Normal Mini Mafia LVI

On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:


Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it

On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:


You have a point here I really like.

Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here.

He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do.

But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that.

I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum.

On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever.

Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here.

+ Show Spoiler +

As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.

##Vote: mderg

On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:

Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story.

On June 17 2014 22:37 goodkarma wrote:


It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself.

Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain.

On June 17 2014 23:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mderg, I ctrl-F'd your filter on "?" and got zero results. Why are you not asking anyone any questions?

On June 18 2014 04:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
Mderg is just... Look through this part of his first post for example.


So his logic is something like this:
1. Since YKZ are battling each other they cannot both be scum.
2. And YKZ is probably town (for some really wierd reasoning).
3. Its possible that Bunnies is scum, points out several stuff that Bunnies that is alignment unindicative.
4. Dislikes that Bunnies says that Release is scummy but doesn't want him to be scum. This is like the only part that makes sense.

Then he proceeds to vote him. This vote is so out of place that I cannot even describe it with words. Pointing out several things that he even himself says isn't alignment indicative is just unnecessary. Yes, he said he disliked one of Bunnies posts. But he also said that he disliked Snickers and Release posting. Why vote Bunnies? Because it was the current wagon?

This shit just seem to careless to be scum. You don't see scum posting posts liek this because that's all scum care about, looking good. I'm calling bad town here.

##Unvote

On June 18 2014 02:29 Snickers wrote:


Yea it seems really strange that you are only leaning towards somebody and you vote for them. Saying that you are not 100% sure you will return to the game to reevaluate the situation. It would be terrible for a town to vote for someone with only about half the information we have. Then say he may not change it until the lynch. So you were leaning towards bunnies but felt she was scum enough that if you did not make it to a computer she could be lynched because of this vote.

##Unvote

##Vote mderg

I still think Release is scum but I am more confident that mderg is at this time. Also we have to consolidate our posts and i think it would be easier for people to see this slip. Also more people on mderg atm than release.

5. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.

On June 18 2014 02:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

EBWOP

On June 18 2014 05:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
@Mderg I considered not asking questions a scumtell, but when I checked your last scum and towngame it was not the case and I felt it prudent to inform the thread of that as I brought it up earlier.

On June 19 2014 03:31 Koshi wrote:
I am going to sleep early. No Spain . Yesterday Belgium and I went to party and I cant sleep with alcohol in my blood. Then there was mafia and more soccer so it was 2 am before bed. Second time this week with sunday.

On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.

I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).

Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.

On June 19 2014 04:50 Lazermonkey wrote:
Huh, examples of Snicker knowing his shit?

I do agree with that he is focusing on very small things. But is that alignment indicative?

On June 19 2014 20:40 VisceraEyes wrote:

Why I Believe Mderg Is Mafia
and Other Short Stories

The Post In Question

So my contention with mderg's original post still stands. Here are my expanded reasons for thinking his first post is mafia.

1) comes in and gives a weak reasoning for his vote - like, he thinks that her focus on the scumslip is somehow suspicious, but frankly I see way more town harping on about scumslips than mafia. Further, he doesn't even really state how anything else she does is suspcious - this is his only reasoning for finding bunnies suspicious (unless you count "between BH and bunnies, BH is more townie, ergo, bunnies is mafia"....I don't).

2) though he claims it was unintended, he DID leave the post with the feeling that he probably wouldn't be back. I mean, that's obviously subjective but when someone uses the phrase "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow" that leads me to believe that there's some doubt there (hence the hopefully part). This leads me to agree with GK's analysis (at the time - not sure where GK left off with mderg at the time of writing this) that he was scum hoping to be able to lurk out the rest of the day.

3) slOosh mentioned this earlier, but Artanis never really made a case on Release, but mderg likes his case on Release.

Further Evidence

I'm having a hard time following mderg's read on Snickers. Apparently earlier he thought Snickers' posting was free of mafia-mindset, which generally speaking is a town-lean or at the very least null, but now apparently Snickers is mderg's only mafia read (everyone else is null or leans town). Except for me I guess, but since this



comes AFTER this



I have to assume that something changed between them and that I'm now either null or town.

Speaking Of That VE Read...

I'll speak to this post now though. Everyone is entitled to just a little troll at the beginning if they want to partake. I thought BH was trolling into our game, so I trolled him back a bit for shits. He is ACTUALLY in the game though, so it was really just a bad joke made even worse by facts I wasn't aware of. Be that as it may, that doesn't mean I don't care about the game. I gave my thoughts on what was happening briefly and yes I AFK'd for a while. Deal wid it. I do that as town more than I do that as mafia these days. I mentioned something about Release because Artanis had made, by my estimation, a decent point on him. However, as I've explained (that he says I never mention him again is either a lie or evidence that mderg is not reading before he types, take your pick), I started townreading Release based on his response to Artanis and the content he provided AFTER Artanis' original point. He's also misrepresenting my stance on slOosh - it's true that I thought slOosh was mafia early on based on how he was questioning people. However I made it abundantly clear that I didn't "immediately" drop it, in fact I never /REALLY/ put it in the thread to begin with - I spoiled it because it was, in my opinion, a bad case without the points I felt made it the strongest, his read on Artanis.

Ready To Read BH Yet?

Meeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................I think he might be mafia. He hasn't had any direct interactions with me due to timing and our respective AFK periods, but frankly the bunnies push felt contrived to begin with, and that he stuck with it only to see her flip green raises red flags to me. He makes a special point to say how GODLY he is at Mafia too, insinuating how BAD he is at town right? Sounds like preknowledge of his main target's flip to me. It's a weak read, but he's my worst read. I put it off because I was scurd, but now I might get lynched and it doesn't matter if I scurd anymore. I think he's mafia based on what's in the thread.

