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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
On July 11 2011 16:52 Torte de Lini wrote: I think people who use Google to give advice should get a temporary ban. It's probably the biggest insult and waste of time. When the answer is readily available on google, stop wasting people's time and search for it yourself. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
 i realize the teamliquid staff is very busy but this is a really good improvement! | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
There is often times a flood of useless advice being given as well. Too many people who have never built a PC giving advice, people who have never used some type of software throwing out their opinions. Though I think often times this advice can be distinguished from the bad by post length. 2 lines = probably not good advice. If the OPs don't take the time to read all replies and carefully weigh the information and advice being given, then so be it. I think by far the worst offenders are the OPs themselves. When you neglect to read the forum guidelines and post 3 line question, you deserve to get bad advice IMO. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On November 11 2011 03:38 TheToast wrote: There is some ban information given in Tech Support. There is often times a flood of useless advice being given as well. Too many people who have never built a PC giving advice, people who have never used some type of software throwing out their opinions. Though I think often times this advice can be distinguished from the bad by post length. 2 lines = probably not good advice. If the OPs don't take the time to read all replies and carefully weigh the information and advice being given, then so be it. I think by far the worst offenders are the OPs themselves. When you neglect to read the forum guidelines and post 3 line question, you deserve to get bad advice IMO. nono you don't get it, length of the answer is not a good indicator at all... 2lines of accurate information is great; given how much inaccurate bullshit gets thrown around. That's why we need a highlight for the guys that consistently show they give helpful and accurate advice, to help the OP's weigh the information better | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:04 ComaDose wrote: Definitely highlight good posters. But whose a good poster? I've seen a lot of forum regulars give bad advice before. I think there are some people who are very knowlegable in one topic, but not so knowledgable in another. There's also some big differences of opinion on things. I always stress that building your own PC should only be done if you have some interest and skill in doing tech things. Though I have time an again seen someone post a thread asking about a good desktop to purchase, only to be hit by a wave of people telling them to build their own PC, despite it being obvious that they are tech n00bs. "Just go to this thread and someone will tell you what parts to buy"--this annoys me more than ANYTHING. Half of building your own PC is researching the parts you want so you get the hardware that best fits what you do and what you want to be able to do within your price range. That's what makes the hassle of buying a dozen separate components, putting them all together, and loading custom set of drivers worth while. If you are just trying to save a few bucks versus buying a pre-built PC, it can quickly become a terrible experience for non tech savy people. Plus the fact that when you build your own there is no tech support to fall back on should you run into problems--a potentially colossal issue for tech newbs. On the same not, I all to often see people making threads like "what hardware should I get?", which is followed by a wave of posters just listing bundles of hardware. No discussion about important decisions to make (dual core versus quad core cost benefit), no posting of benchmarks, and I highly doubt other posters are actively verifying hardware compatibility of what others are posting. And I swear if I see one more post advocating CPU overclocking.... without going into detail I can just say this is so pointless these days given the low prices and what's on the market. Just because the advice someone gives is technically correct, does not make it good advice. I can't stress this enough. And highlighting someone would only exacerbate these issues in the Tech Support Forum and many, many more like them. It works well in the strategy forum because people can prove they know what they are talking about. If someone is a grand master Protoss player, obviously they know something about gateway timeing for example. Consistently backing arguments with Vods and replays is another good way to give evidence to your claims. But in Tech support, there is no way to prove that someone is knowlegable about tech matters. All too often I think most replies in the tech support forum are written from the point of view of a "tech hobbiest". Someone who built their own computer and now thinks they are an expert on all PC things. There is a big difference between having years of experience troubleshooting PC hardware and software issues, and having once put together the legos that is modern PC hardware. Anywho, sorry if I hijacked the topic, but I think all of this does fit in. