Update: go to page 4 for the discussion about whether the first video really shows grad missiles. For now I still believe it is correct. __________________________________________________________________
The Israeli army has set up a youtube channel showing footage of aerial attacks against Hamas in Gaza from these past few days.
(CNN) -- Israel has taken its barrage of airstrikes in Gaza to the Web, creating a YouTube channel this week to post footage of its air force dropping bombs on Hamas targets. The Israel Defense Forces has posted 16 videos so far of its recent airstrikes in Gaza.
The Israel Defense Forces has posted 16 videos so far of its recent airstrikes in Gaza. more photos »
An initial message by the Israel Defense Forces posted on the channel, youtube.com/user/idfnadesk, said Israel wanted to use YouTube to "help us bring our message to the world" with "exclusive footage showing the IDF's operation success" in Gaza.
An IDF spokesman said YouTube was a way to get that message "to as many as we can," though he declined to comment further.
The YouTube channel is just one multimedia platform Israel is using to spread its message on the recent campaign in Gaza, which began Saturday.
The Israeli Consulate in New York also launched a Twitter feed Monday, which it has used to solicit questions from users for a virtual press conference.
The YouTube posts started Monday, with black-and-white aerial military video of Israeli aircraft striking "rockets in transit" and "terrorist smuggling tunnels." Another video in color showed what are identified as Israeli trucks transporting aid into Gaza.
The statement, still posted as of Tuesday night, said YouTube had taken down some of the IDF videos but, "due to blogger and viewer support, YouTube has returned some of the footage they removed."
The statement was removed sometime Wednesday, replaced with one that reads in part, "We thank you for visiting us and will continue to update this site with documentation of the IDF's humane action and operational success in operation 'Cast Lead.' "
By Wednesday afternoon, the channel had 5,600 subscribers and 16 videos posted. The most popular was a video titled "Israeli Air Force Strikes Hamas Government Complex," which shows a large compound with three structures methodically leveled in an air assault Tuesday. Another video shows a building identified as the office of Hamas leader Ismail Haniya in crosshairs before disappearing in a dark cloud of smoke.
According to its Web site, YouTube has a policy that prohibits "inappropriate content," including violent images. While YouTube wouldn't specifically address the IDF statement, a company official said the site relies on its subscribers to flag videos considered inappropriate.
"We review all flagged content quickly, and if we find that a video does violate the guidelines, we remove it, on average in under an hour," said Victoria Grand, YouTube's policy chief. "Occasionally, a video flagged by users is mistakenly taken down. When this is brought to our attention, we review the content and take appropriate action, which may include restoring videos that had been removed."
The New York Israeli Consulate's Twitter feed has picked up more than 2,600 followers since it launched Monday to share its point of view with a younger demographic, said David Saranga, consul for media and public affairs.
"We saw that there is a big debate, a very vivid debate about the situation in Gaza, and we wanted to bring our point of view, we wanted to share it with people on Twitter," Saranga said.
Using the abbreviated language of 140 characters, the feed takes in comments from users and answers their questions on a variety of issues, from the possibility of negotiations with Hamas -- "we R pro nego...we talk only w/ ppl who accept R rt 2 live" -- to how many rockets have hit Israel in the past six month -- "ovr 500," according to Saranga, who handles nearly all of the questions.
"We wanted to outreach to the young generation, who does not read the conventional media, but is still interested in events in the Middle East, so we thought this is a good way to be an official voice for the questions people are asking," he said.
Israeli airstrikes in the territory began Saturday, in what it calls an effort to halt the firing of rockets into southern Israel. More than 390 Palestinians have been killed, according to Palestinian medical sources, and 1,900 people have been wounded, including 400 women and children.
Israeli sources say four Israelis have been killed by Palestinian rocket fire. advertisement
Haniya, whose office in Gaza was struck overnight, said Israel needed to "stop attacking and killing our children, women and men."
The Israeli military says it is targeting only Hamas militants, which it says are responsible for the barrage of rocket fire into southern Israel. Each side blames the other for violating an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, which formally expired December 19 but had been weakening for months.
As far as I know, this is the first time that they are making videos of airstrikes taken from drones readily available to the public. There is also one where you get the view from the camera at the tip of a guided missile as it appraches its target, flies through a window and blows up.
Here is the channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk Three videos of note: Warning: the first is rather maccabre. If you think that you will be disturbed by seeing people hit by a missile, do not watch it.
