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I never actually did vote in the first place, but anyways:
##Unvote: Forumite
##Vote: Mattchew
Reasoning: See the entire fucking thread.
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I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
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Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
Wow.
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On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew:
- he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games
- he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
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I suppose. It would take a lot for me to change my vote to be honest, but it would be nice to be able to draw some more info out of people prior to the lynch....
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On September 04 2012 19:55 Bill Murray wrote:
ahhh, man, i just thought I could clear blackmamba and myself via vigilante talk...
i just realized MAFIA HAVE A VIG TOO? ASSUMING it's in the game
i was looking to see if we had a double lynch, but then i guess i should be just trying to break the setup. it would require people to go out on a limb, and I don't want that yet, so i won't propose any ideas until we have consolidated better
current lynch: Mattchew - Reasoning: Claimed a role he can't possibly know he is...
100% logical - 50% he's trolling? doubtful. Positive chance of lynching mafia. If he was blue, I feel like he would have claimed by now. If not, well, he's not playing to the town, and he's showboating... nobody likes a showboat.
Maverick had a bad defense of Mattchew's claim. Now, this wasn't just defending Matt for him to build cred, it was defending a claim that any sane person who was a part of this town would be all over. If he's town, I don't want him in lylo. I urge the vig to take action tonight... maybe even an n-word. This guy could easily be a ninjuitsu. awful. Mafia claiming townie is one thing, but who wants to be in a position of the town we are a part of having to let people off.......?
weigh in on this theory: townies who are found visiting people as nosy neighbors claim tracker?
new FoS presented: Hapahauli. Milton catches him using the word scummy in a way you'd not want to use as town. Admitting something you've done is scummy is one thing, like I did, but the way Hapa used this makes me want to scream scum. His interaction with my 1st suspect Doyouhas is also pretty bad.
Doyouhas looks like he is bussing mattchew to me. He tried to get a quick wagon on a good player (me) who is also a policy lynch (i am... i lurk... play scummy as shit as town... etc) seems like something someone would do with a scum agenda.
Too long, didn't read: FOS Hap, Mav, DYH from thread
prefer to lynch Hap tomorrow ... vig on mav as BlackMamba said
Hey BM - are you proposing that nosy neighbors should do this in the future? That sounds like a terrible policy, it basically sets up a free claim for scum who get caught doing scummy stuff - especially for ninjas using their ninja DT checks.
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On September 04 2012 22:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 13:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:Toad: On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it? 1) He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. 2) Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote. On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia. 3) This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result? On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol 4) The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern 1) As mentioned. I never did. I picked him because he did a terrible post but frankly 50% of all the d1 posts are terrible. Clearly I can't say that to begin with though or I'd have to check out the 101 of pressuring again. 2) No I never thought he was scum based on that post as I already pointed out. I made it look like it to see what's going to happen. Again, it's somewhat like pressure although it's technically not the same. If I tell him "I think your post is stupid but as 50% of the d1 posts are usually stupid it's probably a null" he wouldn't have answered me at all or at least not in a fashion that would have provided any information. Neither would the rest of the thread have started talking about it. 3) More than enough information? It was 3 hours into the game and you keep treating it like I was only trying to get information on sloOsh. Yeah he was the main involved guy but the other people reacting to it (like you still not understanding what actually happened) is equally interessting. Not to mention that I obviously don't talk about my complete reads to openly unless I'm certain the guy in question is a mafia. What I pointed out is a fraction of a read. On his own not worth a damn but it's a piece worth discussing and therefore worth posting although the read isn't anywhere near "completed". If there is such a thing as a completed read. 4) The bolded part was a joke as he said the very same thing himself and I got myself a note in my sheet as well about it saying: Show nested quote +clicky! That's kind of odd. He shouldn't say that if he's a townie. I don't need people to tell me their posts are useful. If your post is useful people are going to figure that out themselves. So it really looks like it he wants to tell everyone how helpful he is or he's honestly pissed. I guess it's a null right now, did the same in L when people finally lynched Sandro and rubbed it into their faces because I'm quite prideful myself. Could be both a prideful townie who's pissed that I'm calling his post bullshit or a mafia who wants to tell people how awesome he is to look better So as I had it down as a null I figured setting the score back to normal by doing the exact same thing with swapped names might work :p
Thing is a reaction is usually only one post. He responded so Im gonna assume you got something from it. You mention others that had interesting reactions, but you haven't drawn any reads from them as well. You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book.
Just to make it clear : What have you drawn for the sloOsh exchange, have others reactions seemed scummy to you? (if nothing say nothing)
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On September 04 2012 12:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 12:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 11:57 Mattchew wrote:
he's trying to say he pm'd palmar now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum. Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here. You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game. devils advocate answers: vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot blue trying to look vanilla No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it"
On September 04 2012 11:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
1. Burden of proof is on you to prove mattchew is lying
2. whether or not it makes sense as a fakeclaim does not indicate his alignment whatsoever. your case is that you know 100% he is lying, ok and on what grounds can you support that? you haven't shown any so far
bad bc You can prove I am lying with 1 action. As you have yet to do so (hey its even in the OP to find out how to prove me wrong). You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead. Use your head DrH. You know how I play and know even as Mafia I don't spout complete bullshit. If I am calling someone out like this I know I am in the right. So in the offchance I am mafia I know hes lying, and as I am town I know hes lying. There is only one way for me to know he is lying given that this is a setup mechanic. Figure out how I know and you then you will know the same thing I do and realize hes fucking lying.
One last thing - I wanted to mention some things I saw in BC's filter. Reading through the thread I was pretty confounded by how assertive he was towards DrH, but it makes sense if he was told by Palmar that he couldn't let the thread know Palmar had modconfirmed that nosy neighbors aren't self-aware.
