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JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 28 2013 15:14 GMT
#51
/in
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 13:00 GMT
#125
Hey all. First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted.

Also, I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. Most notably hzflank because he only said he was for it after people brought it up. Like, even though it's only a 30% chance, if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." So he makes his post saying he'd be for a RNG lynch to show everyone that he's not afraid of it. Even going as far as saying
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How in the world could his odds actually be worse than random? Even if he had no scumhunting skill whatsoever, it would be @ worst equal to random.

JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 13:29 GMT
#131
On October 31 2013 22:20 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey all. First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted.

Also, I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. Most notably hzflank because he only said he was for it after people brought it up. Like, even though it's only a 30% chance, if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." So he makes his post saying he'd be for a RNG lynch to show everyone that he's not afraid of it. Even going as far as saying
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How in the world could his odds actually be worse than random? Even if he had no scumhunting skill whatsoever, it would be @ worst equal to random.


I don't understand. You believe that scum are afraid of being picked by random lynches, yet you say that people are scummy for pushing something scum are afraid of?
Basically. I think people agreeing to lynch randomly are just showing everyone "Look @ me, I don't care who we lynch!". I equate it to when someone says that they'll just automatically lynch whoever another player picks no questions asked. It's scummy.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 13:33 GMT
#133
On October 31 2013 22:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, im confused, are you saying that Random lynching is Pro town or Pro scum?

I think it's pro-scum. But I still think it'd be something I'd be afraid of if I was scum if that makes sense. Because there still is that 30% chance that my team would get screwed on day 1 and there'd be nothing I could do about it.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 14:01 GMT
#137
##vote hzflank

Might as well untill I see a better choice. Seemed like there's a decent amount of support for a hzflank lynch
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 14:08 GMT
#138
On October 31 2013 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 22:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On October 31 2013 22:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, im confused, are you saying that Random lynching is Pro town or Pro scum?

I think it's pro-scum. But I still think it'd be something I'd be afraid of if I was scum if that makes sense. Because there still is that 30% chance that my team would get screwed on day 1 and there'd be nothing I could do about it.

So what exactly are you calling Hzflank scummy for? Promoting random lynch?

Yeah. Other people pointed out stuff that didn't look for him good either. And like, the way I see it, when there's something that people need to take a stance on, very rarely will all the scummies end up on the same side of the issue. So I think there's a real good chance that one of the pro-RNGers is scum. And I think hzflank is the scummiest of them.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 14:23 GMT
#141
On October 31 2013 23:09 Grackaroni wrote:
You do realize you can't just lynch people because others support it right?
OK. You also cant lynch people without other people supporting it.


On October 31 2013 23:09 Grackaroni wrote:
The only reasoning you have given is that hzflank was the 3rd person to say yes to random lynch, thus he was pretending to agree with it to show that he is not afraid.
I'm sorry. Do you have a better reason for the people you've voted for?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 15:55 GMT
#148
On November 01 2013 00:53 Grackaroni wrote:
This whole game is lurkers lol
still didn't answer his question. Why would an RNG lynch be better than a lurker lynch?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 16:41 GMT
#155
On November 01 2013 01:12 hzflank wrote:
Why is that relevant to your vote? Would you not have voted for me if there seemed to be no support for it?
Possibly not. If I thought someone was scummy but I didn't think there was any chance that person could get lynched then I probably wouldn't waste my vote there.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 16:44 GMT
#156
On November 01 2013 01:13 Grackaroni wrote:
That is the reason why statistically day 1 RNG lynches come out more successful than analysis.
Is this a fact?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 16:53 GMT
#158
On November 01 2013 01:24 Laughing Jack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 23:49 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:19 Laughing Jack wrote:
I think we should be one Jarjar less at the end of this day.
##Vote: JarjarDrinks

care to elaborate?

Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey all. First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted.

Also, I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. Most notably hzflank because he only said he was for it after people brought it up. Like, even though it's only a 30% chance, if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." So he makes his post saying he'd be for a RNG lynch to show everyone that he's not afraid of it. Even going as far as saying
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How in the world could his odds actually be worse than random? Even if he had no scumhunting skill whatsoever, it would be @ worst equal to random.


Jarjar doesn't bring up anything new but just says he's against randomlynching, However most of the post is just fluff about what rng-lynching is to make it seem like his saying more then "Yeah I agree". And it's very certainly fluff because he doesn't reach a conclusion with it.
What do you mean I don't bring up anything new? I'm the first person to bring up that supporting RNG lynch is scummy. Whether or not you agree w/ it, it's something new. And who really cares if I brought up something new? I commented on the main topic of conversation.

