EPThttp://download.yousendit.com/EA52EDA13A784311
[H]Defending vs Muta Harass
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
http://download.yousendit.com/EA52EDA13A784311 | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Edit: Forgot to mention that keeping your rines in a group is important because he kept picking off individual ones as you were retreating. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
Obviously not having turrets in time is a huge factor. When his first mutas hatch there will be 6 of them. 6 mutas can't fight turrets efficiently, but they can fight marines - as I'm sure you should know after that game. If you'd had turrets up in time you'd been able to avoid fighting - and even more important, avoid fighting him while he's on high ground - for alittle longer, which would have meant that you would have had more marines during the first fight and lost less. Yes, the terran army grows quicker than the zerg one, which is why he has to pick off stuff to stand a chance. Once a ball of marines reaches a critical mass it won't be efficient to attack it with mutas anymore. That critical mass will increase the more mutas he get but he can't harass with more than 11 per ball, so there's a very critical mass which he can't fight at all. Another important thing is the turrent placement. Vs a common muta harrass it's great to spread out your turrets alittle so that they cover a larger area, but vs a muta masser turrets - and the scvs which builds the new ones - are targets. With 11 mutas a turret goes down in 2 hits, he'll hardly lose anything at all from killing a stray one and two won't stand much longer. Even 3 turrets won't do much more than buying you time to arrive with your marine force. So keep them as close together as possible in order to maximize their efficiancy. It is also important to always keep your marines clumbed together when moving them through your base. Stray rines is easily picked off. Another play where stray rines is oftenly seen is next raxes and your rally; so watch out. Having range also helps a ton when fighting mutas. Unupgraded marine range is just slightly longer than muta range, but upgraded it's alot longer, the time your marines can fire at him increases ALOT with range. Are you playing over bnet or hamachi? There's a few ways to screw up muta ai over b.net. Dunno if the tricks can be used consistantly, I think most players I've encountered have done it out of pure luck. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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ToT)SiLeNcE(
Germany590 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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HonkHonkBeep
China353 Posts
First of all obviously...you won the game except you didn't pay attention to the sunken building when he had nothing right outside of bunker range and then you let it kill your bunker. In that kind of game where you contained him with that depot you should anticipate he'll be teching faster than normal in an effort to remove the gap between the two of you. You needed to get double comsat faster, instead of making 3-4 scvs from each cc before doing so after the academy. You've got an expo; he can't possibly match your economy, since even if he had only pumped drones from inside his main he only had one hatch there (but you never saw inside his main, so I guess you don't know that). Point is once you have that advantage you should just live through his harass and win. So you needed those double comsat to see his tech immediately, your scans came way too late, and then you didn't have an ebay on time. Also unless you're fairly confident of what he is going to be doing, I wouldn't start making my fac/port before scanning his main to see what tech he's chosen. You couldn't make that decision because you never scouted his main, since you blocked with that depot. Consequently you also couldn't see he only 2 hatched and would have faster mutas. Your micro when he first hit your nat was bad. When there's a cliff there you need to move the MM back behind it somewhat more into the mineral line. You were milling around the bottom of the cliff getting picked off by mutas you can't see, and I know it's a bitch to control because the AI pathfinding is so stupid. Your macro also was lacking, because you had like 10 marines when his mutas came; even if they are 45 seconds earlier than a 3 hatch muta build you should have more than that. That many rines is basically asking him to just rape them all with muta and then terrorize your base for the next 5 minutes. In the case of this particular game placing the 3 turrets in main spread out on the left side of the base was bad. When Terrans do that it's to buy time for marines to come save from the mutas, not to actually combat the mutas. That requires a large marine force. When you're making turrets because they're actually necessary to your survival because the mutas are fucking all your shit up you need to clump them together a lot more. After that point it was just downhill, those points that I said are what I see as having been the major losing points. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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caveman:caveman
United States74 Posts
I don't think this is prescriptive by any means, and I'm not even sure that this would have helped much against his very aggressive style, it's just a suggestion. :D 2 hatch mutas is very hard to play against, especially when I don't scout it :S | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
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HonkHonkBeep
China353 Posts
On December 10 2007 10:57 InfesTeD]i[ wrote: imo He just outplayed you. You could have done better. But his muta micro is way good, he could fuck up a lot of people besides you. Watch iloveoov and boxer's games around 2004 when they used to play against Julyzerg. Gives you a good idea of timing and turret placement It's not a simple matter of him being outclassed, because he was in a position to win even if the guy he was playing is better than him overall. | ||
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Agavond
448 Posts
On December 10 2007 05:20 HonkHonkBeep wrote: Your macro also was lacking, because you had like 10 marines when his mutas came; even if they are 45 seconds earlier than a 3 hatch muta build you should have more than that. That many rines is basically asking him to just rape them all with muta and then terrorize your base for the next 5 minutes. In the case of this particular game placing the 3 turrets in main spread out on the left side of the base was bad. When Terrans do that it's to buy time for marines to come save from the mutas, not to actually combat the mutas. That requires a large marine force. When you're making turrets because they're actually necessary to your survival because the mutas are fucking all your shit up you need to clump them together a lot more. After that point it was just downhill, those points that I said are what I see as having been the major losing points. I agree with everything HonkHonkBeep said. but the TWO major reasons why you lost was macro and your turret placement. if you had your turrets clumped together (like 4 on expo and 3-4 on main) you wouldn't have had such a pain dealing with those mutas. when i mean clump up your turrets, i mean in a straight line protecting scvs. while you're teching to Science Vessels to irradiate mutas. FYI: spread your depots out so it's easier to protect your depots with marines. Your macro wasn't as good as it should have been. by estimating you should have had at least 2 groups of marines. one of the groups protecting your expo and the other protecting your main. also if those mutas can't get into your mineral line then they will definitely go for you supply depots. | ||
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
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houseurmusic
United States544 Posts
On December 15 2007 14:13 w3jjjj wrote: poof, download limit reached for the file.....i wanna see.... word | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Funnytoss
Taiwan1471 Posts
Here's the file for those that are interested. | ||
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