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On August 24 2011 23:24 Daigomi wrote:
If we had a choice, we would have had both SC2 and BW rankings up there. However, given that it's not been coded yet (to show both), we had to make a choice between displaying the SC2 rankings and BW rankings in the mean time. Unfortunately for BW, we had to choose the option that would be useful to most members.
Why was there a choice here? There's plenty of room for both. Go ahead, take a look, scroll down your browser page. You see how the left page goes further than the right? Do you see how the PR (or ELO) could fit there on the right, and the left would still be longer?
Did SC2 users complain about how the PR confused them so much, so it's removal is somehow benefiting the larger community? I really don't see any positives in the PR removal from the front page to either community. It only hurts BW.
It's just not cool.
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Playing in the TeamLiquid guild in an MMORPG recently made me realize how out of touch I've become with the demographics of this site, as a BW fan. I remember I would bring up a big Brood War match in guild chat and ask if anyone was watching it, only to get "lol BW? Who still watches that old crap". I was literally the only BW fan in the guild, it was a big shock to me. I guess I'm behind the times with the rapid user shift on TL.
Despite Plexa's reassurances, TL has become extremely user-unfriendly to BW fans. I can't find BW events on the calendar among the sea of minor SC2 tournaments, I have to dig through menus to find the power rank now (and I can't check its post count)...
I would ask for a bw.teamliquid.net, but I'm sure it won't happen. I just hope one day R1CH codes a BW calendar at the very least.
And ffs, bring back the power rank. It was taking up room? Bullshit, there's plenty of room on the right side bar. Even if you removed the Replays section on the left bar, it'd still stretch down further than the right bar. Move it to the very bottom of that if you like, but don't remove it. Also, the separate SC2 rankings are a joke, especially having the foreigners 'first' (on the left). If Koreans are better than your foreign heroes then they're better, end of story, what a laugh to give foreigners their own short bus power rank.
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Remember when the SC2 Power Ranking was a joke on April 1st?
No joke anymore.
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Lol.
Can we at least have a choice for bw liquipedia ?
I'm not even asking for profile preferences, as we've been asking that for TPLD for quite sometimes, I guess I can wait a bit more.
TLFE are annoying to find, might want to transfer them in BW general while you're at it (except the two amazing starcraft 2 TLFE). And power rank too maybe...
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Although I'd still prefer the PR to be on the right side in all its full glory... it's better to have the comments be in BW General than Polls & Liquibet:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=3
Since we BWers spend more time there anyone, that would be a better situation than right now.
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On August 25 2011 01:00 Hinanawi wrote:
Playing in the TeamLiquid guild in an MMORPG recently made me realize how out of touch I've become with the demographics of this site, as a BW fan. I remember I would bring up a big Brood War match in guild chat and ask if anyone was watching it, only to get "lol BW? Who still watches that old crap". I was literally the only BW fan in the guild, it was a big shock to me. I guess I'm behind the times with the rapid user shift on TL.
Despite Plexa's reassurances, TL has become extremely user-unfriendly to BW fans. I can't find BW events on the calendar among the sea of minor SC2 tournaments, I have to dig through menus to find the power rank now (and I can't check its post count)...
I would ask for a bw.teamliquid.net, but I'm sure it won't happen. I just hope one day R1CH codes a BW calendar at the very least.
And ffs, bring back the power rank. It was taking up room? Bullshit, there's plenty of room on the right side bar. Even if you removed the Replays section on the left bar, it'd still stretch down further than the right bar. Move it to the very bottom of that if you like, but don't remove it. Also, the separate SC2 rankings are a joke, especially having the foreigners 'first' (on the left). If Koreans are better than your foreign heroes then they're better, end of story, what a laugh to give foreigners their own short bus power rank.
Whenever I open the calendar to view a specific day's results, I immediately scroll to the bottom. The calendar is thankfully still arranged in KST so the BW events and the skilled SC2 events are always listed at the bottom of the day.
I miss the days when TL was where international fans can follow the Korean proscene. With the new demographics, not only is BW getting marginalized, but I feel like SC2 international is pushed way too hard. As somebody who's not a fan of the minor leagues and college sports, I'm not really interested in second tier talent.
I'm hoping they can program the TLPD on the right bar to show both SC2 and BW. Scrubbing Koreans from the SC2 international list being displayed is hilariously biased as well.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't SC2 and BW calendar based on the exact same user-submission mechanism? Probably that's why there are so many international events, because they're more likely to be submitted.
I guess a see-Korean-events-only button might be useful for you?
