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Do all top zergs have perfect macro?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
tdotkrayz
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States136 Posts
February 16 2009 23:59 GMT
#1
Well, I noticed one significant difference between foreigner zergs, and foreigner tosses or rans. All the zerg players pretty much have perfect macro the entire game. I mean, in a way this is kind of expected since zerg players don't need to be bothered with jumping back to base to macro and can simply 5sz6sz7sh8sh9so during he middle of a battle. And even when you have 8 bases, you can still have perfect macro by going 5su6su7sz8sz9sz0sz. So far, I've watched Xiaozi, Castro, f91, and Jaedong reps and they all have near perfect macro the entire game. Only mondragon seems to slip a bit at times... Does that mean zerg macro is the easiest out of the three once you get to a high level? Unfortunately, I think this also means that zerg players are not really complimented for their macro... I mean, nobody says, omg how does iloveoov or BeSt macro like that????? to a zerg player. So, does this mean, zerg at the highest level is distinguised by micro and decision making alone, since macro is a non-issue? Is this why Jaedong and sAviOr are so dominant among zergs? Because they have insane decision making and micro?

This probably means I should switch races cuz I really don't like having a ceiling on my macro. For example, in tvz, there's practically no ceiling cuz it's near impossible to manage 5 control groups of mnms with vessels while maintaining perfect macro (except for FlaSh).

ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
February 17 2009 00:00 GMT
#2
yes.
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
February 17 2009 00:03 GMT
#3
IMO its just that you NEED to have really good macro has a zerg. Since your army relies heavily on size starting mid game on ZvP and a little bit later on ZvT thanks to Lurkers. The best example would ve a ZvT against mech. You just NEED to make units nonstop.

Also, thats why i lose. :[
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-17 00:11:10
February 17 2009 00:06 GMT
#4
Zerg macro because of it's uniqueness took me forever to even do at a "passable" rate. I still build too few units during battles and I still don't build enough hatcheries.

The thing that helps me though is that you hotkey hatcheries and build before a big battle/drop/harass, Do it once during if it's a long engagement, and then do it AGAIN after the battle.

This will usually keep my hatcheries running really solidly until my speed can't keep up anymore due to defiler micro or ensnare or a doom drop + middle battle. That i'm hoping will simply come from additional experience.

Like mentioned before though, Zerg macro is really unforgiving. Not only does the race entirely rely on overwhelming numbers, but they have the hardest method of macroing to go along with it. Sure it builds faster because of lack of queues, but the lack of queues is what makes it more unwieldy.

Any really competitive zerg will absolutely need damn near perfect macro to be a viable threat to other players at a high level.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
February 17 2009 00:07 GMT
#5
I think Zerg macro is a lot more complicated than any other races due to the larvae system. So while each player is able to keep their money lower than T/P on average there are other factors influencing how "good" their macro is (i.e. drone count, base count). Obviously, perfect zerg macro would yield the most possible drones while having enouh army to be able to stop a T or P army.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
February 17 2009 00:09 GMT
#6
AH COME ON, how often do you really look at their hatcheries??? Do you really think you can hotkey every single hatchery you have? Have you ever watched a zvp? Have you ever watched a macro oriented zvt?
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
tdotkrayz
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States136 Posts
February 17 2009 00:11 GMT
#7
On February 17 2009 09:09 Cloud wrote:
AH COME ON, how often do you really look at their hatcheries??? Do you really think you can hotkey every single hatchery you have? Have you ever watched a zvp? Have you ever watched a macro oriented zvt?


Have you ever heard of ultralisks? 5su6su7su8su

BAM, 1200 minerals and gas are spent
Clasic
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
February 17 2009 00:11 GMT
#8
I think zerg macro is way easier for me. When I'm toss its a 14 minute max, but as Zerg, I don'
t even know how fast lmao.
No no no no its not mine!
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
February 17 2009 00:13 GMT
#9


look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
February 17 2009 00:13 GMT
#10
On February 17 2009 09:11 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:09 Cloud wrote:
AH COME ON, how often do you really look at their hatcheries??? Do you really think you can hotkey every single hatchery you have? Have you ever watched a zvp? Have you ever watched a macro oriented zvt?


