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On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO.
How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do-Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked.
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Maybe make it so Hunter Seeker Missile doesn't have a travel time but latches onto a target, kinda like the alpha Widow Mine.
This would cause massive damage if the victim doesn't split his units, similiar to Irradiate.
An ability that is mitigated by micro is always a good thing.
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On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked.
like storm isnt viable because of EMP? or is it EMP that isnt viable because of feedback? and what happens if you combine ravens and ghosts? omg the world is gonna end. :-P
nobodys perfect and so arent pros. thats why you see both emp/snipe and storm/feedback go off on both sides. so some ravens will be feedbacked before the HT are EMPed and some ravens will be able to cast because HT will be EMPed.
this is of course assuming the range of irradiate will be range 9. if it keeps the low range of seeker missile you are definetly right that they almost always will be feedbacked.
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Some interesting suggestions in this thread. I always thought that the auto turret should have shared upgrades with mechanical units.
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On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked.
That's like saying Infestors are useless in ZvP because of feedback.
I would argue (like most people) that Infestors are quite strong in ZvP.
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i kinda like the idea that Raven should have some support spell for mech army. it's not have to be defensive matrix but something that can help protect siege tank would work.
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On November 08 2012 23:44 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked. That's like saying Infestors are useless in ZvP because of feedback. I would argue (like most people) that Infestors are quite strong in ZvP.
Yeah in theory it wouldn't work with feedback but we are seeing mech develop in HOTS TvP, coupled with tanks and a small range boosts on the raven's spells I see it working very well. Feedbacking a raven is nice but try to do it under siege tank range.
On November 08 2012 23:37 Glockateer wrote: Some interesting suggestions in this thread. I always thought that the auto turret should have shared upgrades with mechanical units.
Right now they are considered buildings, which is why they can't be placed on top of units or other buildings like lowered supply depots and creep tumors. They also benefit from the armor plating building upgrade and the range one as well. Make it like IT that are considered units and they would be placable anywhere and benefit from upgrades.
On November 08 2012 23:16 Arco wrote: Maybe make it so Hunter Seeker Missile doesn't have a travel time but latches onto a target, kinda like the alpha Widow Mine.
This would cause massive damage if the victim doesn't split his units, similiar to Irradiate.
An ability that is mitigated by micro is always a good thing.
It already latches on a target and has a timer which is like the alpha widow mine. The difference as you said is the travel time but that doesn't limit micro at all, you still have to split units and try to find the one targeted to run it away. I don't think it would make a difference.
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I think Auto Turret is a silly ability to put on terran's highest tech spell caster. It's a cool idea for an ability, but it shouldn't be on the Raven. It just doesn't have enough OOMPH! It would be much more interesting on a mech unit, maybe as a standard Thor ability, which would give Thors a way to spend their energy and avoid Feedback damage, making them more viable in TvP.
I think something like Defense Matrix would be a nice ability to give the Raven. You could matrix another Raven so it can move close and get off it's HSM.
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On November 09 2012 00:46 Fig wrote: I think Auto Turret is a silly ability to put on terran's highest tech spell caster. It's a cool idea for an ability, but it shouldn't be on the Raven. It just doesn't have enough OOMPH! It would be much more interesting on a mech unit, maybe as a standard Thor ability, which would give Thors a way to spend their energy and avoid Feedback damage, making them more viable in TvP.
I think something like Defense Matrix would be a nice ability to give the Raven. You could matrix another Raven so it can move close and get off it's HSM.
I dont agree with you, for me its more Terran an Auto Turret that is like a robot with an IA than a energy field or shield that its more suitable for Protoss.
I think that auto-turrets should get ship upgrades (damage+armor).
