• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:29
CET 13:29
KST 21:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage0Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION3
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion SnOw on 'Experimental' Nonstandard Maps in ASL [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Ladder Map Matchup Stats
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Big Reveal
Peanutsc
Challenge: Maths isn't all…
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1633 users

Aligulac Feb 6 Update: Oops

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 10:11:38
February 07 2013 00:26 GMT
#1
What's this?

Aligulac.com is an ongoing statistical project and website in development started in December 2012. It offers a comprehensive database of games from the pro and semipro SC2 scene, as well as a unique rating system aimed at rating players and teams, and predicting games.

The FAQ might be able to answer your questions. If not, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so you can ask away here.

Also, before we start, I want to quote Heartland from one of my previous threads who had this to share, better put into words than I ever could.

On February 03 2013 02:50 Heartland wrote:
I think what's cool and great about this work is that it does what statistics are good for. They give you the ability to create data and then to look at it critically. But maybe people in this thread confuse statistics with the Truth with a capital p (sic). That's not the way you should read statistics, whether in the morning paper or on TL. Rather statistics can make us think about deeper connections that we haven't seen before, twist and turn around concepts and play with them through statistical models. They're not meant to say "Scarlett should be in Code S." Obviously there are flaws or issues with these stats, but it's common for statistics everywhere. What you can do with that is to add or change some modifier, let it meet other forms of reasoning or to extrapolate on what we take for granted.

So yeah, tl;dr, lies, damn lies and statistics are the case with all stats but it's not the point of stats.

So, let's get on with the news.

Ratings bug

Aside from a lot of minor improvements, two significant things have happened. On Monday I got an e-mail from a certain Zomia, who had lots of constructive feedback to the site.

You see, I initially envisioned this site to be about ratings, but now it's more of a TLPD-like thing, which is to say it's a database of results, and most of the development lately has been related to that. But Zomia convinced me to go back and look at the rating system once more, and lo and behold, there was a bug.

Strictly speaking, the bug was not in the rating system, but in the code that I used analyze it and pick parameters. Until now I have basically been basing these numbers off of flawed information. No longer! As it turns out this is for everyone's benefit, because it allowed me to tweak the system to be more conservative (which a lot of people have been wanting), while giving it the predictive power that I thought it had, and which it now actually has.

+ Show Spoiler [Proof] +
[image loading]


This graph plots all 114k+ games, categorizing them by predicted winrate for the presumed strongest player on the horizontal axis, and actual winrate for same on the vertical axis. That's the thick black line. The blue line shows a weighted linear fit, while the red line is the ideal that we want. The system tends to slightly overestimate the strength of the strongest player up to a game winrate of 80%. From then on the overestimation might be significant. (Note that this is game winrate, not Bo3 or Bo5 winrate, which is higher.)

Hopefully this can convince everyone that it's working just fine now.

The upshot of this is that the rating list looks much more sensible, as does the Hall of Fame (which I've changed a bit how it works), which is now topped by people like MC, MKP and Mvp.

So to those of you who have been critiquing me, I owe you an apology.

Add results! Now easy even for grandma

Now, to the results database. We have 114 thousand games. That's about twice the size of sc2charts.net and about a third more than TLPD has, which makes us the most complete publically available pro/semipro SC2 database in the world (Blizzard's internal database is neither). Which is fine by me, I don't much care for sc2charts.net, and while TLPD is great the international database is not kept up to date very well any more.

Yet, I don't blame them. Creating this database with little more than just four people pulling the cart, I've learned that this shit's hard.

That is why we have opened for everyone to submit results. You can do that here: http://aligulac.com/add/

Publically submitted results will be subject to review by us before becoming visible. If you are interested, you can still PM me and get an admin account, which will allow you to:
  • submit results directly without all the review bother.
  • change, create and delete players, teams, matches...
  • review other people's submitted results.
  • sort matches into our events catalogue, which is still missing about 40% of the database.
  • mark the offline games as offline (some people wanted a separate rating for offline games, but that can't happen until this sorting is done).
  • bug me for feature requests (priority given to helpers).
  • just about anything else you can think of.
So, if your favourite player is rated too low, I suggest you go out and find some games that they won and add them for us.

(Kinda joking, but also kinda not.)

Thanks to the unknown guy out there who submitted IPTL this morning, and thus unknowingly became the first to use this system. (No idea who you are...)

Now, as usual the ratings have been updated to the latest two-week period. This one includes results from the two first days of GSL Code A and the preliminaries, most of GSL Code S Ro32, Proleague, IPL qualifiers, IPTL, Iron Squid finals, a handful of go4sc2s and ZOTACs and a bunch of other tournaments.

