EPT/in
Newbie Mini Mafia XLI
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
I really can't think of any situation that would call for it, especially with the "play to win" being emphasized. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
Anyway, I was going to throw my vote right back at nobodywonder, but I feel VayneAuthority is slightly suspicious. Wrong lynching is obviously bad but mafia can use the extra, safe time to more effect I think. Time to get breakfast and ponder.  | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
Feels kind of weird that you'd make an argument against Vayne, line up all the possible ways to interpret his first two posts and then question me when I'm basically agreeing with you. But I was gonna chalk that up to you wanting to get the ball rolling, which I suppose is working, so good job on that. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
[B]On May 04 2013 23:27 Spicydinosaur wrote:[B] As for the remaining lurkers, it seems that a votes on a lurker gets them posting. Should we continue this trend until all are posting? Ie: vote for a lurker, then when they start posting unvote them? For record I was asleep when the game started  The votes had nothing to do with why I started posting when I did, but the tactic might still be viable I suppose.LAL = Lynch All Lurkers. How is the point of LAL not lynching the lurkers? It doesn't matter how hard you state that you will lynch all lurkers, unless you actually lynch them all there will always be lurkers. Policy lynching aims to remove a certain type of behaviour or a certain type of action from the game. If you don't enforce the policy, it may as well not be. Obviously you have to enforce it, that doesn't change what its intended purpose it. If you could use the policy to actually get people to post rather than just lynching them and getting rid of inactivity that way, wouldn't that be the better scenario? | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 05 2013 11:09 calgar wrote: As far as not lynching goes - it's absolutely terrible and town should never entertain this idea. End of story, no need to discuss something useless like this or hear reasons. I dislike how you're trying to imply uncertainty in your decisions and what you say. I get you logic except this part. I specifically stated that I didn't know if it was useless. What if it wasn't useless, should I not learn it? And you should always get reasons for everything. Which is why Vaynes vote for Targe is just another suspicious move on his part, however right it may be the logic needs to be there and the reasons need to be known. Anyway, all of JarJarDrinks posts so far have been concerning policy lynching. No attempts at anything else, and if he really felt so strongly about the policy he would have voted, not spent all his posts discussing whether or not we should. My vote is for him. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
So far my scumradar shows kirby and calgar as scumbuddies. Kirby does very little in the beginning, suspiciously so if you ask me. This doesn't say much, however, since most posts at the very beginning are short and without a lot of content. But he doesn't try and start any discussions and gives short answers. He does make a good post a bit later on were he points his suspicions on nobodywonder, eSpi.Casey, and shirokami. Lucky for them, they so far have no votes on the entire team. Scum will attempt to distance themselves from each other, but will hate to risk one of them dying on the first day. Now I found this bit interesting, because I do believe that mafia could play like that, distancing themselves that is, but also if kirby does believe that wouldn't he play mafia that way? As it happens he and Calgar pretty much avoided each other completely in the beginning, not so weird for kirby since he barely did anything but it is weird for Calgar. Calgar gave his opinion on plenty of people, including lurkers, yet passed over kirby. Instead he focused on me. Which is fine, I don't think my first day posting was very good. But I also think his reaction was a little strong. So these two ignoring each other I found strange. They did have a conversation towards the end that gives me even more doubt. They both want JarJar off and both think Targe seems more suspicious, but both in fact make no actual attempt to save him, since as mafia they'd know he was town(or SK). The situation was pretty grim for JarJar so in theory if they are scumbuddies one could have voted for JarJar and he would certainly still have gotten lynched, but that is assuming they were worried enough about such suspicions. On the subject of Targe, my read on this guy isn't very good. He certainly doesn't seem that towny right now, short posts, not a lot of original content. I'd really like to hear Vaynes read on him now, if he has now deemed it acceptable for whatever reason. Vayne is definitely acting suspiciously, but he is quite active and not afraid answering questions (except for the "I'm not gonna tell yet" incident.) At this point I'd say