Chill wrote: Assume it's too much work for our developers. They don't have the resources (time). Can I donate my time? I have skills | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
Also, <3 flamewheel.  JangBi #1! | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:01 flamewheel wrote: So... I wrote a new Power Rank and it isn't in Feature News, Community News, Spotlight, or even Brood War General. Cool I'm going to go check it out now. | ||
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gondolin
France332 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:01 flamewheel wrote: So... I wrote a new Power Rank and it isn't in Feature News, Community News, Spotlight, or even Brood War General. Damn, I only managed to find the CBNC section :-( | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
I wouldn't have even known if I didn't click this thread. | ||
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
On September 19 2011 01:58 gondolin wrote: Damn, I only managed to find the CBNC section :-( i had the same issue ¬¬" until i tried here >>> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/power-rank | ||
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gondolin
France332 Posts
On September 19 2011 02:38 soujiro_ wrote: i had the same issue ¬¬" until i tried here >>> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/power-rank Ohhhh thanks, I am stupid, I knew you could get access to older kespa/power ranks from TLPD, I completely forgot to use it for the new one... | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4727 Posts
I actually assume this has only been an oversight until now, but it really should be fixed as soon as possible. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:01 flamewheel wrote: So... I wrote a new Power Rank and it isn't in Feature News, Community News, Spotlight, or even Brood War General. Thanks for letting us know that you wrote a new one Talk to me, wax or HB about it. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On September 19 2011 22:13 Plexa wrote: Thanks for letting us know that you wrote a new one Talk to me, wax or HB about it. Yeah assumed the change was already implemented from your post a month ago. Talked to Wax about it. | ||
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Ghostface_Killa
United States168 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
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pvzvt
Israel2097 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
GIVE IT BACK! | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
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