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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On January 22 2024 05:31 Kreuger wrote:
Desantis out of the race, down to Trump vs Haley
It's actually over, Haley has really low favorables and is out of step with the party, she just managed to consolidate the smallest slice of the GOP and get some dem votes in a year they dont have a competitive primary. She might drop before even SC.
Despite having more money spent against him by both Haley and Trump (and in total) then anyone else, DeSantis maintains his place is as very popular with GOP voters. But the dem lawfare against against Trump rallied support for him as a quasi-incumbent and he hasn't looked back, so DeSantis decided to get out now rather than waste time ans good will. He'll run again, which is pretty common the GOP. Your first try normally isn't thr one that works. Hope the GOP boomers are OK with 4 more years of Biden being a real possibility.
As someone else said, GOP primary voters really like DeSantis, but they love Trump. Simple as.
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On January 22 2024 06:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 06:07 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 19:42 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them." 1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today. 2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive. 3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks. It's pretty well accepted that in an apples to apples comparison EVs cost more than petrol vehicles. Gonna need a source on that one. EVs have less maintenance. Electricity is less than half the cost of gasoline "per gallon" Everything I have read says the opposite.
Equally, I don't think 'pound for pound' is what people are looking for. Different vehicles have different use cases, and EVs for the moment are different enough that people shouldn't be looking to 'pound for pound' get an EV replacement, they should be considering whether or not a Bolt would work for them.
It's like when Smart cars came around. They weren't seen as a pound-for-pound replacement for anything, quite literally.
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On January 22 2024 06:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 06:07 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 19:42 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them." 1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today. 2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive. 3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks. It's pretty well accepted that in an apples to apples comparison EVs cost more than petrol vehicles. Gonna need a source on that one. EVs have less maintenance. Electricity is less than half the cost of gasoline "per gallon" Everything I have read says the opposite.
Compare the sticker price of an F150 vs an F150 lightning and you will see many thousands of dollar difference. Now EV often come with more luxurious trims and options so it's not a perfect comparison but the gap is so large it can't be explained by features.
There's obviously a lot of other variables that go into the cost of a vehicle over the time you own it. How much do you pay for charging vs petrol in your state? Do you have solar panels to subsidize your electricity? Do you already have an EV charger in your house or do you have to pay to have one installed? What about financing? Auto-loans are at 9% which matters if there's a $10,000 difference in sticker price. What about insurance costs? etc.
Here's one source I found that says while gas and maintenance costs might be lower for EVs they have worse finance costs, insurance costs, and depreciation.
Kelley Blue Book calculates the five-year cost to own a vehicle, which includes all vehicle-related costs a consumer will likely have within the first five years of ownership. The data pulled from the first week of February in 2023 shows that EVs cost consumers an average of $65,202 during this time period, while ICE vehicles cost $56,962.
Financing is a component of many consumers’ purchase process. The average cost of an EV financing is $4,583, while an ICE vehicle is $3,247. After purchase, insurance is often the largest regular bill accompanying a vehicle. The average cost of collision and liability insurance for EVs is $6,824; ICE vehicles average to $5,707.
An obvious area of savings for EVs is in fuel. For ICE vehicles that drive 15,000 miles per year, the average cost of fuel over the five-year ownership (using the nationwide average of fuel prices in that time) is $9,490. EV owners driving the same distance spend $4,295 on charging. Another argument often made in favor of EV affordability is maintenance, the cost to keep a car running well. EVs and ICE vehicles share many maintenance costs, such as replacing wipers, wiper fluid, rotating the tires, etc. The difference lies, of course, in the engine. Without costs like regular oil changes, EV owners spend about $300 less on maintenance than their ICE peers in five years ($4,246 to $4,583).
The final cost of the vehicle is its depreciation at resell, the difference between what the consumer paid for it and its worth after five years of ownership. EVs lose an average of $43,515 in value; ICE vehicles depreciate by $27,883.
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On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them.
Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good.
The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies.
Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell.
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United States41385 Posts
On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell.
Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations.
He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people?
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Northern Ireland22452 Posts
On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell.
Who is manufacturing Trump’s own Twitter feed? His town halls, his television interviews, his policies as President exactly?
