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On January 21 2024 02:58 KwarK wrote:
On Farage, not being a publicly reviled bellend is also an unstated requirement. Private banks exist because they have a certain cachet and reputation that people are willing to pay extra for. The club can only exist if it is the kind of club people want to join and that means protecting its image above all else. Farage does not have a positive image in the UK, not even among the people who might be clients of a private bank.
He is not, nor ever was, a serious politician. UKIP was only ever a protest party. Even after Brexit BoJo never gave him the time of day. He’s a grandstanding populist rabble rouser.
If a private institution catering to the elite desires to discontinue its association with a grubby pleb like Farage then I fail to see how conservatives could have any valid complaint. The invisible hand has spoken.
Sure, you can argue that Coutts was right to discontinue Farages account for being an unsavory fellow.
My point was you can’t simultaneously argue that Coutts was right to do that while also suggesting that Coutts doing that is a narrative that only exists on Fox News or in Trump’s senile mind.
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United States41385 Posts
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them.
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 04:52 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 02:58 KwarK wrote:
On Farage, not being a publicly reviled bellend is also an unstated requirement. Private banks exist because they have a certain cachet and reputation that people are willing to pay extra for. The club can only exist if it is the kind of club people want to join and that means protecting its image above all else. Farage does not have a positive image in the UK, not even among the people who might be clients of a private bank.
He is not, nor ever was, a serious politician. UKIP was only ever a protest party. Even after Brexit BoJo never gave him the time of day. He’s a grandstanding populist rabble rouser.
If a private institution catering to the elite desires to discontinue its association with a grubby pleb like Farage then I fail to see how conservatives could have any valid complaint. The invisible hand has spoken. Sure, you can argue that Coutts was right to discontinue Farages account for being an unsavory fellow. My point was you can’t simultaneously argue that Coutts was right to do that while also suggesting that Coutts doing that is a narrative that only exists on Fox News or in Trump’s senile mind.
Perhaps we should treat banking as something that all individuals need access to in order to participate in modern society. Maybe we should add it, along with a bunch of other things, to an expanded Bill of Rights. Branches in every town and village just like the old British Post Office used to do (the nationalized British Post Office was a one stop shop for savings accounts, disbursing pensions, stocking legal forms people needed, and so forth, a public service much like a library).
The problem is that, in the UK at least, the populist Conservative government promptly privatized it and sold it off to their mates at a fraction of its value and all the rural services got shut down.
On the Fox/Trump thing, there is no substance to it, no specific policy changes demanded or promised. Debanking is just another buzz word, a feeling of unspoken oppression, a fear of things they don't understand. Trump isn't standing there and promising to set up a national bank with a charter that refuses nobody access, he's just evoking fear. The groundwork is laid by Fox/Facebook with their continual victim narratives, Trump says the word and the audience connect the dots to whatever keeps them up at night. A problem may really exist but there's no discussion of the problem, the causes of it, the actions needed to fix it. There's only a narrative, that there is a "they" and that they are out to get us. I'd welcome a political policy group to look into the need for a national bank, possibly as part of USPS. I will completely dismiss the narrative that only Trump can save the people from the debankers who are coming to drink your children's blood. There's a difference.
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On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them.
The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that.
They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool.
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I have found a good way of not being treated as a fool is not acting like a fool.
Doubling down on being a fool will not stop people from treating you like a fool.
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On January 21 2024 05:09 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 04:52 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 02:58 KwarK wrote:
On Farage, not being a publicly reviled bellend is also an unstated requirement. Private banks exist because they have a certain cachet and reputation that people are willing to pay extra for. The club can only exist if it is the kind of club people want to join and that means protecting its image above all else. Farage does not have a positive image in the UK, not even among the people who might be clients of a private bank.
He is not, nor ever was, a serious politician. UKIP was only ever a protest party. Even after Brexit BoJo never gave him the time of day. He’s a grandstanding populist rabble rouser.