Zerg is still ahead in the top of the ladder, but this time it's Terran who is lagging behind, and not (as is usually the case) Protoss.

(I'm a little bit earlier this time so the list can be out in time for the GSL Ro16.)

Current top 10
  1. Life 2256 (+4 after Iron Squid)
  2. PartinG 2239 (+15 after Code S Ro32, MLG quals and FXO inv. playoffs)
  3. Leenock 2235 (no change after FXO Inv. playoffs)
  4. Bomber 2233 (+12 after Code S Ro32)
  5. Rain 2211 (-9 after Proleague and Code A prelims)
  6. DongRaeGu 2203 (+41 after IPL intl. regionals, Iron Squid, and Code S Ro32)
  7. TaeJa 2194 (-1 after Code S Ro32 and a delayed game from IPL intl. regional)
  8. RorO 2179 (+93 after Proleague, Code S Ro32 and MLG quals)
  9. Scarlett 2137 (no games)
  10. viOLet 2132 (no games)
Parting and Leenock have switched places, same with DongRaeGu and Taeja. Roro and Violet make their appearances while Hero and Last drop out. Roro and DRG make the biggest jumps upwards.

Foreigner top 10
  1. Scarlett 2137
  2. Stephano 2015
  3. VortiX 2014
  4. Snute 1973
  5. LucifroN 1947
  6. Sen 1909
  7. Kas 1886
  8. Fraer 1869
  9. TitaN 1868
  10. Nerchio 1826
The foreigner list is still Zerg heavy, but not as much as before maybe. Nobody in the top 10 gained any points, except Snute who shot up 136 after playing a ton of games.

Top 10 teams
  1. MVP 91.44%
  2. StarTale 91.11%
  3. SK Telecom T1 91.04%
  4. Incredible Miracle 90.14%
  5. AZUBU 89.08%
  6. Team Liquid 88.75%
  7. Prime 86.25%
  8. FXOpen e-Sports Korea 85.96%
  9. STX SouL 84.76%
  10. Evil Geniuses 84.44%
This is the allkill rank, and it's very close in the top. StarTale has lost their big advantage, and SKT T1 keeps making their name as the strongest Kespa team.

The proleague rank looks like this:
  1. SK Telecom T1 79.26%
  2. MVP 78.80%
  3. Incredible Miracle 74.91%
  4. AZUBU 74.71%
  5. StarTale 72.00%
  6. STX SouL 67.12%
  7. Team Liquid 66.52%
  8. Prime 62.50%
  9. Evil Geniuses 61.92%
  10. FXOpen e-Sports Korea 60.87%
Still close between SKT T1 and MVP, who might be the strongest teams (on paper) at the moment. StarTale is comparatively weaker in this format (their roster is topped out with Life and Bomber), while STX is stronger.

(Note team ranks are based on player ratings and rosters, not actual team matches.)

Thanks

To my team of trusted helpers: Conti, kiekaboe, Grovbolle, PhoenixVoid, Inflicted_ (new) and scisyhp (new). This project would never have been possible without you.

This week particularly to Zomia whose feedback led me to reconsider a few things.

Also to my academic advisor whose timely conference trip abroad allowed me the free time to waste.

Bonus

If you haven't seen the player connectivity graph yet you need to check it out. It's the kind of thing that makes this work truly worth it, I feel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396566

+ Show Spoiler [Awesomeness inside] +
[image loading]
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
February 07 2013 00:32 GMT
#2
You guys are awesome and I always love seeing your statistics. Not much I can add to the discussion but I think you do great work.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32742 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 00:45:14
February 07 2013 00:41 GMT
#3
Hahaha, the person who submitted the IPTL results was ME! The system reset, and I forgot I had to login again, which I only realized after seeing the message that showed I was not logged in.

Funnily enough, I still didn't do it properly, forgot the "Source".
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
edwahn
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand121 Posts
February 07 2013 00:44 GMT
#4
Brilliant update, I really enjoy this website and hope to contribute some day
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
February 07 2013 00:47 GMT
#5
Small mistake here

2. StarTale 91.11%
3. SK Telecom T1 91.14%


Anyways great job as usual
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
February 07 2013 00:49 GMT
#6
keep up the good work theBB!
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
February 07 2013 00:49 GMT
#7
On February 07 2013 09:47 pPingu wrote:
Small mistake here
Show nested quote +
2. StarTale 91.11%
3. SK Telecom T1 91.14%

Anyways great job as usual

One day I will manage this without having to edit.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 01:01:58
February 07 2013 00:55 GMT
#8
hmm the 80%+ winrates seem to be really poorly predicted. but i guess that makes sense when new people have 1000 points and play against somewhat equally skilled players who have 2000 points. what really matters is the 50-70% region anyways. thx for the update, now i may FINALLY make some money with this thing :D

IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
February 07 2013 00:57 GMT
#9
On February 07 2013 09:55 Greenei wrote:
hmm the 80%+ winrates seem to be really poorly predicted.

