|
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:48 Praetorial wrote: This is one of the best OPs I've read in General in a long long time.
I honestly have no opinion on the matter, though I can see the argument either way.
Amen. Great OP. I had no idea the problem was exacerbated in Amsterdam after legalization.
I believe prostitution should be legal; however, this will only work if it is heavily regulated. Businesses that want to engage in this trade must obtain proper license after undergoing strict background checks, strong unions must be created for prostitutes to protect them from the tyranny of their bosses and to give them strength to stand up for themselves and protect their interests, prostitutes should only be 18+ (in America), prostitutes must undergo health checks at least once a month, clients must also be cleared (and bring proof of confirmation like a legitimate doctor's note from an approved clinic/hospital) before they themselves can be offered services (confirmation must be recent, within a month or two), prostitutes need to register with an agency before they can be legitimate (allows the government to keep track of them), males (whether prostitute or client) should always be required to use condoms, and prostitutes should not be allowed to solicit customers outside on the streets except in specifically designated areas.
iirc porn stars have some of the lowest rate of STDs (correct me if I'm wrong). With strict regulation this could work. The problem is that it requires a lot of work on the side of the government, and corruption can always be a problem (i.e., someone bribes a doctor to get them to confirm that an individual is STD-free when they actually aren't, or a business lines the pockets of a politician to get them to grant the business a trade license and gets regulatory/enforcement agencies to turn a blind eye to any wrongdoings). Corruption is always a problem in any business though, and I don't think it should be a reason to not legalize prostitution. With proper protection the spread of STDs should be minimal.
|
On September 29 2012 01:55 Asmodeusx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man It's not. Stop repeating dumb sayings. I would imagine offering sexual favours for other favours, aka - if you go out and kill that animal for me I'll let you squeeze my boobies without biting your fingers off - does indeed go back quite a long time in our history. To be honest prostitution is just a natural development in our society, woman use the possiblity of or denial of sex to get their way in all kinds of situations, it stands to reason some people will eventually be making a living off of it. The same with security/guard/bouncer type jobs. I'm sure there were some caveman equivalents of really hard guys that got free food and women just to stand around and look super mean if any cavemen from other tribes came around. The more complex society becomes, the more of these type of positions exist e.g. financial analysts and IFAs. So to say prostitution is the oldest job known to man is extremely logical considering that is first and foremost what we know happened back then... otherwise we wouldn't be here debating this now ;-)
Edit : Voted in favour of prostitution
On September 29 2012 01:56 Evilmystic wrote: There is no reason for any sort of consensual activity between adults to be illegal.
Well said. Applies to more than just prostitution.
There's no point in arguing about drugs, coercion and corruption because these things are all present in every area of life and legalising prostitution can only help to reduce the frequency of these issues.
|
I think it should be legalized. It's just been around so long, and if it's legalized, at least someone higher up might actually know where the women/men are coming from.
|
Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small.
That's just a socialist propaganda. Choice between an unpleasant job and poverty or hunger is as legitimate as any other.
|
On September 29 2012 02:08 xrapture wrote: While it seems silly to make it illegal to provide a harmless service for monetary compensation, you got to look at it from the point of view of women. Sex is the biggest thing they hold over us and they know they can get us to do practically anything for it. Take it away and society may drastically change. This is a troubling view on sex and the gender dynamics. It is borderline chauvinist and essentialist. Sex is merely an act. It may and does exert tremendous influence on people's actions and decision, both men and women, but the details of this dynamics is what we should really look at. It may be empowering for some to consider sexual favors as a form of power play, but is it not the case that they are the first to submit to this mechanism, and ultimately the ones most vulnerable?
|
On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases.
But by that reasoning, only those born obscenely wealthy have free will.
Most MacDonalds workers work due to economic issues. But nobody I know would argue that fast food jobs should be banned for this reason.
A saner line would be "have reasonable alternatives to live above the poverty line other than prostitution". Even that has its own issues, though, the same way establishing a minimum wage has its own effects in a market.
|
Zurich15267 Posts
Those legal / illegal stats seem off. What is their definition of "legal"? No prosecution of sex workers? How about clients?
|
Prostitution should be legal but there needs to be a lot of regulation around the matter and all those religious conservatives will never be convinced.
|
I can imagine that if legal prostitution paid well, for the seemingly little study/training it takes as a prostitute (this one is a big guess by me), that it'd cause more women in 3rd world countries to forgo getting further education once they've realized they can make a small living from doing their first job. For unsuspecting/naiv/young women, this feels like a trap.
