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Improved Terran Macro Mechanic

Forum Index > SC2 General
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skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-16 01:54:01
July 14 2009 17:43 GMT
#1
The core of my Terran macro mechanic is still the Orbital Center, so if you could understand how my OC works, you’d get what I say easily. The thread is a bit too long, meaning it is a huge challenge to both my English and your patience.

Note: all datum below can be modified if needed.
-------------------------------------------

My Orbital Center

◆ Has a maximum energy of 200.

◆ Can produce 2 units:

1.SCV (S).

2.Mule (M).
cost: 25 mineral, 0 gas
supply: 0
build time: 8 seconds
(Note: mule has a permanent life)
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. Imagine that orbital center is protoss carrier, then mules are just interceptors that can only gather minerals rather than attack.

2. Mules are produced through a separate production line, meaning you can produce one SCV and one mule simultaneously in an Orbital Center.

3. Once a mule is ready, it will go out of the Orbital Center and gather minerals nearby automatically.
(Just imagine what an interceptor will do when it is ready and there are enemy units around).

4. Mules gather minerals in a totally different way from that of SCVs, so they won't affect SCVs' mineral gathering and vice versa.

One mule deals with two mineral patches at a time, bringing back 12 minerals every 15 seconds if it is at full capacity. You need 4 mules to fully cover a mineral line with 8 patches, and an Orbital Center can hold up to 5 mules.

5. The most important thing is that Mule have a maximum energy reserve of 20 points, and mineral-gathering cost it 10 energy per trip.
Once there is not sufficient energy, mule will stand still, doing nothing but waiting for its energy to recover.

6. It is worth noting that mule's energy regenerates extremely slow, and won't regenerate at all when mining, therefore one of the Orbital Center's skill, the "Distant Energy Charge" is essential if you want to get the most out of mules.


◆ Has 4 skills:

1. Scan Sweep (C)
- Target: anywhere on the map. (AOE)
- Energy cost: 50

2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.


3. Distant Energy Charge (E)
- Target: any allied unit having energy. (AOE)
- Energy cost: 50
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. How it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “C” and left click an allied psionic unit, then it will have up to 75 energy restored instantly, while other allied units around it will gain up to 25 energy.

2. Note: Once a unit is Energy-Charged, it cannot be charged again within 20 seconds. That is to say, if you "Energy Charge" a ghost three times in succession, it will only gain 75 energy at most rather than 225.


4. Reinforcing Drop Pod (D)
- Target: any of your ground units, except for Thors and Mules.
- Energy cost: 125.
- Resource required: depends on use.
- Supply required: depends on use, 4 at most.
- Cool down: 60 seconds.
(After your Command Center is upgraded into an Orbital Center, You have to wait 60 seconds before you can use this skill)
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. Use this skill on a single ground unit, then a drop pod will land nearby in seconds, from which spawns a small squad (taking up 4 supply at most) of the same units as the one you target.

2. This skill need not only energy but also minerals and maybe gas, which equal to the actual cost of the troops you summon.

3. Since the limit supply for a reinforcing troop is 4, you can call down a squad of one of the followings per drop:
- 4 scvs or marines or reapers (4 supply);
- 2 marauders or hellions (4 supply);
- 1 ghost or tank (3 supply).

4. Examples of how it works:

Select your Orbital Center, press D and left click a marine of your own, then you'll see a drop pod with 4 marines inside coming down from the sky. At least 200 minerals and 4 surplus supply are required.

Doing the same thing on a tank will bring you a drop pod with 1 tank in it, costing 200 minerals / 100 gas and 3 supply.

5. The drop pod itself is a permanent structure with 200 hp that grant you visual field around. It won't disappear for no reason.

6. Note: if you cannot produce an unit, you cannot call down any of them. For example, Reinforcing Drop Pod won’t work at all if you use it on a ghost while all of your Ghost Academies are destroyed.


More explanations about my macro mechanic:
+ Show Spoiler +

1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

3. The basic way to use the mechanic:
Produce 4 mules as soon as possible then go back to your Orbital Center every 30 seconds, use "Instant Energy Charge" on a mule, to make sure that all mules in this mineral line are benefited as well, thus you can keep the mules working all the time and make the most out of them, to expect for a good amount of extra resource in return.

