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Well if he thinks your scum, hes going to ignore your posts against him, or at least treat them with extreme bias. Notice he responds to someone else when they poke at his case and even makes mention of asking if someone else has an issue (grush I believe).
What you or I perceive as bad doesn't mean the person who makes the case does. Getting caught up in the heat of the moment or when you are so sure you are right leads you to do in some cases dumb things as town. Mafia making these mistakes this early is possible as well but seems pretty dumb to do given the current day events. I honestly need him to post more before I can be assured of his guilt as well townies do make bad cases.
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@ Hapahauli
I didn't intentionally misrepresent you. I thought Darth had voted Mattchew before the little back and forth between you two. I was tired after a long day of work, and so I got things mixed around. You can see how scummy that would make you look from my perspective when I first made the case against you.
@ BC
On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here.
I see your point. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.
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On September 05 2012 07:08 Miltonkram wrote:@ Hapahauli I didn't intentionally misrepresent you. I thought Darth had voted Mattchew before the little back and forth between you two. I was tired after a long day of work, and so I got things mixed around. You can see how scummy that would make you look from my perspective when I first made the case against you. @ BC Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see your point. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.
Problem is that it wasn't just the vote. You had a second bit as well, and that's way too coincidental:
Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read.
Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post.
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@ Hapahauli
Well then we're at a difference of opinion. I don't count your attack on DarthPunk as seriously pursuing a scum read.
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Seriously pursuing a scumread only hours into the game?
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On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:08 Miltonkram wrote:@ Hapahauli I didn't intentionally misrepresent you. I thought Darth had voted Mattchew before the little back and forth between you two. I was tired after a long day of work, and so I got things mixed around. You can see how scummy that would make you look from my perspective when I first made the case against you. @ BC On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see your point. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. Problem is that it wasn't just the vote. You had a second bit as well, and that's way too coincidental: Show nested quote +Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post.
The whole point of his case is that you pushing DP wasn't a real scum read, it was errant Day 1 bullshit. Which most of the thread was at that point. I still think he's scummy because that's a shitty case at the time it arose, but it's reasonably consistent, despite the misinformation.
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derp ninja'd so hard by the both of you
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On September 05 2012 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:On September 05 2012 07:08 Miltonkram wrote:@ Hapahauli I didn't intentionally misrepresent you. I thought Darth had voted Mattchew before the little back and forth between you two. I was tired after a long day of work, and so I got things mixed around. You can see how scummy that would make you look from my perspective when I first made the case against you. @ BC On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see your point. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. Problem is that it wasn't just the vote. You had a second bit as well, and that's way too coincidental: Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post. The whole point of his case is that you pushing DP wasn't a real scum read, it was errant Day 1 bullshit. Which most of the thread was at that point. I still think he's scummy because that's a shitty case at the time it arose, but it's reasonably consistent, despite the misinformation.
imaninja o.o
But in all seriousness, I'm trying to find out milton's standard for "seriously pursuing a scumread." What does he want me to do - spew suspicions all over the thread on hour 2 of the game?
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@ Hapahauli
You honestly think I'd intentionally misrepresent one of the more active posters and expect it not to get caught? I see your point, and now I understand the townie reasoning for the back-and-forth between you and Darth. I get it, it's not as scummy as my initial impression of it was.
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So I take it you don't think of me as scum anymore? If so, then who else do you find suspicious? I haven't seen you comment on any other player yet.
What do you think of Bill Murray? He actually called your case a "good observation."
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EBWOP: Actual BillMurray quote:
@Milton another good catch. Notice the interaction with Doyouhas? Seems like scum coaching. "Hey, your vote on BM sucks"
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I just woke up. I'm still catching up but here's my sense of where the game is:
1. Mattchew is an assassin and the scum are the people who came in after the fact or way after the fact and voted without saying a lot. They didn't think critically about the situation and say things like "well he lied....so ##vote mattchew".
2. Mattchew is scum and people who defended him today (post-Palmar) and people who come in way way way after the fact with more empty posts and bullshit (cough...grush57...cough) need to be tracked or vig'd. If Mattchew flips red then Ottoxlol needs to die tonight and so does either Miltonkram or Maverick. The chances that the whole scum team is pinned Day 1 doubtlessly? Pretty slim. In a situation like this, I think at least one will go rogue or try to buddy up to me. I am pretty wary of Bill Murray so there's that.
Not really useful but:
I think Rewok could be an assassin, there are no town motivations to his posts whatsoever but not really any scum ones because they are too bad. I don't feel he has any town motivations but I also sense little to no direction in his posting. Assassins you might want to hit him. Same thing with any super lurkers or people like Gravan.
By the way:
NEVER LYNCH ASSASSINS IF YOU"RE SURE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played was one where everyone wanted to lynch a confirmed assassin because "we lynch anyone not pro-town". No, we lynch SCUM and ONLY SCUM.
