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On July 08 2011 22:34 Hekisui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 21:28 Jedi Master wrote: lol? BW is way to old and Viewer Unfriendly. Look at the 2frame animations... BW should just die and all the BW-Pros should try to make SC2 a better game for the viewers.
SC2 is the perfect RTS for eSports and it would be even better with BW gone.
Two frame animations is actually why SC BW is better. Unit animations make unit response chunky. In Sc2 after you give you orders you first have to watch for the in build latency of 250ms. Then you have to watch your unit do their movement animation frames. And only then will it have turned around. Vultures in SC BW respond almost instantly because they don't have to do any animations. They are crisp to control.
MKP's marine micro would like to talk to you.
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On July 08 2011 22:43 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 22:34 Hekisui wrote:On July 08 2011 21:28 Jedi Master wrote: lol? BW is way to old and Viewer Unfriendly. Look at the 2frame animations... BW should just die and all the BW-Pros should try to make SC2 a better game for the viewers.
SC2 is the perfect RTS for eSports and it would be even better with BW gone.
Two frame animations is actually why SC BW is better. Unit animations make unit response chunky. In Sc2 after you give you orders you first have to watch for the in build latency of 250ms. Then you have to watch your unit do their movement animation frames. And only then will it have turned around. Vultures in SC BW respond almost instantly because they don't have to do any animations. They are crisp to control. MKP's marine micro would like to talk to you. That's mostly because the animation of marines is one of the shortest in the game. :p
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On July 08 2011 22:34 Hekisui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 21:28 Jedi Master wrote: lol? BW is way to old and Viewer Unfriendly. Look at the 2frame animations... BW should just die and all the BW-Pros should try to make SC2 a better game for the viewers.
SC2 is the perfect RTS for eSports and it would be even better with BW gone.
Two frame animations is actually why SC BW is better. Unit animations make unit response chunky. In Sc2 after you give you orders you first have to watch for the in build latency of 250ms. Then you have to watch your unit do their movement animation frames. And only then will it have turned around. Vultures in SC BW respond almost instantly because they don't have to do any animations. They are crisp to control. Even when Blizzard fixes the ball vs ball AI, this will still be in the way of making SC2 superior to SCBW. As for graphics, many people play on the lowest settings, which are uglier than SC BW.
Units may be more responsive, but the AI can be completely ridiculous to work with. Even with these differences, however, each game requires finesse. The finesse for each game is punctuated by different aspects, but they still require a great deal of practice to master.
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On July 08 2011 22:40 PlosionCornu wrote:That's right though, fangirls don't even know/care about the game itself, they like the player's looks and that's it. I always find this amusing in and for itself, even if it ends up saddening me anyway.... It's not true though. Fangirls not only know about the game itself, they also play a fair bit of it. They're not as competitive as the guys but they do have knowledge of the game and discuss about it.
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why can't we never have civil-friendly discussions these days ?
also: some confirmation would be lovely, but the GOM quote might be that?
again, we don't really know what is true and not, and even more can't start to predict the future of Blizz/Kespa/Gom future relations, but i have to also say: Kespa won't all the sudden stop supporting/doing Brood War, i just can't see that happen when the game is still going good, the players are still rockstars, and the games they play gets better and better
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On July 08 2011 22:49 SmoKim wrote:why can't we never have civil-friendly discussions these days ? also: some confirmation would be lovely, but the GOM quote might be that? again, we don't really know what is true and not, and even more can't start to predict the future of Blizz/Kespa/Gom future relations, but i have to also say: Kespa won't all the sudden stop supporting/doing Brood War, i just can't see that happen when the game is still going good, the players are still rockstars, and the games they play gets better and better
The Gom quote could easily be taken as.
" we had no knowledge of this rumor until later," Just taking from english translation that seem very biased. If Gom knew. I doubt it would be a rumor and not something that had been announced
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On July 08 2011 22:48 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 22:40 PlosionCornu wrote:On July 08 2011 21:44 Megaliskuu wrote: CUT That's right though, fangirls don't even know/care about the game itself, they like the player's looks and that's it. I always find this amusing in and for itself, even if it ends up saddening me anyway.... It's not true though. Fangirls not only know about the game itself, they also play a fair bit of it. They're not as competitive as the guys but they do have knowledge of the game and discuss about it. Which is backed up by the fanchanting during tense moments and most of them sitting on their seats edge during a great game.
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Anything involving KESPA abandoning BW is bullshit.
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On July 08 2011 22:43 JiPrime wrote: MKP's marine micro would like to talk to you.
Numbers don't lie. What players can do despite the inherent limitations of the SC2 game engine doesn't speak to the credit of the SC2 game engine. And the SC2 engine was actually supposed to be designed for esports and play at 200 apm.
On July 08 2011 22:47 aksfjh wrote:
Units may be more responsive, but the AI can be completely ridiculous to work with. Even with these differences, however, each game requires finesse. The finesse for each game is punctuated by different aspects, but they still require a great deal of practice to master.
Compared to how the ball vs ball AI negatively affects the game at the highest level, the SC BW pathing is basically completely irrelevant. All players already know that the pathfinding fails if you order it to a certain place. So the bug never actually enters play. Obviously it's bad that it is there. Blizzard could have fixed it but contrary to belief they abandoned SC BW pretty quickly and only did superficial patches.
