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I've been thinking a lot about grad school lately. I'm only in my fourth semester of undergrad, but between Zaranth's blogs about the matter, and my own wanderlust, the thought of moving on to another school is already sounding captivating. But perhaps the most compelling reason behind my interest in graduate school is the fact that it represents something of a second chance to me. I've always wanted to get into a competitive, nationally renowned university, and unfortunately my opportunity to do so as an undergraduate has all but passed. Attending graduate school, in addition to all of the other benefits it carries for me, offers another chance to fulfill this dream, and I'm determined to not screw it up.
This brings me to the main point of this blog. So far, throughout my college experience, I've been solely focusing on grades. I did the same thing in high school - placed a large amount of import upon my schoolwork, and relied on these (and a bit of theater experience, for fun) to give my college applications weight. I ended my high school career with a very solid GPA, high test scores, and plenty of AP credits to my name. But when it came time to apply for college, I couldn't help but feel that I was missing a critical component of my application, and judging from the large amounts of empty space under the "extracurriculars / community service / involvement" sections of college applications, I was right. Sure, I took time to talk about my truncated involvement with the Boy Scouts and my experience in theater, but by the end of the application period, these sections were woefully lacking.
My results only strengthened that feeling. I managed to get accepted to the state schools that I applied to, but the one university that rejected me was the one that I had always wanted to attend - Stanford University. I wasn't terribly surprised; getting admitted to a school like Stanford involves a number of intangibles that go way beyond the strong grades and test scores that every single applicant has. But I was still upset, since I knew that it was likely my lack of these intangibles that led to my rejection.
Now that grad school is coming around, I have another shot to get accepted to a school like Stanford. My scope is a bit broader this time, but most of the schools that I'm interested in applying to are similarly known for their competitive standards. And I can't help but fear that I'm going to be lacking in the same area this time around. I've received great grades throughout college so far, but I haven't done much beyond that. With this in mind, I figured I would ask for some advice. There are plenty of resources online about how to get into a competitive grad school, and I'm definitely looking at these, but I'd like to hear a personal opinions, as well. What should I do with the rest of my undergraduate experience in order to bolster my application for graduate school, other than focusing on grades?
Thanks for the read, and sorry for the lack of brevity! (I'm at an engineering school right now, so it feels kind of good to write more than a paragraph or two.)
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1. What subject do you want to go to grad school for? And what type of degree do you want to get? Most programs are aimed at people who are very passionate about their subject, and it will be difficult to get in if you don't have a similar passion (and experience that reflects this passion). However, terminal masters programs are aimed at people who want to get a masters and then start (or continue) working; they're usually easier to get into, and this type of program might be your best bet. However, they can be very expensive (especially at private schools like Stanford).
2. Many grad programs have GPA and GRE requirements. These are typically minimums... a bad GPA or GRE score can keep you out, but great scores won't get you in. There are simply too many people with great GPAs and GRE scores.
3. The main thing grad school admissions are based on are letters of reference and research experience. These two go together, since it's hard to get a good reference letter if you haven't worked closely with a prof.
Edit: spelling.
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On February 05 2013 09:55 munchmunch wrote:
1. What subject do you want to go to grad school for? And what type of degree do you want to get? Most programs are aimed at people who are very passionate about their subject, and it will be difficult to get in if you don't have a similar passion (and experience that reflects this passion). However, terminal masters programs are aimed at people who want to get a masters and then start (or continue) working; they're usually easier to get into, and this type of program might be your best bet. However, they can be very expensive (especially at private schools like Stanford).
I'm interested in Aerospace Engineering. I'm currently majoring in Mechanical Engineering, as the school I'm going to doesn't have a specified Aerospace degree, but I do have an "area of special interest" in Space and Planetary Science (basically, a mini-minor at my school, which serves as a way to express interest in a certain topic.) As far as degree types go, I'm definitely interested in a masters, but I'm not certain whether I should pursue a terminal masters program or a Ph.D. down the road.
2. Many grad programs have GPA and GRE requirements. These are typically minimums... a bad GPA or GRE score can keep you out, but great scores won't get you in. There are simply too many people with great GPAs and GRE scores.
Definitely, this is the problem I'm afraid I might face, moving forward. I'm sure I'll have the grades and scores necessary - just like in high school - but I need to do more than meet the benchmarks to be accepted.