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On January 22 2024 07:51 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 06:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On January 22 2024 06:07 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 19:42 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them." 1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today. 2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive. 3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks. It's pretty well accepted that in an apples to apples comparison EVs cost more than petrol vehicles. Gonna need a source on that one. EVs have less maintenance. Electricity is less than half the cost of gasoline "per gallon" Everything I have read says the opposite. Compare the sticker price of an F150 vs an F150 lightning and you will see many thousands of dollar difference. Now EV often come with more luxurious trims and options so it's not a perfect comparison but the gap is so large it can't be explained by features. There's obviously a lot of other variables that go into the cost of a vehicle over the time you own it. How much do you pay for charging vs petrol in your state? Do you have solar panels to subsidize your electricity? Do you already have an EV charger in your house or do you have to pay to have one installed? What about financing? Auto-loans are at 9% which matters if there's a $10,000 difference in sticker price. What about insurance costs? etc. Here's one source I found that says while gas and maintenance costs might be lower for EVs they have worse finance costs, insurance costs, and depreciation. + Show Spoiler [snip] +Kelley Blue Book calculates the five-year cost to own a vehicle, which includes all vehicle-related costs a consumer will likely have within the first five years of ownership. The data pulled from the first week of February in 2023 shows that EVs cost consumers an average of $65,202 during this time period, while ICE vehicles cost $56,962. Financing is a component of many consumers’ purchase process. The average cost of an EV financing is $4,583, while an ICE vehicle is $3,247. After purchase, insurance is often the largest regular bill accompanying a vehicle. The average cost of collision and liability insurance for EVs is $6,824; ICE vehicles average to $5,707. An obvious area of savings for EVs is in fuel. For ICE vehicles that drive 15,000 miles per year, the average cost of fuel over the five-year ownership (using the nationwide average of fuel prices in that time) is $9,490. EV owners driving the same distance spend $4,295 on charging. Another argument often made in favor of EV affordability is maintenance, the cost to keep a car running well. EVs and ICE vehicles share many maintenance costs, such as replacing wipers, wiper fluid, rotating the tires, etc. The difference lies, of course, in the engine. Without costs like regular oil changes, EV owners spend about $300 less on maintenance than their ICE peers in five years ($4,246 to $4,583). The final cost of the vehicle is its depreciation at resell, the difference between what the consumer paid for it and its worth after five years of ownership. EVs lose an average of $43,515 in value; ICE vehicles depreciate by $27,883.
It is a shame it doesn't show what cars they are comparing. The Chevy bolt that was mentioned has an MSRP of just over 30k so unless you have to pay someone a lot of money after you own it for five years the math just doesn't work out on that depreciation. Those numbers seem to have tesla inflation which I would agree is not a good purchase.
Do the math on a Bolt compared to a Corolla or some similar sized sedan and you'll see a different story. Especially when you factor in that the government will give you a tax credit of 8 grand.
+ Show Spoiler [source] +kelly blue bookSet to 'compact car' Corolla ends up being $300 cheaper which is very comparable cost
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On January 22 2024 06:31 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 05:31 Kreuger wrote:
Desantis out of the race, down to Trump vs Haley It's actually over, Haley has really low favorables and is out of step with the party, she just managed to consolidate the smallest slice of the GOP and get some dem votes in a year they dont have a competitive primary. She might drop before even SC.
Well yeah. Wasnt ment to make it sound like it was a real race, just stating that thats the two remaining players
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On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people?
How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election?
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United States41385 Posts
On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election?
![[image loading]](https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/s5Do1kU4HFVG.png)
Also this is why I treat you people like idiots. You're not mentally capable of processing any reality outside of whatever partisan narrative you most recently heard. It's the "police defunding" all over again.
They have a voice recording of him explaining to a journalist which laws he was actively breaking during the interview with the journalist and why his conduct was illegal and somehow your response is "yeah well doesn't it seem a little suspicious to you that they're indicting him" as if the timing changes the fact that he's telling you in his own words on record that he broke the law. It's not a witch hunt, he confessed. Freely. The time for innuendo and implication about conveniently suspicious timing and witch hunts is before the guy contacts a journalist and explains that he's a witch. If you're still doing the witch hunt thing after the guy has bragged about being a witch then you have brain worms.
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On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election?
Many times, but even if the answer was "never", he has also never before been in a position to show classified documents to Kid Rock, or to incite an attempted coup d'etat.
As for tax fraud, eh. I'll grant you that they are probably only going to these lengths to get him because he's a VIP rather than a regular ole sleazy businessman. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit tax fraud. Most real estate moguls probably did. There's just limited resources to investigate and of course the VIP is going to get investigated more thoroughly than a generic business man. But as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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Northern Ireland22452 Posts
On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election?
He just went from being a regular wealthy crook to one who happened to be President of the United States, and seems at least plausible that he ends up being so again.
It is somewhat an indictment on how much you can get away with by being a regular wealthy crook, absolutely but I wouldn’t stray away from the auld Occam’s Razor that there’s a somewhat greater degree of scrutiny in a ‘with great power comes great responsibility’ sense.
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United States41385 Posts
He's also been actively and deliberately delaying the proceedings to time them with the run up to the election. A cynic would conclude that he does that because he knows that he's guilty and wants to lean hard into the victim narrative.
