5.0.14 Balance PTR: Updates - (October 31st, 2024) - Page 2

On November 01 2024 07:27 Noocta wrote:
Okay, since we're finally abording Supply changes for unit, time to make the real decisions and bring Queens to 3 supply.
This is how you actually make Zerg early game less of a free pass, not 25 more mineral.

On November 01 2024 12:00 Intelligence13 wrote:
To Be Honest, StarCraft 2's 5.0.3 patch way back in 2020 June to September season was the most popular. StarCraft 2 had the most number of games played then per season ever in its life span. What ever happened after that brought it to dwindling fall and to what ever it is today. See for your self:

https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?season=60&queue=LOTV_1V1&team-type=ARRANGED&us=true&eu=true&kr=true&cn=true&bro=true&sil=true&gol=true&pla=true&dia=true&mas=true&gra=true&page=0&type=ladder&ratingAnchor=99999&idAnchor=0&count=1#stats-global

Ps. 5.0.3 is almost the same as the patches before it 4.11.0 - 5.0.3:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Patch_5.0.3

On November 01 2024 14:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:


This can easily be attributed to the COVID pandemic leading to people being able to work from home (or be unemployed at home), and having much more time to play and watch SC2. Viewership also rose during this time, and towards the end of the pandemic has decreased back to roughly where it was before. Many people during COVID came back to check on SC2 and give it a try.

But, you might also be right about something. The game was surely more stable and balanced in a more professional manner than the Balance Council's patches.

On November 01 2024 15:18 Draddition wrote:


You guys realize this was also the void ray meta? We aren't seriously suggesting going back to that, are we? Pre 5.0.2 I could at least see an argument, but we can't forget the first balance council patch got us away from that nonsense of a meta.

Protoss

Battery Overcharge/Energy Recharge - All this does is neuter Protoss build diversity in all three match-ups. Battery Overcharge is a necessary band-aid in the early-game, but it does nothing in the late-game once armies are large enough, and so removing it won't actually affect turtling all that much. Massed static defence is what a turtle will use, not a single Shield Battery.

Shield Battery - This isn't needed if you keep Overcharge in the game. It's also a buff to turtling because massed Shield Batteries will be harder to deal with. I'd personally love to see this go through because it's a direct buff to every cheese that I enjoy using, but it's not required and I'm not as selfish as the head of the Balance Council.

Stalker - This isn't needed if you keep Overcharge in the game. I'd personally love to see this go through because it's a direct buff to every cheese that I enjoy using, but it's not required and I'm not as selfish as the head of the Balance Council.

Colossus - This isn't needed if you keep Overcharge in the game.

Tempest - Tempests are useful for breaking turtling opponents by forcing them out of their shell, so a buff here is a step towards the Balance Council's stated goals. The change to their air-attack range is a good counter-balance because it won't impact the Tempest's usefulness against turtling opponents, because turtling players tend to rely on ground units (Tanks, Lurkers) and static defence instead of air units.

Immortal- Nerfing the unit that Protoss ground armies require if they're going to be aggressive is the opposite of discouraging turtling.

Disruptor - I don't think this fits in with their goal of preventing turtling, but it does fit with a previously stated goal of reducing the number of frustrating game-ending events that can happen in an instant. Disruptors are very frustrating to play against at lower-levels for this very reason, but they're nothing more than zoning tools at higher levels. These changes will make the Disruptor less frustrating to play against at lower-levels, but they will make the Disruptor a better zoning tool at higher levels, which I think is a sensible way to buff high-level Protoss without making Disruptors oppressively strong at lower-levels. I'd also consider removing the additional Shield damage as well, because I don't think that PvP needs Disruptors to be so good at blowing up Stalkers, but I also hate Disruptors as a general rule so I'm not the best person to ask about them!

Mothership - The Abduct change is sorely needed to give the Mothership a vibe of dominance on the battlefield, especially if it's going to cost as much as it will after these changes. This change will allow the Mothership to be used more aggressively, instead of having to hide in the backlines, and that definitely discourages turtling. The supply and cost nerfs are definitely needed to counter-balance the Abduct change. I don't think the auto-attack changes will matter in high-level games because who really wants the Mothership to be auto-attacking? But the auto-attack changes do add some necessary "coolness" to the unit for lower-level play.