And what exactly do you mean by "he doesn't reach a conclusion with it"? What conclusion could I have reached?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 17:10 GMT
#163
On November 01 2013 01:57 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 01:44 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 01 2013 01:13 Grackaroni wrote:
That is the reason why statistically day 1 RNG lynches come out more successful than analysis.
Is this a fact?

It says so in the TL Mafia Database.

OK, I just saw that. I was thinking that you meant games where people actually employed a random lynch.

Ok based on that information you can assume that random lynch on day 1 will in fact lynch scum more often on day 1. However, I'd be willing to bet that it would result in a town win less of the time. For reasons already pointed out regarding the amount of information gathered.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 17:12 GMT
#164
On November 01 2013 02:09 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 02:03 Stutters695 wrote:
On November 01 2013 01:13 Grackaroni wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:55 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:53 Grackaroni wrote:
This whole game is lurkers lol
still didn't answer his question. Why would an RNG lynch be better than a lurker lynch?

Because it can't be influenced by scum giving us good odds. That is the reason why statistically day 1 RNG lynches come out more successful than analysis.

This is terrible reasoning. The odds of lynching a scum from the hardcore(1-5 posts max, with a vote to stay alive and no contribution has the exact same odds as picking someone at random but provides an added benefit in the form of reducing the room scum has to hide in the inactives.

I don't really wish to argue over the benefits of RNG but you are wrong. Scum can push town lurkers and we would be none the wiser. RNG is completely objective.
Well @ the very least, wouldn't it make more sense to randomly choose someone out of the lurkers?

/still against random lynching
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 17:34 GMT
#167
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 12:37 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:24 Bereft wrote:
grack, if you really wanted to throw weight behind that vote, why not at least RNG it? instead of picking your favorite singaporean, that is. which has tons of favoritism bias. since we have extra mafia this game, RNG gives us a 31% chance of hitting scum, instead of the typical ~25%. we're all reasonable and rational people here, logic appeals to us [i'd hope].
On October 31 2013 12:13 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:10 Asinine wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:07 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:53 Asinine wrote:
Hello comrades. I will be doing an ASA (Ask Smurf Anything) today. It starts now. I cannot guarantee that I will answer any questions that seem to be fishing for my real TL account.


What is Qatar like?

Another thought elicits it's
familiars
Crowding their weight into the
chamber
Of my weary, doleful mind

What right does he possess
To exhaust my idle time
By way of his enslaving image.

I have come to the conclusion that this man is Palmar.
There will be no further questions!

no, i want to ask a question -- why does pandain only get to ask one.
asinine, what's your reason for smurfing? i can think of only 2 reasons. which one is yours:
[a] you have a reputation known throughout the land of being an excellent scum hunter, and you don't want to die night 1.
[b] you believe your meta is so obvious people would be able to read your play day 1.
[c] other (please expand)

Those are some pretty good odds. I'm not against RNG if people are up for it.


I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How could anyone read this post and not think you were for random lynching?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 18:03 GMT
#172
On November 01 2013 02:37 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 02:34 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:37 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:24 Bereft wrote:
grack, if you really wanted to throw weight behind that vote, why not at least RNG it? instead of picking your favorite singaporean, that is. which has tons of favoritism bias. since we have extra mafia this game, RNG gives us a 31% chance of hitting scum, instead of the typical ~25%. we're all reasonable and rational people here, logic appeals to us [i'd hope].
On October 31 2013 12:13 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:10 Asinine wrote:
On October 31 2013 12:07 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:53 Asinine wrote:
Hello comrades. I will be doing an ASA (Ask Smurf Anything) today. It starts now. I cannot guarantee that I will answer any questions that seem to be fishing for my real TL account.


What is Qatar like?

Another thought elicits it's
familiars
Crowding their weight into the
chamber
Of my weary, doleful mind

What right does he possess
To exhaust my idle time
By way of his enslaving image.

I have come to the conclusion that this man is Palmar.
There will be no further questions!

no, i want to ask a question -- why does pandain only get to ask one.
asinine, what's your reason for smurfing? i can think of only 2 reasons. which one is yours:
[a] you have a reputation known throughout the land of being an excellent scum hunter, and you don't want to die night 1.
[b] you believe your meta is so obvious people would be able to read your play day 1.
[c] other (please expand)

Those are some pretty good odds. I'm not against RNG if people are up for it.


I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How could anyone read this post and not think you were for random lynching?