If a private institution catering to the elite desires to discontinue its association with a grubby pleb like Farage then I fail to see how conservatives could have any valid complaint. The invisible hand has spoken. Sure, you can argue that Coutts was right to discontinue Farages account for being an unsavory fellow. My point was you can’t simultaneously argue that Coutts was right to do that while also suggesting that Coutts doing that is a narrative that only exists on Fox News or in Trump’s senile mind. Perhaps we should treat banking as something that all individuals need access to in order to participate in modern society. Maybe we should add it, along with a bunch of other things, to an expanded Bill of Rights. Branches in every town and village just like the old British Post Office used to do (the nationalized British Post Office was a one stop shop for savings accounts, disbursing pensions, stocking legal forms people needed, and so forth, a public service much like a library). The problem is that, in the UK at least, the populist Conservative government promptly privatized it and sold it off to their mates at a fraction of its value and all the rural services got shut down. On the Fox/Trump thing, there is no substance to it, no specific policy changes demanded or promised. Debanking is just another buzz word, a feeling of unspoken oppression, a fear of things they don't understand. Trump isn't standing there and promising to set up a national bank with a charter that refuses nobody access, he's just evoking fear. The groundwork is laid by Fox/Facebook with their continual victim narratives, Trump says the word and the audience connect the dots to whatever keeps them up at night. A problem may really exist but there's no discussion of the problem, the causes of it, the actions needed to fix it. There's only a narrative, that there is a "they" and that they are out to get us. I'd welcome a political policy group to look into the need for a national bank, possibly as part of USPS. I will completely dismiss the narrative that only Trump can save the people from the debankers who are coming to drink your children's blood. There's a difference.
It's just unfortunate that the example you used to mock the idea of debanking people for their political beliefs as a right-wing boogeyman buzzword ended up being someone that was debanked, in part, for their political beliefs.
What other delusions did Trump rant about? That "they" want to make all vehicles electric? Is that entirely off-base as well? California has a mandate to ban the sale of new gas powered cars by 2035. Biden's EPA has set emissions requirements that are expected to make 67% of all new cars electric. They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish."
Now I'm sure people will respond to this post with arguments on why we should be moving to all EV fleets while again missing the point that you can't defend the decisions to move to all electric vehicles while simultaneously saying that nobody is trying to move to all electric vehicles.
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about?
On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country?
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 08:25 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that. They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool.
So be it. That's not my fault nor my responsibility. If they're so fragile that they need someone to pander to them 24/7 then I am not obliged to treat that as a worthwhile and respectable trait. I am not a politician, I am not trying to get elected. If someone threatens to eat their own shit unless I call them a genius then I'll call them a shit eating moron and not feel the least bit owned when they promptly eat a dish of their own shit.
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On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? Show nested quote +On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country?
I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever.
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Northern Ireland22452 Posts
On January 21 2024 08:25 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that. They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool.
Being treated like a fool and being made to feel one aren’t always one and the same.
There are some circles one can’t square, wanting institutions to uphold certain values is completely reasonable. But stubbornly refusing any kind of proposal to remediate the issue is to put it mildly, frustrating.
No need to belittle everyone going by any means, sure can’t say it’s an approach that would be my personal go-to.
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On January 21 2024 08:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 08:25 gobbledydook wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that. They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool. So be it. That's not my fault nor my responsibility. If they're so fragile that they need someone to pander to them 24/7 then I am not obliged to treat that as a worthwhile and respectable trait. I am not a politician, I am not trying to get elected. If someone threatens to eat their own shit unless I call them a genius then I'll call them a shit eating moron and not feel the least bit owned when they promptly eat a dish of their own shit.
There's a line somewhere between expressing your political opinion and going out of your way to specifically express to oBlade that you think he's a moron. You're not responsible for how people react to your political views, to some extent, but you certainly are responsible for going out of your way to call someone a moron.