Terran

Cyclone - I don't like the current Cyclone, and I don't think changing it back achieves anything to do with the stated goals of the patch. But changing it back would allow more build order diversity in PvT, which is probably a good thing, so I wouldn't be upset if this change did go through.

Salvage - I don't personally think this will make much difference, but I can at least see how it aligns with the idea of discouraging turtling.

Planetary Fortress - I think that this may be a step too far when combined with the Ghost nerf. It is the Ghost that anchors Terrans turtling in the late-game, not the Planetary Fortress.

Sensor Tower - Again, I don't personally think this will make much difference, but I can at least see how it aligns with the idea of discouraging turtling.

Orbital Command - This is a completely unnecessary change.

Ghost - Something needs to be done about the Ghost to discourage Terrans turtling in the late-game. At the same time, I don't see what else Terran is supposed to do against a late-game Zerg other than turtle, so I don't know if this change will actually achieve anything other than making Terran weaker against late-game Zerg. Discouraging turtling is great if there is an alternative, but I don't see where that alternative is. A buff to something else that Terran has is required to make this nerf useful, but what can you buff for TvZ that won't also impact TvP?

Thor - Sure. Whatever. Nobody cares about Thors.

Zerg

Queen - A nerf that has been needed for a long time. I'd personally go further, but this is a start.

Hatchery - The idea of changing the cost of a Hatchery after all these years is abhorrent. It also lessens the impact of nerfing Queens, which I don't think is a nerf that needs lessening. The Queen needs a straight-up nerf, it doesn't need a counter-balance.

Spore Crawler - Buffing Spore Crawlers encourages Spore Crawler forests, which in-turn encourages turtling. Definitely not a good change, and it goes against the stated aims of the patch.

Hydralisk - The "Frenzy" ability is an utterly pointless gimmick, and I don't think Muscular Augments need to be nerfed if you're not giving Hydralisks the "Frenzy" ability. That said, I wouldn't be too upset if these changes went through because I don't think they make a great deal of difference.

Infestor - Microbial Shroud is plenty strong the way that it is.

Ultralisk (Push Buff) - I don't think we can justify any buffs for the Ultralisk unless Terran is given something to compensate for the Ghost nerf, because Ghosts are basically the only counter Terran has to the Ultralisk. Buffing the Ultralisk in any manner will only encourage Terrans to turtle harder.

Ultralisk (Speed Nerf) - I feel this might be needed to you're going to encourage Terrans to move out once Ultralisks are on the field.

Lurker - The health change is a necessary counter-balance to the Disruptor changes. The sight change is a necessary buff to fix a bug. Both of these changes are fine.

On November 01 2024 06:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:

For Ghost, i still liked the idea of making it Light, since it would give more power to Colossus and make it more soft-counter the Ghost, and potentially give more use for Adept or Phoenix comps in PvT. And so you can't clump and snipe as effectively without risk vs Fungals+Banelings. And because making it Light would affect Ghosts for TvP mech less than making it 3 supply does. But it would still be too much for a 2 supply unit. Perhaps it can be 3 supply for now and also add Light tag if it's still an issue in the future.

On November 01 2024 14:57 thorn969 wrote:
I think this patch is worse than the previous proposal.

I look at it and it looks to me like it is nerfing all three races. I think part of what makes patches fun is new powers, but if everyone is weakened, everyone feels bad. I like making Ghosts slightly less mass-able by increasing supply, but it doesn't really change any ghost interactions and so I would like to see Zerg have a more viable lategame response to Ghosts (like Brood Lord changes, even if it is just the bug fix with no buffs). I like the idea of Terran having a more viable midgame unit - I think the blue-flame change seemed aimed at that. Maybe revert the Void Ray move speed nerf? Or give back a reduced battery overcharge? Protoss are getting a big new toy in the Energy Overcharge, but because they are losing Battery Overcharge, it feels like a nerf overall.