I think that the purpose of creating this channel is to help clear the myth that Israel deliberately targets civillians. The precision weaponry shown has incredible accuracy. The targets include weapons storage facilities (hidden in mosques and underground tunnels), grad missile launch sites and Hamas buildings and boats.
The videos show how Hamas hides weapons among civilians so as to increase the likelyhood of casualties and strike PR points. So far, about 60 civilian casualties have been reported. The proportion of innocents killed seems to be incredibly low compared to other current conflicts. This is a result of using these very accurate weapons and also of the practice of warning people well in advance (I think I heard it was 24 hours) before blowing up buildings so that they can get out of the area.
Posting these videos is a new development in Israel's approach to PR. I do not want this thread to be about your opinions on the Israeli/Arab conflict because that discussion is all over the place and will just get out of hand.
I would like this thread to be about the media representation and of the current hostilities and the PR strategies used by both sides. Thanks!
On January 01 2009 12:09 inlagdsil wrote: I would like this thread to be about the media representation and of the current hostilities and the PR strategies used by both sides. Thanks!
Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
On January 01 2009 12:09 inlagdsil wrote: I would like this thread to be about the media representation and of the current hostilities and the PR strategies used by both sides. Thanks!
Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
IMO it shows an openness about disclosure of targeting methods that hasn't ever been seen in warfare. We need to see more of this.
On January 01 2009 15:07 Underwhelmed wrote: Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
IMO it shows an openness about disclosure of targeting methods that hasn't ever been seen in warfare. We need to see more of this.
If a state-controlled media outlet is your idea of "open". I don't trust the Israeli government (or indeed, any entity) to not hide distasteful things they might do. For all you know, they could be indiscriminately demolishing Palestinian homes with bulldozers, which would never be disclosed that YouTube channel.
On January 01 2009 15:07 Underwhelmed wrote: Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
IMO it shows an openness about disclosure of targeting methods that hasn't ever been seen in warfare. We need to see more of this.
If a state-controlled media outlet is your idea of "open". I don't trust the Israeli government (or indeed, any entity) to not hide distasteful things they might do. For all you know, they could be indiscriminately demolishing Palestinian homes with bulldozers, which would never be disclosed that YouTube channel.
Edit: Typo
SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT. LOGICAL FALLACY DETECTED. POST IGNORED.
On January 01 2009 15:50 OmgIRok wrote: Didn't Israel just kinda sorta reveal some of their technology with the YouTube vids?
It's not like people don't know they have this. And it's not groundbreaking technology.
I actually think this is kind of interesting... You can't really fight evidence like this. And to say that they aren't showing the ones where they hit civilians purposefully or some crap, take a hike. Why waste ammunition...
@ Underwhelmed: -Perhaps calling it a new "strategy" is too much, but it certainly is a change. Israel has been ineffective lately at communicating its position. Army generals making statements explaining/defending Israeli actions do not get much notice, whereas pictures of rubble and injured Palestinian children are on front pages everywhere (Israel has a policy forbidding the publication of pictures of injured/dead Israelis out of respect for them and their families). In order to show to the world that it is not in fact the evil monster that some depict it as, it must find ways of getting through to people. This channel is one such way. I found it particularly surprising during the recent conflict in Lebanon when some of the people that the IDF chose to speak to the media where not able to express the Israeli position clearly enough and where thrown off by some of the loaded questions that they were asked. -As for your second post, of course they won't show terrible things, but that is not relevent here. Your example of bulldozers is incorrect because the houses that were razed like that were those of suicide-bombers. You can agree or disagree with that policy, but it is anything but indiscriminate.
@D10 and motbob: this disclosure certainly is amazing, and I agree that it is useful.
On January 01 2009 15:07 Underwhelmed wrote: Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
IMO it shows an openness about disclosure of targeting methods that hasn't ever been seen in warfare. We need to see more of this.
If a state-controlled media outlet is your idea of "open". I don't trust the Israeli government (or indeed, any entity) to not hide distasteful things they might do. For all you know, they could be indiscriminately demolishing Palestinian homes with bulldozers, which would never be disclosed that YouTube channel.
Edit: Typo
SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT. LOGICAL FALLACY DETECTED. POST IGNORED.
how is this a slippery slope argument? how is it unlikely that Israel wouldn't hide footage of civilian deaths?