It's great for my amusement, but I don't think 'my amusement' is the purpose of this thread. I assume you believe your message has value or is driving at something in particular, given that you've opted out of wasting your time in other conversations. I'm curious if there's actually any value here, or if you just felt like you needed to call someone a moron today.
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 09:11 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 08:50 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:25 gobbledydook wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that. They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool. So be it. That's not my fault nor my responsibility. If they're so fragile that they need someone to pander to them 24/7 then I am not obliged to treat that as a worthwhile and respectable trait. I am not a politician, I am not trying to get elected. If someone threatens to eat their own shit unless I call them a genius then I'll call them a shit eating moron and not feel the least bit owned when they promptly eat a dish of their own shit. There's a line somewhere between expressing your political opinion and going out of your way to specifically express to oBlade that you think he's a moron. You're not responsible for how people react to your political views, to some extent, but you certainly are responsible for going out of your way to call someone a moron. It's great for my amusement, but I don't think 'my amusement' is the purpose of this thread. I assume you believe your message has value or is driving at something in particular, given that you've opted out of wasting your time in other conversations. I'm curious if there's actually any value here, or if you just felt like you needed to call someone a moron today.
It's an online political discussion on a 20 year old game forum. Nobody participating here is creating any value with their participation, myself included. My participation in this exchange as opposed to others should not be treated as an endorsement of this specific exchange but rather as evidence of the low value I place on my own time.
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever.
On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish."
President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/
Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for.
With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_production
Trump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman.
Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises.
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On January 21 2024 09:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 09:11 Fleetfeet wrote:On January 21 2024 08:50 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:25 gobbledydook wrote:On January 21 2024 05:03 KwarK wrote:
That's not to say that there aren't merits to some of the specific complaints like the excessive power of big tech to unilaterally limit the ways in which people engage with the world. There are. It's just that the people making those complaints are all fucking morons who are actively supporting the side doing it. It's the old "only Trump, a New York trust fund baby who actively steals from working class contractors and brags about it understands the working class" thing. The working class have valid issues, but how is putting them massively in debt to fund tax cuts for the 1% the policy they vote for? The issues with excessive and capricious law enforcement being wielded as a weapon are probably not going to be fixed by the guy who is specifically vowing that he's definitely going to use them as a weapon.
Big Tech is not left wing. The left think it should be nationalized and treated as utilities because it's as vital as roads and power lines these days. Big Finance is not left wing. The left think the bankers should have had their property seized. The Democratic Party isn't left wing.
I don't look down on the specific issues. I look down on you. You personally oBlade. You're a proudly outspoken member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and you come in here and cry about how the leopards must be stopped. I don't disagree that they must be stopped. I think the first step is not voting LEPFP.
It's like the Epstein thing, I don't disagree that a billionaire having a secret island where he molested children is a problem. But how is Trump, the guy who bragged about his trips to that island and when asked about it commented “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." the guy to stop it. The guy with the AG whose father hired an unqualified Epstein to be a school teacher. That guy.
My problem with these Republican voters is that they're morons. To a man. Each and every one of them. The reason the Dems appear to be losing is precisely because the Dem elites, like you, treat everyone else like they are morons, and they don't like it when you do that. They'd rather support a traitorous rapist than someone who treats them like a fool. So be it. That's not my fault nor my responsibility. If they're so fragile that they need someone to pander to them 24/7 then I am not obliged to treat that as a worthwhile and respectable trait. I am not a politician, I am not trying to get elected. If someone threatens to eat their own shit unless I call them a genius then I'll call them a shit eating moron and not feel the least bit owned when they promptly eat a dish of their own shit. There's a line somewhere between expressing your political opinion and going out of your way to specifically express to oBlade that you think he's a moron. You're not responsible for how people react to your political views, to some extent, but you certainly are responsible for going out of your way to call someone a moron. It's great for my amusement, but I don't think 'my amusement' is the purpose of this thread. I assume you believe your message has value or is driving at something in particular, given that you've opted out of wasting your time in other conversations. I'm curious if there's actually any value here, or if you just felt like you needed to call someone a moron today. It's an online political discussion on a 20 year old game forum. Nobody participating here is creating any value with their participation, myself included. My participation in this exchange as opposed to others should not be treated as an endorsement of this specific exchange but rather as evidence of the low value I place on my own time.