Also this could be because of the underlying model (maybe using normal distribution wasn't the best idea, logistic might be better after all... more on this in a later edition maybe), or because there really aren't that many games with 80%+ skill gap.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
February 07 2013 01:01 GMT
#10
On February 07 2013 09:49 opterown wrote:
keep up the good work theBB!

JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 01:02:49
February 07 2013 01:02 GMT
#11
btw: i still think a timeframe independant model would be nice, because it would make ratingupdates quicker. i could understand it though if that's not possible. so here is my idea:

how about a 'predicted rating development'? as in 'if these games, which have been reviewed, were the only games played in this timeframe, this rating would be the result.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
February 07 2013 01:07 GMT
#12
Aligulac is very nearly Caligula backwards. At least they anagram.
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
February 07 2013 01:11 GMT
#13
On February 07 2013 10:07 Day[9] wrote:
Aligulac is very nearly Caligula backwards. At least they anagram.

Whoa. You're right O.O
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
February 07 2013 01:15 GMT
#14
On February 07 2013 10:07 Day[9] wrote:
Aligulac is very nearly Caligula backwards. At least they anagram.

It's not even that complicated. Just move the C to the front or the back.

It's a word I came up with as a kid :-P. I don't remember if Caligula was the inspiration. I guess he could've been.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 01:37:15
February 07 2013 01:36 GMT
#15
Just want to say that you're awesome, TheBB. It's great someone picked up the pieces after TLPD just kinda shattered and made something even better and more complete.

I've been using it quite a bit and it's now my go-to SC2 database site if I need to look up something, thanks a lot to you and all your helpers!

Also, I'm very happy with the foreigner rankings, ROX.KIS fighting!
LockeTazeline
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
2390 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-07 02:06:00
February 07 2013 02:05 GMT
#16
Awesome stuff, as always.

What are you going to do with HotS? I noticed you've already put in the MLG Showdowns.
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
February 07 2013 02:11 GMT
#17
On February 07 2013 10:02 Greenei wrote:
how about a 'predicted rating development'? as in 'if these games, which have been reviewed, were the only games played in this timeframe, this rating would be the result.


so what do you think about this? i just think it would be really cool stuff.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
February 07 2013 02:43 GMT
#18
On February 07 2013 10:07 Day[9] wrote:
Aligulac is very nearly Caligula backwards. At least they anagram.

He has been revealed O.o
User was warned for too many mimes.
idkfa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States77 Posts
February 07 2013 02:56 GMT
#19
Click for cool graphs, evolved!

I like how Sen is a geographic region all by himself!
If you use "literally" as a form of hyperbole, you will literally DIE! (Eventually.)
feanor1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1899 Posts
February 07 2013 03:05 GMT
#20
On February 07 2013 11:56 idkfa wrote:
Click for cool graphs, evolved!

I like how Sen is a geographic region all by himself!

Probably should make SEA "MoonGlade" lol
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Open Qualifier #1
WardiTV308
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #111
ByuN vs NightMareLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings150
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko188
SortOf 144
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 8884
Pusan 532
Stork 506
Mong 220
hero 152
ToSsGirL 123
Killer 102
Aegong 74
Sea.KH 62
Sharp 59
[ Show more ]
sas.Sziky 50
Icarus 27
Dota 2
qojqva796
Dendi438
XcaliburYe142
League of Legends
JimRising 200
Counter-Strike
x6flipin466
Other Games
singsing1963
B2W.Neo1091
crisheroes291
Pyrionflax282
Sick214
Fuzer 156
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL181
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 66
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2236
Other Games
• WagamamaTV168
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
2h 31m
LAN Event
5h 31m
Replay Cast
20h 31m
WardiTV Korean Royale
23h 31m
LAN Event
1d 2h
OSC
1d 10h
The PondCast
1d 21h
LAN Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
LAN Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
LAN Event
4 days
IPSL
4 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
5 days
IPSL
5 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.