On January 01 2009 15:07 Underwhelmed wrote: Apparently, using YouTube is now a strategy of the Israeli government.
IMO it shows an openness about disclosure of targeting methods that hasn't ever been seen in warfare. We need to see more of this.
If a state-controlled media outlet is your idea of "open". I don't trust the Israeli government (or indeed, any entity) to not hide distasteful things they might do. For all you know, they could be indiscriminately demolishing Palestinian homes with bulldozers, which would never be disclosed that YouTube channel.
Edit: Typo
SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT. LOGICAL FALLACY DETECTED. POST IGNORED.
how is this a slippery slope argument? how is it unlikely that Israel wouldn't hide footage of civilian deaths?
I don't see how it is a slippery slope argument either. However, saying "there is this good thing therefore it must be hiding a bad thing" is certainly a logical fallacy. That kind of situation sometimes occurs, though I don't think that it is the case here.
EDIT: As for the issue of showing footage of civilian casualties, of course they will not show civilians clearly getting killed. Also, we do not know if there were any such casualties as a result of the strikes shown. I'm not sure if they would have caried on with the bombing if civilians had been apparent in the vicinity (they must have a policy on that depending on the gravity of the threat or importance of the target, but I don't know it).
I'm not going to get involved in a Israel vs Palestine argument here, so I'll keep this relevant to the original post. The point is that just about the only thing I'd trust this YouTube channel to do is to promote their government's perspective. A couple videos cleared for release on their official propaganda channel doesn't really convince me that all their operations are conducted as conscientiously as depicted, especially when I consider past news reports.
I don't know if it's because you're from Canada, but in the US, the representation of the conflict is decidedly more skewed in favor of Israel. There's a documentary on this if anybody is interested (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565)
On January 01 2009 16:51 Underwhelmed wrote: I'm not going to get involved in a Israel vs Palestine argument here, so I'll keep this relevant to the original post. The point is that just about the only thing I'd trust this YouTube channel to do is to promote their government's perspective. A couple videos cleared for release on their official propaganda channel doesn't really convince me that all their operations are conducted as conscientiously as depicted, especially when I consider past news reports.
I don't know if it's because you're from Canada, but in the US, the representation of the conflict is decidedly more skewed in favor of Israel. There's a documentary on this if anybody is interested (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565)
It's true that showing these videos does not prove that all operations are caried out in this way. This a propaganda war too! From what I have seen, Israel has been losing the propaganda war. Perhaps the media that I am exposed to is quite different from the norm in the States, I'll watch the documentary then make some comments. Thank you for staying on topic!
EDIT (will update as I watch): about the documentary: + Show Spoiler +
in the first 12 minutes, there is not a single sentence which is not directly or indirectly criticising Israel. This is not a documentary, this is propaganda. The video goes on to claim the old "the Jews are controlling the media" myth, then goes into "conspiracy theory" mode. It is interesting that every single organisation listed as "progressive" is pro-palestinian, implying that any organisation that isn't must be wrong. Now at 18 minutes, still not a single person from any of the groups criticized was given a chance to speak. Also, the editing makes the IDF spokesman appear to say something that he does not mean. He is talking about how media coverage is of low quality, the context makes it seem like he adheres to the thesis of the video, which he probably doesn't. So far this is a good example of misleading coverage and bias. It's ironic how they get Robert Fisk to talk a lot. Here is a journalist who makes no claim not to be biased! This movie so far has two basic premises: everything must be understood in the context of the "illegal occupation and oppression", and that Israel eventually wants to own the West Bank and Gaza. The use of the word "occupation" is interesting as it is at the center of the propaganda war; this could be discussed in this thread. However, the second premise is simply untrue. The only Israelis who want this are fringe ultra-orthodox groups: they don't have much political clout and in any case that would be impossible and stupid. There are many factual inaccuracies, and opinions stated as facts. All of the footage from Israel/Palestinian Authority shows Israelis with guns or bulldozers, or Palestinian rubble. Earlier, the fly-ridden corpses from the massacres of Sabra and Shatila were shown, but the narration made it difficult for someone who doesn't know about the history to understand that this atrocity was not committed by the Israelis but by Lebanese who had been horribly abused by the Palestinians. This is a good example of how the film contradicts its constant insistance on the importance of context: by the same logic, if you justify terror by occupation, then the Phalangists would be perfectly justified in this mass murder. This is abhorrent. By 29 minutes the film has lowered itself to accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing. I'm still waiting for the inevitable Nazi references and blood libel. I started watching this hoping it would be informative but so far I find it lacking in eveything but rhetoric. They make many good and interesting remarks, but they are drowned out by the general atmosphere of hatred of Israel throughout. I will try to pick out these good points about the media: -Context is essential to understanding the situation -The use of words such as "attack", "retaliation" paint a picture that might not be factually correct. In my opinion, the use of "cycle of violence" is one of the most common missleading terms as it makes it look as though one event is the result of the other: "an eye for an eye" is not true. I don't want to get into this now as it would go far off topic. -Emotionally connecting with the victims of attacks is key to making the public sympathize with them. -The quality of reporting is low and journalists are often influenced in what they write. The film has taken each of these good points then either showed only one side or skewed them and contradicted itself.