While I generally agree with this sentiment, I would note that should this forum (more specifically the participants) actually unite around a common core goal, the capacity likely extends past what even some national governments could hope for given the potential of various individuals that frequent this space (or at least have over the years).
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On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." Show nested quote +President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises.
Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them."
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United States41385 Posts
On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them."
1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today.
2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive.
3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks.
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Northern Ireland22452 Posts
It’s not as if core supply chains aren’t an issue with ICE vehicles, and in a more general sense that Chinese manufacturing is incredibly embedded in Western economies in all sorts of sectors.
But with EVs these become big issues all of a sudden amongst a certain demographic, I think it’s entirely fair to tar that segment with the ‘culture war’ brush.
This isn’t to say there aren’t technical, logistical challenges in transitioning either that need overcome with scientific expertise and good, considered policy.
On an increasing slew of topics though it’s patently apparent what folks have grounded gripes and for whom it’s frothing up over another round of the culture war, and it’s super easy to tell the difference between the two.
Can one explain the issue they have in a way that doesn’t entirely contradict your position on another issue, and likewise with proposed solutions?
It’s not a crazily high bar to clear, if one can then it’s fully possible to have a productive conversation, if not well, less so, to put it mildly.
If you’ve got a decently functioning brain, are vaguely immersed in politics (so basically everyone in this thread, although I don’t think we’re crazily representative of gen pop) it’s extremely easy to recognise the culture war rallies that Trump most typifies after approaching a decade of it, albeit I don’t believe they’re exclusive to that side of the spectrum, nor that he is a root cause rather than the most blatant symbol.
As for debanking, and indeed a wider policy of digital deplatforming I’m largely opposed out of egregious infringements. Or AI coming along and all that entails, but big tech isn’t going to regulate itself is it? And indeed I think this issue is getting worse all the time as tech becomes even more embedded, and big tech is in genuinely ‘too big to fail territory’
But that’s a drum I’ve been banging for years, at least 10-15 years, preceding posts I’ve made on it when I started posting here, some of which must be a few years old by now with various proposed solutions that have interested me. Be it an internationally codified standard, a UN Declaration of Digital Rights if you will, to entities like the US or the EU unilaterally regulating and by virtue of their market size dragging the wider global concern in a particular direction. Or, come the less realistic end of the scale the kind of self-regulation and industry bodies we saw that established the internet 1.0, how open-source licenses worked etc.
But how that looks is well, complicated and doesn’t happen in a vacuum and requires some base principles to work around.
It’s an example discussion I can probably have no bother in here and get some interesting perspective, and just not one I can have with someone who views saying the ‘n word’ online is some sacred right and is opposed to regulation more widely.
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Desantis out of the race, down to Trump vs Haley
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On January 21 2024 19:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them." 1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today. 2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive. 3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks.
It's pretty well accepted that in an apples to apples comparison EVs cost more than petrol vehicles. Sure, a Chevy Bolt is cheaper than a Ford F150 but that's not really a fair comparison. It's also obviously more convenient to have a vehicle that can "charge" from 0 to 100 in 3 minutes than one that can charge from 0 to 80 in 20 minutes.
Personally I think Teslas are the coolest cars I've ever driven, especially for the price point they sell them at. I have little interest in dunking on EVs or defending the orange man. Trump says enough batshit things to criticize that we don't need to pretend that there are no limitations to EVs.