Take the Georgia election interference and conspiracy case. Most of Trump's associates have already pled guilty on that one and been sentenced but Trump has delayed things while spamming Truth Social and Fox News with assertions that it's a radical Democrat attempt to undermine his election campaign.
The rest of them pled guilty because they are guilty, they did illegally access and tamper with voting machines, they did sign false statements, they did allow unauthorized people access to the ballots, they did pressure the state to fraudulently declare Trump the winner, they did conspire to send phony electors to Washington to steal the electoral votes from the people of Georgia, they did make documented legal attestations as part of that conspiracy.
He's not delaying things because he's innocent, he's delaying things because he thinks his best shot of getting out of this is becoming President.
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On January 22 2024 15:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election? Also this is why I treat you people like idiots. You're not mentally capable of processing any reality outside of whatever partisan narrative you most recently heard. It's the "police defunding" all over again. They have a voice recording of him explaining to a journalist which laws he was actively breaking during the interview with the journalist and why his conduct was illegal and somehow your response is "yeah well doesn't it seem a little suspicious to you that they're indicting him" as if the timing changes the fact that he's telling you in his own words on record that he broke the law. It's not a witch hunt, he confessed. Freely. The time for innuendo and implication about conveniently suspicious timing and witch hunts is before the guy contacts a journalist and explains that he's a witch. If you're still doing the witch hunt thing after the guy has bragged about being a witch then you have brain worms.
Lawsuits when you run multi-billion dollar business empires are not exactly rare. I asked if he had been criminally indicted before this election cycle. Has he ever been arrested, convicted of any crimes, jailed? I don't even know the answer to any of these questions. I could give two shits about Trump so I'm obviously not as up to speed on all-things-Trump as you are.
I get the feeling that if Trump retired to Mar-A-Largo in 2020 to live out his golden years eating McDonalds and playing golf nobody would give a shit about how he paid off his whore 7 years ago. In a justice system that's infamous for letting the powerful people off it seems naively idealistic to believe they would go after a retired President for that.
Funny that you want to bring up defund the police again. I already gave you the Politifact that rated the claims you made in this thread as "Mostly False." As far as reality checking goes Politifact is pretty decent. Ironic that you can't take a hint from yourself about living in your own reality and whatever partisan narrative you choose to follow.
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On January 22 2024 16:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election? Many times, but even if the answer was "never", he has also never before been in a position to show classified documents to Kid Rock, or to incite an attempted coup d'etat. As for tax fraud, eh. I'll grant you that they are probably only going to these lengths to get him because he's a VIP rather than a regular ole sleazy businessman. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit tax fraud. Most real estate moguls probably did. There's just limited resources to investigate and of course the VIP is going to get investigated more thoroughly than a generic business man. But as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
The question is if Trump retired to Mar-A-Largo to spend his golden years eating McDonalds and playing golf do you think anyone would care about him showing a classified document to Kid Rock?
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On January 22 2024 19:47 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 16:13 Acrofales wrote:On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election? Many times, but even if the answer was "never", he has also never before been in a position to show classified documents to Kid Rock, or to incite an attempted coup d'etat. As for tax fraud, eh. I'll grant you that they are probably only going to these lengths to get him because he's a VIP rather than a regular ole sleazy businessman. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit tax fraud. Most real estate moguls probably did. There's just limited resources to investigate and of course the VIP is going to get investigated more thoroughly than a generic business man. But as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The question is if Trump retired to Mar-A-Largo to spend his golden years eating McDonalds and playing golf do you think anyone would care about him showing a classified document to Kid Rock?
Yes, they definitely would. If he had them in a basement collecting dust because he forgot about them maybe not, but if an ex-president is showing off state secrets as trophies to impress guests, obviously they would.
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On January 22 2024 19:47 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 16:13 Acrofales wrote:On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election? Many times, but even if the answer was "never", he has also never before been in a position to show classified documents to Kid Rock, or to incite an attempted coup d'etat. As for tax fraud, eh. I'll grant you that they are probably only going to these lengths to get him because he's a VIP rather than a regular ole sleazy businessman. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit tax fraud. Most real estate moguls probably did. There's just limited resources to investigate and of course the VIP is going to get investigated more thoroughly than a generic business man. But as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The question is if Trump retired to Mar-A-Largo to spend his golden years eating McDonalds and playing golf do you think anyone would care about him showing a classified document to Kid Rock? He stole top secret document and refused to return them, yes they would care.
He actively tried to subvert a legitimate election, yes they would care
Trump isn't being prosecuted for those things because he is a political candidate. He is being prosecuted because those are very serious crimes.
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The problem with the EV discussion is that the conservatives who try to use it as a wedge issue never outright come out and state what their next step would be to solve said issues. In reality they want to keep the status quo and would rather pretend climate change isnt happening.
