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On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here.
I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town
feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum.
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On September 05 2012 05:44 Bill Murray wrote:
BC says coaching is scum
bc coaches grush in the same post
*facepalm* smh
not so much coaching as it is me saying that I am watching him 
I have to explain my reasoning to people or I get auto attacked remember?
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On September 05 2012 05:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise. All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him.
I disagree. His post feels sincere to me. He is letting us know why he hasn't been posting, is apologetic, and truly American.
I don't even care if he's European, dammit, he's acting American. It doesn't matter where he's from.
Why would you want to vig him for this, when you have people like Maverick defending Mattchew?
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On September 05 2012 05:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:44 Bill Murray wrote:
BC says coaching is scum
bc coaches grush in the same post
*facepalm* smh not so much coaching as it is me saying that I am watching him I have to explain my reasoning to people or I get auto attacked remember?
i play support; i rarely auto attack LOL
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On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway.
check this scummy post from forumite
1) misreads the setup
2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit
3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role
FoS: Forumite
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oh, yeah, add rolefishing to a claim, and the "why would you do this?!" or claim this, or whatever he said, seems like scum mad at his partner being stupid
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On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite
I don't get this, please explain
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On September 05 2012 05:52 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise. All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him. I disagree. His post feels sincere to me. He is letting us know why he hasn't been posting, is apologetic, and truly American. I don't even care if he's European, dammit, he's acting American. It doesn't matter where he's from. Why would you want to vig him for this, when you have people like Maverick defending Mattchew?
new player, promising to be active, and if he fails to deliver shoot him. I am not saying do it right this second, I am saying if he fails to honor what he just said to shoot him. You and I both know my rationale for this as it is the most common newbie/lurky mafia trick in the book. If he comes back and follows through on said promise guy is most likely town. I however tend to lock onto people who make this promise and never contribute as it is almost 100% sign of mafia lurker.
It is me pointing out this post to whoever has a gun to be watching this player closely.
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Quite busy and at work--can someone give me a quick summary of stances on the whole mattchew clusterfuck? (eg who pressured who, and when)
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On September 05 2012 05:51 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum.
Possibly but you are giving me reasons in this post that are not really the ones that miltonkram is talking about. Given the specific case he provided I cannot say hapa is scum based on those reasons. Do I think he has had odd interactions? yes, but I think many players this game have done weird shit.
DrH, Sloosh, Strongandbig and you BM are the only ones making posts that I understand why you would make them regardless of your alignment. Newer players still have the "not sure if you are new or scum" read at first as newbies make horrible mistakes that make them look red when they are town sometimes.
I am going to continue reading the thread to find anything that pops out to me and do as I have thus far and commented on it if I believe it needs it but so far most "cases" made are imo are somewhat stretchy however its day 1 and thats to be expected. The fact people are trying to find scum actively does make me insanely happy though, it feels like there will be near to no non posters thus far.
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On September 05 2012 06:00 Shady Sands wrote:
Quite busy and at work--can someone give me a quick summary of stances on the whole mattchew clusterfuck? (eg who pressured who, and when)
Mattchew claimed Nosy Neighbor
BC Callled him out on it
Palmar posted this a little while later:
On September 04 2012 18:17 Palmar wrote:
Nosy neighbours do not know they are nosy neighbours
You're up to date for why we want to kill Mattchew. The productive thing is to read through the interactions around it to find scum.
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On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite
Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation.
Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion.
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On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion.
A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night.
I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared.
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On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared.
On September 03 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote:
Due to slight setup tweaks, mafia now has permanent 2kp. It will not change over the course of the game. Take note, however, that no member of the mafia can deliver more than 1 kp, so effectively the mafia will drop to 1kp when there is only one member left.
The way that reads to me is no single member can deliver more than 1 kp. All I got is the OP + that quote to bank my comment off which states no mafia can deliver more than 1 kp. I would think this means a mafia vig can only use his power or shoot with mafia base KP. I could be wrong I am basing this off on the OP.
As for how a "goon" is cleared it means that they would not be suspected of a shot on dead player x. Watchers only see who visits and a tracker only follows one player. Given that a generic goon can sit his ass at home all game and never be caught on those reasons. As for my point of that forumite doesn't neccesarily have a scum role is that post BM quoted does not scream "i have a scum role" to me.