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:35 TheToast wrote: But whose a good poster? I've seen a lot of forum regulars give bad advice before. I think there are some people who are very knowlegable in one topic, but not so knowledgable in another. There's also some big differences of opinion on things. I always stress that building your own PC should only be done if you have some interest and skill in doing tech things. Though I have time an again seen someone post a thread asking about a good desktop to purchase, only to be hit by a wave of people telling them to build their own PC, despite it being obvious that they are tech n00bs. "Just go to this thread and someone will tell you what parts to buy"--this annoys me more than ANYTHING. Half of building your own PC is researching the parts you want so you get the hardware that best fits what you do and what you want to be able to do within your price range. That's what makes the hassle of buying a dozen separate components, putting them all together, and loading custom set of drivers worth while. If you are just trying to save a few bucks versus buying a pre-built PC, it can quickly become a terrible experience for non tech savy people. Plus the fact that when you build your own there is no tech support to fall back on should you run into problems--a potentially colossal issue for tech newbs. On the same not, I all to often see people making threads like "what hardware should I get?", which is followed by a wave of posters just listing bundles of hardware. No discussion about important decisions to make (dual core versus quad core cost benefit), no posting of benchmarks, and I highly doubt other posters are actively verifying hardware compatibility of what others are posting. And I swear if I see one more post advocating CPU overclocking.... without going into detail I can just say this is so pointless these days given the low prices and what's on the market. Just because the advice someone gives is technically correct, does not make it good advice. I can't stress this enough. And highlighting someone would only exacerbate these issues in the Tech Support Forum and many, many more like them. It works well in the strategy forum because people can prove they know what they are talking about. If someone is a grand master Protoss player, obviously they know something about gateway timeing for example. Consistently backing arguments with Vods and replays is another good way to give evidence to your claims. But in Tech support, there is no way to prove that someone is knowlegable about tech matters. All too often I think most replies in the tech support forum are written from the point of view of a "tech hobbiest". Someone who built their own computer and now thinks they are an expert on all PC things. There is a big difference between having years of experience troubleshooting PC hardware and software issues, and having once put together the legos that is modern PC hardware. Anywho, sorry if I hijacked the topic, but I think all of this does fit in. I'm not talking about highlighting everyone and his grandmother just because they happen to be right about something... but there's a few people in the tech support forums who constantly give great accurate advice, and if OP is lacking info they ask for it or give the best answer the op's info can give him; and then they have to spend a shitload of energy defending their advice from idiots who don't know jackshit and all the poor tech newb sees is two people's differing opinions. Also while there is a small risk in someone getting highlighted and giving bad advice (this seems only depending on how liberal you would bee with the star users), the alternative would be how it is now.... | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:35 TheToast wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On November 11 2011 05:04 ComaDose wrote: Definitely highlight good posters. But whose a good poster? I've seen a lot of forum regulars give bad advice before. I think there are some people who are very knowlegable in one topic, but not so knowledgable in another. There's also some big differences of opinion on things. I always stress that building your own PC should only be done if you have some interest and skill in doing tech things. Though I have time an again seen someone post a thread asking about a good desktop to purchase, only to be hit by a wave of people telling them to build their own PC, despite it being obvious that they are tech n00bs. "Just go to this thread and someone will tell you what parts to buy"--this annoys me more than ANYTHING. Half of building your own PC is researching the parts you want so you get the hardware that best fits what you do and what you want to be able to do within your price range. That's what makes the hassle of buying a dozen separate components, putting them all together, and loading custom set of drivers worth while. If you are just trying to save a few bucks versus buying a pre-built PC, it can quickly become a terrible experience for non tech savy people. Plus the fact that when you build your own there is no tech support to fall back on should you run into problems--a potentially colossal issue for tech newbs. On the same not, I all to often see people making threads like "what hardware should I get?", which is followed by a wave of posters just listing bundles of hardware. No discussion about important decisions to make (dual core versus quad core cost benefit), no posting of benchmarks, and I highly doubt other posters are actively verifying hardware compatibility of what others are posting. And I swear if I see one more post advocating CPU overclocking.... without going into detail I can just say this is so pointless these days given the low prices and what's on the market. Just because the advice someone gives is technically correct, does not make it good advice. I can't stress this enough. And highlighting someone would only exacerbate these issues in the Tech Support Forum and many, many more like them. It works well in the strategy forum because people can prove they know what they are talking about. If someone is a grand master Protoss player, obviously they know something about gateway timeing for example. Consistently backing arguments with Vods and replays is another good way to give evidence to your claims. But in Tech support, there is no way to prove that someone is knowlegable about tech matters. All too often I think most replies in the tech support forum are written from the point of view of a "tech hobbiest". Someone who built their own computer and now thinks they are an expert on all PC things. There is a big difference between having years of experience troubleshooting PC hardware and software issues, and having once put together the legos that is modern PC hardware. Anywho, sorry if I hijacked the topic, but I think all of this does fit in. Forums don't need highlighting. Though some of your points I don't agree with. Yes there are forum regulars who posts stupidly from time to time. And they tend to