How About Dems Other Players?

Fuck it, they're all town because I think probably 2 mafia. Suck it noobs.

No really, I'll answer questions I guess about other players, but after reading Artanis I'm willing to give him at least today to prove he's townie if others are willing to go with me on PREFERABLY mderg, but possibly BH as well.

On June 19 2014 21:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not even the point. My point was about his Snickers read and how I'm not sure how he gets from point A to point B. You're right though, I guess the "other" could mean that he's more suspicious of me and Snickers is the addition, I missed that I guess. But I still think he mafia regardless.

On June 20 2014 11:27 Snickers wrote:
##Vote mderg

For admitting he said something that he did not, plus his scum play from day one.

Got questions for me? Look at my filter.

Good Luck see you after lynch.

On June 20 2014 07:00 Snickers wrote:
When I look at the thread 4 to 5 hours from now and I continue seeing dumbness. I'm going to make one more post to vote someone then afk till lynch. I already contributed enough , especially compared to some players.

On June 20 2014 18:29 YouKnowZhou wrote:
So, basic vote count from the end of D1 shows us that 27nb was lynched with the following people on the wagon:

YKZ, Artanis, mderg, Chez, Koshi, Sloosh, GK with counterrwagons YKZ with one vote (Release) and mderg with 4 votes (snickers, VE, 27nb, Lazermonkey)

GK was shot overnight and generally the thread has died since then. Given the majority with which 27nb was lynched, we can reasonably conclude that even if mderg is in fact scum, scum wouldn't have to all vote for 27nb to save mderg. Still, we should take a look at what happened in the time leading up to the 27nb lynch to get an idea of which votes made sense and which didn't. I'm going to exclude GK from this analysis, since he died, and myself, since I think everyone is pretty clear on my stated motivations for this lynch.

In terms of major pivots on the 27nb case, it begins with my KPR case early in the day, and is augmented with a pbp analysis (link) a few hours before the deadline.

Before the pbp analysis, the only voter is mderg. He voted in his first post, about halfway through Day 1
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=12#231(link) that was noteworthy for being generally unfocused. His other statements in that post are YKZ Town, Snickers strange, pre-flip assoc is bad, Release is non-perfect, sloosh is town, artanis case on release makes sense but sloosh case on him also made sense blah blah. He's giving lots of opinions and spends not a huge amount of time on his vote target, bunnies.

I'd also like to add some lines from his inital post here, the post in which he votes bunnies.


I'm sure others have pointed this out, but take a look at what's going on in this post. First off, mderg talks a LOT about how 27nb is probably not scum, and neither am I. If you didn't see his vote there at the bottom of the post, and just read the post itself, you would have NO IDEA that he was voting 27nb. Here, try reading his post without the ##vote at the bottom. What does it sounds like to you?

+ Show Spoiler +

Yeah, if you read that, you don't think "I guess he probably votes bunnies at the end there, that makes sense to me". No, you don't think that at all. Not even a LITTLE bit. There's nothign that even remotely a case on bunnies there. And look at his response to people attacking him after this:




He was NOT leaning scum on bunnies. He acted like he thought both me and bunnies were town (which of course scum would know). He never actually writes a case on bunnies.

He defends himself a bit sporadically and doesn't elaborate on his case on bunnies, and it's noteworthy that although he claims a townread on me, he doesn't defend me, the vote leader, during D2. His vote on 27nb and general defense afterwards are a pretty low tier D1, and he doesn't justify the vote, or his case on VE today, well at all. I wonder if he was not anticipating me looking so bad today, and now he's in a tough position of wanting to vote a townie on the block, but not being able to, since he "townreads" me. This would explain the lack of defense, and the fact that he has barely posted in the last 36 hours except to townread me then ask if I play like this usually.

I'd characterise mderg's play as disinterested and unfocused. An acceptable lynch for these reasons, especially the lack of staking out a solid defense (or even a solid "I changed my mind on this") post on me since, basically any time since his initial townread on em.

Take a look at his "case" on bunnies. In his filter, it's clear that the bunnies vote doesn't come from the thoughts he posted in the thread. Probably he was just posting a reads thing to look good as scum, and one of his scumbuddies reminded him he needed to vote. Like shit, man, who forgets to call someone scum or write a case? He even acts like he was leaning scum on bunnies or he had some sort of reason, even after he explicitly calls my case on bunnies unconvincing IN THE POST THAT HE VOTES BUNNIES IN.

I don't even need to read the other votes up (though I will, in due time) because if you look at mderg, the way he voted bunnies is in no way related to a town thought process. Take a look at the spoilered quote, his vote post (at the time his only post in the thread) with the ##vote taken out. There's NO WAY the ##vote follows from that post.

It's out of place because he doesn't have an actually town scumhunting and thought process to refer to. He's scum.

##unvote
##vote mderg


Q: I am lazy and dont' want to read your long post.
A: read this spoilered post by mderg, his first post, and his only voting post from D1. I have removed the ##vote from it, and reading it, you have no freaking clue that he's gonna vote 27nb. It looks like he's townreading 27nb. And then he votes her. He is scum. I have boldfaced the parts in which he refers to bunnies as town.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 21 2014 00:49 Koshi wrote:

Lazy or scummy?

On June 21 2014 00:58 Koshi wrote:

There is actually nothing scummy about it. It is only scummy when I don't follow my own rules.
At this point I am nothing more than a plynch. A terrible bad one.