Have you ever heard of ultralisks? 5su6su7su8su

BAM, 1200 minerals and gas are spent


The fact of the matter is that a majority of games simply do not last till ultralisks. Yes, once you get to ultralisks macro becomes relatively easier.

However, mid-game macro? Muta-Micro + macro is hard, Ling-Hydra->Lurker macro is hard, defiler micro + flank + macro is hard.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
February 17 2009 00:13 GMT
#11
On February 17 2009 09:11 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:09 Cloud wrote:
AH COME ON, how often do you really look at their hatcheries??? Do you really think you can hotkey every single hatchery you have? Have you ever watched a zvp? Have you ever watched a macro oriented zvt?


Have you ever heard of ultralisks? 5su6su7su8su

BAM, 1200 minerals and gas are spent


I think that's a 'No"
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
February 17 2009 00:14 GMT
#12
On February 17 2009 09:11 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:09 Cloud wrote:
AH COME ON, how often do you really look at their hatcheries??? Do you really think you can hotkey every single hatchery you have? Have you ever watched a zvp? Have you ever watched a macro oriented zvt?


Have you ever heard of ultralisks? 5su6su7su8su

BAM, 1200 minerals and gas are spent


Holy shit, you are totally right. You just made me realize, you dont need more than 2 hatcheries the whole game! 6 larvae -> 6 ultra -> 1200/1200 minerals/gas spent in a split of a second, easiest shit ever.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
February 17 2009 00:20 GMT
#13
You don't hear people complimenting Zergs on their macro because by macro we generally mean keeping your money low and that's only a small and very easy part of Zerg.

The difficult part of Zerg macro is part of what we call game management (and almost all great Zergs were famous for their game management), it's knowing when to spend your money on what and getting away with using as many larvae as possible for drones while still maintaining an army to keep T or P at bay.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
tdotkrayz
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States136 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-17 00:27:18
February 17 2009 00:24 GMT
#14
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
February 17 2009 00:29 GMT
#15
On February 17 2009 09:24 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...


More like 3000+ half of the game, going 4000+ few parts of the game :D
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
February 17 2009 00:31 GMT
#16
On February 17 2009 09:24 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...


Actually Bisu played pretty down right terrible against By.Hero. ZvP has long lost it's imba luster unless you're playing on TOTM
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
lokiM
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3407 Posts
February 17 2009 00:45 GMT
#17
On February 17 2009 09:24 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, if you re-watch it he was spending all his gas as it came in, he had 2k minerals with under 100 gas almost the entire time, he can't spend his minerals as much as he wants to, if he has no gas.
You can't fight the feeling.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
February 17 2009 00:46 GMT
#18
On February 17 2009 09:45 lokiM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:24 tdotkrayz wrote:
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, if you re-watch it he was spending all his gas as it came in, he had 2k minerals with under 100 gas almost the entire time, he can't spend his minerals as much as he wants to, if he has no gas.

Every other zerg can do it,he shouldnt be an exception.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
February 17 2009 00:48 GMT
#19
On February 17 2009 09:46 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2009 09:45 lokiM wrote:
On February 17 2009 09:24 tdotkrayz wrote:
On February 17 2009 09:13 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OCFQhJNok

look mineral count, definetly some improvement ;D


ROFL, and this is the zerg that beat Bisu? With over 2000 minerals in the bank for half the game against sea.ruby!!!! Wow, pvz really is imba then...

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, if you re-watch it he was spending all his gas as it came in, he had 2k minerals with under 100 gas almost the entire time, he can't spend his minerals as much as he wants to, if he has no gas.

Every other zerg can do it,he shouldnt be an exception.


It's possible to be gas starved....

That's exactly what happened here, he was simply gas starved and without gas no hydras/lurks/defilers etc etc. Making mass lings in that situation isn't exactly feasible because you have a limited amount of larva.

He could have built more hatcheries but him being gas starved makes it a moot point.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7222 Posts
February 17 2009 00:51 GMT
#20
In ZvT it's not that uncommon to have over 2k minerals late game because your army is gas-limited not minerals limited. Sometimes zergs like July who are more aggressive put down an additional 4 hatches at once and start pumping lings, but more often the zerg just waits until the game presents him a moment of map control to expand or fights on with the surplus after his minerals at main/nat are mined out.
日本語が分かりますか
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