4. The basic way is far from being the only way, for you may often tend to use other skills, or use “Energy Charge” on other units. Here are several examples:
+ Show Spoiler +

- You are plotting a high-tier unit rush, say a stupid Thor rush, you’ll be willing to invest 75 energy to the factory, so that Thor can come out 12 seconds earlier.

- A big battle breaks out and your front position is in jeopardy, you’ll not hesitate a moment to calls down as many drop pod as possible, despite the massive energy cost.

- You just suffered from a severe harassment, after which many of your SCVs were killed. Under such adverse circumstances, you’d use “reinforcing drop pod” to call down 4 additional SCVs, and even use “Production Acceleration” on your CCs to quickly recover your damaged economy.

- You want to do a tank drop on the cliff near enemy base as early as possible. You may invest 75x2 energy on your factory and after that another 75 energy on your starport, to accelerate the production of both tanks and medivac dropship. After you successfully deploy two tanks on the cliff, you would like to see another tank coming down, so you’ll invest 125 energy to call down “Reinforcing Drop Pod” if your Orbital Center still has enough energy

Combing the “Reinforcing Drop Pod” and “Production Acceleration” with your imagination means infinite tactics, while the “Distant Energy drop” is not Mules’ private treasure, it belongs to all units having energy. It may mean longer cloaking duration for ghosts/banshees, more hunter missiles for ravens, to be able utilize Yamato Cannon more often for battle cruisers, etc. So you may not deem it as a boring skill to just increase macro, I think even casual gamers may like it.

5. Note that Reinforcing Drop Pod cannot replace medivac dropship, for it only drop corresponding units near the current one, to say that you cannot call down a tank on the cliff if there’s no tank there, or you cannot call down SCVs on an island unless you have at least one SCV there.

6. You may realize from above that the new drop pod mechanic is not over-powered. It partly is a Terran answer to Protoss’ warp-in and Zerg’s Nydus cannel, not as powerful but still cool and useful. And the ability of Production Acceleration can be seen as a solution to MBS. Rather than hotkey all your barracks/factories/starports to a single key and click X repeatedly to produce units, you need interact more with production buildings if you want more from them, which is also an important part of macro, or more exactly here, the base management.

7. Adding to the mule mechanic, mules are Orbital Center’s “interceptors”, so all mules will return to its “Carrier” once OC lifted up; and if an OC is destroyed, all its mules will be killed too. Besides, one mule occupies one transportation slot, thus if you build 5 mules for an Orbital center, it won’t be able to transport SCVs anymore.

8. You don't have to go back to mineral lines and charge mules all the time. There is a upgrade called Neo Reactor in Fusion Core. After the research is completed, all Terran psionic units, inculding mules, will gain an additional restoration rate of 1 energy per second. Thus, mules will keep working by themselves most of the time.


Any ideas?

Btw, if you guys don’t find it annoying, I may post my Protoss and Zerg macro mechanics someday later.
by.Fantasy
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
July 14 2009 17:52 GMT
#2
I'm just wondering why it can't cloak
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
AdunToridas
Profile Joined December 2008
Germany380 Posts
July 14 2009 17:52 GMT
#3
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...
« People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger that my best friend was born in a manger? »
sudo.era
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States300 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 19:00:28
July 14 2009 18:16 GMT
#4
Having a unit that you can't control for any significant period of time would not feel fun, especially if it's not doing anything. It'd be painful for a mule to shut down in some spot where it becomes annoying visual clutter (ie, anywhere).

What you've failed to do - and this is the most important part - is explain why it's better than the current system. Your reasons for why it's better aren't too convincing.

1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

There is already plenty of depth in having to decide whether you spend energy on scans or mules. And you can't have too many abilities because... well, let's think about how it affects scans.

Scans are essential, and in that they are the staple for balance. The more abilities you have, the more you have to balance their use with scans. If a scan costs a realistic amount of energy (say, 50), then the ability to employ other energy-costing abilities becomes stifled, and they would hardly - if ever - be used. If a scan costs too little energy, then Terrans begin to have an unfair dominance over cloaked and burrowed units.