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On November 08 2012 16:04 Freeborn wrote:I am pretty sure that blizzard will not add any bw units or skills to the game at this point, so stop asking for it already. As for the raven - it's actualy a really good unit and auto turret are pretty good too. But it's simply not usable enough for it's price and the time it takes to mass them. My suggestion would be too cut the gas costs a little and decrease the buildtime. Then increase auto turret drop range and maybe lower energy cost. But remove HSM and instead give it to the viking as an upgrade, each viking gets 1 missile. That would make ravens more easily available and massable but they would not be able to kill anything by themselves other than using autoturrets. One other option would be to give them a second type of turret to drop... How about taking away EMP from the ghost, but then not just giving it to the raven - instead it drops an Inhibitor Turret which deactivates all shields and energy dependent abilities in the vicinity. If the troops leave the are of effect they become instantly available again though. That would make the raven superbly useful while at the same time offering a different EMP variant. Anyone besides me like that idea? I think it's great
You mean like re-skinned Firebats /facepalm.
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On November 08 2012 23:30 Decendos wrote: this is of course assuming the range of irradiate will be range 9. if it keeps the low range of seeker missile you are definetly right that they almost always will be feedbacked. That's quite a big assumption. The range of seeker missile is currently at 6.
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On November 09 2012 01:42 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:30 Decendos wrote: this is of course assuming the range of irradiate will be range 9. if it keeps the low range of seeker missile you are definetly right that they almost always will be feedbacked. That's quite a big assumption. The range of seeker missile is currently at 6.
yeah i know. but like i said before. a higher ranged HSM would be nerfed so much in damage to not become OP that it would basically become useless.
thats why i love the idea lots of people posted in other threads to give the raven irradiate instead of HSM. irradiate is just such an awesome spell: it forces micro from the opponent, its a spell that increases the skill ceiling since better player will take less damage from it AND it punishes clumping/deathball play a lot AND you can use it to harrass (either directly on worker or on sth. like a banshee or viking or even a fast helion and fly/drive in worker line).
since it doesnt do huge instant damage like HSM it will be fine to increase the casting range to 8 or 9 which adds a lot of durability to the expensive raven.
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Just 2 ideas: - HSM: target area and reworked damage: lower base +bonus vs armor unit so that it won't be super imba vs muta/hydras but will also do a lot vs broodlords (the speed would remain about the same = starting slow, accelerating, so that you can dodge) - Auto turret: can be placed on a friendly ground mechanical unit, only 1 per unit; additionally to the damage it would give +1 bonus armor and auto-repair ability
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On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO.
they dont have to be like infestors (good no matter when you make it)
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On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked.
giving raven irradiate will fix this problem to an extent. Just like how its ghost snipe vs HT feedback, it will be HT feedback vs raven irradiate
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I personally think that while the auto turrets should be treated as a unit like IT, I would rather them be structures for the purpose of being an anti widow mine unit. However, if they were treated as units, then I could be on board with this if they still block movement, since they would be awesome in TvZ to split lings/blings.
Lots of great suggestions so far. I hope we don't see anything as drastic as the transformation the oracle went through, but I want to see something significant.
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please just make it able to be built in less than 5 minutes, not a floating sky chandelier, and have at least ONE good move like infestors/HT!?!?
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On November 08 2012 23:44 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked. That's like saying Infestors are useless in ZvP because of feedback. I would argue (like most people) that Infestors are quite strong in ZvP.
That's not even a close comparison. Infestors require a single tech structure which is in the normal Zerg path to Hive and a single upgrade for Infestor Energy. At which point they get an all-purpose, 75 energy AoE spell that damages and roots in addition to the versatility of IT and possibly Burrow Movement (requires an upgrade, but the only upgrade requires affects all Zerg ground units). Raven Production costs 150/100 per Starport + a Tech On top of that, and at least 2 upgrades to be viable. On top of that High Templar aren't even a mainstay unit in Protoss compositions vZ (They're often morphed straight to Archons) because storm doesn't fare incredibly well against Zerg armies. In PvT on the other hand, High Templar with storm are almost necessary to beat bio armies.