Honestly I'm not seeing the supposed bias. The only imbalance is that the BW elo should be shown next to the SC2 ones (which aren't power ranks, I don't know why people say that they are) and that there should be a line for BW under Liquipedia. I feel like this is selection bias. GSTL has been going on for a long time, and many (many) people have requested SC2 team icons, but it hasn't happened yet. R1CH is just busy.
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I really dont want BW ELO listings. that could just be really easy spoilers if I can't watch everything live. honestly im surprised no SC2 fans complained about that yet.
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Calgary25954 Posts
On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here.
Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself.
Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you.
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On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:
Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself.
Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you.
I'm pretty sure all those "small" foreign sc2 event are added by the organizers because, you know, it helps them get viewership... And that the big one are added by staff members.
Thank god I'm very grateful for all the volunteer work that's being done on bw (huge amount of news, power rank etc) by our smaller population. Or other things.
Anyway I don't watch the calendar anymore, I go in the bw forum, it's much easier to find what you need there.
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The amount of bitterness in this thread is gigantic lol. Can't say I don't feel some myself though, it does seem a bit condescending. With all the bad news recently, and now this I guess people are really at the tipping point 
On August 25 2011 01:00 Hinanawi wrote:
Playing in the TeamLiquid guild in an MMORPG recently made me realize how out of touch I've become with the demographics of this site, as a BW fan. I remember I would bring up a big Brood War match in guild chat and ask if anyone was watching it, only to get "lol BW? Who still watches that old crap". I was literally the only BW fan in the guild, it was a big shock to me. I guess I'm behind the times with the rapid user shift on TL.
This has happened to me too
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It's either stay resigned to the apparent fate of Broodwar or actually start working to fight against an inevitable end. I dunno about you guys but I know what Fenix would have done (actually, he did it... twice).
My life (time) for Aiur (BW)
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I keep scrolling down the page looking for a Power Rank that isn't there. Even though I didn't post much in it any more I still liked to read the new comments. This is going to take a while to get used to.
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On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you.
Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it.
You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit.
The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end.
The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it.
Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen.
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On August 25 2011 02:36 ZoW wrote:The amount of bitterness in this thread is gigantic lol. Can't say I don't feel some myself though, it does seem a bit condescending. With all the bad news recently, and now this I guess people are really at the tipping point (
Well, if you look at it that way... it had to happen sometime. Moving on and accepting change is never easy, especially if you were the "top dog", so to speak, for many years.
I'm fine with letting "the tipping point" be over some small shit like Team Liquid staff rearranging the sidebar to make it more useful, more usable, and look better in the process.
I'm not mad at the BW people for being bitter. I'd probably be bitter as well if SC2 content would be replaced by BW content (and the complaints thread would probably be 90 pages long instead of 9, lol) but eh. People will get over it (on both sides).
Lots of the TL staff are BW fans, you guys will definitely not be thrown under the bus, don't worry.
On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sited would do given the choice. They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. Couldn't have said it better myself. You may be blunt (while I always try to tread carefully with my wording), but damn if those aren't words of truth right there.
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On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with proleague being added to the calendar 4 hours before it starts?
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On August 25 2011 03:26 Brad` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. What the fuck does any of this have to do with proleague being added to the calendar 4 hours before it starts?
I bet if someone volunteer's to update it faster (and is established as a long time user as most BW fans are), the TL staff might not be against getting some help, or making a way where the calendar submission form has an option for BW, etc.
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On August 25 2011 03:28 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 03:26 Brad` wrote:On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen. What the fuck does any of this have to do with proleague being added to the calendar 4 hours before it starts? I bet if someone volunteer's to update it faster (and is established as a long time user as most BW fans are), the TL staff might not be against getting some help, or making a way where the calendar submission form has an option for BW, etc.
I would definitely volunteer to program some customization into this website (see my post last page). It's been a while since I've done some PHP and I only have a professional ASP background in my career, but I could relearn that stuff for the sake of BW.
Do I have a chance at applying with my low post count you think?
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On August 25 2011 02:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 02:09 Chill wrote:On August 24 2011 21:13 kuroshiroi wrote:On August 24 2011 18:55 Plexa wrote:EDIT: This is probably somewhat relevant. On August 17 2011 02:29 Chill wrote:
BW zealots are getting annoying here, frankly. Instead of looking at it like "The staff no longer care about BW but they should!" why don't you take the approach of "The staff no longer care about BW, we need some community members here to stand up and help support it."
I can't speak for all staff since there are tons who still watch and love BW. But they're all veterans of the site. They've put their time in updating BW for years and now that it's being dwarfed by SC2, it's hard to keep grinding out the effort.