he's more SK than town, and more town than mafia. But nothing conclusive. JampiDampi is town, according to me. Probably the person who has done most to get discussions going, and asking for more research material (vaynes previous games). I feel fairly confident in my read of Jampi being town. Nobodywonder doesn't seem quite town to me, but I feel kirby and Calgar are much stronger suspects. And nobody does ask some questions and try for some discussion. If it would turn out that kirby/calgar can't be mafia nobody would probably be next on my list. As it stands kirbys suspicion (as I believe he is mafia) would make me think nobody is town for now. Casey and shirokami haven't done that much, about the same as me until now I feel, although their posts have been slightly better. I'd like to see more from both of them soon. As it is I really don't know who kirby an calgar's third man would be, anyone got any ideas? Think I'm totally off? Let's make the most of the wrong lynch right now so we are well prepared for day 2. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 06 2013 22:37 jampidampi wrote: Sugarfluff, is there any non-jrkirby related reason that Calgar is scum? You really shouldn't associate before the flip. Does this mean we won't your reasons for voting Targe until day two? I realize we will have more information when day 2 begins and those with roles have gathered some info but I thought we could begin early. Even if kirby isn't mafia Calgar seemed to pick his suspicions consciously and I definitely find that suspicious on its own. AllHailHydra seems like a good poster and I can't wait to study his reasoning's, I have to go now but looking forward to the game picking up. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 07 2013 00:30 AllHailHydraGod wrote: @Sugarfluff what do you think about calgar and nobodywonder's interaction with each other? Are you seriously implying that you know how an SK would play, and that Vayne is doing it? What's your experience with forum mafia? I have no experience, but I'd imagine he'd want to be helpful while at the same time making sure no cop looks him over or mafia targets him. On May 08 2013 00:20 Spicydinosaur wrote: @sugarfluff seems kinda scummy to me. In the beginning he didn't really post all too often and when he did he used emoticons. I know that's not a huge red flag but it just felt off. They are used to lighten the mood and as a sign of joking, but this is mafia and town has to be serious to get scum. My real trouble with him starts with his voting of jarjar. He gives his reasoning below: At this point in sugarfluff's filter, he hasn't really said too much himself. His posts are virtually all about policy as well aside from his conversation with jampidampi on page 8. My main reason for starting what became the lynching of JarJar was not the fact that he only discussed the the lurker policy, but that he was for it and didn't actually vote for any lurkers to get them to start posting. Seemed suspicious and contradictory to me, it didn't to you? The only true meaty post that he wrote is this: He calls out calgar for passing over kirby and shows that they had similar suspicions. sugarfluff I think put too much emphasis on this "passing over." Most of us when we are giving analysis of the group only take a select portion. Heck sugarfluff didnt post any comments on me. His comments on the others are quite general and have already been reflected in other people's posts. Yupp I did miss you, but then again I don't find you nearly as suspicious as I would have thought Calgar would have found jrkirby. I feel overall that he is only posting general opinions with not much meat. His voting of jarjar first seems the most troubling to me because of the hypocrisy of it. You are contradicting yourself here, my voting of JarJar was the first one, certainly not a general opinion at that time. Nor is it hypocritical, for reasons stated above. On May 07 2013 03:12 calgar wrote: @sugarfluff - Is there a reason you've ignored my previous questions addressed to you? This makes me feel like you aren't reading what I'm saying. I assume this is what you are referring to? You haven't really built a case on anyone - why is that? You've outlined a small amount jarjar - is he really your top scumread right now? What do you think about shirokami lurking hard and then popping in Yup, JarJar was my top read, I stand by the vote I cast at that time. I thought he was suspicious. Shirokami had a reason, yes his reason could be used as a tactic and maybe I am too trusting in this game. But at the time I certainly did not think he was that suspicious, nor do I think voting for him would have brought much. You've made no other questions, only stated your suspicions. Which I found quite baseless compared to other stuff in this thread. On May 07 2013 01:42 jampidampi wrote: Sorry, my post was a little unclear, the second part was at Vayne. I'd like to hear more about your suspicions on Calgar, how are his suspicions picked consciously? How does that make him scum? Picked consciously