I've read a little while writing this post so as an addendum, ottoxlol's early defense of mattchew basically comes down to some weak conditional things that I already said like "yeah he could be a tracker or something trying to blah blah blah" but the simplest answer is more often than right one. Maybe he is a dumb tracker or a dumb assassin, but the simpler answer is better. The fact that he isn't here defending himself well either speaks volumes. the less information he gives us, the better, right? Of all the things you could have said to defend him, the fact that he chose some weak hypothetical that I had already considered when voting for him is bullshit. Kill this kid if Matt flips red.
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On September 05 2012 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:On September 05 2012 07:08 Miltonkram wrote:@ Hapahauli I didn't intentionally misrepresent you. I thought Darth had voted Mattchew before the little back and forth between you two. I was tired after a long day of work, and so I got things mixed around. You can see how scummy that would make you look from my perspective when I first made the case against you. @ BC On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see your point. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. Problem is that it wasn't just the vote. You had a second bit as well, and that's way too coincidental: Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post. The whole point of his case is that you pushing DP wasn't a real scum read, it was errant Day 1 bullshit. Which most of the thread was at that point. I still think he's scummy because that's a shitty case at the time it arose, but it's reasonably consistent, despite the misinformation.
Just like my early premature vote on Hapahauli in Death Note made me scum? It's not scummy.
What's scummy, hapa, isn't his case, it's that he's avoiding talking about the relevant happenings in town and pointing out something completely different. Here's what happens when one scum has heat on him or one scum is majorly involved in some sort of town argument/drama:
Little scum come out and say "oh, yeah this is interesting what's going on but look at random poster X, he did something kinda a little weird so we should lynch him instead!"
And maybe it was a little weird. I personally don't like hapahauli's playstyle and it gave me the wrong impression of him in Death Note. A lot of people auto-assume I'm scum because I say policy lynches are stupid, I'll never vote for someone for lurking, I'll never post "reads", I don't answer peoples questions if I think they're dumb, etc. I think that Milton made a mistake worth looking into and if you couple that with the fact that he posted it how he did and when he did, yeah it's suspicious. I think vigilantes or trackers should take a serious look at this dude tonight. If Mattchew does flip blue or black or whatever though, then that means there isn't much of a case beyond someone made a kinda bad case or a mistake and that doesn't totally indicate alignment. Not enough to lynch him over all the shitstorm that will occur whenever mattchew flips what he does.
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On September 05 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I just woke up. I'm still catching up but here's my sense of where the game is:
1. Mattchew is an assassin and the scum are the people who came in after the fact or way after the fact and voted without saying a lot. They didn't think critically about the situation and say things like "well he lied....so ##vote mattchew".
2. Mattchew is scum and people who defended him today (post-Palmar) and people who come in way way way after the fact with more empty posts and bullshit (cough...grush57...cough) need to be tracked or vig'd. If Mattchew flips red then Ottoxlol needs to die tonight and so does either Miltonkram or Maverick. The chances that the whole scum team is pinned Day 1 doubtlessly? Pretty slim. In a situation like this, I think at least one will go rogue or try to buddy up to me. I am pretty wary of Bill Murray so there's that.
Not really useful but:
I think Rewok could be an assassin, there are no town motivations to his posts whatsoever but not really any scum ones because they are too bad. I don't feel he has any town motivations but I also sense little to no direction in his posting. Assassins you might want to hit him. Same thing with any super lurkers or people like Gravan.
By the way:
NEVER LYNCH ASSASSINS IF YOU"RE SURE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played was one where everyone wanted to lynch a confirmed assassin because "we lynch anyone not pro-town". No, we lynch SCUM and ONLY SCUM.
I've read a little while writing this post so as an addendum, ottoxlol's early defense of mattchew basically comes down to some weak conditional things that I already said like "yeah he could be a tracker or something trying to blah blah blah" but the simplest answer is more often than right one. Maybe he is a dumb tracker or a dumb assassin, but the simpler answer is better. The fact that he isn't here defending himself well either speaks volumes. the less information he gives us, the better, right? Of all the things you could have said to defend him, the fact that he chose some weak hypothetical that I had already considered when voting for him is bullshit. Kill this kid if Matt flips red.
the biggest change I would make to this is. If its day 1 (like today) and your options are sure kill on assassin or random lynch on someone who could flip town (day 1 reasoning's for lynches usually aren't the best) then I'd take the assassin.
Only reason for this is if you aren't sure on your lynch choice and the option is deff not a townie I would opt for that.
I also think I know what game you are referencing.
What do you think of the last page or two's worth of posts? There has been some moderately decentish talking compared to last night.
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Hi all. Just woke up. Mattchew still hasn't even bothered to defend himself and it seems as if he is playing scum, resigned to his fate, and not letting any info out. So at this point if you aren't voting for him you better have a good reason.
