Back on topic, I had the same feelings about Ash as you did. I was not impressed with the interactions I had with her.
Mass Effect 3 - Page 143
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Buzzworth
United States14 Posts
Back on topic, I had the same feelings about Ash as you did. I was not impressed with the interactions I had with her. | ||
Medrea
10003 Posts
On March 29 2012 01:11 Quotidian wrote: The fact that ME3's ending even got implemented makes me very curious about the creative culture at Bioware. Was this ending simply handed down from one extremely powerful person at Bioware, and no one dared tell that person that the ending was shit? Apparently there was a different ending imagined at some point, so there must've been some kind of iterative process.. so how did we end up with Hologram Kid? If the ending was a malleable structure all the way through development, you'd think someone would raise their hand in a board meeting at some point along that process and raise some important questions. Or was this just a budget issue? With Dragon Age 2 and now ME 3, Bioware's standards are dropping very quickly. I just don't get what's going on-- it's like they haven't been able to adjust to their success and are instead just falling apart. Depending on whose blogs you read or believe or comments made before they were taken down: This is not very far from the truth. Lead writer went rogue and wrote the ending himself with no supervision or control. You can even tell the EXACT moment this happens. | ||
Mastermyth
Netherlands207 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:45 Buzzworth wrote: There was a scene where I yelled at the screen, where you are talking to Liara on the Citadel and the option for 'I want to be more than friends.' popped up. I almost reloaded when Shepard gave his reply... because that was not what I wanted him to say. I . Lol this happened to me too, but it wasn't even reconnecting. I hadn't romanced her before and was mostly just clicking through the paragon option only to find myself cheating on Ash and declaring my love for Liara. Luckily I saved right before. | ||
Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On March 29 2012 05:04 Medrea wrote: Depending on whose blogs you read or believe or comments made before they were taken down: This is not very far from the truth. Lead writer went rogue and wrote the ending himself with no supervision or control. You can even tell the EXACT moment this happens. yes, but even lead writers have to answer to someone... and the lead writer on ME3 (Mac Walters) doesn't seem like a powerful person at all, where he should've been able to force a shitty idea through. I guess the blame ultimately falls on the lead designer/producer/The Doctors | ||
Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Fans of the "Mass Effect" franchise who were disappointed in the new title's ending have found many outlets for their anger at Bioware and the game developers who they say phoned in the ending to the video game space-opera. The game players have found a number of ways to express their fury. The newest, and perhaps most creative, protest came in the form of 402 cupcakes delivered to Bioware's offices in Edmonton, Alberta. The cupcakes, which came from a local Canadian bakery, arrived with a short note to Bioware developers: "As fans, we want Bioware to do right by us, and fix the endings for Mass Effect 3. But we also want to let Bioware know, that we trust them, and have faith in them. Bioware has been slammed by negativity from all sides in the last few weeks. This is our way, as fans, to drive our message home, but in a (literally) sweet way. We want Bioware to add some more 'sweet' to their 'bittersweet' ending. What better way to do this than with CUPCAKES :-D." The cupcakes were colored red, blue and green with A, B or C written on each one in icing. This is likely a jab at executive producer Casey Hudson in response to his statement defending the "Mass Effect 3" ending. "It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C," he said. "The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." The protest was quickly organized online by "Retake Mass Effect 3," a group of video game-obsessed fans united in order to pressure Bioware to change the game's ending. Fundraising for the culinary protest started on March 26 and quickly raised more than the $1005 necessary to pay for the cupcakes. According to the fundraising page, each fan who donated to the protest was allowed to send along a short personal note of their own, with the caveat that they not be offensive, derogatory or insulting. Since practically the day that "Mass Effect 3" went on sale, fans have complained that the ending is unimaginative and that despite the promise that the game's outcome would be based on the choices each player made, all possible endings were essentially the same. Fans have protested largely by massing on gaming forums and blogs to express their dissatisfaction. Their collective voices have already won several responses from Bioware developers, who have spoke out against the ending, claiming it was rushed and even hinting that a complete ending will be made available in the near future. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320429/20120327/mass-effect-3-ending-protest-fans-cupcakes.htm | ||
Medrea
10003 Posts