Regardless of either option, the abilities you list would be seldom used. And, having even one ability in-game that's only useful on uncommon occasions isn't an attractive ability. The more abilities you add, the less any of them will be used.

2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

I don't think mules are dull, though if you have a problem with them, that's more to do with visuals than mechanics. How is timed life not Terran style? You're not being descriptive and reinforcing your points.

The fact that they die after a period of time perfectly solves the problem of having visual/spacial clutter. And, their 'timed life' is justifiable in the sense that mass-marketed technology in today's world is always built with a limited lifespan on purpose - so that you have to buy (a) replacement(s). And Terrans basically are humans, so...

I'd hit the rest of your points, but I have to get back to work.
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5420 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 18:48:10
July 14 2009 18:47 GMT
#5
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 19:06:48
July 14 2009 19:00 GMT
#6
Youve got some creative ideas here. Couple notes

-I kinda like the idea of Permanant MULEs if they are sufficently differentiated from SCVs. I think this is an idea worth pursueing.

-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.

-The Terran already have a production acceleration mechanic in the Reactor.

-Giving units energy is already an ability on the Protoss Obelisk.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Chodorkovskiy
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Israel459 Posts
July 14 2009 21:00 GMT
#7
On July 15 2009 04:00 Archerofaiur wrote:
-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.


This is what the thread distills down to for me. I want drop pods back in, too. Problem is, Terran already have the late game Mobile Infantry (with real guns) in Marines & Medivacs. Drop pods add little to the Terran tech tree, other than flair.

If Medics are back in, though, and Medivacs are back out... call me.
"Retards like you need to be eliminated from the gene pool." --mensrea about you.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
July 14 2009 23:04 GMT
#8
Don't you see that Blizzard is just taking advantage of the community by saying "We aren't sure of what we are going to do," and then just having us come up with all of the content?

Shade692003
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada702 Posts
July 15 2009 00:18 GMT
#9
On July 15 2009 03:47 SoleSteeler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!



That idea totally reminds me of Age of Mythology. The Egyptians could use their pharaoh to bless a single building (channeling spell) which reduced the time needed for the building to do research/construct units. Was pretty nifty.
I hate the post below mine because it feels War3-ish.
0neheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States92 Posts
July 15 2009 00:47 GMT
#10
age of mythology was awesome, it was like my 2nd rts ever lol
Beaudereck
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada140 Posts
July 15 2009 02:07 GMT
#11
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.
Opopos
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
July 15 2009 02:32 GMT
#12
Does this not make this building mandatory for every game? Will it restrict the BOs to revolve around this building? Four skills are a bit overpowered for one unit/building, it sounds like a WC3 hero that's stationary.

It also sounds like the mothership. Drop Pods sounds really nifty and looks like a good harass spell.
Send in a Marine and get two OCs to add another 8 of them. GG drones. But imagine you send in Helions (i assume they'll be 2 supply) and use two OCs on them. With the micro capabilities of players these days, will it be a bit overpowered to allow the spells to be used on? Won't this seem too much like a recall?

@ Production acceleration - I have got the feeling that SC2 will degenerate into macro wars. Will 75 energy be worth spending on one unit's production time? Of course, it will have its uses, but when a game goes into late game, all you'll want to spend this skill on is producing BCs if you even go for that tech.

Recap
- Will it be imbalanced?
- Is the macro spell really that helpful?
- Will it restrict build orders in the game that everyone will go for it, or will it be an option that a player needs a distinct build order to go for?

I remain neutral about the mules and energy recharge, only to say that they seem protoss-ish.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
July 15 2009 02:33 GMT
#13
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
July 15 2009 02:36 GMT
#14
I thought they were the actual game mechanics at first, but it will be interesting to see if the actual game measures up to this.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 02:36 GMT
#15

-I kinda like the idea of Permanant MULEs if they are sufficently differentiated from SCVs. I think this is an idea worth pursueing.

Yes, in my theroycrafting, Mules are very different from SCVs, they are in fact a part of the orbital center, less efficient than SCVs but an important supplement.

-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.

The drop pod mechanic is rather plain and easy, you use it on a marine then you got additional marines, you use it on a tank then you got additional one, ect.
-The Terran already have a production acceleration mechanic in the Reactor.

