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On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Show nested quote +Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger.
looks like you and me in the thread, toad. You do science, right? You just sitting around taking data too?
Anyway, I just reread this post. Thought it was interesting that no one had commented on it yet.
I certainly agree that misrepresenting history in posts to make your cases seem stronger is a scummy trait, but I'm not sure if that by itself is enough to call him scum#2 like that.
However, given that it's milton's only post, it does draw attention. I'd like to hear something from Milton:
- do you still think hapa is scum?
- what do you have to say about his accusation that you misrepresented the facts?
- do you think he was right or wrong about darthpunk? Does that matter to your read on hapa himself?
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On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Show nested quote +Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger.
Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew.
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P
This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa?
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@ strongandbig
Just noticed your questions. At least part of them are answered in my above post, but I'll answer them anyway.
However, given that it's milton's only post, it does draw attention. I'd like to hear something from Milton:
- do you still think hapa is scum?
- what do you have to say about his accusation that you misrepresented the facts?
- do you think he was right or wrong about darthpunk? Does that matter to your read on hapa himself?
- Yes.
- I did. It was an accident. Somehow I got it in my head that DarthPunk had voted Mattchew at that time. I don't think it's essential to my case against Hapa as can be seen in my above post.
- I'm fine with the way DarthPunk was posting. Hapahauli was concerning himself over a matter of semantics. I think it was pretty obvious who Darth was looking to pressure. I think it's more indicative of Hapa's alignment that he was off-put enough by word choice to vote someone.
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On September 05 2012 04:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. looks like you and me in the thread, toad. You do science, right? You just sitting around taking data too? Anyway, I just reread this post. Thought it was interesting that no one had commented on it yet. I certainly agree that misrepresenting history in posts to make your cases seem stronger is a scummy trait, but I'm not sure if that by itself is enough to call him scum#2 like that. However, given that it's milton's only post, it does draw attention. I'd like to hear something from Milton: - do you still think hapa is scum? - what do you have to say about his accusation that you misrepresented the facts? - do you think he was right or wrong about darthpunk? Does that matter to your read on hapa himself?
Not exactly doing science yet. Still going to university trying to get my next Analysis- and Linear Algebra-bill/-certificate/-whatever-you-call-it-in-english next semester.
Taking a lot of data isn't exactly what you're doing when you're trying to get your maths degree :p
Honestly speaking I saw that post as well and yeah it's a decent point but it's more of a "he's playing bad" than a "he's got to be mafia". I'm exaggerating and lying from time to time as well for multiple reasons.
Don't think it's a specific trait for Hapahauli in either direction yet. Kind of the same feeling I got on sloOsh right now.
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Well, looks like Mattchew slipped and all the noobs on his team are now scrambling.
So....
##Vote: Mattchew
Miltonkram after this lynch?(Assuming that Mattchew flips scum which he will)
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Also Ottoxlol wtf are you doing??? We have a confirmed scum here and you're like not buying it?
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And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town.
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On September 05 2012 05:12 grush57 wrote:
Well, looks like Mattchew slipped and all the noobs on his team are now scrambling.
So....
##Vote: Mattchew
Miltonkram after this lynch?(Assuming that Mattchew flips scum which he will)
Why are you piling on Miltonkram? AFAIK you didn't even offer a single post on the entire Mattchew debacle and now you're trying to chainsaw defend Hapa by drawing associative scumtells?
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@ grush
Do you have an issue with the case against Hapa?
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On September 05 2012 05:16 grush57 wrote:
And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town.
Please follow your own advice. I see very little stance making in your filter and a ton of meh posting.
I know this is part of how you post, but please don't tell others to do what you aren't doing yourself. Lead by example and so on and so forth.
Besides, "coaching" people how to play is typically something done by mafia to feign real activity / helpfullness to the town while providing nothing substantial at all to the game. As a more experienced player you should be aware of this, and before you go "well it was just this one post"
On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum.
On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:24 Shady Sands wrote:On September 04 2012 08:20 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:02 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum? Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously. I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia. Could you clarify what you mean by this point? Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew. I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from NONONOONONO As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.