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On January 22 2024 06:07 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2024 19:42 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 19:28 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 10:01 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 09:06 BlackJack wrote:On January 21 2024 08:48 KwarK wrote:On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
What other delusions did Trump rant about? On October 27 2023 00:58 KwarK wrote:This is a few days old now but I just saw Trump’s nuanced and reasonable speech in response to the Gaza attacks. + Show Spoiler + People who sympathize with this are sick, they're sick and they're evil and they're not going to be fixed. You're not going to make them into wonderful people one day. I didn't know you had flies in Iowa. I HATE FLIES! Now I'll get in trouble for saying that, cruelty to animals, no, it's true. You know I said the other day, wee I was at a place, it was a beautiful place, but they had like flies and I said "GET FLY PAPER" they said "they're not allowed to sell it anymore because of cruelty to animals" they actually said that but I don't know can you get fly paper it used to be great right but "you can't do that anymore sir it's cruelty". What the hell is going on with this country? I meant in the post that initiated this line of discussion, not ever. On January 21 2024 08:44 BlackJack wrote:
They are more expensive than ICE vehicles. China does dominate the EV supply chain. How exactly is this "utter nonsense" or "gibberish." President Biden set an ambitious goal for electric vehicles (EV) to make half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 electric. Thanks to his leadership, economic and industrial strategy, and landmark legislative accomplishments, the United States is seeing historic investment in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing – which has resulted in EV sales tripling since President Biden took office. This market transformation is expected to increase demand for critical minerals such as lithium and graphite used in EV batteries. Today’s announcements demonstrate how the United States is poised to meet this challenge while growing our economy and creating high-quality union jobs in the battery supply chain.
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s electric vehicle future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law alone invests more than $7 billion to help domestic manufacturers have the critical minerals and other necessary components to manufacture the batteries we need to meet our climate goals. The Inflation Reduction Act makes new and used EVs more affordable for consumers with tax credits that support using minerals and battery components from the United States and our allies. And, it includes credits to help manufacturers retool existing facilities and build new battery manufacturing and critical mineral processing in the United States as well as grants to deploy zero emission heavy-duty vehicles.
President Biden’s economic agenda has already ignited a domestic manufacturing boom, with companies announcing over $100 billion in EV, battery and EV charging investments right here in the United States. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/19/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-driving-u-s-battery-manufacturing-and-good-paying-jobs/Electric vehicles are the future. They have to be, or there won't be a future. The economy cannot continue to consume vast amounts of hydrocarbons and pump CO2 into the air, too much of it depends upon a stable climate. The value provided by, for example, insect pollinators is in the trillions but we take it for granted and so the disruption to it isn't viewed as an expense. The externalities make fossil fuels more expensive but they're not properly accounted for. With that in mind the question is whether the US will be a leader in electric technology or whether another country will. Biden is investing in building up domestic capability which is good because the resources are there, there's no reason why the US shouldn't be a leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea#Lithium_productionTrump is using it as a culture war shorthand, they want weak electric cars unlike conservative men who drive big coal rolling trucks and also China bogeyman. Nothing Trump does will change the fact that electric cars are the future, all it'll do is weaken America's place in that future. Just as Trump did nothing to slow the demise of US coal production (it fell every year of his presidency), despite his promises. Not everything is a culture war issue. The two biggest issues far and away for EV adoption are affordability and charging infrastructure/range. Which is exactly what Trump mentioned in his rant. "They don't go far and they are very expensive." Absent from the rant was "You can't roll coal in them and only pussy liberals drive them." 1. They’re cheaper than the best selling vehicles in the US today. 2. They do go far. Further than the vast majority of Americans routinely drive. 3. Trump doesn’t need to explicitly say every piece of it. That’s not how his meandering speeches work. With Trump literally everything is a culture war issue. From drinking bleach to using flypaper. Nothing isn’t a culture war issue when he speaks. It's pretty well accepted that in an apples to apples comparison EVs cost more than petrol vehicles.
Gonna need a source on that one. EVs have less maintenance. Electricity is less than half the cost of gasoline "per gallon"
Everything I have read says the opposite.
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EPT