Because the whole point of that was that I did not like the idea of random lynching because I was worried that scum might control the random.
This is exactly my point. You pretend like you're ok w/ random lynching when you are clearly concerned about it. First you say that you're worried about who gets to choose the random person. Then when it's pointed out to you that there is indeed a way for a random selection to be chosen, you change your stance to: If we lynch randomly then we wont get any discussion.

If that was your stance then what was the point of suggesting that we vote for someone to pick the random person?
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 18:38 GMT
#179
On November 01 2013 03:25 Laughing Jack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 01:53 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 01 2013 01:24 Laughing Jack wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:49 Grackaroni wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:19 Laughing Jack wrote:
I think we should be one Jarjar less at the end of this day.
##Vote: JarjarDrinks

care to elaborate?

On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey all. First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted.

Also, I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. Most notably hzflank because he only said he was for it after people brought it up. Like, even though it's only a 30% chance, if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." So he makes his post saying he'd be for a RNG lynch to show everyone that he's not afraid of it. Even going as far as saying
On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:
I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it.
How in the world could his odds actually be worse than random? Even if he had no scumhunting skill whatsoever, it would be @ worst equal to random.


Jarjar doesn't bring up anything new but just says he's against randomlynching, However most of the post is just fluff about what rng-lynching is to make it seem like his saying more then "Yeah I agree". And it's very certainly fluff because he doesn't reach a conclusion with it.
What do you mean I don't bring up anything new? I'm the first person to bring up that supporting RNG lynch is scummy. Whether or not you agree w/ it, it's something new. And who really cares if I brought up something new? I commented on the main topic of conversation.

And what exactly do you mean by "he doesn't reach a conclusion with it"? What conclusion could I have reached?

No, oats said why we shouldn't rng. You just talked some general reasoning for why scum/town would or wouldn't want to rng. You said townies shouldn't want to do it and that scum wouldn't want to do it. A lot of people were confused to what you actually ment. And that was because you didn't type it with any conclusion in mind. You could had reached a conclusion by for example saying.
I believe scum wouldn't do this because the risk it pose to themselves are high, so rng supporters are town.
or
I believe townies wouldn't do this because it's bad play so rng supporters are scum.
Regardless if what you choose is true or not picking one side means you believe in it or are pretending to believe in it. Picking neither means you're full of fluff.
But fine, so what do you mean by rng is scummy, which was what you were first to bring up?, Is it that it is bad townplay and scummy because of it. Then how was it you and not Oats who brought that up?
Oats said RNG was bad. I said the people that were supporting it were scummy. Not exactly the same thing.

And I explained what I meant about why townies and scum both wouldn't really want it. It's not just a black and White conclusion like you're making it out to be. What do you think about RNG lynching? For someone claiming that my posts are full of fluff, I sure don't know what your opinion is on pretty much anything.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 31 2013 19:15 GMT
#182
On November 01 2013 04:08 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 03:03 JarJarDrinks wrote:
If that was your stance then what was the point of suggesting that we vote for someone to pick the random person?


I suggested that we vote for someone so that we do not have to vote for someone. That is not a serious suggestion, that is me saying that I want to vote and not rng.
OK, you're saying that you were being sarcastic in that post as well as the following one. Didn't understand that's what you were saying. If that's the case then it didn't come across that way to me at all but I can definately see it that way now.

Since that was the bulk of my case:

##unvote hzflank
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 01 2013 02:37 GMT
#230
2 things

- I thought I already explained this but: I never said my reason for voting hzflank was because other people suspected him. I voted for him because I felt he was scummy for my own reason and the fact that other people also suspected him made it so I felt comfortable putting my vote there because I thought there was a decent chance that he would get lynched. If everyone in the thread thought he was like super town then I probably don't vote for him because I don't want to waste time voting for someone that has no chance of being lynched.

- I didn't reconsider my opinion because it got shit on. I changed my opinion because I believe I misinterpreted what hzflank was saying. I wasn't the only person that missed his sarcasm but now that he pointed it out I think it's very likely that he was indeed against a random lynch from the getgo.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 01 2013 03:22 GMT
#242
I think I'm not liking laughing jack right now. Go look @ his posts. He pretty much attacks me and that's it. Like he tells me my posts are fluff because I don't reach a conclusion about the RNG thing (even though I did). And then when I ask him outright what his position on it is, he dodges the question.

The rest of his posts are him asking other people their opinions.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
November 01 2013 03:38 GMT
#246
FWIW I don't currently think Oats is scum. In fact I kinda agree him that grack seems to be defending me a little too hard. Like I obviously don't think I'm acting scummy, but he just seems way too sure that I'm town.

And would either of you care to comment on laughing jack ?
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