as in he was very anti lurking/bad content posts and he brings that up but completely skips jrkirbys, whos big post doesn't come until later at which point Calgars reaction is nothing more than asking a short question to this lurker who up until that post has done nothing (I had not done much, but kirbys filter at that point is freakishly devoid of actual content). On May 07 2013 03:54 Targe wrote: Sugarfluff: Your entire post concerning Calgar and kirby relies on them being scumbuddies, what read do you have on them as individuals? Them being scumbuddies makes sense, and Calgars passing over kirby relies on that (if either one is town it's just weird behavior from Calgar) but Kirby on his own does not have a great track record. For the start he may as well have been lurking, his big post is not as inclusive as it could be, he brings up a scum team with very little evidence and in the following time he has done nothing to reinforce or change his view. He just makes sure everyone knows that he knew that JarJar was town. I'm staying in tonight btw, so if you want to ask more questions I will answer them sooner this time. Now for a late dinner. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 08 2013 04:57 calgar wrote: @sugarfluff - I guess it's fair to say I've tunneled you but you really haven't given me any reason to stop. Part of the reason I have been is to prompt you to talk more. Instead you've ignored my questions to date and that adds to my feeling of unease about you. I also really dislike your case for some of the same reasons spicydinosaur does. It seems like you've made a lot of stretches and built it on poor premises. You've factored prominently a connection (or lack therof) between me and kirby, but I fail to see the relevance here. You mention that we haven't really interacted, but naturally I'm not going to be able to interact with everyone substantially or at all in the first few days. I haven't really had much to say to several other players such as spicy and shirokami - why no case built between us then? Even if we were both mafia, we might decide to interact a whole lot. You've imagined this master plan that we have where we plan when to interact and that just doesn't make any sense to me - you can build a 'case' on anyone based on this strategy. So yeah, give me a reason to back off and I will. Until then I really don't like your play at all, and I'm surprised more people haven't been on your case for it. Are you ever going to respond to my questions? This post sprung up while I was writing mine, so I guess you would find some answers in the post I just made. But to clarify I will reiterate with the hope of being clearer. I did not answer one of your questions but I answered others so I hardly feel I've ignored your questions to date. There actually is interaction between you and kirby, I find your lack of criticism for this obviously poor poster suspicious. You did give attention to shirokami in the beginning, and he was pretty much the same as kirby except he took the time to tell us/make up a reason for such low content posting (and has since then improved on it) | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 08 2013 05:51 VayneAuthority wrote: Only 1 death tonight so I think we can rule out an SK. I don't, jampi could have been universally targeted. SK could have been blocked. His target been protected. 1 death does very little to disprove a possible SK. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 08 2013 08:37 calgar wrote: As far as I'm concerned, shirokami's filter is the one that is frekishly devoid of actual content right now. Why aren't you more concerned about him as a lurker than jrkirby? shiro has given vague excuses and one read all game, way less than kirby has done. If I had briefly mentioned kirby initially instead of shiro, would you be suspicious of us two instead? As far as me "completely skip"ing kirby, you're just as guilty of completely skipping over casey and shiro. Casey hasn't been that bad, although I don't have townread on him either. Shiros filter is indeed a very sad thing, and his continued delays are getting more and more suspicious. But people were already pointing out his lurking and voicing suspicions about it. I wanted to hear kirby speak up, and I wanted to see how you'd react. Quite frankly I thought you reacted poorly, but reading through my posts I realized that I never outright asked you, what do you think of kirby? You still have not given an opinion on him. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 09 2013 06:35 calgar wrote: Well kirby has been gone for basically 2 days now so he's basically lurking as hard as shiro is, except he was more useful before and had a decent post speculating on a team. I think I read town because I understand how he was bothered by the late bandwagon switch. Switching to no lynch was a weird way to go about it but I think the meta from their previous games may have affected his views in a way which looks odd to us. Having said that, I don't really understand why he has disappeared for so long and I don't really see scum disappearing for 2 straight days, though who knows with WIFOM and all. So I'll say slight town but very confused as to why he has vanished. All right, fair enough. As of this moment we have a lot of people failing to contribute; shirokami keeps delaying, kirby has been missing a long time, and nobody has been gone pretty much just as long. Obviously some of these lurkers are town, which makes lynching a lurker not that pretty of a prospect, unless other reasons are brought up for voting them. Hope any or all of you guys do post before the day ends. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On the subject of role-claiming, I'm vanilla town. Out of the remaining players not many could be town. No one seems to be disputing Spicy being the one that shot Targe, so that pretty much makes him town. Which means out of Casey, Calgar and Vayne only one can be town. So the lynches. Calgar and Casey (and me) voted for Shirokami and got him lynched, while Vayne was set on Targe (as he had been from the beginning). Calgar voted for me day 1, Vayne voted for Targe. And me and Casey voted for JarJar. Not very useful on their own actually, Vayne was the only one on the correct guy. I still stand by the votes I cast, I thought Jarjar was suspicious and Shirokami was a worthwhile lynch anyhow. I do believe Vayne is town at this point, which means that Calgar and Casey are scum. It comes down to getting a town read on Vayne more than anything really. I'll be voting Casey as such. No point in putting a vote on Calgar that won't get through, better to get the few remaining town votes together on a lynch. The other, crazier, theory would be Vayne sitting as the mafia mastermind, plotting around our silly first game antics. I do think he is the best player here. Even so it'd be pretty impressive if he, you know, picked a fellow mafia day 1 (Targe) voted for him but gave no reason. It'd be a risk but we were stumbling about at the time and Vayne is an active fellow, he could probably have rectified the situation if it came to that. He keeps pushing the issue while not overriding any other more popular lynches, until eventually Targe is shot and we have a renewed trust for Vayne. The two modkills would be like an incredibly lucky break for him though, not one that could have been calculated and without them Targe would have been a huge sacrifice. Although as a mafia, who now has everyone's trust he could turn to the remaining town without much suspicion. He'd have to build a pretty convincing argument for Spicy so I'm the better target. I wonder... No matter what happens now I am definitely interested in seeing who turns scum. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
Yea I don't actually think you are the Godfather Vayne, although it'd line up with you claiming regular town (as a godfather would turn up as one in an investigation), just think it'd be an awesome plot twist. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 13 2013 01:33 Spicydinosaur wrote: This post is also quite troubling as it reads like town is making a mistake. It really reads like us lynching casey is a bad lynch. He then says the last scum will be pretty exposed without really explaining why. This just feels completely off to me. It doesn't read like that at all, I merely expressed a small regret of the situation. I really need to explain why the last scum would be exposed? Anyone breaking off of the casey lynch would accomplish nothing and grab tons of unwanted attention. Sugarfluff has put more accusations against townies and has gotten them killed while Calgar has had suspicions of a few and a couple of them turned out to be scum. As such I believe Sugarfluff is the last scum. True, my vote has always been on the one being lynched, although I hardly find it strange. You yourself said voting for shirokami can't exactly say much. I was the person to start voting for JarJar, had no idea he'd actually be lynched, but he did seem scummy to me. And casey was the obvious vote for the last lynch. | ||
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Sugarfluff
Sweden132 Posts
On May 13 2013 00:53 calgar wrote: Despite what you say about looking forward here, you go on to be a key reason activity decreases. I think one reason you might have felt the need to lurk is that your "big case" you tried to push on me and jrkirby didn't go anywhere. Since no one bought into it, if you kept pushing them it would be obvious you were fabricating a case, and if you backed up and changed reads then you would look scummy as well for being unsure/noncommittal/trying to spread suspicion everywhere. Ok seriously, I am the main reason activity decreased? Not even close, it's just stupid and slightly insulting. Of course I said I was looking forward to the game when flowcaster was replaced. But then nobody and jrkirby followed in his footsteps. They are the "mega-lurkers", not me. Of course the case didn't go anywhere, it was based mostly on Jrkirbys bad play and your weird interaction with him and your refusal to