|
In Sweden it's legal to sell sex but illegal to buy sex. Which is a fair law I guess, but I'm all for it if it's handled like in Germany. (If what I have heard is true)
|
On September 29 2012 02:16 zatic wrote: Those legal / illegal stats seem off. What is their definition of "legal"? No prosecution of sex workers? How about clients? I did not want to needlessly lengthen the thread when the statistics could be easily acquired from the source, and the definition of legality and illegality is nuanced across the 100 countries. It would be too much or I would be committing grave cultural indiscretion by choosing some and not the others. You can check them out here: http://prostitution.procon.org/
|
On September 29 2012 02:07 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:55 Asmodeusx wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man It's not. Stop repeating dumb sayings. Isn't it though? Like wasn't religious prostitution an aspect of early civilizations (Sumer comes to mind). Not saying it's right or wrong - strictly historically speaking.
The oldest profession is hunting/gathering of course, I mean think about it even if the first "civilization" had whores aplenty if people didn't have something to pay/trade with it wouldn't be prostitution so before the john can buy a date he must have gotten the income from somewhere which would be his profession, in a way. Its like the chicken and the egg, which came first the prostitute or the john?
|
On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small.
You have to be careful about this line of thinking. It is free will to choose prostitution because of economical reasons. No one is forcing a poor woman to go into prostitution (unless they are actually forcing her, which falls into the realm of coercion/violence). She could be a maid, or a janitor, or wait tables, or work at McDonald's, but she chooses prostitution because it makes more money than those jobs. That may be a conscious choice of money over values, but it's still a choice.
As for violent crimes associated with prostitution, I'm confident that the number of violent acts associated with prostitution would drop to near zero levels if the practice was legalized. When a pimp beats up a prostitute under a government where her job is illegal, what is she supposed to do about it? Call the cops? If I come in to work and my boss beats the crap out of me, I go to HR and get his ass fired and press criminal charges. I'm confident in my rights because I did nothing wrong. Prostitutes would feel the same way if their profession was legitimized. On a similar note, if a John decides to rape or beat a prostitute, what is she supposed to do about it? If it was legal, she can press charges, and you can bet the threat of rape charges will keep people within the confines of what they paid for.
|
Nearly every part of the US culture is sexualized in one way or another. You can pay for sexy or the things that lead to sex but not for the actual sex. Never made sense to me.
|
On September 29 2012 02:22 MrF wrote: The oldest profession is hunting/gathering of course, I mean think about it even if the first "civilization" had whores aplenty if people didn't have something to pay/trade with it wouldn't be prostitution so before the john can buy a date he must have gotten the income from somewhere which would be his profession, in a way. Its like the chicken and the egg, which came first the prostitute or the john? On this topic, I recall that a certain species of penguin has the males build nests out of rocks. Sometimes, pregnant females will have sex with one male or another, who will then give a particularly useful rock to the female in question.
|
United States5162 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:13 Evilmystic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small. That's just a socialist propaganda. Choice between an unpleasant job and poverty or hunger is as legitimate as any other. I don't know why it's socialist propaganda, feminist propaganda would probably be more accurate. But besides that, yes, if going into prostitution due to economics is coercion, than most people working are doing it out of coercion. I'm yet to see a reasonable argument that it's ok do be a ditch digger out of necessity, but not ok to be a prostitute for the same reason.
|
yeah I think too that the legal/ illegal stats are full of shit, in france some law passed not long ago that made sex workers very angry I regret not having paid attention back then, nevertheless this is enough not to pay attention to this movement
|
AFAIK it is fully illegal in the USA.... Unless you mean the fact that only the "John" and not the prostitute get in trouble for it, which is I believe how it is over here.
|
On September 29 2012 02:13 Evilmystic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 02:04 Kaeru wrote:On September 29 2012 01:50 noD wrote:As long as they are doing by free will no problem ... It's actually the oldest job known by man I wonder what precentage of prostitutes that do it by free will is. If someone choose prostitution because of economical issues - thats not free will. Thats being pushed into it. Same goes for acknowledgement issues and actually most cases. There might be a small fraction of people that have sex for money by free will - but that number is likely VERY small. That's just a socialist propaganda. Choice between an unpleasant job and poverty or hunger is as legitimate as any other. I question this "hunger" factor. Freedom has always been a greater urge than physical comfort. And what is prostitution but a submission and a waiver of this freedom, of one's body and one's will. I think there is something more to it that this basic formula.
|
On September 29 2012 02:25 Jonoman92 wrote: AFAIK it is fully illegal in the USA.... Unless you mean the fact that only the "John" and not the prostitute get in trouble for it, which is I believe how it is over here. It isn't. It's legal in some areas of the country, and semi-legal in other areas.
Nevada is probably the most prominent example.
|
|
|
|