Explanations like this:
On September 05 2012 03:55 Ottoxlol wrote:@austinmcc I mean mistake like bad play, whatever is his alignment he shouldn't have claimed. Tell me why is it more likely that he did it as scum then blue/assa? So everyone thinks that he did not communicate with his scumbuddies. THATS speculation. I think he is not scum. Why? We have zero information other than he did a fake-claim and everyone jumped on the wagon. No one answered why did they, other than Toads very weak- close to nothing meta reasoning. + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 03:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:04 Ottoxlol wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone? And I'm going to make it easy on you. I answered the question here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. and Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense I really hope town will read this too. Since you are still ignoring my question, quiet deliberately and your early gameplay I think you are scum ##Vote: Toadesstern actually LOL this is a scumslip: Are you telling me you're not town? You got me :D Nice ignoring my question for the 5th time in a row. You claim to be not newbie right? So then why is your reasoning so weak? Are you making these up on the go? You broke under the smallest pressure lol
Are not good reasons. Generally the simplest explanations are the best. I see no town motive or agenda that would make sense in terms of lying and fakeclaiming to the entire thread. The explanations that you have provided, whilst possible are certainly not plausible and definitely not logical.
I sense some sort of desperation to avoid matt's lynch? Is this the case or do you actually believe that it is more likely he made some sort of Suicidal play as a blue role? I think we could agree that a VT would never claim nosy neighbour. What would the point be.
So Mattchew's case comes down to this. He is a blue that lied and wants to survive if tracked. Or he is Scum who wants to survive if tracked.
Survival instincts are a mafia trait as town can afford to die. To take such risks as a blue makes far less sense than to take them as a red.
I mean it is pretty obvious that matt is scum, and I fail to understand why you would defy all logic and reason in order to defend someone who is blatantly guilty.
In regards to the whole hapa/milton thing. I was not really pressuring matt with my post. I just failed to understand why you would instavote someone who questioned you. I did find it strange that hapa jumped all over me immediately when to me it was pretty clearly anti town.
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On September 05 2012 09:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I just woke up. I'm still catching up but here's my sense of where the game is:
1. Mattchew is an assassin and the scum are the people who came in after the fact or way after the fact and voted without saying a lot. They didn't think critically about the situation and say things like "well he lied....so ##vote mattchew".
2. Mattchew is scum and people who defended him today (post-Palmar) and people who come in way way way after the fact with more empty posts and bullshit (cough...grush57...cough) need to be tracked or vig'd. If Mattchew flips red then Ottoxlol needs to die tonight and so does either Miltonkram or Maverick. The chances that the whole scum team is pinned Day 1 doubtlessly? Pretty slim. In a situation like this, I think at least one will go rogue or try to buddy up to me. I am pretty wary of Bill Murray so there's that.
Not really useful but:
I think Rewok could be an assassin, there are no town motivations to his posts whatsoever but not really any scum ones because they are too bad. I don't feel he has any town motivations but I also sense little to no direction in his posting. Assassins you might want to hit him. Same thing with any super lurkers or people like Gravan.
By the way:
NEVER LYNCH ASSASSINS IF YOU"RE SURE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played was one where everyone wanted to lynch a confirmed assassin because "we lynch anyone not pro-town". No, we lynch SCUM and ONLY SCUM.
I've read a little while writing this post so as an addendum, ottoxlol's early defense of mattchew basically comes down to some weak conditional things that I already said like "yeah he could be a tracker or something trying to blah blah blah" but the simplest answer is more often than right one. Maybe he is a dumb tracker or a dumb assassin, but the simpler answer is better. The fact that he isn't here defending himself well either speaks volumes. the less information he gives us, the better, right? Of all the things you could have said to defend him, the fact that he chose some weak hypothetical that I had already considered when voting for him is bullshit. Kill this kid if Matt flips red. the biggest change I would make to this is. If its day 1 (like today) and your options are sure kill on assassin or random lynch on someone who could flip town (day 1 reasoning's for lynches usually aren't the best) then I'd take the assassin. Only reason for this is if you aren't sure on your lynch choice and the option is deff not a townie I would opt for that. I also think I know what game you are referencing. What do you think of the last page or two's worth of posts? There has been some moderately decentish talking compared to last night.
Something seems really off about BM to me and it's giving me a bad feeling but I can't really justify it. I think he might be third-party.
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I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.
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On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post.
Wait so which was it? Were you pursuing a scum read or not? It seems as if you are contradicting yourself somewhat. I don't think it is a lie to say you were not seriously pursuing a scum read because, as you say, It was a couple of hours into the game and the information at hand was negligible. You state that seriously pursuing a scum read at that point would be absurd, and then state that he is lying when he says you were not seriously pursuing a scum read.
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On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.
Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread.
Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc....
It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out.
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