The main concept on this map was limited pathing, that forces players to come up with different solutions for attacking and defending. With 5 main paths across map, the rock towers become useful for zoning your opponent's movements, and the way the 3rd base is situated changes the way the first 3 bases are held.
So please, give it a go or 2, and let me know what you think.
Woah this is a very interesting map. While I appreciate the concept of the map, I think the two most central ramps will have to be widened eventually. The center is chokey enough as it is to serve its purpose and limiting movement at the ramp doesn't add enough to the map to justify it. The aesthetics are kinda lacking, I think with a layer of polish and some minor tweaks this could be a great map.
So you can wall diagonally at the forward choke for a standard FFE and then go super fast 3rd nexus in PvZ behind one walled off ground entrance. The only problem is that photon overcharge doesn't cover the wall, but such a build might forgo MSC anyway in that case. Definitely think this should be addressed. Also, not too keen on the general clumpiness of the layout but I do like how you avoid CS and boring split.
On November 12 2013 19:52 EatThePath wrote: So you can wall diagonally at the forward choke for a standard FFE and then go super fast 3rd nexus in PvZ behind one walled off ground entrance. The only problem is that photon overcharge doesn't cover the wall, but such a build might forgo MSC anyway in that case. Definitely think this should be addressed. Also, not too keen on the general clumpiness of the layout but I do like how you avoid CS and boring split.
I think thats perfectly acceptable. P is so spread out that Zerg should be able to get ahead in that position.
Wicked layout feels like Crossfire, and the map looks decent, although I would love some more colors, some red to complement the greenish look, maybe a Terran base, or a lava area, because right now it looks nice but boring. I think the main is a bit small, but since there is room at the nat it will probably be fine. Large numbers of Swarm Hosts will probably be pretty bad here, as well as large numbers of anything, Which would mean that drops and air units will probably be the way to go for all players.
I would love to see some heavy reaper play here, it should be incredibly strong because of cliff to the nat and the huge cliff near the main. Blink will also be pretty good, but the main being so small I think that you couldn't blink into the main without committing to the attack, which is good. Overall as a Protoss player I like it, I feel like Colossus based play will be very good here, at least at defending the 3rd. I would probably go Blink Stalkers very fast here, with Colossi followup in both PvZ and PvT, which would allow me to take a decently fast 3rd.
On November 12 2013 19:21 Plexa wrote: Woah this is a very interesting map. While I appreciate the concept of the map, I think the two most central ramps will have to be widened eventually. The center is chokey enough as it is to serve its purpose and limiting movement at the ramp doesn't add enough to the map to justify it. The aesthetics are kinda lacking, I think with a layer of polish and some minor tweaks this could be a great map.
I've got a small set of changes I'll be rolling out with the next version, such as the middle ramp, and a small tweak to the third base. In addition to the balance, I'll also be touching on the aesthetics some more.
Agree with a lot of people in this thread. The main/nat/3rd is very interesting and I like that setup. I dislike the corners with the high ground between the two bases. I think the middle ramps should at least be 2wide, if not 3.
Also, wtf man. Did you spend like 20 minutes on aesthetics? (lol) Okay okay, some of the borders/cliffs with all the claws and what not look nice but everywhere you can walk around seems very bland. Although, that texture set by itself is quite bland as well so that could be the main reason for it.
On November 13 2013 04:28 neobowman wrote: Looks a bit...
BARRIN!
Hahahahaha, I'm such a loser ;_;
Haha, I don't even...
On November 13 2013 04:28 neobowman wrote: I'm not sure I'm a fan of the overtly circuitous routes in the corner. The high ground between the two bases could bea bit more direct.
Where would the fun be in that? :s
And yeah, aesthetics are in the works still. I pegged it 0.1 because the balance is more or less finished, and the aesthetics are at a point where you get an idea how things are gonna look, but I'm still at it. I just kinda wanted to put the map out there.
I... I... actually like the marsh theme... Don't hit me!
I mean yeah, it could look nicer mixed in with some red textures, but i feel that the the Marsh theme in itself is enough, as for the layout it looks quite good, i really and like the others i really like the third and how that base was placed, in the center ramps i agree with plexa, they are a bit too narrow, but they don't worry me as much as those others (the ones that have the collapsible rocks in them), these are the ones that worry me because they break the flow and mobility of armies around the entire area, imagine a game where all the bases have been taken (in a counter clockwise direction), that last base would belong to the bottom left player but because of that ramp that player just can't take that base without needing to place his army just beside it, so yeah, keeping it short that base belongs to neither player, but by widening that ramp that bases actually belong to the players, there some small tweaks i would make to the layout other than widening those ramps and that would be add very very tight passages where only small units could pass, that would improve the counter attack routes in the map without breaking the map and then having to alter the layout in favor of the defender, the only problem i see with adding those passages is that it would break the nice S layout you have there, but i feel it would be worth it :3
Center ramps made into 3-wide's, with rocks narrowing them to 1-wide. High-ground 3rd base scooted towards bottom of the map, just to make drops slightly less pain-in-the-ass.
Uncertain about additional changes atm, so that's all there is for now. Also done are some aesthetic things, texture and doodads ofc.
Of course, as always are welcome thoughts on the current changes, and ideas for anything else that would be good.
I don't get why everyone is hating on that rock tower under the high ground third. It's kinda necessary imo. Such a third design will allow for a fast third to be taken and held, due to its immunity to direct pressure. However, harass from the low ground will essentially shut down mining at the base. If you can't mine from the base, what's the point of having the base? Thus, being able to defend the low ground from harass early on will be important, and the rocks allow this. At the same time though, defending that low ground from harass opens up additional harass methods via the main/nat since the defender will be stretched far from those bases.
I could see the far most outter path being widened/less chokey. However, much of the map yells multi prong attacks/harass. I feel that providing a singular main attack path would take away from this. I like how the limited pathing encourages more planning and scouting to get the best engagement. This map opens up a lot of harass opportunities, so if you can't get into a good aggressive position, use harass to distract or pull apart your opponents defensive position.
The map is too small for those forward third base options. 2 base pushes will get in position really fast with no time or space to disrupt it on the way there. The base layout is also a problem for mid-lategame rallying pushes, plus a third that is difficult to harass by zerglings/banelings. Also aesthetically, the different areas could be made more distinctive. Just my 2 cents.
On November 14 2013 13:17 Quidios wrote: The map is too small for those forward third base options. 2 base pushes will get in position really fast with no time or space to disrupt it on the way there. The base layout is also a problem for mid-lategame rallying pushes, plus a third that is difficult to harass by zerglings/banelings. Also aesthetically, the different areas could be made more distinctive. Just my 2 cents.
If your opponent is doing a 2 base push, you shouldn't be taking the forward third, or a third at all. If you're Z, take the back third every game.
On November 14 2013 13:38 Qwyn wrote: The third is impossilbe to harass by anything but air/drops which gives a certain two races a pretty big advantage in securing it.
Of course, if Zerg drop play comes into prevelence like I would like O_O.
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