"EVs are more expensive/unaffordable" - ok sure what next?
"Charging infrastructure isnt there and the grid cannot handle it" - ok lets fix that?
"EVs have poor performance in extreme temperatures" ok sure lets try to fix that?
As an FYI, automakers are also working on a parallel path of hybrids with hydrogen fuel cells. Im not sure if Pure EV will be the only thing we see going forward to combat carbon as far as vehicles go.
Maybe the EV rush is not the best choice but something has to happen. If you want an even scarier thought think of the amount of heat pumps that will be needed to make every house carbon neutral in the US. Where I live everyone has a gas furnace or boiler. All that stuff is gonna need to be redone. The scale of this project is unbelievable. AOC was on the right path with saying we need some type of green new deal.
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On January 22 2024 20:06 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2024 19:47 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 16:13 Acrofales wrote:On January 22 2024 15:14 BlackJack wrote:On January 22 2024 09:05 KwarK wrote:On January 22 2024 08:11 King_Charles_III wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. Talk about exaggerations. This is a discourse that is well past the point of resembling reality or understanding. 2024 is going to be a wild year. The two sides are just so far apart on what constitutes reality. Meanwhile, the dem side is doing overkill prosecutions of the Republican candidate, prosecutions that are premised on the dem side's echo-chamber narratives. Not good. The only path to become a well informed American citizen in 2024 (and tbh, who has the time) is to divorce yourself from the MSM reporters' headlines and arguments and instead mine their articles for raw facts, while also gathering raw facts from X and wherever else. If you do that for long enough while also reading about the US govt's regime-change capabilities, what you will inevitably see is a super-constellation of circumstantial evidence that those regime-change capabilities have been turned inwards against populism. The Western counterglobalization movement that began around 2013 (of which Trump is the US standard bearer currently) is viewed as an existential threat by Western security states. They have responded with full-scale domestic political meddling. The events and investigations that you think are organic, and that form the bulk of your understanding of trump, were manufactured by highly sophisticated actors, the US executive agencies. Thus why Trump is a reasonable choice for the moderate voter in 2024, regardless of Trump’s specific policies (which of course are not going lead to a dictatorship or whatever is the hysteria of the day on the dem side). He represents our last stand against the US's Praetorian Guard. Democrats, meanwhile, are temporarily allied with the Praetorian Guard because they have a common enemy for now. That won't lead to a good result even if they finally succeed in getting Trump into a jail cell. Trump broke the law repeatedly and flagrantly, as he has for decades, long before he showed any political inclinations. He has attempted to spin this into some kind of political persecution, despite benefiting massively from the reluctance of the justice department to prosecute his crimes. Trump isn't being politically persecuted, Trump has escaped a life sentence in prison so far precisely because of the fear of the appearance of political persecution. He stole secret Iran invasion plans from the White House and showed them to Kid Rock in a bizarre attempt to impress him. Even Kid Rock called him out on that one and said that he probably shouldn't be looking at them. A journalist recorded him for an interview in which he explained to her how funny it was that the law said that he couldn't show her the documents that he was currently showing her. Trump explains, out loud, in his own voice, exactly why he is guilty and which crimes he is committing. At what point will it be enough for you people? How many times has Trump been criminally indicted for his “decades of flagrantly breaking the law”? Doesn’t the timing seem a little suspicious to you if he has been breaking the law for decades but the indictments only pour in during the run up to an election? Many times, but even if the answer was "never", he has also never before been in a position to show classified documents to Kid Rock, or to incite an attempted coup d'etat. As for tax fraud, eh. I'll grant you that they are probably only going to these lengths to get him because he's a VIP rather than a regular ole sleazy businessman. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit tax fraud. Most real estate moguls probably did. There's just limited resources to investigate and of course the VIP is going to get investigated more thoroughly than a generic business man. But as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The question is if Trump retired to Mar-A-Largo to spend his golden years eating McDonalds and playing golf do you think anyone would care about him showing a classified document to Kid Rock? Yes, they definitely would. If he had them in a basement collecting dust because he forgot about them maybe not, but if an ex-president is showing off state secrets as trophies to impress guests, obviously they would.
Obviously they would care if he took classified docs he wasn't supposed to have to his house and used them to impress guests, hence the FBI raid. The Kid Rock thing happened in 2017, at the white house and when he was still President. I just don't imagine an ex head of state facing severe blowback for bragging to a rock 'n roller 7 years after the fact. Maybe I'm just cynical towards our justice system. If you think this is some partisan hot-take, consider that I also don't think Hunter Biden wouldn't be facing any indictments either if Joe Biden were retired and sitting on the couch watching re-runs of Gunsmoke.
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EPT
