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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
8 - Pylon 10 - Gateway 11 - Assimilator 13 - Core + Gateway 14 - Pylon 15 - Dragoon + Cut probes 17 - 2* Dragoon 19 - Range ... continue pumping and pressure But in the interview video thing about "nony goes to courage" they repeatingly were talking about a 10/15 gate build order on medusa and it seemed nony would win easily with it. So i assume the build i am using is not optimal. Can someone explain the 10/15 gate? | ||
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Canada92 Posts
10 - gateway 11/12 - assimilator 13/14 - core 15 - gateway, cut Probes, Dragoon 17 - pylon, Dragoon Range Two Dragoons at the same time. Works out so both dragoons build simultaneously. Probably not the exact Nony build but here's a variation of it. Edit: Looking at your build actually, the 13 gateway looks a bit out of placed. How does an earlier second gateway work out for you? | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
Edit, i think mine gives you the earlier goons, and the 10/15 gives you the earlier range and form then onwards prolly the same builds i suppose. | ||
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ZpuX
Sweden1230 Posts
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Canada92 Posts
The two dragoons following appear relatively the same. I am not sure which build is better, maybe someone more well informed can comment on it. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
10 gate 12 assi 13 core 15 gate 15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base) 15 range 15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon) but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa | ||
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Repertoire
Canada92 Posts
On December 29 2008 02:13 iamtt1 wrote: 8 pylon 10 gate 12 assi 13 core 15 gate 15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base) 15 range 15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon) but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa Damn, you really cut your probes to get stuff done. What is that, 500 minerals spent on 15 psi alone?  | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On December 29 2008 02:29 Snacks wrote: Damn, you really cut your probes to get stuff done. What is that, 500 minerals spent on 15 psi alone? 525 | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
On December 29 2008 02:13 iamtt1 wrote: 8 pylon 10 gate 12 assi 13 core 15 gate 15 pylon (some pylon after goon good but this way is much faster especially on 3 base maps where your only goal with your scout is to find the t's base) 15 range 15 goon etc. (or u can go 15 probe and wait for pylon which is like a few seconds, i usually use the 16 probe to scout then goon) but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa Don't give absolute advice like the last line of your post especially since it isn't true at all that 12 nex is absolutely better than 10/15 gate. Going 10/15 allows for early pressure and can lead to an easy win even against pro-gamers (see NonY's game 2 victory vs the guy who won courage and is now a pro-gamer.) 12 nex can be a powerful build since it allows for a strong economic lead but this is assuming you don't die to some sort of 2 fac attack or an early marine/scv rush which if executed properly by the terran can be difficult to defend even with proper micro. | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
Anyways, seems 10/15 will be overal better/safer while you can still pressure enough so i'm glad i learned a new bo today. if you rly wanna know the timing (yeah, i got bored and wrote it down): 10/13: 3:12 1st goon - 3:20 2nd goon - 3:43 3rd goon - 3:57 4th goon - 4:15 5th goon -> At 5:00 you got 8 goons, range, 2 goons building but only 17 probes. 10/15: 3:15 1st goon - 3:58 - 2nd+3rd goon - 4:35 - 4th+5th goon and range -> At 5:00 you got 6 goons, range, 2 goons building and 21 probes (4 more) | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
and saying "12 nex can be a powerful build since it allows for a strong economic lead but this is assuming you don't die to some sort of 2 fac attack or an early marine/scv rush which if executed properly by the terran can be difficult to defend even with proper micro.", is like me saying 10/15 can be a powerful build too because you can hurt t early game but this is assuming he doesnt block it perfectly while exping insanely early on his min only so he then gains a huge economic advantage over the toss, or he only bunks his front and repairs it while waiting on his tank + exps | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
On December 29 2008 04:59 iamtt1 wrote: or he only bunks his front and repairs it while waiting on his tank + exps suïcdal terran imo, just runby with goons, you cant focus fire a bunker. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
You're broke, and you can't even handle the tank/s. 10/15 is better not only on 3 player maps, but flat maps. Chokes really ruin this build. 10/15 is also team-hunters goon build and abusive build on Requiem. 10/15 is aggro early game play, often going into some kind of all in. Nony chose it probably to try to quickly take initiative back in the series. It's a easy build to follow up with fast tech or safe expo. It's very flexible and strong on certain maps. I always used to refer to 10/15 as Hungry 2Gate Goon. Cuz you do end up feelin hungry... =( | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On December 29 2008 05:02 Gnojfatelob wrote: suïcdal terran imo, just runby with goons, you cant focus fire a bunker. not if he lifts his rack and puts it beside his bunk on the bottom or top and then blocks your goons with his scvs because their going to be there anyways to repair the bunk (or make a depot on the other side but good t's wouldnt need that because it would just slow their exp down and it isnt necessary), alot of the high ranked t users use to do this back in the day tau cross days especially(literally like everytime theyd scout 10/15) but again your assuming different factors or elements, of course if the t bunks and doesnt know what hes doing and leaves huge gaps around his bunk so your goons can easily run in then youd obviously take advantage of that situtation but i can also assume the t knows what hes doing and is easily able to block your run in, a perfectly excuted 10/15 vs a perfectly executed defencive style from the t = the terran would gain the advantage because hes playing the counter b.o role while your the agressor you can assume these types of things for any mu, for example in pvz when the z becomes the agressor and goes 9p speedling so he could run into p's base while hes feing and the toss becomes the counter b.oer in this situation, if the toss doesnt know what hes doing and does a shitty block the z is easily going to be able to run in his base but if he does know what hes doing and knows how to execute a perfectly defencive b.o then he gains the advantage in this situation but ^ is one of the main differences between koreans and foreigners on ladders, kors exploit these type of b.os | ||
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
On December 29 2008 01:43 Snacks wrote: 8 - pylon 10 - gateway 11/12 - assimilator 13/14 - core 15 - gateway, cut Probes, Dragoon 17 - pylon, Dragoon Range Two Dragoons at the same time. Works out so both dragoons build simultaneously. Probably not the exact Nony build but here's a variation of it. Edit: Looking at your build actually, the 13 gateway looks a bit out of placed. How does an earlier second gateway work out for you? why do you call it the "nony build". free has been doing this forever. | ||
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Repertoire
Canada92 Posts
On December 29 2008 09:14 rushz0rz wrote: why do you call it the "nony build". free has been doing this forever. ....Because he asked how to execute the build that nony executed in courage? I even know about this build before he did it recently lol. | ||
GTR
51487 Posts
On December 29 2008 09:29 Snacks wrote: ....Because he asked how to execute the build that nony executed in courage? I even know about this build before he did it recently lol. NonY was also the one that popularised it to the general foreigners. I don't see why you have to be such a nit about it being a specific players build. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
everyone has been using it forever on rampless maps but 12 nex is much better then 10/15 on medusa 12 nex is bad on medusa, you cant rush it but you can double exp and wall off the natural. leaves protoss in fine shape anyway but you'll be way better off with wall harass or shuttle builds. | ||
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
On December 29 2008 10:19 GTR-2-Go wrote: NonY was also the one that popularised it to the general foreigners. I don't see why you have to be such a nit about it being a specific players build. Because it's stupid to call it the "NonY build" when players have been using it forever. Just because people see it just got done by NonY in courage does not mean he made it up. | ||
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