3. The main thing grad school admissions are based on are letters of reference and research experience. These two go together, since it's hard to get a good reference letter if you haven't worked closely with a prof.
This is definitely what I'm looking for. I'm applying to internships in Aerospace-related programs over the summer, but some research experience with professors on campus would be fantastic. I just need to figure out how to get around to doing something like this, and balance it with internship / summer job opportunities.
Thanks much for the advice!
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Assuming you are aiming for top schools, and besides the obvious (better #s across the board)
In the short term, you can do the following to improve your chances:
1. Hire an admission consultant if you can afford one, they cost a lot (e.g. $3700 for two schools) but they do add value if you think you have a chance of getting admitted.
2. Do an internship somewhere that separates you from the rest of the applicants. Working somewhere remote, like Africa for example, will give you opportunities to work closely with higher-up people (directors or CEO of the African organization). Besides a unique experience (both professionally and personally), you can often get a great recommendation letter.
Also, master's and Ph.D. are completely different playing fields. Getting into a master's programme is considerably easier.
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Disclaimer: Pertains mostly to PhD applications.
Importance of application materials:
1.) statement of purpose
2.) letters of recommendation
3.) writing sample
4.) GPA
5.) GRE
(1) SOP: This is where you answer the questions, "Why should we fund you? What have you done so far that can guarantee us that you won't drop out midway through our program? What do you plan to do in grad school, and how do we know you can get along with our faculty?" So basically here is where you cover a.) background incl. relevant coursework, relevant languages, and relevant research; b.) research interests; c.) faculty interests and school strengths to show you did your research on their program; and d.) how (a), (b), and (c) coincide.
(2) Cozy up to two profs. Three if necessary. You want two LORs at least that say, "OMG BALTOR WILL BE AN AMAZING RESEARCHER!" Bonus points if these are famous researchers in the field. 
One can be, "Oh, he did well in our class." Any more than one of these kinds of letter will probably spell death to your application in the final stages of admission (if you get there).
If they only want two LORs, then make those two LORs very good.
(3) Of variable importance. Some fields don't ask for one. Others do, but only care to see if you can write intelligibly and cite properly. The closer fields get to the humanities and social sciences, the more important these writing samples become, and they're a decent way to make up for shitty GRE scores.
(4) and (5) are self-explanatory. Almost nobody looks at the GRE Writing Score since it is scored half by a machine, but GRE is sometimes used to assign funding ...
As for less standard advice ... I fear my field is too different from yours to be helpful. I just finished applying to PhD programs in December though, so if you have specific questions about the process, I might be able to answer them.
Generally, I really advise contacting profs and getting facetime with them if you can, esp. at conferences around a month or two before applications are due. First, this will let them put a face to your application. Second, it will let you know if you think you can stand working under them as a grad student. Third, it will let you know if the department is worth applying to; one prof I met heavily discouraged me from applying to his school due to a.) lack of funding and b.) his status (read: he was retiring soon, and he was the guy I was primarily interested in working with).
Secondly, whatever you are applying to, make sure you have a spreadsheet that lists schools, their required materials (along with respective "have I sent, y/n?" boxes), and their due dates. This will save you so much time and grief.
I do not think admissions consultants are worth it, personally. (TO CLARIFY: They almost certainly will not tell you anything you can't find out yourself. Hell, you can probably ask your profs about the admissions process and what they look for in potential candidates.)
And I also don't think it's necessary to intern somewhere that sets you apart from the pack just to be unique, unless it gets you really good research experience and facetime with really good researchers in your field. Adcoms are not looking for people, btw; they are looking for researchers.
And since you are an engineer, check out some REUs!
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If you go and visit the campus during your senior year (even before you get accepted) and speak to the professors in person, they can help you get into the school if they like you enough. Yes I realize this can be expensive but when a professor from their own school vouches for you, it almost guarantees that you will get in. Of course this probably means that you will end up working in that lab... but that is the one option that I've noticed helps the most.
However, since you're so young, I would definitely pursue the undergrad research opportunities at your current institution.If you do a cool research project, schools will notice that. And even if you don't intend to do grad school there, your research advisor(s) can help you network, and maybe if you're lucky, you can get sent to conferences where you can meet professors from other schools.
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Letters of recommendation are what get you into top graduate schools (at least for phd programs). Good grades and good GRE scores are usually required, but letters of recommendation are what really separate you from the herd. You want at least 3 letters. The amount that each letter can help you is a function of a) how good it is, b) how famous the writer is, and c) how well the faculty at the school you're applying to personally knows the recommender. It's usually nice to try to hit both ends of the spectrum, maybe you'll get one letter from a less famous professor who knows you really well, and another letter from a famous professor who you don't know quite as well personally.