On March 29 2012 06:23 Quotidian wrote: yes, but even lead writers have to answer to someone... and the lead writer on ME3 (Mac Walters) doesn't seem like a powerful person at all, where he should've been able to force a shitty idea through. I guess the blame ultimately falls on the lead designer/producer/The Doctors I think it was Casey that wrote the ending, him and the lead anyway, and they didnt get it peer reviewed. On March 22 2012 05:06 Iyerbeth wrote: Yeah that's basically it. An interesting post has come to light from someone (not on the Bioware forum) and then deleted, claiming to be from a writer of the game. Whilst not confirmed (and there are good reasons to think it might not be real), it is certainly interesting, so I'll copy it here as it was copied to pastebin before being removed. Edit: Spoilered for length. Also contains stuff that could be considered spoilers. Second Edit: According to Bioware the writer was Patrick Weekes, and he has said he didn't write this, although other posts and tweets attributed to him are accurate (including one stating that the ending was in fact done without review). + Show Spoiler + I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc). No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft. And honestly, it kind of shows. Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewed. And again, it shows. If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as: Galactic Alliances, Friends, Organics versus Synthetics. In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me -- every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message. The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them. I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye. For me, Anderson's goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a cutscene of Earth that was either: a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT. c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah. Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour. I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have enough cutscene differentiation on it. And to be clear, I don't even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes -- all three of them. | ||
Redox
Germany24793 Posts
If they had just played it safe and would have gone for a standard Hollywood cliche ending, in the spirit of the commercialism they were accused of, the customers would have been much happier. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 29 2012 06:28 Ferrose wrote: + Show Spoiler + Fans of the "Mass Effect" franchise who were disappointed in the new title's ending have found many outlets for their anger at Bioware and the game developers who they say phoned in the ending to the video game space-opera. The game players have found a number of ways to express their fury. The newest, and perhaps most creative, protest came in the form of 402 cupcakes delivered to Bioware's offices in Edmonton, Alberta. The cupcakes, which came from a local Canadian bakery, arrived with a short note to Bioware developers: "As fans, we want Bioware to do right by us, and fix the endings for Mass Effect 3. But we also want to let Bioware know, that we trust them, and have faith in them. Bioware has been slammed by negativity from all sides in the last few weeks. This is our way, as fans, to drive our message home, but in a (literally) sweet way. We want Bioware to add some more 'sweet' to their 'bittersweet' ending. What better way to do this than with CUPCAKES :-D." The cupcakes were colored red, blue and green with A, B or C written on each one in icing. This is likely a jab at executive producer Casey Hudson in response to his statement defending the "Mass Effect 3" ending. "It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C," he said. "The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." The protest was quickly organized online by "Retake Mass Effect 3," a group of video game-obsessed fans united in order to pressure Bioware to change the game's ending. Fundraising for the culinary protest started on March 26 and quickly raised more than the $1005 necessary to pay for the cupcakes. According to the fundraising page, each fan who donated to the protest was allowed to send along a short personal note of their own, with the caveat that they not be offensive, derogatory or insulting. Since practically the day that "Mass Effect 3" went on sale, fans have complained that the ending is unimaginative and that despite the promise that the game's outcome would be based on the choices each player made, all possible endings were essentially the same. Fans have protested largely by massing on gaming forums and blogs to express their dissatisfaction. Their collective voices have already won several responses from Bioware developers, who have spoke out against the ending, claiming it was rushed and even hinting that a complete ending will be made available in the near future. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320429/20120327/mass-effect-3-ending-protest-fans-cupcakes.htm This is genius. | ||
Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
I'm just going to pretend this happened after you got to the beam. | ||
Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
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procyonlotor
Italy473 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:01 Antisocialmunky wrote: This made me feel better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zagpVInvjA I'm just going to pretend this happened after you got to the beam. That's actually... a lot better than what actually happens. I could have accepted that, deus ex machina notwithstanding. Probably still wouldn't have been able to replay the series just to end that way, but I would have at least put it to rest. | ||
Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Of after killing TIM... Shepard blows it up after getting shot in the face by a space ship (problem Garrus?) killing all the reapers et al without all the BS star child exposition. Seriously, the ending would have been the weakest part of the game but its only really after the elevator ride up that it really becomes poor. | ||
