Prostitution - Page 3
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either I or
116 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States42335 Posts
Personally, I'm for the legalization of prostitution, as long as the environment and business can be safe and well-informed for all parties involved. Not that I'd ever be engaging in the activity (either as a prostitute or calling on one to fulfill my sexual needs), but I'm not about to tell someone they can't do something just because I find it less desirable than taking up a different occupation. For me, it's much like the legalization of drugs... I choose to not personally take drugs (except occasionally drink alcohol), but as long as you're not negatively affecting anyone else's life, and as long as you're educated on the subject, feel free to do whatever you want on your own time. Knock yourself out with whatever drugs you want (just not literally, please). | ||
Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:22 ZasZ. wrote: You have to be careful about this line of thinking. It is free will to choose prostitution because of economical reasons. No one is forcing a poor woman to go into prostitution (unless they are actually forcing her, which falls into the realm of coercion/violence). She could be a maid, or a janitor, or wait tables, or work at McDonald's, but she chooses prostitution because it makes more money than those jobs. That may be a conscious choice of money over values, but it's still a choice. Depends, since your economic needs may vary. The fact that prostitution makes more money than those jobs you listed (for similar training/study requirements) may mean that at the end of the day, it isn't a "choice" because your only options are "make all the money you need" or "make -not enough money- and only pay half of the bills/starve". Some women could be single moms with more than just themselves to take care off, I know here in the Philippines I can't support anyone other than myself at a McDonalds salary. tldr; if you "need" more income, the decision to choose between more or less isn't really a choice. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42335 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:28 either I or wrote: By the way, interesting fact about prostitution in the United States: while prostitution is categorically illegal, with some states enforcing limited legality, it is not illegal to record acts of sex between/among adults. Hence, porn. So it's like... the opposite of Don't Ask Don't tell? If you secretly do it and get paid, you're in trouble. But if you do it with some really bad acting, turn it into a video, and sell it in a store, it's totally fine. | ||
EmperorKira
United Kingdom107 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:28 either I or wrote: By the way, interesting fact about prostitution in the United States: while prostitution is categorically illegal, with some states enforcing limited legality, it is not illegal to record acts of sex between/among adults. Hence, porn. So what you're saying is that, if I get caught having sex with a prostitute, all I need to say was that I was recording it on my phone for porn...and its ok? | ||
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
I saw a documentary once about a girl that did not want to be in prostitution, but thought it was the best option for her. She would be hurt often and miserable, yet men that visited her could supposedly go to sleep with a clear conscience because they did not break the law and did nothing wrong - just engaging in a harmless legal business transaction. But I think that everyone that sleeps with her in a sense violated her, because although she consented to the matter, she did not have good choices available to her. And this leads to her being somewhat defenseless and not being able to really stand up for herself, even if the customers are unpleasant or if she just is not in the mood/needs rest etc. | ||
either I or
116 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:32 EmperorKira wrote: So what you're saying is that, if I get caught having sex with a prostitute, all I need to say was that I was recording it on my phone for porn...and its ok? Not that simple. You have to meet certain conditions: 1. At the time of the act, she is not a prostitute but an adult actor. 2. You need the video and the means to distribute it as proof, I don't think personal collection counts, I have to check. 3. I am also not sure if it is in the entire country, my mistake for generalizing, but I am sure such is the case in California and Miami. On September 29 2012 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: So it's like... the opposite of Don't Ask Don't tell? If you secretly do it and get paid, you're in trouble. But if you do it with some really bad acting, turn it into a video, and sell it in a store, it's totally fine. AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! | ||
Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: So it's like... the opposite of Don't Ask Don't tell? If you secretly do it and get paid, you're in trouble. But if you do it with some really bad acting, turn it into a video, and sell it in a store, it's totally fine. It's also considered art, in some circles. | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
It is wrong to force women to work as prostitues, as much as it is illegal to force them to work as dish cleaners. It is simply morally wrong (and thus must be made illegal) to force anyone to do any kind of work for you. Why should be prostituion singled out? Only because it is often forced? But that is because it is illegal. To put it simply, prostituion should not be even regulated in law (aside of practicallities, as in every field). All the crimes that are allegedly caused by prostitution can be solved by enforcing the relevant law for them, not by illegalizing prostitution. The same holds in my opinion also for example for drug use. | ||
arioch
England403 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:37 opisska wrote: I am seriously pissed with the fact that so many people even consider the regulation of things like prostitution being anobody's business. If a woman wants make money by selling sex, why not? People do all sorts of weird shit for living ... but wait, this is sex, this has to be treated differently. Bullshit! This is just the same stupid fixation on everything sex-related that plagues the mankind. It is wrong to force women to work as prostitues, as much as it is illegal to force them to work as dish cleaners. It is simply morally wrong (and thus must be made illegal) to force anyone to do any kind of work for you. Why should be prostituion singled out? Only because it is often forced? But that is because it is illegal. To put it simply, prostituion should not be even regulated in law (aside of practicallities, as in every field). All the crimes that are allegedly caused by prostitution can be solved by enforcing the relevant law for them, not by illegalizing prostitution. The same holds in my opinion also for example for drug use. I kindof agree, (but not quite as vehemently!) But the regulation issue is important. Although prostitution is perfectly legal in the UK, the lack of regulation and historical taboo associated with it means it is well and truly an underground, seedy thing. This had allowed sex trafficking to be a very real issue, with a lot of the girls here being eastern Europeans who have no choice in their profession. Although the anti regulatory argument you give is nice in principal, the sex trade is by its very nature, prone to attract bad people looking to exploit and profit. I believe it should be brought under a little more regulation, even where it is legal. | ||
Evilmystic
Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:24 Myles wrote: I don't know why it's socialist propaganda, feminist propaganda would probably be more accurate. But besides that, yes, if going into prostitution due to economics is coercion, than most people working are doing it out of coercion. I'm yet to see a reasonable argument that it's ok do be a ditch digger out of necessity, but not ok to be a prostitute for the same reason. Because an idea that you have a right to have a job or even specific job that is not unpleasant or dishonorable is of socialist origin. And it's a flawed idea. I don't care about feminist positions on this matter as I personally don't consider prostitution a bad job, it's as good as any other. On September 29 2012 02:26 either I or wrote: I question this "hunger" factor. Freedom has always been a greater urge than physical comfort. And what is prostitution but a submission and a waiver of this freedom, of one's body and one's will. I think there is something more to it that this basic formula. Prostitution doesn't limit your freedom any more than having to lift heavy things as a loader. And If you are forced into prostitution it's not different from being forced into doing something else as a slave worker. The problem here is slavery and human trafficking and not prostitution. | ||
Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
Given how much of a port city Singapore is (and how much of the male population is frequently tied up in the military) it's pragmatic to do so. | ||
S:klogW
Austria657 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:58 Dfgj wrote: Legal in Singapore. Defined areas for it, workers are health screened, etc. Given how much of a port city Singapore is (and how much of the male population is frequently tied up in the military) it's pragmatic to do so. Pragmatic? You mean encouraging men to buy sex? | ||
Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
/weep | ||
Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:59 S:klogW wrote: Pragmatic? You mean encouraging men to buy sex? The demand already existed. Ensuring health standards and keeping it more to designated areas is a reasonable step to take. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:58 Evilmystic wrote: Because an idea that you have a right to have a job or even specific job that is not unpleasant or dishonorable is of socialist origin. And it's a flawed idea. I don't care about feminist positions on this matter as I personally don't consider prostitution a bad job, it's as good as any other. Prostitution doesn't limit your freedom any more than having to lift heavy things as a loader. And If you are forced into prostitution it's not different from being forced into doing something else as a slave worker. The problem here is slavery and human trafficking and not prostitution. Ah, I see where you're coming from, though I don't really agree that anyone has said that they have the right to have to have a 'good' job, just that they don't have the right to take a 'bad' job. That's actually the problem, they outlaw these 'bad' jobs to supposedly protect people without realizing that they actually create worse situations by doing so. | ||
ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:30 Jojo131 wrote: Depends, since your economic needs may vary. The fact that prostitution makes more money than those jobs you listed (for similar training/study requirements) may mean that at the end of the day, it isn't a "choice" because your only options are "make all the money you need" or "make -not enough money- and only pay half of the bills/starve". Some women could be single moms with more than just themselves to take care off, I know here in the Philippines I can't support anyone other than myself at a McDonalds salary. tldr; if you "need" more income, the decision to choose between more or less isn't really a choice. Is this an issue with prostitution or with economics? Say if another "unsavory" job, like working as a janitor, made more money than any other job (for similar training/study requirements), would people be arguing that it's immoral because poor people are forced into being janitors? Making or keeping prostitution illegal won't change the stratification of economic classes in a particular country, you're going to have to go deeper than that if you want to provide incentives to women not to go into prostitution. Let's take a pragmatic approach here. The demand for sex is constant and persistent, and not everyone can get it for free whenever they want. Thus, the demand for prostitution is relatively constant, as is proven through the resilience of the industry through economic recessions/depressions all over the world. People want to pay for sex. Since there is a demand, there will be a supply, whether through legal or illegal means. The reason the prostitution industry is so dangerous to the prostitutes themselves is because it is illegal. | ||
Arghmyliver
United States1076 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:22 MrF wrote: The oldest profession is hunting/gathering of course, I mean think about it even if the first "civilization" had whores aplenty if people didn't have something to pay/trade with it wouldn't be prostitution so before the john can buy a date he must have gotten the income from somewhere which would be his profession, in a way. Its like the chicken and the egg, which came first the prostitute or the john? Of course I mean one of the oldest professions - obviously for religious prostitution to exist there needs to be religion which implies religious occupations. Also "Hunter/Gatherer" isn't so much a profession pre-historically as "I'm really hungry and I notice that when I don't eat I tend to start dying a little bit" right? Imean - after humans started to develop their tool-use, communication and general intellectual skills it seems like most "professions" would be tribal in nature (i.e. healer/oral historian, tool creation) and I guess you could include hunter/gatherer separately at that point. I guess my point is that most everyone was a "hunter/gatherer" simply by way of necessity until separation of tasks was incorporated into homo sapiens social structure. | ||
Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On September 29 2012 03:02 ZasZ. wrote: Is this an issue with prostitution or with economics? Say if another "unsavory" job, like working as a janitor, made more money than any other job (for similar training/study requirements), would people be arguing that it's immoral because poor people are forced into being janitors? Making or keeping prostitution illegal won't change the stratification of economic classes in a particular country, you're going to have to go deeper than that if you want to provide incentives to women not to go into prostitution. Let's take a pragmatic approach here. The demand for sex is constant and persistent, and not everyone can get it for free whenever they want. Thus, the demand for prostitution is relatively constant, as is proven through the resilience of the industry through economic recessions/depressions all over the world. People want to pay for sex. Since there is a demand, there will be a supply, whether through legal or illegal means. The reason the prostitution industry is so dangerous to the prostitutes themselves is because it is illegal. Uhhh, all I did was comment against the notion that "going into prostitution is still a choice (of free will)", because it's riding on this technical definition of a "choice" rather than what it means to make a "free choice". Unless it was implied somewhere, I dont really have any issues about regulation, morality, etc. Unless I missed something. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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