The other thing that can get you into top schools is a co-authorship on a published paper or book. It's pretty rare to get this, but having a published peer-reviewed paper (and the phenomenal letter of recommendation that usually comes with it) is as close to a golden ticket as you can get.
Look for good internships during the summer. Bonuses for places where you get a chance to work under famous people or for places to connections to universities that you might want to apply to. If you can find a research/relevant work part-time job during the school year that's a big bonus as well, particularly if it's with a faculty member that can help you with a letter.
Visiting/talking to professors at the school you're applying to is very field-dependent. Some fields or professors might like it, while some will view it as an annoyance. You should ask some of your current professors what their opinion of doing that is, or ask graduate students in the same field from your school or something.
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I am currently a grad student at UC Berkeley (chem program). Even as an admitted student it is very hard to know why you were accepted while others werent, but from talking to others in the program and from meetings with faculty and such this is my impression:
Undergrad research experience. This is by far the most important. For US college applications "extracurriculars" is what you need to make you stand out, for grad school they are irrelevant. What you need to show is that you have an actual interest and aptitude for scientific research. This means joining a lab instead of taking a job in the school cafeteria, working in a lab instead of playing video games during the summer, working in a lab instead of.... you get the point. Depending on your undergrad institution you might be able to join a good lab on campus or you might have to scout farther afield.
Letters of recomendation: From the people you worked for and from faculty you developed personal relationships with. These serve to show that not only are you interested in scientific research (look at all those hours spent in lab) but you are also good at it. Your undergrad institution helps here as well... A more famous one will have more famous faculty, and their letters weigh more...
Grades and GREs. To show general academic competence. You need to have decent scores here to be considered (I think the average GPA for students admitted to berkeley chem is something like 3.8?) But for the "average" application these dont matter tooo much. Insane scores (meaning 4.0 + 99th percentile on the subject test) takes a lot of the randomness out the the application procedure though, (provided you did fine in your previous two sections.) The guys I know with scores like that got accepted litterally everywhere they applied, most others have at least one or 2 seemingly random rejections.
Edit: So yeah the most important thing for you to do is find a research lab for THIS summer. Summer after a second year is a great time to start. Later than that and it starts becomding very late.... So start sending out probe emails for positions and available funding this coming month. Note that what you actually end up working with is much less important than the fact that you are involved in research.
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On February 05 2013 10:13 Baltor wrote:Show nested quote +3. The main thing grad school admissions are based on are letters of reference and research experience. These two go together, since it's hard to get a good reference letter if you haven't worked closely with a prof.
This is definitely what I'm looking for. I'm applying to internships in Aerospace-related programs over the summer, but some research experience with professors on campus would be fantastic. I just need to figure out how to get around to doing something like this, and balance it with internship / summer job opportunities.
Look up professors' CVs on their websites to get a sense of what they're currently researching. Any that seem interesting and seem like people you might want to work with, shoot them an email and explain your situation. Explain what interests you about their work, mention any of their classes you took if you've met already, explain that you'd like to, if possible, get some research experience as an undergrad in the field, and if they're not looking for any undergrad assistants, ask if you could talk to them about where else you might be able to find research experience. Also ask to just talk about some of their work some, some professors just won't have time and won't respond to your email, but many (varying between departments and institutions, of course) will be happy to see an undergrad that cares about what they do outside the classroom and at least point you in the right direction.
Edit: two posts up from me is a good clarification -- asking Prof X's grad students about whether or not he might have use for (and time for) an undergrad is a great way to feel out the situation first.
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If you want to get into a specific school, you should have targeted a specific professor and have contacted him with interest in his specific work. I'd aim for an associate professor trying to get tenure :o) My personal experience was while I could find professors with research in topics I was interested in, I couldn't get the same exposure compared to professors at my undergrad school. Before accepting admission I already knew I was guaranteed full tuition and a nice stipend for the next 2 years (I have zero PhD ambition). So if you were big into MEMS or robotics, you should have focused your summer internships/coops in that direction and addressed the specific professor doing that topic. Or do a few years in industry (lots of good aerospace companies around) to build on. Good luck!