try and save JarJar even though you thought Targe was scummier; instead you kept your vote on me, that's pretty non committal if you ask me. Dude you weren't free of suspicion before I proposed you as scum. JarJar pegged you early. jrkirby and Calgar. One of these guys is scum. There's always a scummy soft defending a townie before he gets lynched. I really hate Calgars scum reads so far but kirby changing to no lynch when there was a chance I could be saved (remember he said he read me as town) was pretty bad. If I had to guess I'd lean toward Calgar being the scummy, especially if I'm right about Targe. It seems useful to me on their own, actually. I think it's useful because to me, the difference is that you poorly justified your decision to lynch shirokami and have hidden your reads throughout the game. In your initial batch of posts which you have admitted wasn't very good, you put up a vague accusation on vayne. Wow, now you are really just grasping. My reason for voting shirokami is poorly justified? That's just crazy, and you were on him from the start. Also it was me that pointed out that jrkirby and nobody would be modkilled. If I was mafia I could have been scott free voting for kirby and letting that bit of insight just slide by. You then make one of your only posts with legitimate content (spoilered for reference), the one about me and jrkirby having a plan where he would lurk at the beggining, I would post but ignore him, and somehow because I commented on other lurkers but not him we're a scumteam? I've already expressed my concern about the faulty logic and jumping to conclusions based off of a purely by chance lack of interaction early in the thread that you use with this case. The logic was not off, your lack of interaction was ONE reason I found that suspicious. Your initial reaction when you did take notice of such a lurker was weird as well, along with the conversation you had with kirby about whether to save Jarjar or not. Another thing is the fact that he barely ever mentions people he votes for specifically shirokami and casey. His first mention is quite brief: I found his two posts before lynching shirokami to be disturbing. It was definitely troubling that shiro kept delaying. You admit that some of them are obviously town and throw in a "hope you guys post more!" right before you disappear for DAYS! You admit that they might be town but then you're willing to vote him because you're more confident of his scummyness, even though you barely mention him in the thread and don't analyze him at all? What?! I see no towny play here, no initiative, no desire to scumhunt or push your reads. You pop in, throw your vote on the guy who has a lot of votes, and leave. I was quite perplexed by this, until I realized that as scum it's your job to convince everyone else I'm scum. So I guess I just need to poke the obvious holes in this to make sure its not misinterpreted. I scumhunted. Mostly kirby as it happens. The fact that I switched from kirby is made perfectly clear (he was gonna be modkilled and any vote for him was a waste) and was most definitely the right decision to make. I pushed my reads on you plenty, I have been committed. You get all this non committal crap from a few posts day one where very few people where posting well at all. The other, crazier, theory would be Vayne sitting as the mafia mastermind, plotting around our silly first game antics. I do think he is the best player here. Even so it'd be pretty impressive if he, you know, picked a fellow mafia day 1 (Targe) voted for him but gave no reason. It'd be a risk but we were stumbling about at the time and Vayne is an active fellow, he could probably have rectified the situation if it came to that. He keeps pushing the issue while not overriding any other more popular lynches, until eventually Targe is shot and we have a renewed trust for Vayne. The two modkills would be like an incredibly lucky break for him though, not one that could have been calculated and without them Targe would have been a huge sacrifice. Although as a mafia, who now has everyone's trust he could turn to the remaining town without much suspicion. He'd have to build a pretty convincing argument for Spicy so I'm the better target. I wonder... No matter what happens now I am definitely interested in seeing who turns scum. What are you trying to accomplish with this paragraph? It seems that literally you are trying to suggest vayne may be the last scum, even though you just accused me (with no reasoning, no less). Everyone considers vayne to be solidly town so you have to qualify your suspicion with weakening phrases like "crazy", "i wonder..". I don't think you're going to be able to mislynch him here by making up this farfetched theory about how he is really a mastermind puppeteer running circles around everyone with flawless play. @spicy Since you're likely dead soon make sure to leave us all of your final reads. That took a very long time to write so I'll be back tonight to see your thoughts. | ||
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