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:24 turdburgler wrote: i felt the whole crucible idea was pretty weak tbh, not just the starchild. it was a touch odd that in such a character driven game the reapers are beaten by a machine that is nothing to do with you. theres no missions on or around it. i guess if they had actually bothered to tie the war assets in to the game (another thing people seem to be letting go because they are so concentrated on a tiny detail) there would of been a good chance to involve the crucible more. The Death Star was killed by shooting torpedos down an air vent. Almost verbatim ditto for the second Death Star. Immaterial. The way the Reapers die is almost irrelevant. The fact remains that the universe banded together because of Shephard, and the symbol of that unity (The Crucible) is the tool that killed the Reapers. It may be a bit deus ex-y, but really after how much ass the Reapers kick throughout the game, it's impossible to see how civilization was going to live without pulling something out of our asses. Again, though, the point is that the unity is what should have killed them. Not some choice made because of a holo kid. | ||
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
and then at random times the story just forgets these facts and people lose all hope of killing even a single reaper. if they kept the reapers power consistent they wouldnt need to invent the starchild or crucible or any of that stuff to explain how to defeat them. and the deathstar wasnt simply some rockets, it had to be luke who fired them, guiding them with the force because the computer wasnt reliable. where as anyone could of gotten to that beam by luck, and saved the daye | ||
Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:30 Takkara wrote: The Death Star was killed by shooting torpedos down an air vent. Almost verbatim ditto for the second Death Star. Immaterial. The way the Reapers die is almost irrelevant. The fact remains that the universe banded together because of Shephard, and the symbol of that unity (The Crucible) is the tool that killed the Reapers. It may be a bit deus ex-y, but really after how much ass the Reapers kick throughout the game, it's impossible to see how civilization was going to live without pulling something out of our asses. Again, though, the point is that the unity is what should have killed them. Not some choice made because of a holo kid. Holy crap I read your comment in Mordin's voice and it fit. Though still a little bit verbose for a true Scientist Salarian. I felt a bit weird about the Udina thing though, you never see concrete evidence, then the game forces you to kill him before the elevator doors open, and 2 CSec'ers walk out. Wait, what? None of the councillors are the least bit suspicious of Shepard/Bailey? It could easily have been Bailey (and/or Shepard) in bed with Cerberus and saving humanity with Udina an unfortunate but dispensable casualty of Cerberus? Udina may have drawn a gun on the Asari because he needed to open the elevator doors to let what he knew was CSec in? Eh, minor badly worded/composed scene rubbed me a little wrong and I had to rant about it on the internet, I guess. No big deal. Still an amazing game though, despite some truly heart-wrenching deaths. | ||
Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On March 29 2012 11:20 turdburgler wrote: the thing about the reapers kicking ass though, is that their power seems to fluctuate so rapidly to fit each part of the story. on tachunka, 1 dies to a worm, you can kill the one of earth with little more than 2 small rockets. another dies on the geth planet from some concetrated first. the story states the reapers are not more powerful than the galaxy combined, they won by disabling the mass relays (or controlling them or whatever) and taking out each area 1 by 1. simplying following these facts you could have an honest fight between them and your forces, maybe the crucible would lower their shields if you wanted to include it that badly. the point is they arent gods. and then at random times the story just forgets these facts and people lose all hope of killing even a single reaper. if they kept the reapers power consistent they wouldnt need to invent the starchild or crucible or any of that stuff to explain how to defeat them. and the deathstar wasnt simply some rockets, it had to be luke who fired them, guiding them with the force because the computer wasnt reliable. where as anyone could of gotten to that beam by luck, and saved the day. Tuchanka-it's a big worm. Like a thresher maw. The armor on the one you fought in ME2 was huge. Like enough to withstand a mininuke at close range tough. Seems logical it can survive a laser then pulp a destroyer. Earth-like they said, Thanix missiles do a f***ton of damage. If you read the codex, they're like nukes with reaper technology attached. Sovereign's main gun was reverse engineered to make them. Rannoch-the fleets don't have nukes, they have lasers(ME particle accelerators if you're being picky). They are highly accurate but lack nukage power. That's where the precision strike thing comes in. They only show destroyers being killed. Not the Sovereign-class Reapers which are nigh-invincible. Only one in the ME3 is shown being damaged, and it then proceeds to kill an Alliance cruiser. | ||
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
would it not be a simpler story, that could be more about the main hero, and involve you more, if all reapers were the same, and beatable (just about). digging yourself a hole isnt a good defence | ||
Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On March 29 2012 11:50 turdburgler wrote: so what your saying is, because they (for no decent reason) decided to declare there are 2 types of reaper, they then needed to invent a weapon for the second type that we need to build. would it not be a simpler story, that could be more about the main hero, and involve you more, if all reapers were the same, and beatable (just about). digging yourself a hole isnt a good defence It would be much better than creating a genetically enhanced army of space worms, yes. Besides, there are a whole lot of reapers(and only one you). How you gon' kill them all without a big space laser superweapon? (even if they were beatable-Sovereign wasn't) | ||
ampson
United States2355 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + and then there's a fucking starchild and an ending that has almost nothing to do with anything and all the mass relays blow up and the game ends. | ||
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