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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
The best things about SC are the game's pace, how dozens of units can perish within seconds, the quick turns of action, its intensity and non stop war going on. You can argue that WC3 is not as fast and exciting. You can say that the match develops at a much slower pace. But that's not even important. link | ||
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Centric
United States1989 Posts
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
In SC it's obvious to ANYONE what's going on, at least somewhat, and battles are fun whether you know the game or not. In WC3, you're required to have a fair bit of game knowledge before you can enjoy it. When I watch a WC3 match all I see is random units doing random spells with random effects making the whole battle scene hard to follow. In the end, I often don't even know who has won a battle or who is generally ahead! Also, SC gameplay is still very visible even on low-quality videos (Youtube...). WC3 battles turn into a real mess then. This is actually my biggest concern for SC2, that it won't be as "readable" as SC1 is. | ||
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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[X]Ken_D
United States4653 Posts
+1 creeping is boring to watch, but its better playing. wc3 should have a fastest setting. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
ToD wrote: I don't think it dominates Warcraft, certainly not outside of Korea for sure. I do agree that Starcraft is more spectator friendly since its more basic, and really fast, always bringing action packed games. "A more skilled" game is discutable, ofcourse the speed required to play the game at high level is much higher than in Warcraft, but Warcraft is much more axed on Strategies and timings which are much more important than in Starcraft. Ofcourse at highest level things might be harder in Starcraft as it's literally recognized as a sport with high salaries given to the bestest players in Korea, the interest for the game causes a lot more people to take it really seriously practicing tons for TV games etc. While in Warcraft we have a few tournaments where you must qualify to take part in, and a lot of invitational ones these days, the players are sponsored by teams that are very often not even based in same country as them. There is no coaches, every player is his own coach and practices in his own way. And Starcraft does have a lot of sponsorship actually, way more than Warcraft, but the thing is that is only happening in Korea. Didn't expect such bullshit from a top player like ToD. He definately has no clue about Starcraft it seems. Starcraft is superior in any point of gameplay. There's no need to discuss. Starcraft is superior in micro, macro AND strategy. The strategy decisions in Warcraft 3 are limited while you can choose hundreds, thousands of strategies in Starcraft. The only point Warcraft 3 is superior is the count of races. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On April 15 2008 18:34 G.s)NarutO wrote: Didn't expect such bullshit from a top player like ToD. He definately has no clue about Starcraft it seems. Starcraft is superior in any point of gameplay. There's no need to discuss. Starcraft is superior in micro, macro AND strategy. The strategy decisions in Warcraft 3 are limited while you can choose hundreds, thousands of strategies in Starcraft. The only point Warcraft 3 is superior is the count of races. Yeah well he is a WC3 top player what do you expect? I gotta admit for me playing WC3 is nearly as fun as Starcraft except for the extremely aggravating aspects of long games. The only thing i would really concede is that Starcraft is a far better spectator game. WC3 is still a very well made game and im giggling a lil about how many "thousands" of strategies there are in SC, as most are just mutations of standards and there is plenty of shit that vs the most standard of high level play is completely unviable. WC3 also has plenty of small deviations and in some ways offers the creative individual a lot more room what with tavern heroes and the largely viable tech trees, though it ends up being a lot like SC actually.. If someone deviates a little, it opens up the ability for another player to change up from the norm a lot. But if one player is super standard there is only so much you can do to play creatively. | ||
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NathanSC
United States620 Posts
On April 15 2008 18:34 G.s)NarutO wrote: Didn't expect such bullshit from a top player like ToD. He definately has no clue about Starcraft it seems. Starcraft is superior in any point of gameplay. There's no need to discuss. Starcraft is superior in micro, macro AND strategy. The strategy decisions in Warcraft 3 are limited while you can choose hundreds, thousands of strategies in Starcraft. The only point Warcraft 3 is superior is the count of races. And he doesn't seem to have any idea that the TSL exists. Shame. | ||
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parkin
1090 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
ToD wrote: "A more skilled" game is discutable, ofcourse the speed required to play the game at high level is much higher than in Warcraft, but Warcraft is much more axed on Strategies and timings which are much more important than in Starcraft. It might be just me having never played a competitive game of WC3 in my life, but when I watch it there is really no sense of timing at all. Nothing on par with say, a well executed gundam or sunk break. Sure, I suppose that you might have certain creep timings, but timing is based on economy really. On top of this, the faced-paced nature of SC vs WC3 make timing exponentially more important. Anywaysss, I kind of like watching WC3 early game when it kind of makes sense, they are harassing and setting their opponents behind, etc. When it hits late-game and big battles happen all I see are units wacking at each other for a good 2 minutes and when a good flank or trap actually happens the other guy just TPs out. Kind of boring. : \ Edit: I think it's really more a case of WC3 just gets plain boring to watch. I could understand the game reasonably well during WCG with Bunny commentating but like I said before, once it hit mid-late game, it was ridiculously boring. On the contrary, SC starts off a bit slow but mid-late game is almost always intense. | ||
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
But I really don't understand how he can say : "Warcraft is much more axed on Strategies" Oo. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On April 15 2008 18:57 Nitro68 wrote: Timing are really important in WC3, but I would not say more important than in SC. But I really don't understand how he can say : "Warcraft is much more axed on Strategies" Oo. Could you give an example of WC3 timings to me? | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On April 15 2008 19:00 mahnini wrote: Could you give an example of WC3 timings to me? It's a lot about hero level timing... but also about tier 2 or even tier 3 units against an early push... For example in HU vs NE it's usually extremely important to get the arcanes up as quick as possible so people put 3-4 on them just to make it a few seconds quicker. The timing of the second hero is also a very important aspect in wc3. Timing of an early or midgame towerrushing is also very important. But since exps play a lesser role in WC3 than in Starcraft, I'd say Starcraft have the advatange of timing. The thing about WC3 is that everything that happens feels less significant. One or two footman lost, even in midgame, can turn the game. You get a nice itam from creeping. Wow, you have a big advantage. That way, the actions that happen doesn't feel as exciting as a big continuous battle in Starcraft. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 15 2008 19:00 mahnini wrote: Could you give an example of WC3 timings to me? I'd say timing is not more complex in War3 than in SC, but it's definitely just as important. Most of the skill in War3 falls into micro, timing and game sense. Both timing and game sense are quite different from the way they are understood in SC. Most BO timings are fairly standard, but the variations are from creep timing, hero level timing, etc. Timing attacks are also key, such as a tower push before a certain tech, tier or etc. This is especially important when one player expands (a major investment) and the timer starts ticking for the other player to do significant damage. Game sense is also different, because it is also important to constantly predicting what your opponent's army is doing, where they are creeping, etc. | ||
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Mergesort
Norway18 Posts
On April 15 2008 19:00 mahnini wrote: Could you give an example of WC3 timings to me? The standard one-dimensional example would be timing attacks before a certain tech unit or ability is finished like bear form, equivalent to attacking just before a dt or defiler is out. There's also creeping timings (what and when you creep, and the ability to survive a possible creepjack), and there's tech timing (going late scout or heavy wood builds to hit t2 a bit faster than your opponent and get your 2nd hero 1 sec faster at the tavern fight, which matters a lot in some matchups). No doubt that sc is better to watch for nongamers and people who don't play the game themselves., would have been cool to see a survey about it to see how high the numbers actually are (90-10?). | ||
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ktp
United States797 Posts
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