So if some new people want to step up and help out, do it please. Stop whining about everything and help out. Perhaps it's a bit blunt, but the message is very true. Over the years everything we've done has been built out of passion and dedication towards the game we love. With SC2 a lot of the staff are overburdened tending to their needs and are simply unable to dedicate any more time contributing towards the BW scene (but a lot of the staff still watch BW regularly). What would be ideal is if people came on board and contributed some awesome content. Sad that TLFE is essentially dead? Write something and send it to one of our editors if you think its TLFE standard. Want results on the sidebar? Make sure liquipedia is up to date and we can get it there. It's just a matter of sitting down and doing things for the game. I know its a lot of work and it's pretty different from being spoonfed like most of you are used to, but if you want TL to continue to have strong BW support then we really need people to step up and help us. We can barely cover SC2 let alone BW. What the hell are you talking about? I thought the majority of staff were volunteers? Are you guys getting paid to do SC2 stuff only and that's why nobody has time for BW? If that's the case, hire some unpaid volunteers to focus exclusively on BW. I'm sure there are a bunch of people who'd be willing. Make a thread/news/whatever, asking for these volunteers, hire them and then the problem of lack of staff that cares about BW has been solved. The bystander effect is extremely powerful. I, for one, am tired of never seeing BW events in the calendar till the day before and I'm tired of having to wait up to 12-18 hours before seeing liquipedia updated because afaik only one person is working on those things right now, Antoine? I saw the "submit your event" thread by Chill but that is a really stupid way around the problem, imao, that will likely result in massive duplicate submissions and extra work. Just hire people to add these events from the BW community and most of the whining will likely disappear. I'll even approve of the PR being gone from the sidebar if we get the BW ELO equivalent like SC2 has now. Because as it looks right now, you replaced the PR with the SC2 ranking. It may not have been your ultimate intention but it looks really, really bad to us "BW zealots". You should have waited till R1CH had the BW ranking coded too before removing the PR. That would have eliminated much of this whining. We lost the PR and gained nothing in return. "I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Jean-Luc Picard Well, we won't make you pay for anything but I think we've definitely reached a line here. Lol you're a huge asshole. TL staff are all volunteers, but you aren't satisfied with our volunteering effort anymore. So fucking volunteer yourself. Guess what? The "stupid solution with duplicate of effort" is how literally every SC2 event gets added to the calendar. Guess they volunteer harder than you. Chill is right. The BW scene is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and don't want to do shit for it. You guys want more sponsored tournaments? Get off your ass and organize them. Sick of the iCCup/Game drama? Get up and organize a tournament and make Game obsolete. Sick of no calendar updates? Volunteer. Liquipedia out of date? Update that shit. The BW scene right now is the most self entitled community I have ever seen, and it's a shame. I remember when iCCup had 20+ people applying a day when I joined, and MAYBE 1 a week when I left (for BW). We all know that TL was built on BW, but things change and this is one. You guys are not pulling your end. The fact that TL supports BW at all anymore is above and beyond what most sites would do given the choice (by choice I mean focusing only on SC2 and cutting all BW support). They STILL continue to support it, so if you want to see the coverage and things get better then get up and do it. Edit: Also you guys are not entitled to full support from the whole site for all time. You say "we lost something and gained nothing in return." That's what happens when a game is dying, you get less and less support. Eventually as much as it sucks (years from now), BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen.
Actually no, that's bullshit. The only thing I'm complaining about is shit that gets taken away, I'm not asking TL to pull content out their arse.
"You guys want more sponsored tournaments?" Nope, don't care.
"Sick of the iCCup/Game drama?" Nope, don't care.
"Sick of no calendar updates?" Nope, it would be nice though. Wouldn't ask TL staff for it though.
"Liquipedia out of date?" Don't care.
What do you mean the fact TL support BW at all? The only way TL supports BW is allowing people to volunteer to write BW with the knowledge they will make the front page, allowing us to use the calender and letting somebody keep TLPD up to date. You notice the common trend? We're still allowed to volunteer like the rest of TL. Why are you trying to make this sound like some great sacrifice for TL? What, we're taking up webspace and bandwidth I guess?
It does not take work from "TL" to maintain the BW section. You make it sound like people who don't want to volunteer time and effort for BW are forced to to maintain the BW section. They aren't. What does take time and effort is taking things away from us.
"BW will likely be nothing more then one forum like LoL or DoTA2. Unless the BW scene gets motivated and starts making shit happen"
This part in particular makes absolutely no sense and seem to be something of your core philosophy. You're saying unless we randomly make new content the stuff we have already will be taken away? Why? How does this track logically? There is no reason the BW tools and databases on this site shouldn't last until Korea dies - a time we have no amount of motivation on our part can change.
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Dunno why you bothered to write a multi paragraph response to someone that makes sweeping generalizations about a community he obviously knows nothing about.
If Roffles is either unable or unwilling to update the calendar I'll do it.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