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internships are bullshit. I have to take summer courses to finish in time, which leaves me 0 time for full time internships
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A lot of what others has said is good, so I'll probably end up repeating stuff but since I just finished grad school apps and learned how to make myself a good candidate a year too late, I figure I'll give my two cents.
1) Internships/Part-time jobs/research/real world experience: basically anything that gives you hands on experience in the field you are hoping to apply (Aerospace engineering in your case). Apply aggressively to any and all opportunities. GET YOUR RESUME OUT THERE. It doesn't matter if every single place rejects you, Surprisingly, it is not uncommon for recruiters to pass around resumes of people they have rejected. My friend got an internship to a position he didn't even apply to because it was a different department within a company he did apply to. While getting a position and learning the ropes is an important experience, this leads to my next point.
2) Letters of Rec: your letters of rec can very well be the tilting factor in being accepted or rejected. If you get a position, be active in talking to your superiors so they can get to know you as well as possible so that you can ask for a letter of rec in the future. Honestly, unless you've had a professor for multiple classes, they will almost never be able to write as good of a letter as someone who has worked closely with you (of course, if you do research for them, that's different). Most schools require 2 letters but some ask for 3. IIRC, Stanford asks for 2 nope I'm wrong, they asked for 3. I don't care, they already rejected me! D: Although I say professors will not be able to write as strong of a letter, you should still talk to them as much as possible for the next 1-1.5 years before you start applying. You have plenty of time but get started now.
3) Others have mentioned it but I can't reiterate enough how helpful it is to get in contact with professors at schools you want to apply to, especially if you're doing a MSc over an MEng and even more so if you plan to go for PhD. Basically if a professor likes you enough, he can pretty much guarantee you an acceptance and you will end up working on his research, so make sure you target professors whose interests match your own.
4) Leadership: this can vary a lot but you might want to consider trying to get involved in a GOOD club and take a leadership position there. Stuff like community service or tutoring** is always a plus but not really what I mean. This of course will depend on what student orgs even exist at your school, but ideally, you would want something that really grows students professionally. To be honest, they may not even exist, but I've been lucky to be a part of a very new yet extremely successful club for pre-professionals. We connect companies to students and do things like research position workshops, industry tours, resume critiquing, and we get students internships/jobs through our industry connections. If you can't find one, I'll tell you right now to go make one and do exactly what I just described as best as you can. My club is just over 3 years old and it's already one of, if not THE, most successful pre-professional org on campus because we actually do important things with important people. If nothing else, the experience of being in a leadership position is something to write and talk about that will set you apart from everyone else who did internships and research.
5) GPA and GRE are a joke in comparison to the aforementioned things. Yeah, you don't want bad grades, but unless you're like EECS at Berkeley, there's a limit to how meaningful grades are. GRE is even less important as the writing/reading section you just need to do better than international students lol (no offense to them) so math is the only thing you kinda need to worry about but it's really not that hard nor important.
Also, I know you didn't ask, but you might want to consider getting 1-2 years of industry experience before continuing on to grad school. I've talked to a lot of grad students about this and it seems to have a very positive effect on their graduate school experience because working full time helps you learn EXACTLY what you want to do. Not just "aerospace engineering" but all the specifics too (do you want to do QC? Manufacturing? Development? Research? Large or small company? what work environment? Work culture? etc). Even if you think you know now, you can't really say until you get that experience. Grad students who work and go back to school know exactly where they want to go upon completion whereas grad students who went straight from undergrad are still pretty clueless about what they want to do and this hinders the experience because you aren't necessarily doing the research or taking the classes that will benefit you in the long run. The only downside is quite literally every single one has mentioned it is VERY difficult to transition from a full time job back to school, which is why I plan to continue straight to grad school unless I get a crazy good offer. There are pluses and minuses to it, but something to think about and ask around about.
**Community service/tutoring/outreach may be an important factor when/if you apply to scholarships/fellowships.
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Man, I really love TeamLiquid. I just posed a simple question and you guys responded in force, with amazing points backed by personal experience. I'd respond in depth to each of you, but I'd rather not take up a page and a half by myself. Instead, I'll just shoot you a PM to discuss certain topics in more detail if I need.
Seriously, though, thanks to everyone that replied. I'm sure this knowledge will prove invaluable in the months to come. I've got a lot to think about, and a lot to act upon, so I'll try to keep this blog updated with my experience (as a way of keeping everything organized.)
Thanks again!
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EPT