On September 04 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:30 Shady Sands wrote:On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 08:24 Shady Sands wrote:On September 04 2012 08:20 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:02 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum? Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously. I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia. Could you clarify what you mean by this point? Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew. I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from NONONOONONO As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something. Why? Town needs all the information possible. Mafia will already know this information.If it was a blue vigi shot then the blue willl already know and they won't have to tell town without outing themselves. Mafia will know if there were vigi shots because they killed the other people.
Now, these are just a few of your "contributing" posts. Most of which are extremely void of anything substantial whatsoever. The remainder of your posts are spam and provide basically nothing as a read of you. These however are a very good example of your alignment. Why? Because for someone who talks about wanting people to have as much information as possible, or being able to determine stances of people. YOU DO NEITHER. You have no solid outlined stances, you have not helped at all in further discussion thus giving more information. If you were actually intending on helping you would do exactly what you tell others to do or explain how others can do the same thing.
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@ BloodyC0bbler
I'd also be interested in hearing your opinion on Hapa. Do you think his pressure on Darth was genuine or to provide cover for Mattchew?
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This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me.
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got a little bit to catch up on, but i'm too busy right now - eating subway, have a friend coming over, and am going fishing with my neighbors. all of this may fall through, and i could be stuck with you guys. however, we have a lynch decided, and i have been keeping an eye on the scum interactions (or what i think to be) in the thread, comprising a shortlist (check my filter)
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BC says coaching is scum
bc coaches grush in the same post
*facepalm* smh
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however, I don't think BC is scum, and I feel it is because he has a townread on grush, so it is pretty null. it's just awkward.
so is this.
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On September 05 2012 00:33 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 19:55 Bill Murray wrote:
ahhh, man, i just thought I could clear blackmamba and myself via vigilante talk...
i just realized MAFIA HAVE A VIG TOO? ASSUMING it's in the game
i was looking to see if we had a double lynch, but then i guess i should be just trying to break the setup. it would require people to go out on a limb, and I don't want that yet, so i won't propose any ideas until we have consolidated better
current lynch: Mattchew - Reasoning: Claimed a role he can't possibly know he is...
100% logical - 50% he's trolling? doubtful. Positive chance of lynching mafia. If he was blue, I feel like he would have claimed by now. If not, well, he's not playing to the town, and he's showboating... nobody likes a showboat.
Maverick had a bad defense of Mattchew's claim. Now, this wasn't just defending Matt for him to build cred, it was defending a claim that any sane person who was a part of this town would be all over. If he's town, I don't want him in lylo. I urge the vig to take action tonight... maybe even an n-word. This guy could easily be a ninjuitsu. awful. Mafia claiming townie is one thing, but who wants to be in a position of the town we are a part of having to let people off.......?
weigh in on this theory: townies who are found visiting people as nosy neighbors claim tracker?
new FoS presented: Hapahauli. Milton catches him using the word scummy in a way you'd not want to use as town. Admitting something you've done is scummy is one thing, like I did, but the way Hapa used this makes me want to scream scum. His interaction with my 1st suspect Doyouhas is also pretty bad.
Doyouhas looks like he is bussing mattchew to me. He tried to get a quick wagon on a good player (me) who is also a policy lynch (i am... i lurk... play scummy as shit as town... etc) seems like something someone would do with a scum agenda.
Too long, didn't read: FOS Hap, Mav, DYH from thread
prefer to lynch Hap tomorrow ... vig on mav as BlackMamba said
Hey BM - are you proposing that nosy neighbors should do this in the future? That sounds like a terrible policy, it basically sets up a free claim for scum who get caught doing scummy stuff - especially for ninjas using their ninja DT checks.
i'm not saying we won't be potentially lynching trackers
keeping scum on a leash having to claim every day who they tracked, where they went, etc?
how is that a bad idea?
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On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa?
I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him?
I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded".
Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on.
I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here.
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i mean generally
1) maf don't read the thread as much
2) maf will lie and claim townie(OR NOSY NEIGHBOR LOL) because there are nosy neighbors [see: mattchew]
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On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me.
You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise.
All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him.
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EPT