just disappear from the discussion when it isn't going in their favour. Yes it's annoying to see one list posts saying "build your own, it's better" or linking them to the computer build resource thread. But it is advice and an option for them to consider. It's not like we are forcing it upon them, it's the individual's choice to make. Yes I got lazy and no longer link to benchmarks anymore when I talk about power consumption. But if you don't believe me than you can believe the other guy or google it yourself. It's not hard. Assembling it yourself just isn't about saving a few dollars. A self assembled configuration is going to be more optimized than a pre-built (I'm not talking about paying someone to assemble a list of components for you, I'm talking about a prebuilt as in Cyberpower, Dell), contain higher quality components, and have a longer warranty. You can fall back on Google and the forums again for tech support though this may be a hassle and stressful for someone who isn't use to doing things on their own (no offense). If an individual asks what hardware he/she should get than most people are obviously going to tell him/her that hardware. There isn't any discussion needed when no other questions are being asked. I'm not sure what you expect us to discuss when people post like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284251#1 We are volunteering our time after all and we aren't going to explain what can be googled unless you specifically ask about it. I'm not going to makae the assumption that everybody asking for help is a complete idiot and waste my time writing a thousand word reply about something that the individual most likely already knows. When individuals post like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137554¤tpage=718#14343 Than it's going to result in a discussion and when the individual actually actively keeps track of the replies and responds to them than there's even more discussion. Every reply from me along with other posters such as Wowow, Mister and Fabled are all lengthy. And highlighting would make the above discussion / thread really annoying to follow because more than half the page would be highlighted / every other post in the thread would be highlighted. I do look over most of other people's lists. Of course I do overlook some things from time to time. The most annoying thing is when people quote long posts without spoilering EVEN though it's on the same goddam page or right above their reply. If an individual can't discern bad advice from good advice on the forums than there are bigger problems in their life to worry about than a computer. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On November 12 2011 04:20 skyR wrote: Yes it's annoying to see one list posts saying "build your own, it's better" or linking them to the computer build resource thread. But it is advice and an option for them to consider. It's not like we are forcing it upon them, it's the individual's choice to make. That is true. Yes I got lazy and no longer link to benchmarks anymore when I talk about power consumption. But if you don't believe me than you can believe the other guy or google it yourself. It's not hard. In all fairness to you, as with most things, we could probably use an entire good thread dedicated to benchmarks (where to find, how to do, etc) where people could just link to support arguments. Assembling it yourself just isn't about saving a few dollars. A self assembled configuration is going to be more optimized than a pre-built (I'm not talking about paying someone to assemble a list of components for you, I'm talking about a prebuilt as in Cyberpower, Dell), contain higher quality components, and have a longer warranty. You can fall back on Google and the forums again for tech support though this may be a hassle and stressful for someone who isn't use to doing things on their own (no offense). I think you misunderstood me, I agree with what you are saying. My point is that it is not the best solution for everyone. And that there are some people better off buying a prebuilt PC than building one. All to often I see a thread asking about a prebuilt PC system and the responses all tell them to build there own. The decision to buy or build is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It depends on the person, their level of computer-savy, and whether they are prepaired to spend time troubleshooting if things don't work right. As I said, just because the advice someone gives is technically correct, does not make it good advice If an individual asks what hardware he/she should get than most people are obviously going to tell him/her that hardware. There isn't any discussion needed when no other questions are being asked. I'm not sure what you expect us to discuss when people post like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284251#1 We are volunteering our time after all and we aren't going to explain what can be googled unless you specifically ask about it. I'm not going to makae the assumption that everybody asking for help is a complete idiot and waste my time writing a thousand word reply about something that the individual most likely already knows. I admit this is a bad habbit of mine. You work in IT long enough, you begin to assume everyone is a slobbering caveman when it comes to computers. But I think my point is still valid. Just posting a bundle of hardware isn't giving good advice, at this point they may as well go buy a pre-built PC. Half of building your own PC is researching the parts you want so you get the hardware that best fits what you do and what you want to be able to do within your price range. That's what makes the hassle of buying a dozen separate components, putting them all together, and loading custom set of drivers worth while. I don't think you can get the full benefits of building a PC with a 6 line OP explaining what you want it for and for what price. And highlighting would make the above discussion / thread really annoying to follow because more than half the page would be highlighted / every other post in the thread would be highlighted. I agree completely. If an individual can't discern bad advice from good advice on the forums than there are bigger problems in their life to worry about than a computer. If they are asking for advice, this means they probably know very little about the subject of their question. Otherwise they would have figured it out for themselves. Tech Support needs to be held to the same high standards as the rest of this forum, which means stopping bad and stupid advice and ensuring the content of posts is valid. IMO at least. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On November 12 2011 06:52 TheToast wrote:+ Show Spoiler + If an individual asks what hardware he/she should get than most people are obviously going to tell him/her that hardware. There isn't any discussion needed when no other questions are being asked. I'm not sure what you expect us to discuss when people post like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284251#1 We are volunteering our time after all and we aren't going to explain what can be googled unless you specifically ask about it. I'm not going to makae the assumption that everybody asking for help is a complete idiot and waste my time writing a thousand word reply about something that the individual most likely already knows. I admit this is a bad habbit of mine. You work in IT long enough, you begin to assume everyone is a slobbering caveman when it comes to computers. But I think my point is still valid. Just posting a bundle of hardware isn't giving good advice, at this point they may as well go buy a pre-built PC. Half of building your own PC is researching the parts you want so you get the hardware that best fits what you do and what you want to be able to do within your price range. That's what makes the hassle of buying a dozen separate components, putting them all together, and loading custom set of drivers worth while. I don't think you can get the full benefits of building a PC with a 6 line OP explaining what you want it for and for what price. Why spend hours of researching when someone more knowledgeable and experienced can come up with a list for you (provided that you give them enough information)? I'm not going to spend hours of researching about rogues when I can just tell the rogue player what I want and get a list. I'm not going to spend hours of researching about design when I can just tell the designer what I want and get a list so that I can design the room myself. I'm not going to spend months researching about the various materials, tools, and components in renovating when I can just ask a renovator for a list to achieve what I want / need. I'm not going to spend a day researching on the various materials used in making a table when I can just ask someone at Home Depot and get a list of parts that'll achieve what I want. We would live in a perfect society if everyone spent hours of researching about making the perfect purchase. I'm not sure how you don't consider posting a bundle of hardware good advice, especially when it's optimized for the individuals needs and wants along with pricematching or various deals. What would constitute good advice if someone was asking for a build? + Show Spoiler + If an individual can't discern bad advice from good advice on the forums than there are bigger problems in their life to worry about than a computer. If they are asking for advice, this means they probably know very little about the subject of their question. Otherwise they would have figured it out for themselves. Tech Support needs to be held to the same high standards as the rest of this forum, which means stopping bad and stupid advice and ensuring the content of posts is valid. IMO at least. Whether the individual has knowledge in the subject matter is not relevant to their ability in discerning the good from the bad advice. It's probably not a good idea to listen to someone if their ability to communicate in English is sub par. It's probably not a good idea to take the advice of someone who joined yesterday with a post count of two over someone who has a 1000 post count and joined several years ago. It's probably not a good idea to take the advice of someone who doesn't have confidence in what they're saying. It's probably not a good idea to take the advice of a two line response over a more lengthy response with language you don't understand until you google it. It's probably a good idea to ask follow up questions and if the response you get is not satisfactory than it's probably not a good idea to take their advice. It's probably not a good idea to take their advice when they don't even read your entire opening post. There are exceptions but you get the point. And it's not like the individual asking the question and the individual responding with advice is isolated from the rest of the community. The good advice is usually repeated or acknowledged. The bad advice usually results in a discussion where there will be an obvious winner or result in the person (giving the bad advice) getting called an idiot multiple times. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 07 2012 07:33 nttea wrote: bump! Only bump old threads if you have something new and significant to add to them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#1 | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
 I support this bump. What skyR does is selfless and he deserves some recognition for it. Finding the right advice in the Tech Forum can save you a lot of time and money and he is always there to help out. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Though on a serious note, I'd enjoy highlighting. Icons are primarily reserved for staff, but highlighting in forums (rightfully) designates somebody as an authority. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
The Computer Resource Thread is now well over 1000 pages and SkyR and the other guys there are there every day helping out. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
Just read the post about why highlighting would be redundant - i still think it serves a purpose to separate those with knowledge from those without; even if half the page is highlighted | ||
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HackBenjamin
Canada1094 Posts
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