So, the production acceleration works much well for tech-lab required units, especially expensive higher-tier units that require a long time to produce.

-Giving units energy is already an ability on the Protoss Obelisk.

Yes, argus link does so, but in my Protoss macro mechanic, it is no longer there. I ever tried to put all my ideas for the three races in a thread, but failed for there would be too many words....
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 02:42 GMT
#16
On July 15 2009 11:33 Archerofaiur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D

Archerofaiur, would you please quote your thread with the ideas where mine "come from" here?
Honestly, I've not read it yet, I will be happy if I share similar ideas with someone else.
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-16 01:59:04
July 15 2009 03:02 GMT
#17
On July 15 2009 11:32 sArite_nite wrote:


- Will it be imbalanced?

Production acceleration is less powered than the queen's larva, drop pod is less powered than nydus cannel and warp-in in mid and late game, while more intimidating in early game and in some radical gameplay. Besides, all of them can easily balanced.
- Is the macro spell really that helpful?

I think yes, but in different tactics/buiding orders, they may have different potential and different efficiency.
- Will it restrict build orders in the game that everyone will go for it, or will it be an option that a player needs a distinct build order to go for?

I think not, in contrast, it may encourage different build order. If you are focusing economy, 4 more scvs from drop-pod and keep mules working through Distant Energy Charge will be of much help. If you are going a harassing gameplay, to accelerate the production of key units, to get some more of them from drop-pod would make your tactics more powerful.....

I remain neutral about the mules and energy recharge, only to say that they seem protoss-ish.

Yes, but they would be very Terran-like if I can show you my photoshop works, which are still in progress, to illustrate how they work. Though I tend to give up the photoshop works now, much too hard than predicted ... :>
Just imagine that you can get much help from space station now...
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 03:16 GMT
#18
On July 15 2009 09:18 Shade692003 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 03:47 SoleSteeler wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!



That idea totally reminds me of Age of Mythology. The Egyptians could use their pharaoh to bless a single building (channeling spell) which reduced the time needed for the building to do research/construct units. Was pretty nifty.

Ha, but I've never played this game.
by.Fantasy
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27148 Posts
July 15 2009 03:29 GMT
#19
On July 15 2009 11:42 skypacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 11:33 Archerofaiur wrote:
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D

Archerofaiur, would you please quote your thread with the ideas where mine "come from" here?
Honestly, I've not read it yet, I will be happy if I share similar ideas with someone else.


I think he meant the quality of the ideas were the same, not the ideas themselves.
ModeratorGodfather
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 03:30 GMT
#20
On July 15 2009 03:16 sudo.era wrote:
Having a unit that you can't control for any significant period of time would not feel fun, especially if it's not doing anything. It'd be painful for a mule to shut down in some spot where it becomes annoying visual clutter (ie, anywhere).

What you've failed to do - and this is the most important part - is explain why it's better than the current system. Your reasons for why it's better aren't too convincing.

Show nested quote +
1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

There is already plenty of depth in having to decide whether you spend energy on scans or mules. And you can't have too many abilities because... well, let's think about how it affects scans.

Scans are essential, and in that they are the staple for balance. The more abilities you have, the more you have to balance their use with scans. If a scan costs a realistic amount of energy (say, 50), then the ability to employ other energy-costing abilities becomes stifled, and they would hardly - if ever - be used. If a scan costs too little energy, then Terrans begin to have an unfair dominance over cloaked and burrowed units.

Regardless of either option, the abilities you list would be seldom used. And, having even one ability in-game that's only useful on uncommon occasions isn't an attractive ability. The more abilities you add, the less any of them will be used.

Show nested quote +
2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

I don't think mules are dull, though if you have a problem with them, that's more to do with visuals than mechanics. How is timed life not Terran style? You're not being descriptive and reinforcing your points.

The fact that they die after a period of time perfectly solves the problem of having visual/spacial clutter. And, their 'timed life' is justifiable in the sense that mass-marketed technology in today's world is always built with a limited lifespan on purpose - so that you have to buy (a) replacement(s). And Terrans basically are humans, so...

I'd hit the rest of your points, but I have to get back to work.

More hits are welcomed. I admit that I am not descriptive enough...
by.Fantasy
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