The other thing is about the repeated not-reading-mattchew's-actual-post and saying he was trying to get blues to claim. I don't really know what to make of this, other than it kind of shows BC is just skimming. We can pretty safely assume that BC isn't the same alignment as Mattchew, so that means he's probably town unless Matt flips assassin; but this still seems kind of odd to me, especially since the thread wasn't extremely long at the point BC called out Mattchew. I haven't played many games with BC so I don't know whether this is a scum tell for him, or if he's just always lazy as town, but hopefully someone who has played more games with him can drop some meta for us.
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Well, I must of skimmed past the FoS on me from Bill Murray, so I'll weigh in a bit.
The reason I was hesitant to jump on Matt was because 'bad play' doesn't equal Scum play. And our goal is to hunt Scum, not hunt bad players. That being said, lying goes a bit beyond 'bad' and starts to seem more scummy.
@Broodking- I re-read your post like 10 times and I have no idea what point you're trying to make...
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On September 05 2012 00:34 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 22:19 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 13:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:Toad: On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it? 1) He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. 2) Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote. On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia. 3) This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result? On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol 4) The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern 1) As mentioned. I never did. I picked him because he did a terrible post but frankly 50% of all the d1 posts are terrible. Clearly I can't say that to begin with though or I'd have to check out the 101 of pressuring again. 2) No I never thought he was scum based on that post as I already pointed out. I made it look like it to see what's going to happen. Again, it's somewhat like pressure although it's technically not the same. If I tell him "I think your post is stupid but as 50% of the d1 posts are usually stupid it's probably a null" he wouldn't have answered me at all or at least not in a fashion that would have provided any information. Neither would the rest of the thread have started talking about it. 3) More than enough information? It was 3 hours into the game and you keep treating it like I was only trying to get information on sloOsh. Yeah he was the main involved guy but the other people reacting to it (like you still not understanding what actually happened) is equally interessting. Not to mention that I obviously don't talk about my complete reads to openly unless I'm certain the guy in question is a mafia. What I pointed out is a fraction of a read. On his own not worth a damn but it's a piece worth discussing and therefore worth posting although the read isn't anywhere near "completed". If there is such a thing as a completed read. 4) The bolded part was a joke as he said the very same thing himself and I got myself a note in my sheet as well about it saying: clicky! That's kind of odd. He shouldn't say that if he's a townie. I don't need people to tell me their posts are useful. If your post is useful people are going to figure that out themselves. So it really looks like it he wants to tell everyone how helpful he is or he's honestly pissed. I guess it's a null right now, did the same in L when people finally lynched Sandro and rubbed it into their faces because I'm quite prideful myself. Could be both a prideful townie who's pissed that I'm calling his post bullshit or a mafia who wants to tell people how awesome he is to look better So as I had it down as a null I figured setting the score back to normal by doing the exact same thing with swapped names might work :p Thing is a reaction is usually only one post. He responded so Im gonna assume you got something from it. You mention others that had interesting reactions, but you haven't drawn any reads from them as well. You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book. Just to make it clear : What have you drawn for the sloOsh exchange, have others reactions seemed scummy to you? (if nothing say nothing)
yeah definitly. That's the reason I asked the not an actual quote but along the lines:
"what do you consider worse:
a) *stupid guy*
b) *softdefending guy*
Mostly I've got a bunch of people who I'd consider to be either lazy because they're not thinking while posting or they're mafia. I'm going to watch that a little more rather than pointing out every single thing I don't like because it's bound to include a mass of people who just don't have a clue what to do which is neither a mafia nor a town treat right now.
Especially considering the people who said those things.
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On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote:
I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia.
He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that.
As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him.
That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore.
As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
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On September 04 2012 23:42 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed. My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims. What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him.
You're not making sense, Mattchew as Tracker needs a night to clear each person. That's three nights of info wasted on finding townies. I find your whole stance on Mattchew strange if not scummy. Someone already pointed out that him as a blue doesn't make sense, and your doubt relies on a roleclaim by Matt. What about Matt's actual play makes you think he is a blue/sasin?
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crap, there goes my 4k post 
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On September 05 2012 00:46 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:42 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed. My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims. What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him. You're not making sense, Mattchew as Tracker needs a night to clear each person. That's three nights of info wasted on finding townies. I find your whole stance on Mattchew strange if not scummy. Someone already pointed out that him as a blue doesn't make sense, and your doubt relies on a roleclaim by Matt. What about Matt's actual play makes you think he is a blue/sasin?
Are you deliberately doesnt understand what I am writing or what? He thought millers are selfaware. I can imagine a scenario where he's a tracker so he came up with a plan to have everyone who's moving claim miller so he can track them. Also he can very well be an assassin. I already explained why I highly doubt he's scum, he has teammates who would have told him about the rules. There is no way he fakeclaimed without discussing it with his buddies first. His play? He did nothing but the claim then disappear. He can be back anytime so I rather not draw conclusions about that.
I won't vote Matt because TL Mafia LIII. VE claimed Jailkeeper D1, I think that was the worst claim of all times. I made the first case on that, it was similar in a way that whether townVE or scumVE it was a very bad claim. We lynched him, and since almost everyone could easily vote on him without any reasoning we had no real info about anyone. Sounds familiar?
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People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
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On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too.
If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
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On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker.
As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
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On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch.
Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him
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On September 04 2012 23:42 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed. My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims. What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him.
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew).
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On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him
The problem I see with your case is that you are trying to create the most unlikely scenario to support your position.. I appreciate your creative thinking.. but it appears that you're just trying to stir up some kind of controversy at this point?
Ox- who will you be voting?
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EPT
