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A few things:
-I don't see the rock towers doing too much, seeing as they're on corner paths, and they don't even block them off. -I'd consider changing up the XNT layout, as demonstrated with this picture: + Show Spoiler + Since there's just 1 main path through the center, having XNT's that watch the outer paths may work pretty well.
-Your mineral lines look weird, try looking at some other community maps, or at Blizzard's maps, doing so will help you give your mineral lines a more natural, polished look.
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I like this map quite a bit. I'd enjoy seeing the elevated half base be even more easily harassed from the low ground, though.
I agree with NewSunshine's suggestions. Watchtowers on the side seem like a good idea.
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I really like the double XNT in the middle, not allowing tower control to cover all possbile counter attack paths.
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Actually I wouldn't mind having no watchtowers on this map at all. That might be better than any of the locations you could put them.
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On December 09 2012 10:34 Gfire wrote: Actually I wouldn't mind having no watchtowers on this map at all. That might be better than any of the locations you could put them.
I'd like it if this would happen to every map tbh.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys I'm going to leave the map as is unless something game-breaking occurs. I enjoyed making this map but I personally feel the final product isn't very good . Still if there are some general issues with my map making in general please point them out! I plan to continue making maps, and of course get better
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Lovee the aesthetics. I really like nicely-lit maps.. I wish there were more of them.
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Well i have played a little on the map, and i have found some things that i guess you may already know like the xel'nagas that give vision of each others, but there other issues with the map, like the rock columns in the natural where you can hide units and even buildings inside of them, and some things with the texturing and lack of doodads in some areas (in the braxis cliffswhere youcan see into the darkness below the map )
+ Show Spoiler +This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game Well i personally dislike the terrain (or doodads for that matter) hiding other parts of the map to the player since it can lead to cheese abussing the terrain, if you want to keep the position for the overlords you can put doodads (a small tower or something) surrounded by LoS blockers and pathing blockers, that way the ground units won't be able to see beyond the LoS blockers and therebefore won't be able to see if there's an overlord on top without air support I don't think i have to explain what problems could carry keeping something like this in the map, i suggest you to at least place plathing blockers below the towers in both naturals, and i suggest you to place more pathing blockers or small doodads that block the path in the area that's "in the north" of the trees behind the tower in the north natural. IE the place where i hided the drones in the first picture, so the players can actually see what is on their natural. This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs.
Your map is really likeable in the theme and in the way the map works, when i have more time i will play it more with my friends (this was more of a testing session), i really enjoy it (specially when i put my graphics higher ^^)
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2012 02:29 Uvantak wrote:Well i have played a little on the map, and i have found some things that i guess you may already know like the xel'nagas that give vision of each others, but there other issues with the map, like the rock columns in the natural where you can hide units and even buildings inside of them, and some things with the texturing and lack of doodads in some areas (in the braxis cliffswhere youcan see into the darkness below the map ) + Show Spoiler +This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game Well i personally dislike the terrain (or doodads for that matter) hiding other parts of the map to the player since it can lead to cheese abussing the terrain, if you want to keep the position for the overlords you can put doodads (a small tower or something) surrounded by LoS blockers and pathing blockers, that way the ground units won't be able to see beyond the LoS blockers and therebefore won't be able to see if there's an overlord on top without air support I don't think i have to explain what problems could carry keeping something like this in the map, i suggest you to at least place plathing blockers below the towers in both naturals, and i suggest you to place more pathing blockers or small doodads that block the path in the area that's "in the north" of the trees behind the tower in the north natural. IE the place where i hided the drones in the first picture, so the players can actually see what is on their natural. This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs. Your map is really likeable in the theme and in the way the map works, when i have more time i will play it more with my friends (this was more of a testing session), i really enjoy it (specially when i put my graphics higher ^^) I also suspect that some areas around the edges my be pathable when they should not. I have to study today, but I will try to get your suggested fixes in sometime tomorrow! Thanks so much for the feedback! You have no idea how helpful it is to have someone else join your map and look for bugs!