Edit: I think Raven's would be fine with a 9 range, faster moving HSM that only cost 100 Energy. After all, it requires an upgrade to use and is (at least in it's current form) extremely easy to dodge- a faster moving HSM would be offset by the longer range so you'd still have time to react. Currently the energy cost is ridiculous (only able to use once per fight?). Auto Turret and PDD are fine IMO.
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On November 09 2012 06:19 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:44 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked. That's like saying Infestors are useless in ZvP because of feedback. I would argue (like most people) that Infestors are quite strong in ZvP. That's not even a close comparison. Infestors require a single tech structure which is in the normal Zerg path to Hive and a single upgrade for Infestor Energy. At which point they get an all-purpose, 75 energy AoE spell that damages and roots in addition to the versatility of IT and possibly Burrow Movement (requires an upgrade, but the only upgrade requires affects all Zerg ground units). Raven Production costs 150/100 per Starport + a Tech On top of that, and at least 2 upgrades to be viable. On top of that High Templar aren't even a mainstay unit in Protoss compositions vZ (They're often morphed straight to Archons) because storm doesn't fare incredibly well against Zerg armies. In PvT on the other hand, High Templar with storm are almost necessary to beat bio armies. Edit: I think Raven's would be fine with a 9 range, faster moving HSM that only cost 100 Energy. After all, it requires an upgrade to use and is (at least in it's current form) extremely easy to dodge- a faster moving HSM would be offset by the longer range so you'd still have time to react. Currently the energy cost is ridiculous (only able to use once per fight?). Auto Turret and PDD are fine IMO.
´ range 9 AND faster AND 100 energy would be broken as fuck. and its just bad because its instant AoE damage from a flying unit. just give raven an AoE over time ability. you can actually balance that and give raven more range.
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On November 09 2012 06:31 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 06:19 Pursuit_ wrote:On November 08 2012 23:44 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 23:14 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 23:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On November 08 2012 22:56 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2012 17:54 Aetherial wrote: Defensive Matrix! This and irrediate, would make me so happy as terran!!! Irradiate isn't strong enough in TvP IMO. How many times do people have to say it? Ravens-Do- Not-Work-In-TvP-Because-Of-Feedback. So you can give the most amazing spell to the raven, it won't work in tvp because it WILL be feedbacked. That's like saying Infestors are useless in ZvP because of feedback. I would argue (like most people) that Infestors are quite strong in ZvP. That's not even a close comparison. Infestors require a single tech structure which is in the normal Zerg path to Hive and a single upgrade for Infestor Energy. At which point they get an all-purpose, 75 energy AoE spell that damages and roots in addition to the versatility of IT and possibly Burrow Movement (requires an upgrade, but the only upgrade requires affects all Zerg ground units). Raven Production costs 150/100 per Starport + a Tech On top of that, and at least 2 upgrades to be viable. On top of that High Templar aren't even a mainstay unit in Protoss compositions vZ (They're often morphed straight to Archons) because storm doesn't fare incredibly well against Zerg armies. In PvT on the other hand, High Templar with storm are almost necessary to beat bio armies. Edit: I think Raven's would be fine with a 9 range, faster moving HSM that only cost 100 Energy. After all, it requires an upgrade to use and is (at least in it's current form) extremely easy to dodge- a faster moving HSM would be offset by the longer range so you'd still have time to react. Currently the energy cost is ridiculous (only able to use once per fight?). Auto Turret and PDD are fine IMO. ´ range 9 AND faster AND 100 energy would be broken as fuck. and its just bad because its instant AoE damage from a flying unit. just give raven an AoE over time ability. you can actually balance that and give raven more range. I actually really like the mechanics of HSM. I of course agree that 9 range AND energy reduction would be OP... I suggested earlier making corvid reactor +50 energy instead of 25... This would allow ravens to have utility earlier but still limit being able to double cast HSM (and keep the time between getting the next HSM - since HSM is the only "spell" that stacks). Overall auto turret could really benefit from a cast range increase... (also, the raven as a whole would benefit if there was a change to FG - range/root/chaining/something...)
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