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Weeeee defending myself.
Firstoff, people please take a look at my post here before you continue pressuring me/whatever:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=23#447
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=23#448
Miltonkram built a case on me based on straight-up lies, and I certainly can't find any townie motivation for it. I find it hard to believe that a townie wouldn't exercise much more care in making a case/pressuring when one basically-confirmed mafia is on the lynch block.
Now on to the rest of it:
@ Ottoxlol
On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone?
Why are you not reading my responses? What part of that post says "I only voted because of BC's confidence?" I found BC's and DP's responses to my question sufficient, and combined with sloOsh's post, I voted for mattchew. It sounds like you want me to fudge some half-assed attempt at an "original contribution" when there was none for me to make. They convinced me and I voted. Simple.
Now as for you, why the hell aren't you voting mattchew? It's beyond thick at this point.
@ BillMurray
On September 05 2012 05:51 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum.
Hrmmmm.... I'm interacting with all the people in the thread in the early game... must be scum... no townie motivation... Right. Didn't they tell you in the newbie games not to infer alignments/connections between people who haven't flipped? That's what I'm telling the newbies I'm coaching for crying out loud.
DoYouHas must be mafia, therefore I must be mafia, therefore everyone who interacted well with me must be mafia? Yuh-huh. Wish I could comment more, but your suspicions are baseless.
Going to get to miltonkram and StrongnBig next post
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BM, he thinks newbie games existed when you first started here har har har har har
You be thought to be a newbie yo.
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On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. 1Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? 2
1) Bullshit. I don't even know how you can construe DP's post as "pressure" if you even bothered to even skim our exchange. I accused DP of not putting pressure on mattchew and instead only criticizing his play. That much you should've realized if you were townie and didn't fudge a case to start a bandwagon.
There was no "backing off" because there was no "pressure." There's no way you would make this mistake as town.
2) My goal was to pressure DarthPunk, and then his responses seemed townie. He instantly replied to everything I had to say and refused to back off his word choice. To me, this seems townie. Am I unjustified here, or are you spouting more shit?
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On September 05 2012 04:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. looks like you and me in the thread, toad. You do science, right? You just sitting around taking data too? Anyway, I just reread this post. Thought it was interesting that no one had commented on it yet. I certainly agree that misrepresenting history in posts to make your cases seem stronger is a scummy trait, but I'm not sure if that by itself is enough to call him scum#2 like that. However, given that it's milton's only post, it does draw attention. I'd like to hear something from Milton: - do you still think hapa is scum? - what do you have to say about his accusation that you misrepresented the facts? - do you think he was right or wrong about darthpunk? Does that matter to your read on hapa himself?
Certainly it's not a 100% scumread, but it's pretty damn close. There's literally no townie motivation to lie to cast suspicion on someone. If it was simply a bad case (poor logic, whatever), it could come from a townie no problem. However, falsifying information is a different matter, and every player I've seen do so in one of my games has flipped mafia.
His relative lurkiness doesn't help his case either. He had one or two fluffposts, then immediately came in on the mattchew bandwagon whilst simultaneously accusing me of being suspicious. Looks pretty damn scummy to me.
Also interesting that he ignored that post until you brought it up SnB... hmmm?
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@ BC
Since you're in the thread, what you think of miltonkram? I've think I've lined out why he's scummy pretty well, and I'd like to hear some thoughts from other players.
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On September 05 2012 06:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Since you're in the thread, what you think of miltonkram? I've think I've lined out why he's scummy pretty well, and I'd like to hear some thoughts from other players.
either scum or town trying really hard to find reasons to justify his read of you. I don't think what he has posted is enough to go on. I say this purely because I have never seen him play before thus have no idea if he knows better then to stretch a generic situation of word choice into the case he did. If he is still new enough to not realize how bad that was then he could be town. If he is experienced enough to know better then possibly scum but still possible bad town. I would like to see him post more than his cases on you and his responses to people asking him for answers before making up my mind.
If you notice I already did address his case on you and said it was lacking.
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EPT