And do you realize that SC2 pathfinding actually still has the same problem? It just occurs way less often. But the general problem is still there. And that despite units being able to push each other away.
And skill wise SC2 doesn't compare to SC BW. How is SC2 harder than WC3?
The article says that Kespa will help Blizzard make WotS. This is what we called for before beta because we realized Blizzard was clueless about SC BW and RTS esports. But Blizzard was at battle with Kespa so they didn't listen and made an inferior game compared to what they could have done. SC2 is not esports proof.
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This isn't supposed to be BW vs Sc2...
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Im amazed by the shalowness of some people on this forum being unable to see the big picture, we all know TL is a big community and that its visited by almost everyone following BW and SC2 and some people who don't play at all but like checking it out.
So a rumor gets released about "Blizzard discussing options with KESPA"
You get people divided into few groups GOM Lovers (of which myself am one) KeSPA and Blizzard haters and the KeSPA lovers due to the fact of TV channels.
Some are worried BW will die, some that foreigners will get shut down if KeSPA enters SC2 community etc.
What your failing to realize this discussion is good for all parties involved directly or indirectly.
GOM with their current expirience proved they do a remarkable job and might even outclass KeSPA (and imho it will, its just a matter of time) Korea is just one Country and even though its the most developed ESport one SC2 provides options of development that BW did not (don't want to explain this too much, you get it or you don't)
With the current cooperation GOM has with foreigners they will have overall support over KeSPA by anyone sane, and they could already do something like UFC did with Spike and im sure they're capable of getting their matches streamed by other channels, and a strong possibility of starting channels like OGN, MBC and entering lucrative partnerships.
Hell If I was a GOM executive I'd release this sort of rumor if I had a deal going on that I want to make sure to suceed.
Simply put GOM isn't going anywhere, its going EVERYWHERE.
The other reason for releasing such a rumor would be Blizzard trying to get bids up once contracts expire, but this is not their M.O. so I highly doubt it.
And all 3 companies have much smarter people then myself, so people... relax, enjoy the game and have fun at the end of the day thats whats important.
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On July 08 2011 22:56 Megaliskuu wrote: This isn't supposed to be BW vs Sc2... HA! You made it that way. lol
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My new pet peeve: SC2 fans prefacing their comments with 'i love BW but...'.
No, you don't love BW.
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I never compared the games, I only commented on the state of their respective scenes.
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On July 08 2011 22:48 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 22:40 PlosionCornu wrote:On July 08 2011 21:44 Megaliskuu wrote: CUT That's right though, fangirls don't even know/care about the game itself, they like the player's looks and that's it. I always find this amusing in and for itself, even if it ends up saddening me anyway.... It's not true though. Fangirls not only know about the game itself, they also play a fair bit of it. They're not as competitive as the guys but they do have knowledge of the game and discuss about it.
I was not aware of that, I just assumed that they were akin to fangirls of other sports (like soccer)...
I'm happy to learn that that's not the case.
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On July 08 2011 22:55 Hekisui wrote: Numbers don't lie. What players can do despite the inherent limitations of the SC2 game engine doesn't speak to the credit of the SC2 game engine. And the SC2 engine was actually supposed to be designed for esports and play at 200 apm.
Animation time has nothing to do with SC2's engine. SC2's engine is more than capable of replicating BW in every way (except being 2d).
Not gonna bother with the rest of this troll post, just clearing that up for anyone who doesn't know.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49045 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:58 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 22:56 Megaliskuu wrote: This isn't supposed to be BW vs Sc2... HA! You made it that way. lol
you are quick to point fingers.
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On July 08 2011 22:58 shurgen wrote: My new pet peeve: SC2 fans prefacing their comments with 'i love BW but...'.
No, you don't love BW.
Well at least it stops the instant aggro.
We love both BW and SC2.
We just love SC2 more.
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ooh, i def prefered osl msl proleague format vs gsl
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On July 08 2011 15:01 RaLakedaimon wrote: People saying that BW should phase out because of graphics aren't true SC believers imo and when SC3 comes out they will be the ones saying "SC2 is shit because they don't have the new shader effects" lol.
But saying graphics is the main reason is ridiculous, most players I watch play even SC2 on all low without all the fancy stuff. Yes, many players is playing on low or medium settings to get rid of all the fancy and shiny stuff ingame that can be annoying when YOU ARE PLAYING. But the fact is that observers and streamers can show the game in ultra settings and the game looks pretty damn fine when you do that. And in todays market graphics is a huge part to get new players to your game and even sponsors. Can you see ATI or any other company advertise their new monster GFX in Brood War when the game can be played on my homemade computer I made of some bread and my toilet seat? No, of course not. But they can advertise it for Starcraft 2 because the graphics is there.
We who already love Starcraft for what it is doesn't care about graphics, but people outside of our world do and thats why no one is going down to the gamestore and is thinking like "Oh man, Im gonna by SCBW because I've heard that is an awesome game that requires alot of skill!". More likely: "Oh im gonna buy SC2 because all my friends is playing it and the graphics are so good!".
The same is happening with the best FPS in the world, CS 1.6. The scene is dying, sponsors moving to Starcraft 2 and other better looking games because they can't advertise new stuff in 1.6 because the game is so old and graphics doesn't appeal to anyone except the core players.
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