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On December 11 2012 04:45 Veloh15 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2012 02:29 Uvantak wrote:Well i have played a little on the map, and i have found some things that i guess you may already know like the xel'nagas that give vision of each others, but there other issues with the map, like the rock columns in the natural where you can hide units and even buildings inside of them, and some things with the texturing and lack of doodads in some areas (in the braxis cliffswhere youcan see into the darkness below the map ) + Show Spoiler +This is a real issue, i really think you should take the advice that Sunshine give you, because having two watch towers overlap in this way THIS much is in general really bad for the game Well i personally dislike the terrain (or doodads for that matter) hiding other parts of the map to the player since it can lead to cheese abussing the terrain, if you want to keep the position for the overlords you can put doodads (a small tower or something) surrounded by LoS blockers and pathing blockers, that way the ground units won't be able to see beyond the LoS blockers and therebefore won't be able to see if there's an overlord on top without air support I don't think i have to explain what problems could carry keeping something like this in the map, i suggest you to at least place plathing blockers below the towers in both naturals, and i suggest you to place more pathing blockers or small doodads that block the path in the area that's "in the north" of the trees behind the tower in the north natural. IE the place where i hided the drones in the first picture, so the players can actually see what is on their natural. This is what i mean when saying about the texturing in the cliffs i suggest you to try to spot these "places of blackness", so the theme of the map remains untouched by bugs. Your map is really likeable in the theme and in the way the map works, when i have more time i will play it more with my friends (this was more of a testing session), i really enjoy it (specially when i put my graphics higher ^^) I also suspect that some areas around the edges my be pathable when they should not. I have to study today, but I will try to get your suggested fixes in sometime tomorrow! Thanks so much for the feedback! You have no idea how helpful it is to have someone else join your map and look for bugs! Glad to have helped pal, as i say previously the map is really good (specially in the texturing choices [Dunno if that's the Zerus standard textures or other planet standard textures, but it looks really really good])
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I like the design of this map a lot. Also the fact that it doesn't have a free third would bring some interesting gameplay to it. I would consider getting rid of the Xel'Naga Towers completely, as they don't really do much in their current position besides control the vision for the very center lane (which is usually controlled by whoever has map control anyways). I see this map work really well with HotS units though. Makes me wish that lurkers were coming into the game instead of swarm hosts.
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I, like seemingly everyone else, like the design and aesthetics of this map very much. I do want to complain about the mineral placement though. I would suggest a more standard approach to mineral placement to get rid of the solid walls that the mineral line forms currently. The standard way can be found here:
Proper mineral placement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381401
The problems that arise with your current mineral placement is: 1. Drops will become much harder to deal with. Especially for zerg. 2. Cannon rushes (at mainly the natural and high ground, half base third) will become very efficient. (2 pylons to block off the cannon zone behind the mineral line, and then 1 or more cannons in this zone.) 3. Mining efficiency is always at 100% with this placement, not allowing pros or zealous people to gain an edge (small though it may be), by microing your workers to the nearest mineral patch.
If you uploaded your map somewhere I'd be able to give you map specific images to illustrate my complaints.
You may be wondering what kind of cannon rushes I'm talking about, so I will upload a picture from Daybreak (which honestly is quite a stupid cannon position in both mains):
+ Show Spoiler +
(P.S. All assumptions here are based on your overview picture, since I neither have HotS, nor an NA account. So take everything with a grain of salt, and try my assumptions in-game first)
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Get the metal panels a little bit more dusty
I just don't care about gameplay
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Sorry I don't check here often enough atm, I only saw this 2 days ago.
I like this map a lot! Very nice layout, not too simple, not too complicated. Bases are not just for free. Aesthetics are very clean. Very good job considering I assume you are quite new to SC2 mapmaking?!
2 things I dislike: - two towers in middle; I'm generally not a great lover of towers but two towers in such close proximity seems a bit overkill for this middle - in general your space management regarding the map border is pretty bad; the corners have a lot of wasted airspace, as well as at the 3 and 9 o'clock position; I think this stuff is fixable and should be fixed if you want to take this map to the highest level
Again gj and hope you will do some more stuff in the future
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Veloh has this map changed, or did you post it in WIP thread originally? Seems different than last time I checked on it.
Personally I'm okay with the towers, I think more maps should use towers that can see each other, it's actually an interesting feature on some maps. It would be fine without towers as well.
I have two things I would change:
- Remove the holes to the right and left of the middle. That should just be open ground imo, or that dot of obstruction should be smaller.
- There should be a second set of collapsible rocks on the other side of the ramp where they already are, allowing to completely close that entrance with two separate rocks. It would also block a little bit of space below the cliff at the middle half base so you can't shoot the whole mineral line.
Also as ragoo said the corner usage could be better, but eh.
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