I would like to look into what they say about the use of "relative calm" as refering to periods where only Palestinians are killed.
I have a question about the publication of personal, emotionally charged stories about people who died and their families. In the media that I get (mostly Canadian, British and American), you find small personal details (or long stories) about Palestinians much more often than about Israelis. Is this the norm in the States, or is it just the opposite as the movie suggests?
Again and again, the British media, especially the BBC, is praised for its coverage. They show much more empathy for the Palestinians, it's true. This isn't a bad thing. But they show almost none for Jews. The BBC is well known for anti-Israel bias, and should thus not be praised.
52 minutes in, not a single mention has been made of Palestinian propaganda. The title of the video is "Peace, propaganda and the Promised Land". The documentary has failed, and I have seen enough, at least for tonight. I still have learned a bit though, but I would not recommend this as a source of information or analysis for anyone.
RE EDIT: by my own fault, this thread risks veering towards the subject of media bias which is relevant to the OP but not central to it. Let's try to redirect it towards the initial issue.
my question is: sure the first video SAYS those are missiles, but the quality is so shitty they could be loading pipes for replacing sewage stuff or something or god knows what... it doesn't really show anything.
Israel should destroy the Hamas as completely as possible and eliminate the threat on its people, sadly this government won't do that, it is doing this operation mostly because election is coming and they want us to forget how they made us to be sitting ducks for 8 years.
For us Israelis it's a disgrace to have someone like Tzipi Livni, who has much worse English than me, as our foreign minister (not to mention the actual things she says which many times convey defeatism and a constant need to apologize for Israel's need to defend its civilians).
Netanyahu is doing a much better work than her. He recently broke a record when he was interviewed 50 times in ONE weekend in the US. Our country can show the situation and our point of view much better than it is doing right now. Showing all the horrors of the Hamas regime including against their own people, their murderous training and education system, showing the enormous damage Hamas has caused Israel since the suicide bombers in the 90s to the last 8 years of almost constant rocket attacks on Israel.
On January 01 2009 17:40 Locke. wrote: Israel should destroy the Hamas as completely as possible and eliminate the threat on its people, sadly this government won't do that, it is doing this operation mostly because election is coming and they want us to forget how they made us to be sitting ducks for 8 years.
For us Israelis it's a disgrace to have someone like Tzipi Livni, who has much worse English than me, as our foreign minister (not to mention the actual things she says which many times convey defeatism and a constant need to apologize for Israel's need to defend its civilians).
Netanyahu is doing a much better work than her. He recently broke a record when he was interviewed 50 times in ONE weekend in the US. Our country can show the situation and our point of view much better than it is doing right now. Showing all the horrors of the Hamas regime including against their own people, their murderous training and education system, showing the enormous damage Hamas has caused Israel since the suicide bombers in the 90s to the last 8 years of almost constant rocket attacks on Israel.
It wasn't until you made this post that I realized you are batshit insane.
As far as I know, this is the first time that they are making videos of airstrikes taken from drones readily available to the public. There is also one where you get the view from the camera at the tip of a guided missile as it appraches its target, flies through a window and blows up.
didnt the us release videos on desert storm precision air strikes also? and to the person who mentioned you really cant see whatever ammunition being used to attack these targets, i think it was the same way with the US arsenal. i think u can only spot the hellfire missiles and maverick missiles, (on the A-10 or AH-64 i believe) arsenal on video clips from the attacker's POV. it might not be missiles, but laser guided bombs like the GBU-series or GDAM bombs which have no flare since they sorta guide to their targets.
EPT
